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Wigan financial woes - up for sale again? p40
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If they hadn't had their ownership change a month ago, maybe they would have had more of a case
It would be interesting is another club was to go into administration now and claim Covid as a reason2 -
Not really as it may apply.killerandflash said:If they hadn't had their ownership change a month ago, maybe they would have had more of a case
It would be interesting is another club was to go into administration now and claim Covid as a reasonIt clearly was not an issue with the purchase of Wigan as the sale took place during lockdown and the situation would have been clear to all.Obviously if it happened to us it would be clearly due to COVID and any points deductions would be totally excessive and inappropriate.😉3 -
Prepare yourself for a tragedy mate, I just really can’t see them being relegated, as much as I believe that’s the correct punishment.Redrobo said:
I agree.cafcnick1992 said:Absolutely tragic if you're a Wigan fan. Could happen to any club outside the top 6.
But what will be an absolute tragedy is if Sheffield Wednesday don’t get relegated for cheating in so many ways over a long period and that this does not happen before the season ends.
If they are not relegated it makes cheating acceptable at the expense of those who tried hard but just couldn’t make it work.1 -
Must have history of participation in ethnic cleansingMendonca In Asdas said:Just wondered what exactly the EFL fit and proper test actually was.Flash your eyelids, and hand over a suitcase full of reddies?0 -
Heard that the decision on them is due this week.Redrobo said:
I agree.cafcnick1992 said:Absolutely tragic if you're a Wigan fan. Could happen to any club outside the top 6.
But what will be an absolute tragedy is if Sheffield Wednesday don’t get relegated for cheating in so many ways over a long period and that this does not happen before the season ends.
If they are not relegated it makes cheating acceptable at the expense of those who tried hard but just couldn’t make it work.
Not sure if it’s something they can appeal though.0 -
So far everyone's hearing is a bit off as last week it was going to be Friday......then at the weekend Sky said that it was going to be Monday and yesterday Owlstalk was saying is was going to be today.CafcSCP said:
Heard that the decision on them is due this week.Redrobo said:
I agree.cafcnick1992 said:Absolutely tragic if you're a Wigan fan. Could happen to any club outside the top 6.
But what will be an absolute tragedy is if Sheffield Wednesday don’t get relegated for cheating in so many ways over a long period and that this does not happen before the season ends.
If they are not relegated it makes cheating acceptable at the expense of those who tried hard but just couldn’t make it work.
Not sure if it’s something they can appeal though.
I'm still thinking the EFL are waiting to see how many points ahead of 3rd bottom SW are before announcing a 9 point penalty.1 -
If the players are only getting paid 20% of their salary and the administrator is actively looking at selling anyone, then i wonder if certain players there will start to do a Lyle Taylor.
If you're a decent Wigan player (let's say Kieffer Moore or Jamal Lowe) and you know clubs are interested and you're likely to be sold, are you going to put 100% effort in and possibly get injured and risk a move?0 -
Most good professionals will, Taylor is a coward and I hope it comes back to bite him hard.Chris_from_Sidcup said:If the players are only getting paid 20% of their salary and the administrator is actively looking at selling anyone, then i wonder if certain players there will start to do a Lyle Taylor.
If you're a decent Wigan player (let's say Kieffer Moore or Jamal Lowe) and you know clubs are interested and you're likely to be sold, are you going to put 100% effort in and possibly get injured and risk a move?8 -
Speaking for myself, as someone who went to the EFL as a CAST rep, I am under no illusions that it is an underfunded organisation, that is in no position to thoroughly interrogate the increasingly dodgy shit that owners get up to. It outsources most of the forensic accounting work. This situation arises because of the absurd split between the FAPL and the rest of football, whereby most of the money in football, and how it is regulated is controlled by the 20 owners of FAPL clubs, including the State of Abu Dhabi,one of Russia’s most notorious oligarchs, and an English pornbroker.Cafc43v3r said:I am really confused what people think the EFL are and what resources they have avaliable to them.
How much time and money do bookmakers spend a year on detecting "unusual" betting patterns, the stock markets on preventing insider and rogue trading, the g7 on fraud investigation and prevention, who ever it is that disqualify directors?
Take us as an example we have probably had ten people take the fit and proper test this season. There is no legal reason why any of them would have failed it. They all passed it. Are they all fit and proper?
Before anyone says Southall a spent conviction for a minor crime is not a reason. Neither is being "a bit dodgy".
And before anyone chirps up with "Romanian money laundering" he was not found guilty in court.
The EFL say if something was done that would be a crime if committed in the UK you would fail. Its a crime in Romania, he wasn't found guilty in court.
To blame the EFL for all footballs ills is a sign of ignorance.
You do not understand what Florica has done in Romania, the challenges facing the justice system in that country, or the EFL’s new clause, which is a copy and paste of an FAPL clause. That clause says that if a person did something that would be a crime in the UK,this would be a reason to fail the ODT, even if he wasnt convicted of a crime in his home country. There is no dispute about what Florica actually did in the Microsoft affair. Read it up, and then “chirp up” if you still dispute it.
Speaking of Florica though, my question now is , have he and Mihail really gone, and if so, how much money did they get out of our club? Such lowlife dont work out of the goodness of their black little hearts. A question for @castrust perhaps.0 -
If I was Sheffield W, I’d want a quick decision, so I know where I stand in the league and what’s required.golfaddick said:
So far everyone's hearing is a bit off as last week it was going to be Friday......then at the weekend Sky said that it was going to be Monday and yesterday Owlstalk was saying is was going to be today.CafcSCP said:
Heard that the decision on them is due this week.Redrobo said:
I agree.cafcnick1992 said:Absolutely tragic if you're a Wigan fan. Could happen to any club outside the top 6.
But what will be an absolute tragedy is if Sheffield Wednesday don’t get relegated for cheating in so many ways over a long period and that this does not happen before the season ends.
If they are not relegated it makes cheating acceptable at the expense of those who tried hard but just couldn’t make it work.
Not sure if it’s something they can appeal though.
I'm still thinking the EFL are waiting to see how many points ahead of 3rd bottom SW are before announcing a 9 point penalty.
Hopefully it is announced this week. That’s what the papers are saying.0 -
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I realise this is outdated information but I found the splits of revenue interesting.
What have Stoke Boro and Hull been doing with their income?
How can Leeds make more on commercial income than 7 clubs have as a total revenue?
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Doesn't look right to me. Broadcast revenue for Leeds has to be too low. Presumably parachute monies are included in Broadcast0
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Leeds have a huge fanbase and known on a global scale. Their commercial revenue is more than half of the premier league.
The broadcast figures seem strange though, Leeds made less than Millwall and only 1m more than Rotherham?0 -
Yes, looking deeper, it doesn't seem the most reliable data source.
https://www.ucfb.ac.uk/news/ucfb-news-hub/football-is-easy-life-is-complicated-201819-championship-finances-and-their-place-in-a-post-pandemic-world/
This seems better, but based on start of this season.
Shows how well Millwall are doing and how shocking, Boro, Huddersfield, Stoke and Hull's performances have been.
https://talksport.com/football/efl/579321/value-worth-net-championship-squad-when-how-much-2019-20-efl/
QPR might struggle as Fernandez's Air Asia looks like collapsing this week.1 -
Broadcast revenue will include parachute payments plus any extra monies from a cup run, hence Millwall getting more than Leeds that season.
Sky only pay a small amount per match to have the match on TV. With the amount of money Leeds make on match day revenue, more than or equal to the same as 6 other club’s whole income totals, they’ve been saying for years they actually lose money each time they’re on TV, as the money from Sky doesn’t cover what they would’ve made otherwise.
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Leeds's entertainment and conference facilities are outstanding, they are almost always fully booked and have events going on there most days.MrWalker said:I realise this is outdated information but I found the splits of revenue interesting.
What have Stoke Boro and Hull been doing with their income?
How can Leeds make more on commercial income than 7 clubs have as a total revenue?
There is probably only 1 comparable venue in West Yorkshire.1 -
Wigan have appointed a QC in the points appeal, they could get off on the wording. They haven't missed any payments to creditors ...0
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Good point about the cup games, Millwall had cup games v Everton and Brighton live on tv.Sage said:Broadcast revenue will include parachute payments plus any extra monies from a cup run, hence Millwall getting more than Leeds that season.
Sky only pay a small amount per match to have the match on TV. With the amount of money Leeds make on match day revenue, more than or equal to the same as 6 other club’s whole income totals, they’ve been saying for years they actually lose money each time they’re on TV, as the money from Sky doesn’t cover what they would’ve made otherwise.
Still don't understand some of the figures though. How do Ipswich only get 5m, but Rotherham and Wigan get 8m, none had a cup run and 3m difference is a lot.0 -
Chris_from_Sidcup said:Leeds have a huge fanbase and known on a global scale. Their commercial revenue is more than half of the premier league.
The broadcast figures seem strange though, Leeds made less than Millwall and only 1m more than Rotherham?You need to factor into the likes of West Brom and Stoke the parachute payments from the Premier League - these would be recorded as 'Broadcast' revenue.Edit: Just seen Kafka's comment - beat me to it!0 -
How to clear your debts without spending a penny or losing any points. It’s a shame for their supporters and the club itself but getting out of points deduction would be a further disgrace to football.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Good point about the cup games, Millwall had cup games v Everton and Brighton live on tv.Sage said:Broadcast revenue will include parachute payments plus any extra monies from a cup run, hence Millwall getting more than Leeds that season.
Sky only pay a small amount per match to have the match on TV. With the amount of money Leeds make on match day revenue, more than or equal to the same as 6 other club’s whole income totals, they’ve been saying for years they actually lose money each time they’re on TV, as the money from Sky doesn’t cover what they would’ve made otherwise.
Still don't understand some of the figures though. How do Ipswich only get 5m, but Rotherham and Wigan get 8m, none had a cup run and 3m difference is a lot.0 -
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I am not disputing what happened in the "Microsoft affair". We have spent hours going over it. My point, as it always has been is as he wasn't found guilty and convicted in court. I wouldn't say he was found innocent btw. The EFL would have to over rule an EU members justice system.PragueAddick said:
Speaking for myself, as someone who went to the EFL as a CAST rep, I am under no illusions that it is an underfunded organisation, that is in no position to thoroughly interrogate the increasingly dodgy shit that owners get up to. It outsources most of the forensic accounting work. This situation arises because of the absurd split between the FAPL and the rest of football, whereby most of the money in football, and how it is regulated is controlled by the 20 owners of FAPL clubs, including the State of Abu Dhabi,one of Russia’s most notorious oligarchs, and an English pornbroker.Cafc43v3r said:I am really confused what people think the EFL are and what resources they have avaliable to them.
How much time and money do bookmakers spend a year on detecting "unusual" betting patterns, the stock markets on preventing insider and rogue trading, the g7 on fraud investigation and prevention, who ever it is that disqualify directors?
Take us as an example we have probably had ten people take the fit and proper test this season. There is no legal reason why any of them would have failed it. They all passed it. Are they all fit and proper?
Before anyone says Southall a spent conviction for a minor crime is not a reason. Neither is being "a bit dodgy".
And before anyone chirps up with "Romanian money laundering" he was not found guilty in court.
The EFL say if something was done that would be a crime if committed in the UK you would fail. Its a crime in Romania, he wasn't found guilty in court.
To blame the EFL for all footballs ills is a sign of ignorance.
You do not understand what Florica has done in Romania, the challenges facing the justice system in that country, or the EFL’s new clause, which is a copy and paste of an FAPL clause. That clause says that if a person did something that would be a crime in the UK,this would be a reason to fail the ODT, even if he wasnt convicted of a crime in his home country. There is no dispute about what Florica actually did in the Microsoft affair. Read it up, and then “chirp up” if you still dispute it.
Speaking of Florica though, my question now is , have he and Mihail really gone, and if so, how much money did they get out of our club? Such lowlife dont work out of the goodness of their black little hearts. A question for @castrust perhaps.
Which I would imagine wouldn't get a sympathetic hearing in a British court.
He probably should be disqualified as a director of any British company but that's not something the EFL can do.
As for blaming the EPL for the under funding of the EFL? That's something the EFL members could solve themselves with a flick of a pen. But they would rather over pay the players, agents and in some cases themselves.0 -
It's up to the clubs to give the EFL the teeth it needs, the clubs don't want to because it'll like turkeys voting for Christmas, and easier for fans to attack faceless bureaucrats in Preston who have neither the tools or agency to do anything about it.4
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https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2020.pdf
Chart 17 on page 28 shows flows to agents.
Extraordinary.1 -
Who is paying for that then?J BLOCK said:Wigan have appointed a QC in the points appeal, they could get off on the wording. They haven't missed any payments to creditors ...
Unless the EFL categorically state there cannot be an appeal, i can see this dragging on beyond the end of the season, as there's only 2 weeks left.
It's why we need to ensure we finish at least 21st and not worry about Wigan.2 -
Suspect the administrators as it'll help them achieve a sale quicker and easierChris_from_Sidcup said:
Who is paying for that then?J BLOCK said:Wigan have appointed a QC in the points appeal, they could get off on the wording. They haven't missed any payments to creditors ...
Unless the EFL categorically state there cannot be an appeal, i can see this dragging on beyond the end of the season, as there's only 2 weeks left.
It's why we need to ensure we finish at least 21st and not worry about Wigan.0 -
So for every £1 a PL club gives to an EFL club, they give £1.49 to an agent.MrWalker said:https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/uk/Documents/sports-business-group/deloitte-uk-annual-review-of-football-finance-2020.pdf
Chart 17 on page 28 shows flows to agents.
Extraordinary.
For every £4.4m spent on Joe Gomez, they give £6.6m to an agent.
Every kid should dream of becoming an agent13 -
Cafc43v3r said:
Leeds's entertainment and conference facilities are outstanding, they are almost always fully booked and have events going on there most days.MrWalker said:I realise this is outdated information but I found the splits of revenue interesting.
What have Stoke Boro and Hull been doing with their income?
How can Leeds make more on commercial income than 7 clubs have as a total revenue?
There is probably only 1 comparable venue in West Yorkshire.
2 -
Where have you seen this?J BLOCK said:Wigan have appointed a QC in the points appeal, they could get off on the wording. They haven't missed any payments to creditors ...
I know the QC representing Wednesday, Nick De Marco, has been tweeting a bit about Wigan, but I can't see him representing them unless it's pro bono.0 -
QPR is an interesting case. Whereas their local supporter base would have been heartened by what Les Ferdinand had to say to the Kilburn Times pre-covid, I wonder how many of them will be worried about Ernst and young 's recent statement to the Malaysian stock exchange concerning their owners company's heading for collapse?MrWalker said:Yes, looking deeper, it doesn't seem the most reliable data source.
https://www.ucfb.ac.uk/news/ucfb-news-hub/football-is-easy-life-is-complicated-201819-championship-finances-and-their-place-in-a-post-pandemic-world/
This seems better, but based on start of this season.
Shows how well Millwall are doing and how shocking, Boro, Huddersfield, Stoke and Hull's performances have been.
https://talksport.com/football/efl/579321/value-worth-net-championship-squad-when-how-much-2019-20-efl/
QPR might struggle as Fernandez's Air Asia looks like collapsing this week.
One poster on their message board, Loft for Words, points out today that Air Asia is not their sole investor-
"I think it is Total Soccer Growth (Ruben) that is pumping the money in each month."- The OP on that thread says they need a £1m per month- familiar figure.
https://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/sport/football/queens-park-rangers/exclusive-les-ferdinand-insists-qpr-are-heading-in-right-direction-1-6547427
https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/airasia-auditor-airline-future-significant-doubt-200708071547039.html
https://loftforwords.fansnetwork.co.uk/forum/260510/air-asia-in-financial-trouble/#2
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