I'm guessing it was a paper product of some kind. I'm sure I heard Muttley was involved with print (could be completely wrong there) and a brief google showed prices of some paper and card stocks have soared over the last year. He may have overstated his case a little, whilst some prices have indeed gone up by 100% or more, it's difficult to attribute that all to Brexit, though it would appear that prices have gone up by more than just the devaluation of the pound when comparing UK prices to international prices.
One poster was so embarrassed at getting caught in his lie he's stopped posting.
That or learning to fly a Boeing down the local library didn't play out too well.
That's out of order imo. He objected to the implication that he was making up what he saw as a direct impact of Brexit on his own business. He wasnt making some vague claim or stating a more general point on the wider economy that could be subject to challenge. He just said that a particular cost component of his own business had increased in price.
I don't think he expected to be called out as a liar and to have to provide more detail on what he had in front of him and what was effecting his business.
I know he had the documents proving his point and was going to upload them to shut up those accussing him of lying, like yourself, but came to the conclusion that he shouldn't really have to do this on CL and as a result has decided not to post for now. I hope that he takes a break and comes back.
Brexiteers seem very keen on demanding evidence when it suits but less keen on taking note of anything that doesn't support their view. Imo of course.
Which would all be fine, apart from the fact he's demanded evidence from others in the past.
If it was a brexit voter doing the same, I'm not convinced you'd be as happy just to take them at face value.
The problem was the poster demanding this evidence was a Brexit troll who regularly pops up on this forum under different names (this time AstoriaAddick) before getting banned. And the evidence being demanded was private/personal and relating to his business which he had every right to choose not to reveal. Yet another example of false equivalency.
Thats not true - it was me that raised it originally and all I asked for was the name of the commodity as it could impact on my business.
I remember you and AFKA politely asked for clarification. However, I thought AstoriaAddick asked it first. I have looked back through this thread but can't find the series of posts we are talking about. But I do remember AstoriaAddick, and one or two others, not you or AFKA, persisted in a snidey and aggressive manner even after he clearly stated he wasn't willing to reveal personal work/business matters on here.
This is a trivial question. So, naturally, I've carried out some in-depth research.
Deutsche Markenbutter (German Best Butter) was €2,915 a tonne in June 2016. Last month it was €6,906. That of course has nothing to do with Brexit as such. But the commodity price has increased 237%. Then factor in the fall in the value of sterling from €1.30 on 23rd June 2016 to €1.12 now.
Expressed in GBP, German butter has increased in price as a commodity by 275%.
So, it's an entirely plausible claim for this market and I'd be surprised if there were not others.
I know you live abroad, but the idea that most mass media-tv, radio and press, were pro Brexit in the run-up to the referendum is plain absurd.
I won't labour the point but my consumption of British media is entirely unaffected by my location. And I consume a lot of it.
The idea that the Sun, the Star the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph, the Spectator, various shock jocks on LBC and Talk Radio were not pro Brexit is equally absurd. And that is before we begin to consider the poisonous Russian funded dross that infects people's Facebook feeds, which by its nature isn't even seen by a lot of people.
I've given a lot of thought to the roots of populism. Of course we all should. Why don't you start a thread on it? And spending time on the Continent means that I've come to realise something you may not have done. The socio-demographic make up of the populist vote is very similar across many different countries. But interestingly, the successful trigger points populist agenda in each country are quite different and, of course led by national issues. If you think that all the populists across Europe are all banging on about the EU to the extent that our populists are, you are very much mistaken. Perhaps you should try reading the English version of Spiegel if you want to understand the AfD vote, rather than relying on the Telegraph. For example.
I don't seek to insult people, as individuals. I can't easily tell on here much about someone's background or the extent or source of their "disenchantment" unless they write about it. I might however be so annoyed by the views some people express that I respond by calling them drivel. Whether that is some of your Brexit related views of the world, or whether it is some idiot claiming that we should be signing better strikers than Josh Magennis. I don't see why on CL we should respond more cautiously to someone's views on politics than to their views about football. If anything it should be the other way round, surely?
I have no problem with you going in hard on political issues, far from it. My point is that simply condemning populism is a waste of time and can be counterproductive, especially if it comes from within the ranks of those who identify with the elites' view of the world.
We have to start from the basic facts that our doninant political parties and ruling ideas feel alien to huge numbers of people. There is a cultural divide across the western world between on the one hand those who believe in globalisation, immigration, government by technocrats and modern liberalism and on the other those who feel threatened by these things. There is a mistaken belief that this is a generational thing and that it will pass. The French election showed huge support for Le Pen amongst young working class kids, for example.
If we were not so obsessed with Brexit we would see a rise in parties across Europe which express populist themes ( not all anti-EU by the way), most recently in Germany and Austria. There is a lot more to come.
I know you live abroad, but the idea that most mass media-tv, radio and press, were pro Brexit in the run-up to the referendum is plain absurd.
I won't labour the point but my consumption of British media is entirely unaffected by my location. And I consume a lot of it.
The idea that the Sun, the Star the Mail, the Express, the Telegraph, the Spectator, various shock jocks on LBC and Talk Radio were not pro Brexit is equally absurd. And that is before we begin to consider the poisonous Russian funded dross that infects people's Facebook feeds, which by its nature isn't even seen by a lot of people.
I've given a lot of thought to the roots of populism. Of course we all should. Why don't you start a thread on it? And spending time on the Continent means that I've come to realise something you may not have done. The socio-demographic make up of the populist vote is very similar across many different countries. But interestingly, the successful trigger points populist agenda in each country are quite different and, of course led by national issues. If you think that all the populists across Europe are all banging on about the EU to the extent that our populists are, you are very much mistaken. Perhaps you should try reading the English version of Spiegel if you want to understand the AfD vote, rather than relying on the Telegraph. For example.
I don't seek to insult people, as individuals. I can't easily tell on here much about someone's background or the extent or source of their "disenchantment" unless they write about it. I might however be so annoyed by the views some people express that I respond by calling them drivel. Whether that is some of your Brexit related views of the world, or whether it is some idiot claiming that we should be signing better strikers than Josh Magennis. I don't see why on CL we should respond more cautiously to someone's views on politics than to their views about football. If anything it should be the other way round, surely?
I have no problem with you going in hard on political issues, far from it. My point is that simply condemning populism is a waste of time and can be counterproductive, especially if it comes from within the ranks of those who identify with the elites' view of the world.
We have to start from the basic facts that our doninant political parties and ruling ideas feel alien to huge numbers of people. There is a cultural divide across the western world between on the one hand those who believe in globalisation, immigration, government by technocrats and modern liberalism and on the other those who feel threatened by these things. There is a mistaken belief that this is a generational thing and that it will pass. The French election showed huge support for Le Pen amongst young working class kids, for example.
If we were not so obsessed with Brexit we would see a rise in parties across Europe which express populist themes ( not all anti-EU by the way), most recently in Germany and Austria. There is a lot more to come.
Good post... Seems some pe0ple are "somewhere" others are "anywheres". It's hard to argue that either ingrained worldview is inherently wrong or better than the other. They are just different. Decent article on it here
Like I said before, my mate has found that the stuff he imports from Europe has halved in price and that has been attributed directly to Brexit, but I'm not at liberty to tell you what the stuff is
Funny you should say that mate, the butter coolers were completely empty the other day
China have discovered butter.
British dairy farmers are being offered millions to relocate to the new vision of the future under Xi Jinping as China become the world's foremost authority in butter production
Funny you should say that mate, the butter coolers were completely empty the other day
China have discovered butter.
British dairy farmers are being offered millions to relocate to the new vision of the future under Xi Jinping as China become the world's foremost authority in butter production
This is something that has been developing for some time. My Brother lives in the West of Ireland and Chinese investigators have been visiting and learning from Irish dairy expertise for a number of years.
Funny you should say that mate, the butter coolers were completely empty the other day
China have discovered butter.
British dairy farmers are being offered millions to relocate to the new vision of the future under Xi Jinping as China become the world's foremost authority in butter production
This is something that has been developing for some time. My Brother lives in the West of Ireland and Chinese investigators have been visiting and learning from Irish dairy expertise for a number of years.
One poster was so embarrassed at getting caught in his lie he's stopped posting.
That or learning to fly a Boeing down the local library didn't play out too well.
That's out of order imo. He objected to the implication that he was making up what he saw as a direct impact of Brexit on his own business. He wasnt making some vague claim or stating a more general point on the wider economy that could be subject to challenge. He just said that a particular cost component of his own business had increased in price.
I don't think he expected to be called out as a liar and to have to provide more detail on what he had in front of him and what was effecting his business.
I know he had the documents proving his point and was going to upload them to shut up those accussing him of lying, like yourself, but came to the conclusion that he shouldn't really have to do this on CL and as a result has decided not to post for now. I hope that he takes a break and comes back.
Brexiteers seem very keen on demanding evidence when it suits but less keen on taking note of anything that doesn't support their view. Imo of course.
Funny you should say that mate, the butter coolers were completely empty the other day
China have discovered butter.
British dairy farmers are being offered millions to relocate to the new vision of the future under Xi Jinping as China become the world's foremost authority in butter production
This is something that has been developing for some time. My Brother lives in the West of Ireland and Chinese investigators have been visiting and learning from Irish dairy expertise for a number of years.
One poster was so embarrassed at getting caught in his lie he's stopped posting.
That or learning to fly a Boeing down the local library didn't play out too well.
That's out of order imo. He objected to the implication that he was making up what he saw as a direct impact of Brexit on his own business. He wasnt making some vague claim or stating a more general point on the wider economy that could be subject to challenge. He just said that a particular cost component of his own business had increased in price.
I don't think he expected to be called out as a liar and to have to provide more detail on what he had in front of him and what was effecting his business.
I know he had the documents proving his point and was going to upload them to shut up those accussing him of lying, like yourself, but came to the conclusion that he shouldn't really have to do this on CL and as a result has decided not to post for now. I hope that he takes a break and comes back.
Brexiteers seem very keen on demanding evidence when it suits but less keen on taking note of anything that doesn't support their view. Imo of course.
Which would all be fine, apart from the fact he's demanded evidence from others in the past.
If it was a brexit voter doing the same, I'm not convinced you'd be as happy just to take them at face value.
I'm not here to speak for anyone other than myself but I can't recall the poster concerned requesting details of anyone else's business expenses? It's entirely reasonable to ask a poster to substantiate a more general point with data and other sources. But that particular issue went too far imo and put the poster into a position where he clearly felt his integrity was being directly called into question.
As an example, I called out Golfie on a statement had made recently about not being able to put in place controls on immigration from the Commonwealth. Neither he nor any other leavers chose to respond, I suspect because the point made was entirely false, we can put whatever controls we wish on non-EU immigration. Would it now be appropriate to put him in a position where he feels he's being treated unfairly and feels no option other than to withdraw from CL as happened with the other example?
@Southbank has frequently used that phrase, and presumably had them in mind when he wrote (my emphasis in bold)
"And unfortunately in the process it comes across as despising ordinary people who voted for Brexit and painting them as stupid and gullible. Is the idea, do you think, that if you insult people for long enought they will change their minds?"
Right then. Here is a serious test. For those of you who think Remainers are "The out of touch metropolitan elite", let's define what you actually mean by the phrase, in terms of the debate on Charlton Life and its most regular posters. Based on your perceptions, please explain why you think a certain Lifer is OOTME and another not. To help start it, i'll just name some regular posters to the Brexit threads
And anyone else I've missed who regularly reflects the spectrum of opinion
"Metropolitan" is interesting because if we are all Charlton supporters it surely means we were all born and raised in a great metropolis. "Out of touch" will be more difficult because if you disagree with a Remain poster, you may automatically think he or she is "out of touch". Is there a Remain poster whom you think is not out of touch, whereas someone, say me, is? What's the difference between them?
Which then brings us to "elite". This will be the interesting one. Who on CL is in the elite, and who is not? Most importantly why do you put them there? Define it. What are the criteria? Perceived wealth? Education? Command of the language? Perceived reasons why the Lifer has good reason to be "disenchanted" while another one does not?
Let's try to keep it civil (if you want to let rip at OOTME types, and you think I symbolise them, by all means let rip at me, but tell me why you put me in that group).
I think it's about time that jibe was brought out in the open and thoroughly examined (and not just on CL). Who is ready to give it a go?
So you want me to define a phrase I have never used?
I'm sure mutts will be back. It's good to take a breather when things get fraught on here.
I agree entirely and hope for the same. I don't want any sensible posters to feel they are unable to post beyond the obvious trolls, one of whom had got himself involved in that particular part of the thread of course.
One poster was so embarrassed at getting caught in his lie he's stopped posting.
That or learning to fly a Boeing down the local library didn't play out too well.
That's out of order imo. He objected to the implication that he was making up what he saw as a direct impact of Brexit on his own business. He wasnt making some vague claim or stating a more general point on the wider economy that could be subject to challenge. He just said that a particular cost component of his own business had increased in price.
I don't think he expected to be called out as a liar and to have to provide more detail on what he had in front of him and what was effecting his business.
I know he had the documents proving his point and was going to upload them to shut up those accussing him of lying, like yourself, but came to the conclusion that he shouldn't really have to do this on CL and as a result has decided not to post for now. I hope that he takes a break and comes back.
Brexiteers seem very keen on demanding evidence when it suits but less keen on taking note of anything that doesn't support their view. Imo of course.
Which would all be fine, apart from the fact he's demanded evidence from others in the past.
If it was a brexit voter doing the same, I'm not convinced you'd be as happy just to take them at face value.
I'm not here to speak for anyone other than myself but I can't recall the poster concerned requesting details of anyone else's business expenses? It's entirely reasonable to ask a poster to substantiate a more general point with data and other sources. But that particular issue went too far imo and put the poster into a position where he clearly felt his integrity was being directly called into question.
As an example, I called out Golfie on a statement had made recently about not being able to put in place controls on immigration from the Commonwealth. Neither he nor any other leavers chose to respond, I suspect because the point made was entirely false, we can put whatever controls we wish on non-EU immigration. Would it now be appropriate to put him in a position where he feels he's being treated unfairly and feels no option other than to withdraw from CL as happened with the other example?
So Golfie made a comment you believed to be false and you asked for clarification, as a result of his non reply you believe his statement to be false.
That's perfectly understandable, but, IMO, no different from the situation we are discussing.
No one was asking for details of suppliers, or what I believed to be overly personal questions, just what the item was, it was hardly going to lead to the downfall of his business.
@Southbank has frequently used that phrase, and presumably had them in mind when he wrote (my emphasis in bold)
"And unfortunately in the process it comes across as despising ordinary people who voted for Brexit and painting them as stupid and gullible. Is the idea, do you think, that if you insult people for long enought they will change their minds?"
Right then. Here is a serious test. For those of you who think Remainers are "The out of touch metropolitan elite", let's define what you actually mean by the phrase, in terms of the debate on Charlton Life and its most regular posters. Based on your perceptions, please explain why you think a certain Lifer is OOTME and another not. To help start it, i'll just name some regular posters to the Brexit threads
And anyone else I've missed who regularly reflects the spectrum of opinion
"Metropolitan" is interesting because if we are all Charlton supporters it surely means we were all born and raised in a great metropolis. "Out of touch" will be more difficult because if you disagree with a Remain poster, you may automatically think he or she is "out of touch". Is there a Remain poster whom you think is not out of touch, whereas someone, say me, is? What's the difference between them?
Which then brings us to "elite". This will be the interesting one. Who on CL is in the elite, and who is not? Most importantly why do you put them there? Define it. What are the criteria? Perceived wealth? Education? Command of the language? Perceived reasons why the Lifer has good reason to be "disenchanted" while another one does not?
Let's try to keep it civil (if you want to let rip at OOTME types, and you think I symbolise them, by all means let rip at me, but tell me why you put me in that group).
I think it's about time that jibe was brought out in the open and thoroughly examined (and not just on CL). Who is ready to give it a go?
So you want me to define a phrase I have never used?
One poster was so embarrassed at getting caught in his lie he's stopped posting.
That or learning to fly a Boeing down the local library didn't play out too well.
That's out of order imo. He objected to the implication that he was making up what he saw as a direct impact of Brexit on his own business. He wasnt making some vague claim or stating a more general point on the wider economy that could be subject to challenge. He just said that a particular cost component of his own business had increased in price.
I don't think he expected to be called out as a liar and to have to provide more detail on what he had in front of him and what was effecting his business.
I know he had the documents proving his point and was going to upload them to shut up those accussing him of lying, like yourself, but came to the conclusion that he shouldn't really have to do this on CL and as a result has decided not to post for now. I hope that he takes a break and comes back.
Brexiteers seem very keen on demanding evidence when it suits but less keen on taking note of anything that doesn't support their view. Imo of course.
Which would all be fine, apart from the fact he's demanded evidence from others in the past.
If it was a brexit voter doing the same, I'm not convinced you'd be as happy just to take them at face value.
I'm not here to speak for anyone other than myself but I can't recall the poster concerned requesting details of anyone else's business expenses? It's entirely reasonable to ask a poster to substantiate a more general point with data and other sources. But that particular issue went too far imo and put the poster into a position where he clearly felt his integrity was being directly called into question.
As an example, I called out Golfie on a statement had made recently about not being able to put in place controls on immigration from the Commonwealth. Neither he nor any other leavers chose to respond, I suspect because the point made was entirely false, we can put whatever controls we wish on non-EU immigration. Would it now be appropriate to put him in a position where he feels he's being treated unfairly and feels no option other than to withdraw from CL as happened with the other example?
So Golfie made a comment you believed to be false and you asked for clarification, as a result of his non reply you believe his statement to be false.
That's perfectly understandable, but, IMO, no different from the situation we are discussing.
No one was asking for details of suppliers, or what I believed to be overly personal questions, just what the item was, it was hardly going to lead to the downfall of his business.
Um...the two are not at all equitable. I called out a poster on a statement around generic immigration rules and policy that I knew to be false from the start. Did I accuse the other poster of lying about this? No, because I do not think it was a deliberate act to mislead anyone, I just think Golfie had has facts wrong. Again ;-)
You and others did not know for certain that Mutts was lying. You couldn't possibly and I don't believe he was. Yet he was pushed for justification and further clarification to the point where he made it clear he felt his personal honesty was being questioned and he was being ridiculed. Still it continued. You still are in fact. As a result he's decided not to continue posting.
I'm not saying I would have reacted the same but if you can't see the difference I don't really know what else I can say.
I'm sure mutts will be back. It's good to take a breather when things get fraught on here.
Done so myself many times when I get too uptight about certain threats/posts ... a bit of breathing space before you go back to the fray does a power of good.
That is until Brexit arrives and the world changes.
The Government seems to be in bother over whether MPs get to vote on the final deal to leave the EU before or after we actually leave. Forget the contradictatory tone of this for a moment. Davis indicates that the UK may indeed leave prior to any deal being finalised, meaning the choice would be between a deal Brexit or a no deal Brexit.
Mrs May has intervened and said that a vote would need to happen before we left, indicating it could be decided to have a Brexit deal, no deal or no Brexit. The idea that we would simply fall out of the EU without a final democratic instrument would be profoundly undemocratic.
But Parliament has already abdicated responsibility for our EU membership. And the referendum result was achieved on the promise of, amongst other things, £350m a week going to the NHS, remaining within the EEA and Customs Union, and keeping the Irish border open. The only obvious solution is to have a referendum on the final deal. The one thing everyone on here seems to agree on is that the British public was grossly ill-informed during the original referendum. Surely it is more democratic to allow a much better informed public to have the final say on the deal when it is clear what Brexit actually means, and not what either the Remain or Leave campaigns said would happen.
@Southbank has frequently used that phrase, and presumably had them in mind when he wrote (my emphasis in bold)
"And unfortunately in the process it comes across as despising ordinary people who voted for Brexit and painting them as stupid and gullible. Is the idea, do you think, that if you insult people for long enought they will change their minds?"
Right then. Here is a serious test. For those of you who think Remainers are "The out of touch metropolitan elite", let's define what you actually mean by the phrase, in terms of the debate on Charlton Life and its most regular posters. Based on your perceptions, please explain why you think a certain Lifer is OOTME and another not. To help start it, i'll just name some regular posters to the Brexit threads
And anyone else I've missed who regularly reflects the spectrum of opinion
"Metropolitan" is interesting because if we are all Charlton supporters it surely means we were all born and raised in a great metropolis. "Out of touch" will be more difficult because if you disagree with a Remain poster, you may automatically think he or she is "out of touch". Is there a Remain poster whom you think is not out of touch, whereas someone, say me, is? What's the difference between them?
Which then brings us to "elite". This will be the interesting one. Who on CL is in the elite, and who is not? Most importantly why do you put them there? Define it. What are the criteria? Perceived wealth? Education? Command of the language? Perceived reasons why the Lifer has good reason to be "disenchanted" while another one does not?
Let's try to keep it civil (if you want to let rip at OOTME types, and you think I symbolise them, by all means let rip at me, but tell me why you put me in that group).
I think it's about time that jibe was brought out in the open and thoroughly examined (and not just on CL). Who is ready to give it a go?
So you want me to define a phrase I have never used?
Erm, not sure it was me, but I do use the word 'elite' because I have met them and they really exist in all walks of life.
Respect to you for being the first one on here to own up to it.
The implication of the way you have written that is that you do not consider Remainers on here to be part of this "elite". Is that fair to conclude?
I've seen several example of Brexiteers on here coming out with it, and implying that 'we' belong to it. If they are not prepared to come forward and at least explain their definition of 'elite' and therefore why they are 'out of touch", then I trust that such a label will never be thrown again, explicitly or implied, on Remainers on this thread.
The point behind this is that if you go on any discussion page where the Brexit argument is raging, I guarantee you that those putting a Remain POV forward will have it thrown at them. But of course it is all anonymous, behind keyboards, and very few of them are regularly meeting each other even in cyberspace. I thought it might be interesting to pin this issue down among people who "know" each other better, some even personally. I know who I am thinking of too, but they are keeping quiet on this, so far...
The one thing everyone on here seems to agree on is that the British public was grossly ill-informed during the original referendum.
Yup.
As I have said, I am convinced there is another step to come.
Incidentally, would it not be impossible for MPs to vote until they knew the full picture, i.e. including details of a future trade deal?
Yes but I think the disagreement is on whether the UK will fall out of the EU automatically without a vote and the deal with the EU is a separate issue or whether our exit from the EU is contingent on MPs agreeing with the final deal or, if they don't like it, then they vote to ratify a no deal Brexit. Unfortunately the language coming from Downing Street is deliberately vague as I imagine they don't want to give the impression that there is any chance whatsoever that MPs could block Brexit at the final hurdle. Bear in mind that May is walking an incredibly fine tightrope and as soon as the Brexit wing of her MPs get a whiff of any possible indication that she may allow Brexit to be blocked, she will be facing a rebellion.
Comments
Deutsche Markenbutter (German Best Butter) was €2,915 a tonne in June 2016. Last month it was €6,906. That of course has nothing to do with Brexit as such. But the commodity price has increased 237%. Then factor in the fall in the value of sterling from €1.30 on 23rd June 2016 to €1.12 now.
Expressed in GBP, German butter has increased in price as a commodity by 275%.
So, it's an entirely plausible claim for this market and I'd be surprised if there were not others.
We have to start from the basic facts that our doninant political parties and ruling ideas feel alien to huge numbers of people. There is a cultural divide across the western world between on the one hand those who believe in globalisation, immigration, government by technocrats and modern liberalism and on the other those who feel threatened by these things. There is a mistaken belief that this is a generational thing and that it will pass. The French election showed huge support for Le Pen amongst young working class kids, for example.
If we were not so obsessed with Brexit we would see a rise in parties across Europe which express populist themes ( not all anti-EU by the way), most recently in Germany and Austria. There is a lot more to come.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/03/anywheres-vs-somewheres-split-made-brexit-inevitable
I'd rather try to understand the other side rather than sling insults around, tempting as it is.
The more I think about it, the more I blame Cameron for letting this debacle unfold purely for his own political reasons
My Brother lives in the West of Ireland and Chinese investigators have been visiting and learning from Irish dairy expertise for a number of years.
As an example, I called out Golfie on a statement had made recently about not being able to put in place controls on immigration from the Commonwealth. Neither he nor any other leavers chose to respond, I suspect because the point made was entirely false, we can put whatever controls we wish on non-EU immigration. Would it now be appropriate to put him in a position where he feels he's being treated unfairly and feels no option other than to withdraw from CL as happened with the other example?
That's perfectly understandable, but, IMO, no different from the situation we are discussing.
No one was asking for details of suppliers, or what I believed to be overly personal questions, just what the item was, it was hardly going to lead to the downfall of his business.
You and others did not know for certain that Mutts was lying. You couldn't possibly and I don't believe he was. Yet he was pushed for justification and further clarification to the point where he made it clear he felt his personal honesty was being questioned and he was being ridiculed. Still it continued. You still are in fact. As a result he's decided not to continue posting.
I'm not saying I would have reacted the same but if you can't see the difference I don't really know what else I can say.
That is until Brexit arrives and the world changes.
The Government seems to be in bother over whether MPs get to vote on the final deal to leave the EU before or after we actually leave. Forget the contradictatory tone of this for a moment. Davis indicates that the UK may indeed leave prior to any deal being finalised, meaning the choice would be between a deal Brexit or a no deal Brexit.
Mrs May has intervened and said that a vote would need to happen before we left, indicating it could be decided to have a Brexit deal, no deal or no Brexit. The idea that we would simply fall out of the EU without a final democratic instrument would be profoundly undemocratic.
But Parliament has already abdicated responsibility for our EU membership. And the referendum result was achieved on the promise of, amongst other things, £350m a week going to the NHS, remaining within the EEA and Customs Union, and keeping the Irish border open. The only obvious solution is to have a referendum on the final deal. The one thing everyone on here seems to agree on is that the British public was grossly ill-informed during the original referendum. Surely it is more democratic to allow a much better informed public to have the final say on the deal when it is clear what Brexit actually means, and not what either the Remain or Leave campaigns said would happen.
As I have said, I am convinced there is another step to come.
Incidentally, would it not be impossible for MPs to vote until they knew the full picture, i.e. including details of a future trade deal?
The implication of the way you have written that is that you do not consider Remainers on here to be part of this "elite". Is that fair to conclude?
I've seen several example of Brexiteers on here coming out with it, and implying that 'we' belong to it. If they are not prepared to come forward and at least explain their definition of 'elite' and therefore why they are 'out of touch", then I trust that such a label will never be thrown again, explicitly or implied, on Remainers on this thread.
The point behind this is that if you go on any discussion page where the Brexit argument is raging, I guarantee you that those putting a Remain POV forward will have it thrown at them. But of course it is all anonymous, behind keyboards, and very few of them are regularly meeting each other even in cyberspace. I thought it might be interesting to pin this issue down among people who "know" each other better, some even personally. I know who I am thinking of too, but they are keeping quiet on this, so far...