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Tuchel’s first England squad
Comments
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What a waste of a world cup letting Tuchel take charge.8
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I don’t know guys, maybe football management and particularly this England job is a lot more complex and difficult than people think?
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You aren’t actually being serious are you?paulsturgess said:We had a great assistant for a number of years, specifically appointed to get opportunity and experience under Southgate to be ready for his own opportunity… and then we chose a German successor.APPOINT POWELL0 -
Tuchel's contract is only until the end of the world cup, so there's probably a decent chance Carsley will be back.Rock Spectacle said:Walker is watching his fitness as he will be opening numerous cards and presents on Sunday, hard work. Wonder if there's a price on Carsley being in charge in a year's time0 -
We overthink the national team job in this country. It doesn’t always have to be a big name. It’s a shame Carsley went a bit odd and wasted his audition.6
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We lost 4-0 at home to Hungary under Southgate, and i think you're forgetting the June friendly last year when we lost 1-0 at home to Iceland but then of course went on to reach the final of the Euro's. Obviously the last 2 performances have been abysmal but i still maintain you can't read too much into these games (the Iceland game last year is proof of that).cafctom said:Two dreadful performances. Rarely under Southgate would we get shown up like that by weaker opposition. And even in the June games we would perform as expected.The last time we had these sorts of games in June 2023 we put 11 goals past Malta and Macedonia collectively, and the players looked motivated.
That connection between the players doesn’t seem like it’s anywhere near what it used to be.Only highlight was being able to visit the City Ground for the first time in about 10 years. Beautiful stadium.
But whilst i can understand why the players are half arsed about these games, i simply cannot understand the team selection this week. Curtis Jones at right back and picking Henderson and Walker who will both be 36 at the World cup is just pointless. Walker was finished at Man City a year ago and then looked even worse at Milan, so why on earth is he even in the squad when right back is probably one of our strongest positions?
Giving Toney 2 minutes at the end is pretty insulting as well, the guy might as well have gone on holiday instead. Tuchel could've at least brought him on for Kane half an hour earlier, but no he brought on Rogers and Jones who both played 80 minutes v Andorra.1 -
You should've seen the Belgium v Wales game on Monday night - gave a penalty against the Welsh for the ball hitting the defender's elbow because he was putting his hands behind his back, VAR check on each goal and penalty decision took AGES, to the extent that the Welsh pulled it back to 3-1 in the 7th minute of added time in the first half. However, the ultimate was when having been pegged back to 3-3 in the second half, the Belgians thought they'd made it 4-3, only for a 4 or 5 minute VAR check to conclude that the ball had actually gone out near the halfway line in the build up (right in front of Craig Bellamy as well, who was giving Nathan Jones a run for his money in going absolutely apeshit at that point, and got booked for his trouble too). That meant that when De Bruyne finally did make it 4-3 in the 88th minute there was still another 10 minutes to play, but the Welsh couldn't make the most of it. It was a cracking game though, much more fun than England v Senegal (and not just cos we lost).KBslittlesis said:Fucking hell……..I HATE VAR!1 -
It seemed a crazy time to play a friendly. Tuchel can't really be judged on that.3
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Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.2 -
Let’s be honest , none of the players wanna be there , and for once I’ll have to agree with them , ridiculous having 2 games at the end of the season imo5
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Has he? Won trophies at each of his last 4 clubs - Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern - and has a 64% win record across those jobs.SELR_addicks said:Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.
Was 1 game away (lost the CL final) from winning 5 trophies in a season at PSG.
Took over Chelsea and within 6 months had won the CL. Took them to 5 finals in 18 months.
Can criticise him all you want (and deservedly so) for the last 2 games but he is definitely not a bad manager. What track record did Southgate have that 'deserved' the role?7 -
I could never understand Tuchel getting this job,what has he done other than won the French League with PSG.Our performances are horrendous,struggling to beat sides that would struggle in league 2,and now totally outplayed by Senegal.Get rid now,cut the losses or another world cup will pass us by.4
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Not concerned with the results because we've been here before in playing meaningless matches at this time of year - we scored one goal in four matches two years ago and managed to lose twice (including 4-0 at home) to Hungary. What does concern me is bringing back players like Henderson and Walker for these matches and giving someone like Toney just four minutes. You've nothing to learn about the first two and not giving yourself an opportunity to find out anything about the latter on the international stage.
For half an hour, when we took off Kane, we played without someone who ordinarily operates as an out and out striker. Perhaps that was the idea but at one point we had a side with less than a dozen international goals between them so surely there was a need to find out whether Toney was up to replacing Kane if and when that situation arises. Otherwise, what was the point of including him in the squad? Equally, why not give Delap a chance in an England shirt for 30 minutes? He's the nearest thing, physically, to Kane and this is a friendly after all. It's no use claiming on one hand that this friendly is meaningless and then making it even more meaningless by playing Kane (just the 55 matches this season and over 300 appearances in the last 5 years for the soon to be 32 year old).0 -
'won trophies' at PSG and Bayern is a complete fallacy in leagues like those. They only care about the Champions League and he failed with both.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Has he? Won trophies at each of his last 4 clubs - Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern - and has a 64% win record across those jobs.SELR_addicks said:Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.
Was 1 game away (lost the CL final) from winning 5 trophies in a season at PSG.
Took over Chelsea and within 6 months had won the CL. Took them to 5 finals in 18 months.
Can criticise him all you want (and deservedly so) for the last 2 games but he is definitely not a bad manager. What track record did Southgate have that 'deserved' the role?
Tuchel had a 60% win rate with Bayern which is pretty poor considering Kompany has a 68% win rate, Flick had an 80% and Kovac had 69%.2 -
He's won the Champions League thoughthickandthin63 said:I could never understand Tuchel getting this job,what has he done other than won the French League with PSG.Our performances are horrendous,struggling to beat sides that would struggle in league 2,and now totally outplayed by Senegal.Get rid now,cut the losses or another world cup will pass us by.
Plenty of fans all over Social Media wanted a "name" from the club game who'd been successful
Tuchel ticks those two boxes, those fans have got what they wanted.
Been saying for a couple of years now, that the problem isn't who'll replace Southgate, its the FA you've got to rely on to get the appointment right - They stumbled into Southgate, he was always meant to be another Carsley... Caretaker Manager until the FA found someone else, only he did well enough in the games that he took charge of, so got the job.
Southgate would never have been given the job when he did, had Allardyce not been so stupid.
This was Southgate's response to being linked with the job prior to Allardyce taking it on
Gareth Southgate does not want England manager job - BBC Sport
Very similar to the response Carsley gave around 12-months ago... It should have just been given to Carsley in the first place (Like that Southgate link, I imagine Carsley would have taken it had he been offered it), someone with experience at International Football, its a different beast to the club game, hence why Coleman and Southgate did so well, compared to their CV's in the club game... Plus Carsley has worked with so many of the new generation, the players coming through, where for example has Angel Gomes disappeared to, when he impressed in the Nations League?
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And if we're letting social media pick a manager, the decision makers need to be let go as well.ForeverAddickted said:
He's won the Champions League thoughthickandthin63 said:I could never understand Tuchel getting this job,what has he done other than won the French League with PSG.Our performances are horrendous,struggling to beat sides that would struggle in league 2,and now totally outplayed by Senegal.Get rid now,cut the losses or another world cup will pass us by.
Plenty of fans all over Social Media wanted a "name" from the club game who'd been successful
Tuchel ticks those two boxes, those fans have got what they wanted.
Been saying for a couple of years now, that the problem isn't who'll replace Southgate, its the FA you've got to rely on to get the appointment right - They stumbled into Southgate, he was always meant to be another Carsley... Caretaker Manager until the FA found someone else, only he did well enough in the games that he took charge of, so got the job.
Southgate would never have been given the job when he did, had Allardyce not been so stupid.
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Of course they do... But then you're still relying on the FA to make the right choice regardless, when the only right choice was one they accidentally stumbled into back in 2016, and partly because they were forced... 30-years of evidence is right there... bar a few.SELR_addicks said:
And if we're letting social media pick a manager, the decision makers need to be let go as well.ForeverAddickted said:
He's won the Champions League thoughthickandthin63 said:I could never understand Tuchel getting this job,what has he done other than won the French League with PSG.Our performances are horrendous,struggling to beat sides that would struggle in league 2,and now totally outplayed by Senegal.Get rid now,cut the losses or another world cup will pass us by.
Plenty of fans all over Social Media wanted a "name" from the club game who'd been successful
Tuchel ticks those two boxes, those fans have got what they wanted.
Been saying for a couple of years now, that the problem isn't who'll replace Southgate, its the FA you've got to rely on to get the appointment right - They stumbled into Southgate, he was always meant to be another Carsley... Caretaker Manager until the FA found someone else, only he did well enough in the games that he took charge of, so got the job.
Southgate would never have been given the job when he did, had Allardyce not been so stupid.0 -
Ange In
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Who would you have given the job to who has a better track record?SELR_addicks said:
'won trophies' at PSG and Bayern is a complete fallacy in leagues like those. They only care about the Champions League and he failed with both.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Has he? Won trophies at each of his last 4 clubs - Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern - and has a 64% win record across those jobs.SELR_addicks said:Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.
Was 1 game away (lost the CL final) from winning 5 trophies in a season at PSG.
Took over Chelsea and within 6 months had won the CL. Took them to 5 finals in 18 months.
Can criticise him all you want (and deservedly so) for the last 2 games but he is definitely not a bad manager. What track record did Southgate have that 'deserved' the role?
Tuchel had a 60% win rate with Bayern which is pretty poor considering Kompany has a 68% win rate, Flick had an 80% and Kovac had 69%.1 -
The end of season timing of this game didn’t seem to negatively impact Senegal.3
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Didn’t see the game last night, but watched the game against Ireland on Friday, didn’t think they played that well in that game.cafctom said:The end of season timing of this game didn’t seem to negatively impact Senegal.0 -
This is true but to other nations we are seen as a big scalp and players are usually keen to impress. Senegal rested most of their main guys v Ireland the other day but went full strength v us.cafctom said:The end of season timing of this game didn’t seem to negatively impact Senegal.3 -
I was referring to the ‘pointless’ end of season type games. Hungary was 3 years ago and felt like a one off, and Iceland doesn’t quite fit that category as it was a warm up for the Euros starting a week later.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
We lost 4-0 at home to Hungary under Southgate, and i think you're forgetting the June friendly last year when we lost 1-0 at home to Iceland but then of course went on to reach the final of the Euro's. Obviously the last 2 performances have been abysmal but i still maintain you can't read too much into these games (the Iceland game last year is proof of that).cafctom said:Two dreadful performances. Rarely under Southgate would we get shown up like that by weaker opposition. And even in the June games we would perform as expected.The last time we had these sorts of games in June 2023 we put 11 goals past Malta and Macedonia collectively, and the players looked motivated.
That connection between the players doesn’t seem like it’s anywhere near what it used to be.Only highlight was being able to visit the City Ground for the first time in about 10 years. Beautiful stadium.
But whilst i can understand why the players are half arsed about these games, i simply cannot understand the team selection this week. Curtis Jones at right back and picking Henderson and Walker who will both be 36 at the World cup is just pointless. Walker was finished at Man City a year ago and then looked even worse at Milan, so why on earth is he even in the squad when right back is probably one of our strongest positions?
Giving Toney 2 minutes at the end is pretty insulting as well, the guy might as well have gone on holiday instead. Tuchel could've at least brought him on for Kane half an hour earlier, but no he brought on Rogers and Jones who both played 80 minutes v Andorra.Neither were good results of course, but what we’ve seen this week is two back to back very poor performances against weaker opposition that feel as though it can attributed to much more than just the timing of year.Going from Southgate’s management style to Tuchel’s will have surely been a radical change for the players.Under Southgate it seemed as though the players couldn’t wait to get together for England camps. I haven’t seen a team this week that showed that sort of spirit, at all. The only players who came out with any credit are Kane and Bellingham. The latter was busting a gut when he came on last night, whilst the rest of the players were faffing about not knowing where to pass the ball.2 -
cafctom said:
I was referring to the ‘pointless’ end of season type games. Hungary was 3 years ago and felt like a one off, and Iceland doesn’t quite fit that category as it was a warm up for the Euros starting a week later.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
We lost 4-0 at home to Hungary under Southgate, and i think you're forgetting the June friendly last year when we lost 1-0 at home to Iceland but then of course went on to reach the final of the Euro's. Obviously the last 2 performances have been abysmal but i still maintain you can't read too much into these games (the Iceland game last year is proof of that).cafctom said:Two dreadful performances. Rarely under Southgate would we get shown up like that by weaker opposition. And even in the June games we would perform as expected.The last time we had these sorts of games in June 2023 we put 11 goals past Malta and Macedonia collectively, and the players looked motivated.
That connection between the players doesn’t seem like it’s anywhere near what it used to be.Only highlight was being able to visit the City Ground for the first time in about 10 years. Beautiful stadium.
But whilst i can understand why the players are half arsed about these games, i simply cannot understand the team selection this week. Curtis Jones at right back and picking Henderson and Walker who will both be 36 at the World cup is just pointless. Walker was finished at Man City a year ago and then looked even worse at Milan, so why on earth is he even in the squad when right back is probably one of our strongest positions?
Giving Toney 2 minutes at the end is pretty insulting as well, the guy might as well have gone on holiday instead. Tuchel could've at least brought him on for Kane half an hour earlier, but no he brought on Rogers and Jones who both played 80 minutes v Andorra.Neither were good results of course, but what we’ve seen this week is two back to back very poor performances against weaker opposition that feel as though it can attributed to much more than just the timing of year.Going from Southgate’s management style to Tuchel’s will have surely been a radical change for the players.Under Southgate it seemed as though the players couldn’t wait to get together for England camps. I haven’t seen a team this week that showed that sort of spirit, at all. The only players who came out with any credit are Kane and Bellingham. The latter was busting a gut when he came on last night, whilst the rest of the players were faffing about not knowing where to pass the ball.
Agree with a lot of this, but Eze for example definitely came out with credit too, was our best player IMHO.cafctom said:
I was referring to the ‘pointless’ end of season type games. Hungary was 3 years ago and felt like a one off, and Iceland doesn’t quite fit that category as it was a warm up for the Euros starting a week later.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
We lost 4-0 at home to Hungary under Southgate, and i think you're forgetting the June friendly last year when we lost 1-0 at home to Iceland but then of course went on to reach the final of the Euro's. Obviously the last 2 performances have been abysmal but i still maintain you can't read too much into these games (the Iceland game last year is proof of that).cafctom said:Two dreadful performances. Rarely under Southgate would we get shown up like that by weaker opposition. And even in the June games we would perform as expected.The last time we had these sorts of games in June 2023 we put 11 goals past Malta and Macedonia collectively, and the players looked motivated.
That connection between the players doesn’t seem like it’s anywhere near what it used to be.Only highlight was being able to visit the City Ground for the first time in about 10 years. Beautiful stadium.
But whilst i can understand why the players are half arsed about these games, i simply cannot understand the team selection this week. Curtis Jones at right back and picking Henderson and Walker who will both be 36 at the World cup is just pointless. Walker was finished at Man City a year ago and then looked even worse at Milan, so why on earth is he even in the squad when right back is probably one of our strongest positions?
Giving Toney 2 minutes at the end is pretty insulting as well, the guy might as well have gone on holiday instead. Tuchel could've at least brought him on for Kane half an hour earlier, but no he brought on Rogers and Jones who both played 80 minutes v Andorra.Neither were good results of course, but what we’ve seen this week is two back to back very poor performances against weaker opposition that feel as though it can attributed to much more than just the timing of year.Going from Southgate’s management style to Tuchel’s will have surely been a radical change for the players.Under Southgate it seemed as though the players couldn’t wait to get together for England camps. I haven’t seen a team this week that showed that sort of spirit, at all. The only players who came out with any credit are Kane and Bellingham. The latter was busting a gut when he came on last night, whilst the rest of the players were faffing about not knowing where to pass the ball.2 -
Hasn't got to be the man with the best track record though, it needs to be the right person to fit the job and the squad.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Who would you have given the job to who has a better track record?SELR_addicks said:
'won trophies' at PSG and Bayern is a complete fallacy in leagues like those. They only care about the Champions League and he failed with both.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Has he? Won trophies at each of his last 4 clubs - Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern - and has a 64% win record across those jobs.SELR_addicks said:Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.
Was 1 game away (lost the CL final) from winning 5 trophies in a season at PSG.
Took over Chelsea and within 6 months had won the CL. Took them to 5 finals in 18 months.
Can criticise him all you want (and deservedly so) for the last 2 games but he is definitely not a bad manager. What track record did Southgate have that 'deserved' the role?
Tuchel had a 60% win rate with Bayern which is pretty poor considering Kompany has a 68% win rate, Flick had an 80% and Kovac had 69%.
For example I'm sure others out there in 2011 had a better track record than Chris Powell, but he fitted us as a club. You could argue Adkins had a better track record than Nathan Jones - four promotions, more Championship, PL experience etc. Capello had an amazing CV but was a bad fit, Southgate got relegated with Middlesbrough and was a lot better.
Who that right person could have been (if it proves not to be Tuchel) is a much more difficult question! But then I'm not paid presumably a few hundred thousand a year to work that out like some are.1 -
I do hope not. I love the man, but the reaction from the press would make the "Chris Who" headlines when he got his first England cap seem like effusive praise in comparison.arny23394 said:
You aren’t actually being serious are you?paulsturgess said:We had a great assistant for a number of years, specifically appointed to get opportunity and experience under Southgate to be ready for his own opportunity… and then we chose a German successor.APPOINT POWELL0 -
Our issue was one of attacking intent and clearly patterns of play going forwards.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Who would you have given the job to who has a better track record?SELR_addicks said:
'won trophies' at PSG and Bayern is a complete fallacy in leagues like those. They only care about the Champions League and he failed with both.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Has he? Won trophies at each of his last 4 clubs - Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern - and has a 64% win record across those jobs.SELR_addicks said:Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.
Was 1 game away (lost the CL final) from winning 5 trophies in a season at PSG.
Took over Chelsea and within 6 months had won the CL. Took them to 5 finals in 18 months.
Can criticise him all you want (and deservedly so) for the last 2 games but he is definitely not a bad manager. What track record did Southgate have that 'deserved' the role?
Tuchel had a 60% win rate with Bayern which is pretty poor considering Kompany has a 68% win rate, Flick had an 80% and Kovac had 69%.
Southgate kept us tight and relied on set pieces to score the odd goal but outside of that there was no set pattern in our play in the final third of the pitch.
We need a manager that was able to build on what Southgate did, but introduce those clear patterns of play. It did not need to be a 'name'. The obsession over names is what will ruin this squad because Tuchel has won things with squads that other people have developed for him.1 -
Isn't that exactly what the thinking was here? Southgate has developed the squad, let Tuchel do what he has often done and take them over the line to success? I think if we hadn't had the Carsley bridge the whole transition would have been a lot smootherSELR_addicks said:
Our issue was one of attacking intent and clearly patterns of play going forwards.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Who would you have given the job to who has a better track record?SELR_addicks said:
'won trophies' at PSG and Bayern is a complete fallacy in leagues like those. They only care about the Champions League and he failed with both.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Has he? Won trophies at each of his last 4 clubs - Dortmund, PSG, Chelsea and Bayern - and has a 64% win record across those jobs.SELR_addicks said:Need to get rid of whoever decided that Tuchel, who has failed with multiple big teams, deserved this role.
Looks like he's sat at home, looked up a Southgate 2022 line up and just picked all the names. Ignoring that some of them are now completely over the hill.
Was 1 game away (lost the CL final) from winning 5 trophies in a season at PSG.
Took over Chelsea and within 6 months had won the CL. Took them to 5 finals in 18 months.
Can criticise him all you want (and deservedly so) for the last 2 games but he is definitely not a bad manager. What track record did Southgate have that 'deserved' the role?
Tuchel had a 60% win rate with Bayern which is pretty poor considering Kompany has a 68% win rate, Flick had an 80% and Kovac had 69%.
Southgate kept us tight and relied on set pieces to score the odd goal but outside of that there was no set pattern in our play in the final third of the pitch.
We need a manager that was able to build on what Southgate did, but introduce those clear patterns of play. It did not need to be a 'name'. The obsession over names is what will ruin this squad because Tuchel has won things with squads that other people have developed for him.1 -
I did! And I spent most of it saying the same thing on the World Cup thread 😩😩😩🤣🤣🤣aliwibble said:
You should've seen the Belgium v Wales game on Monday night - gave a penalty against the Welsh for the ball hitting the defender's elbow because he was putting his hands behind his back, VAR check on each goal and penalty decision took AGES, to the extent that the Welsh pulled it back to 3-1 in the 7th minute of added time in the first half. However, the ultimate was when having been pegged back to 3-3 in the second half, the Belgians thought they'd made it 4-3, only for a 4 or 5 minute VAR check to conclude that the ball had actually gone out near the halfway line in the build up (right in front of Craig Bellamy as well, who was giving Nathan Jones a run for his money in going absolutely apeshit at that point, and got booked for his trouble too). That meant that when De Bruyne finally did make it 4-3 in the 88th minute there was still another 10 minutes to play, but the Welsh couldn't make the most of it. It was a cracking game though, much more fun than England v Senegal (and not just cos we lost).KBslittlesis said:Fucking hell……..I HATE VAR!1 -
Being fair, we got relegated in the Nations League after a couple of dreadful performances at this time of year. Think we got spanked by Hungary if my memory serves correctly.cafctom said:Two dreadful performances. Rarely under Southgate would we get shown up like that by weaker opposition. And even in the June games we would perform as expected.The last time we had these sorts of games in June 2023 we put 11 goals past Malta and Macedonia collectively, and the players looked motivated.
That connection between the players doesn’t seem like it’s anywhere near what it used to be.Only highlight was being able to visit the City Ground for the first time in about 10 years. Beautiful stadium.
Players should be allowed to rest in June. No one cares about these games.0
