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The influence of the EU on Britain.
Comments
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Wasn’t looking to point score actually, was just genuinely interested given that it’s a biased view. EU total vs non EU total with Rotterdam taken into account would be good to see.PragueAddick said:
He does not say. However in the replies, someone has posted up this link to the Full Facts page on the issue, which attempts to answer you second point.cafcpolo said:
Where'd these figures come from Prague, any idea? Interested to see if they include the Rotterdam Effect.PragueAddick said:
Your serve...0 -
Very incomplete list but haven’t time tonight to complete it.PragueAddick said:
However:
Below is a list showcasing 15 of United Kingdom’s top trading partners in terms of export sales. That is, these are countries that imported the most UK shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total UK exports.
United States: US$60.4 billion (14.8% of total UK exports)
Germany: $43.6 billion (10.7%)
France: $25.9 billion (6.3%)
Netherlands: $25.6 billion (6.3%)
Ireland: $22.9 billion (5.6%)
Switzerland: $18.9 billion (4.6%)
China: $18 billion (4.4%)
Belgium: $15.8 billion (3.9%)
Italy: $13.1 billion (3.2%)
Spain: $12.7 billion (3.1%)
United Arab Emirates: $9 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $8.8 billion (2.2%)
Japan: $6.4 billion (1.6%)
Canada: $6.2 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.1 billion (1.5%)
Approaching three-quarters (71.7%) of UK exports in 2016 were delivered to the above 15 trade partners.
Among these top trade partners, UK exports to Switzerland rose in value at the fastest pace from 2009 to 2016 via a 137.8% gain.
In second place were Chinese importers, which grew their import purchases from the UK by 123%.
Hong Kong boosted its UK imports by 58.3%.
UAE’s imports from the UK increased by 42.6% over the 7-year period.
UK exports to Spain (down -11.1%) and France (down -10.7%) diminished at the fastest rate.
worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/
UK/EU trade decreasing year on year and non-EU trade increasing.1 -
Sure, so the argument is to diversify. But why does the UK have to leave the largest trade bloc on the planet where 44% of our exports go and a further 20% are governed by FTAs with the EU? Only four of the countries in that list are both outside the EU and not in an FTA. Since the referendum Canada and Japan have signed up.stonemuse said:
Very incomplete list but haven’t time tonight to complete it.PragueAddick said:
However:
Below is a list showcasing 15 of United Kingdom’s top trading partners in terms of export sales. That is, these are countries that imported the most UK shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total UK exports.
United States: US$60.4 billion (14.8% of total UK exports)
Germany: $43.6 billion (10.7%)
France: $25.9 billion (6.3%)
Netherlands: $25.6 billion (6.3%)
Ireland: $22.9 billion (5.6%)
Switzerland: $18.9 billion (4.6%)
China: $18 billion (4.4%)
Belgium: $15.8 billion (3.9%)
Italy: $13.1 billion (3.2%)
Spain: $12.7 billion (3.1%)
United Arab Emirates: $9 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $8.8 billion (2.2%)
Japan: $6.4 billion (1.6%)
Canada: $6.2 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.1 billion (1.5%)
Approaching three-quarters (71.7%) of UK exports in 2016 were delivered to the above 15 trade partners.
Among these top trade partners, UK exports to Switzerland rose in value at the fastest pace from 2009 to 2016 via a 137.8% gain.
In second place were Chinese importers, which grew their import purchases from the UK by 123%.
Hong Kong boosted its UK imports by 58.3%.
UAE’s imports from the UK increased by 42.6% over the 7-year period.
UK exports to Spain (down -11.1%) and France (down -10.7%) diminished at the fastest rate.
worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/
UK/EU trade decreasing year on year and non-EU trade increasing.
A deal with the US and China is fraught so probably best stay in the EEA?0 -
Leaving the exit / remain argument aside, my point was that the previous list was (deliberately?) unbalanced.seriously_red said:
Sure, so the argument is to diversify. But why does the UK have to leave the largest trade bloc on the planet where 44% of our exports go and a further 20% are governed by FTAs with the EU? Only four of the countries in that list are both outside the EU and not in an FTA. Since the referendum Canada and Japan have signed up.stonemuse said:
Very incomplete list but haven’t time tonight to complete it.PragueAddick said:
However:
Below is a list showcasing 15 of United Kingdom’s top trading partners in terms of export sales. That is, these are countries that imported the most UK shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total UK exports.
United States: US$60.4 billion (14.8% of total UK exports)
Germany: $43.6 billion (10.7%)
France: $25.9 billion (6.3%)
Netherlands: $25.6 billion (6.3%)
Ireland: $22.9 billion (5.6%)
Switzerland: $18.9 billion (4.6%)
China: $18 billion (4.4%)
Belgium: $15.8 billion (3.9%)
Italy: $13.1 billion (3.2%)
Spain: $12.7 billion (3.1%)
United Arab Emirates: $9 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $8.8 billion (2.2%)
Japan: $6.4 billion (1.6%)
Canada: $6.2 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.1 billion (1.5%)
Approaching three-quarters (71.7%) of UK exports in 2016 were delivered to the above 15 trade partners.
Among these top trade partners, UK exports to Switzerland rose in value at the fastest pace from 2009 to 2016 via a 137.8% gain.
In second place were Chinese importers, which grew their import purchases from the UK by 123%.
Hong Kong boosted its UK imports by 58.3%.
UAE’s imports from the UK increased by 42.6% over the 7-year period.
UK exports to Spain (down -11.1%) and France (down -10.7%) diminished at the fastest rate.
worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/
UK/EU trade decreasing year on year and non-EU trade increasing.
A deal with the US and China is fraught so probably best stay in the EEA?1 -
@stonemuse
I note that your figures tally with James Melville's in all the countries he refers.
As for this oft repeated line: "UK/EU trade decreasing year on year and non-EU trade increasing."
it makes me think of an analogy regarding Czech drinking habits
Volume of beer consumed is decreasing year on year, while volume of gin increased hugely in % terms.
But are the big brewers closing down their breweries and moving wholesale into gin? Of course not. Most Czechs haven't touched a drop of gin in their lives. I am exaggerating to make the point. UK -EU trade may be declining but it still is the biggest overall trading market by a huge margin. If the UK were a business, only a completely mad CEO would make a decision which would send that market in to a tailspin without cast iron evidence that he can replace it - and more - immediately in other markets.
Such cast iron evidence is completely lacking from the "plans" of Dr Fox.
Of course a proper business would ask itself why it is declining and whether in fact the decline can be reversed. It is surely reasonable to assume that the decline is largely down to the relatively poor economies of the EU countries since 2008. But that is now on the turn...1 -
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You know it's not better for your waistline if you're drinking so much morePragueAddick said:@stonemuse
Volume of beer consumed is decreasing year on year, while volume of gin increased hugely in % terms.
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That has, probably hit the nail on the head. The Joseph Rowntree foundation - a champion of the poor - has done much work on this. You can see a lot of it here. https://jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities The interesting thing that came out of it for me was that most areas with high EU migrant populations were pro-remain in the referendum. The ones that weren't were those where there had been a big influx of EU migrants in a short space of time. They cite Peterborough as an example. The other striking thing is that the two categories with the highest percentage of leave votes were those with no educational qualifications (75%) and those with routine manual jobs (71%). (I assume there must be some overlap there?)i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Leave It out ffs, the votes been cast and I think most normal pro Brexut voters are happy for people to come from anywhere in the world to work, in controlled numbers.Fiiish said:
Well apart from the dozen or so people on this website who view Poles as job-stealing criminals every time a Brexiteer speaks on LBC or Question Time the Poles get mentioned in a derogatory way.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Whinge about Polish? What on earth are you talking about?Fiiish said:
And maybe when people on here whinge about the Polish they should remember those who bravely defended Britain from the Luftwaffe and without whose considerable sacrifices our struggle would have been that much harder or our losses far greater.i_b_b_o_r_g said:
Which is why the yellow chumps in suits, residing in the EU's ivory towers, should give the UK a squeeze when it comes to any "divorce bill"Fiiish said:"The serried rows of white headstones in lovingly tended Commonwealth war cemeteries stand as silent testament to the price this country has paid to help restore peace and order in Europe."
But thats last years argument imo, for the moment we're talking about a deal between the bureaucratic EU and the UK. If / when Poland want out (doubtful I know), they too can bring up the sacrifices they made towards a safer contenental Europe when brokering a deal.
The same charity did an earlier report de-bunking the claim of migrant labour taking jobs from British workers and driving down wages. But I can't now find a link to that.
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This article is over a year old but provides some background on the Canada deal. It is just further proof of how wreckless the Brexiteers like Johnson and Davies are being with the future of the UK economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/15/brexit-canada-trade-deal-eu-model-next-steps1 -
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Really? Of course its a tweet, so he doesn't have much space to enlarge his point, but I took it as a list of the most talked about alternative markets. (India is a high profile exmaple which was much discussed until they made it clear their priority is an EU deal - bloody colonies, eh?) All your list does is break down the EU total, added in an EEA country - Switzerland - and Honkers and the UAE.stonemuse said:
Leaving the exit / remain argument aside, my point was that the previous list was (deliberately?) unbalanced.seriously_red said:
Sure, so the argument is to diversify. But why does the UK have to leave the largest trade bloc on the planet where 44% of our exports go and a further 20% are governed by FTAs with the EU? Only four of the countries in that list are both outside the EU and not in an FTA. Since the referendum Canada and Japan have signed up.stonemuse said:
Very incomplete list but haven’t time tonight to complete it.PragueAddick said:
However:
Below is a list showcasing 15 of United Kingdom’s top trading partners in terms of export sales. That is, these are countries that imported the most UK shipments by dollar value during 2016. Also shown is each import country’s percentage of total UK exports.
United States: US$60.4 billion (14.8% of total UK exports)
Germany: $43.6 billion (10.7%)
France: $25.9 billion (6.3%)
Netherlands: $25.6 billion (6.3%)
Ireland: $22.9 billion (5.6%)
Switzerland: $18.9 billion (4.6%)
China: $18 billion (4.4%)
Belgium: $15.8 billion (3.9%)
Italy: $13.1 billion (3.2%)
Spain: $12.7 billion (3.1%)
United Arab Emirates: $9 billion (2.2%)
Hong Kong: $8.8 billion (2.2%)
Japan: $6.4 billion (1.6%)
Canada: $6.2 billion (1.5%)
Sweden: $6.1 billion (1.5%)
Approaching three-quarters (71.7%) of UK exports in 2016 were delivered to the above 15 trade partners.
Among these top trade partners, UK exports to Switzerland rose in value at the fastest pace from 2009 to 2016 via a 137.8% gain.
In second place were Chinese importers, which grew their import purchases from the UK by 123%.
Hong Kong boosted its UK imports by 58.3%.
UAE’s imports from the UK increased by 42.6% over the 7-year period.
UK exports to Spain (down -11.1%) and France (down -10.7%) diminished at the fastest rate.
worldstopexports.com/united-kingdoms-top-import-partners/
UK/EU trade decreasing year on year and non-EU trade increasing.
A deal with the US and China is fraught so probably best stay in the EEA?
I think between the two posts we've reached a decent overview of the world trade market. I don't think the rhetoric of the Tiger in the Tank, bounding free towards the Sunlit Uplands, survives a sober business -like scrutiny of the global market.
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This is the other report on impact of migration on pay I mentioned yesterday. https://jrf.org.uk/report/impacts-international-migration-poverty-uk
Here's a couple of extracts: "The impacts of migration on wages and employment in the UK have generally been found to be relatively small." But "qualitative studies have identified employer preferences for migrant workers for certain types of jobs, particularly low-wage jobs. Interviews with and surveys of employers suggest that many migrant workers are more attractive employees. The reasons for this include migrants’ perceived ‘work ethic’, especially in low-wage jobs offering unattractive working conditions, irregular working hours or shift work, or requiring workers to live on site..."
So, it seems quite possible that employers in the construction industry, for example, are not employing East European workers to drive down wage costs. But instead because their productivity is better.3 -
Has anyone seen Fish?0
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Getting a bit worried about the @Fiiish0
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If there are I'm confident it won't be you posting them.cafcpolo said:
Where'd these figures come from Prague, any idea? Interested to see if they include the Rotterdam Effect.PragueAddick said:
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Didn't realise you were still here! Thought you finally got bored of stalking Chippy just to correct his grammar.ShootersHillGuru said:
If there are I'm confident it won't be you posting them.cafcpolo said:
Where'd these figures come from Prague, any idea? Interested to see if they include the Rotterdam Effect.PragueAddick said:
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Terrible isn't it? Bloody media, being so unpatriotic as to try and hold the Government to account.cafcpolo said:Googling this mornings news for another fun day of Brexit bashing...
We need to be more like Russia where the media's well understood role is to promote the interests of Mother Russia, which are indistinguishable from those of Tsar Putin. Any remaining journalists who don't get it are silenced by a knife in the throat from a concerned citizen.
That's the way to run a country. Close this thread down for starters, as our resident Brexit guardians keep urging. Bring back conscription and times tables, and replace Newsnight with the test card and the National Anthem.
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That did make me laugh when tory leader candidate Andrea Ledsom told the media they were the reason brexit was failing and we all need to get behind the government, we're holding them back.PragueAddick said:
Terrible isn't it? Bloody media, being so unpatriotic as to try and hold the Government to account.cafcpolo said:Googling this mornings news for another fun day of Brexit bashing...
We need to be more like Russia where the media's well understood role is to promote the interests of Mother Russia, which are indistinguishable from those of Tsar Putin. Any remaining journalists who don't get it are silenced by a knife in the throat from a concerned citizen.
That's the way to run a country. Close this thread down for starters, as our resident Brexit guardians keep urging. Bring back conscription and times tables, and replace Newsnight with the test card and the National Anthem.
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She is a special kind of stupid...Almost up there with calling Jane Austen our greatest living author.cabbles said:
That did make me laugh when tory leader candidate Andrea Ledsom told the media they were the reason brexit was failing and we all need to get behind the government, we're holding them back.PragueAddick said:
Terrible isn't it? Bloody media, being so unpatriotic as to try and hold the Government to account.cafcpolo said:Googling this mornings news for another fun day of Brexit bashing...
We need to be more like Russia where the media's well understood role is to promote the interests of Mother Russia, which are indistinguishable from those of Tsar Putin. Any remaining journalists who don't get it are silenced by a knife in the throat from a concerned citizen.
That's the way to run a country. Close this thread down for starters, as our resident Brexit guardians keep urging. Bring back conscription and times tables, and replace Newsnight with the test card and the National Anthem.1 -
agreed, everyone knows its Shakespeare...cafcpolo said:
She is a special kind of stupid...Almost up there with calling Jane Austen our greatest living author.cabbles said:
That did make me laugh when tory leader candidate Andrea Ledsom told the media they were the reason brexit was failing and we all need to get behind the government, we're holding them back.PragueAddick said:
Terrible isn't it? Bloody media, being so unpatriotic as to try and hold the Government to account.cafcpolo said:Googling this mornings news for another fun day of Brexit bashing...
We need to be more like Russia where the media's well understood role is to promote the interests of Mother Russia, which are indistinguishable from those of Tsar Putin. Any remaining journalists who don't get it are silenced by a knife in the throat from a concerned citizen.
That's the way to run a country. Close this thread down for starters, as our resident Brexit guardians keep urging. Bring back conscription and times tables, and replace Newsnight with the test card and the National Anthem.10 -
Is there any other kind? No one writes when they are dead do they?cafcpolo said:
She is a special kind of stupid...Almost up there with calling Jane Austen our greatest living author.cabbles said:
That did make me laugh when tory leader candidate Andrea Ledsom told the media they were the reason brexit was failing and we all need to get behind the government, we're holding them back.PragueAddick said:
Terrible isn't it? Bloody media, being so unpatriotic as to try and hold the Government to account.cafcpolo said:Googling this mornings news for another fun day of Brexit bashing...
We need to be more like Russia where the media's well understood role is to promote the interests of Mother Russia, which are indistinguishable from those of Tsar Putin. Any remaining journalists who don't get it are silenced by a knife in the throat from a concerned citizen.
That's the way to run a country. Close this thread down for starters, as our resident Brexit guardians keep urging. Bring back conscription and times tables, and replace Newsnight with the test card and the National Anthem. 0 -
He just got tired of waiting for someone to post Cameron's alleged WW3 quotei_b_b_o_r_g said:Has anyone seen Fish?
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Chris Heaton-Harris seems like a good bloke eh0
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What Cameron said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/brexit-could-trigger-world-war-7928607
For those unable to see the link:
David Cameron has pleaded for Britain to stay in the EU to help prevent the Continent being ripped apart by another conflict.
Mr Cameron today highlighted the UK’s role in bringing peace to Europe as he hit the referendum campaign trail - just hours before a rival speech by rival Tory MP Boris Johnson.
Introduced by Labour ex-Foreign Secretary David Miliband at the British Museum in London, he said: "Can we be so sure peace and stability on our continent are assured beyond any shadow of doubt? Is that a risk worth taking?
"I would never be so rash to make that assumption."0 -
Seems eminently sensible to me1
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Yep, seems people accusing Cameron of talking about WW3 are confusing the Mirror headline with what Cameron actually saidLeuth said:Seems eminently sensible to me
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Indeed and the Telegraph headline reporting a speech which Cameron had not even made.randy andy said:
Yep, seems people accusing Cameron of talking about WW3 are confusing the Mirror headline with what Cameron actually saidLeuth said:Seems eminently sensible to me
And even there, the phrase World War 3 remains conspicuous by its absence.
Some people seem to have forgotten that "peace and stability on our continent" was conspicuous by its absence at the time Sasa Ilic kept goal for us. Nowadays the legend is able to build himself a new life in Montenegro, which he would not have been able to do then. However next door in Macedonia, the Russian are up to their tricks. Keeping these countries on a pro EU path is the best way to stop them. It seems to be working in Serbia, and even 5 years ago I would have never expected to write that.
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Massive coincidence that he got tired of that at the very same time as wrongly accusing people of "talking shit" and being xenophobic.PragueAddick said:
He just got tired of waiting for someone to post Cameron's alleged WW3 quotei_b_b_o_r_g said:Has anyone seen Fish?
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