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POST MATCH THREAD : Port Vale Vs Charlton Athletic : Saturday 6th January 2024

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Comments

  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    The team is indeed full of kids but there aren't many options. We can't defend but attacking wise we were ok yesterday I thought. 
  • Bailey
    Bailey Posts: 3,265
    queensland_addick said:
    On the plus side, Apples bowed to pressure and played L Watson and for the most part, we looked a far better team. We moved the ball well and quickly, looked dangerous, and scored three.

    I also think the main problem has now been clearly exposed : Game Management
    We have to be more clever in running down the clock, slowing the tempo, relieving pressure.
    Just as other teams do to us.
    But for that we need experience and leadership on the pitch, and that will be the signing (if it happens) that could change our fortunes.
    He didn't bow to pressure, he was faced with a clear choice, an out of form Fraser or Watson. Watson is not the best defensive midfielder but Fraser would have been worse. There is also a part of me that is suspicious with regards to the terms of the Watson loan deal, we don't play him and he returns to his parent club.  
  • Croydon
    Croydon Posts: 12,728
    Addictedoldgit said:
    I was never a ‘believer’ of MA and would have kept Holden.
    However given we have our three strikers out injured plus at least two midfielders with Fraser going backwards.
    I do feel Appleton should have a window where he has input and responsibility in the squad, to show what he can do, or not.

    It looks like MA will survive for now, that makes sense to me.
     Sacking the manager every six months - rinse & repeat; a recipe for chaos.
    I'm not concerned with his apparent ‘grey’ persona, Bowyer was the same.
    ???
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    KettsJohn said:
    When we lost to Vale at home under Holden, I recall thinking that they were relegation fodder and we should never have lost that game. Since then we have regressed. Yesterday they were much better than us. Just much better. Don't think Holden had Miles or Chuks for the home game either? Worst thing for me is for the first time in over 50 years, I feel ambivalent and not disappointed in losing. I have never celebrated a goal less even in pre season games. Really depressing times. Find it hard to watch Appleton interviewed pre and post match. Need a meaningful change at our club.
    Sorry to hear this KJ. Despite the car crash that is Charlton at the moment I still celebrate goals and  I was gutted with the late equaliser yesterday. 
    I avoid Appleton’s interviews, and Scott’s too. There’s really no point in listening to them. They’re all media trained in how not to say anything meaningful. Holden was the master of that.
    Hopefully a few decent signing will rekindle your interest and improve results. 
  • oohaahmortimer
    oohaahmortimer Posts: 34,149
    Steve Brown made an interesting point re loans 
    that the loaning club would pay nothing if played sub they’d pay half his wages and if not played at all they’d pay all his wages 
    we clearly haven’t got that deal with Luton 
  • killerandflash
    killerandflash Posts: 69,851
    As I said yesterday, we didn't let in the third goal because we switched off at the end, which was the case against Cambridge for example.

    We had been battered all the second half, wave after wave of shots and crosses, and if you are having to do last ditch defending for such a long time, eventually your luck will run out.

    If you concede 29 shots, TWELVE on target, you will win a tiny number of games. No excuse for the defensive frailties, but when you lose control of the midfield and the ball doesn't stick up front due to the lack of a physical No 9, the defence will be in for a hard game.

    And no disrespect to Port Vale, but to be dominated by such a mid table team, is grim.
  • DOUCHER
    DOUCHER Posts: 7,900
    it is no coincidence that most of us said about 6 weeks ago when miles as well as chucks got injured, that we would struggle to get any more wins until reinforcements were brought in in the window - its glaringly obvious that no physical presence and know how up top is making it very difficult to 'get out' / relieve the pressure or put us on the front foot - it was then that apples should have either changed things or played tedic, instead of persisting with the 433 but with no 'target man' - u cannot play this system, certainly in league 1, without a physical number 9. May and Kanu are both finishers - ok, May can also play a bit but a target man he isn't and kanu is purely a finisher. Its a total failure of football management but apples is literally saying there's nothing he can do, the recruitment has been crap and he's left with a bunch of kids who are doing their best. Well thats right to a certain extent but his tactics are not helping - his only solution to the last 10 minutes is to put Terrell Thomas on for Edun to presumably help with the aerial onslaught - genius.      
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
  • bobmunro
    bobmunro Posts: 20,846
    Cloudworm said:
    Entertaining game. That's all you can expect these days. Value for money at least.

    Value for money? It wasn't.
  • KettsJohn
    KettsJohn Posts: 1,210
    JamesSeed said:
    KettsJohn said:
    When we lost to Vale at home under Holden, I recall thinking that they were relegation fodder and we should never have lost that game. Since then we have regressed. Yesterday they were much better than us. Just much better. Don't think Holden had Miles or Chuks for the home game either? Worst thing for me is for the first time in over 50 years, I feel ambivalent and not disappointed in losing. I have never celebrated a goal less even in pre season games. Really depressing times. Find it hard to watch Appleton interviewed pre and post match. Need a meaningful change at our club.
    Sorry to hear this KJ. Despite the car crash that is Charlton at the moment I still celebrate goals and  I was gutted with the late equaliser yesterday. 
    I avoid Appleton’s interviews, and Scott’s too. There’s really no point in listening to them. They’re all media trained in how not to say anything meaningful. Holden was the master of that.
    Hopefully a few decent signing will rekindle your interest and improve results.


    Yeah, don't get me wrong, my love for Charlton will never die. In my lifetime been through a lot of "thin". Charlton are in my DNA despite living in Norfolk for 35 years now. No white flag yet. I just feel that we are as low as we have ever been from a footballing perspective. I was really optimistic about this season. We never learn!
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  • Melrose
    Melrose Posts: 836
    DOUCHER said:
    it is no coincidence that most of us said about 6 weeks ago when miles as well as chucks got injured, that we would struggle to get any more wins until reinforcements were brought in in the window - its glaringly obvious that no physical presence and know how up top is making it very difficult to 'get out' / relieve the pressure or put us on the front foot - it was then that apples should have either changed things or played tedic, instead of persisting with the 433 but with no 'target man' - u cannot play this system, certainly in league 1, without a physical number 9. May and Kanu are both finishers - ok, May can also play a bit but a target man he isn't and kanu is purely a finisher. Its a total failure of football management but apples is literally saying there's nothing he can do, the recruitment has been crap and he's left with a bunch of kids who are doing their best. Well thats right to a certain extent but his tactics are not helping - his only solution to the last 10 minutes is to put Terrell Thomas on for Edun to presumably help with the aerial onslaught - genius.      
    Totally agree. Very good post. Appleton has been dire. Certainly wouldn't want him to have any influence on potential incomings. Guess what... the opposite seems to be happening. Too full of shit and excuses for my liking. Every manager must cope with injuries, suspensions, unhappy players etc etc. It's part of their remit.
  • stoneroses19
    stoneroses19 Posts: 7,222
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    Not everyone posts with the game fully in mind. Some have a pre-conceived mark for a player (this isn’t just aimed at Hector), and will purposely give an exaggerated mark either higher or lower than how the player actually performed on that game. 
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It’s called confirmation bias. A lot of people wrote him off when he made some bad errors early on. 
  • blackpool72
    blackpool72 Posts: 23,679
    JamesSeed said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It’s called confirmation bias. A lot of people wrote him off when he made some bad errors early on. 
    And some stubbornly defend him despite his short givings 
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,349
    edited January 2024
    JamesSeed said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It’s called confirmation bias. A lot of people wrote him off when he made some bad errors early on. 
    Not made any errors lately has he... Like last week and against Burton. 
  • The Prince-e-Paul
    The Prince-e-Paul Posts: 6,688
    EveshamAddick said:
    In his career to date, over nearly 300 games, Dobbo has never managed more than 1 goal per season. 

    This season he has 3 goals from 30 games. He’s not the person you really want turning up on the end of a cross in the last minute of injury time as, shown by his stats, he has never scored many.
    For me Dobbo is a Browny type player. Not class but a trier and has personal pride in his game.  He isn't the best technical player, or the quickest or even a great leader, but he shows the rest how much effort should be put in. I firmly believe that if they all put in his shift we'd be much higher up the table. If he goes we're in a whole heap of trouble. 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,316
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    Don't look at me. I gave him an even-handed 6.5, because I judge on the performance, not the player
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,349
    edited January 2024
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It's like that every week tbf. He cost us a goal against Oxford through sheer lack of trying and yet was getting 7s and 8s.
  • soapboxsam
    soapboxsam Posts: 23,229
    edited January 2024
    stoneroses19 said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    Not everyone posts with the game fully in mind. Some have a pre-conceived mark for a player (this isn’t just aimed at Hector), and will purposely give an exaggerated mark either higher or lower than how the player actually performed on that game. 

    Thanks for the answer stonecross, and that's what I believe.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,316
    Chunes said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It's like that every week tbf. He cost us a goal against Oxford through sheer lack of trying and yet was getting 7s and 8s.
    Again, I can't let this slander go unchallenged. He was done by a good bit of movement. The idea he wouldn't be trying in that situation is so deeply fucking insulting.
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  • Talal
    Talal Posts: 11,490
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    I thought Hector had a decent game and was better than Jones which I haven't thought often. May have been fortunate not to have conceded a penalty, wouldn't have been his fault just seen them given. 
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,349
    edited January 2024
    Leuth said:
    Chunes said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It's like that every week tbf. He cost us a goal against Oxford through sheer lack of trying and yet was getting 7s and 8s.
    Again, I can't let this slander go unchallenged. He was done by a good bit of movement. The idea he wouldn't be trying in that situation is so deeply fucking insulting.
    Take it up with Curbs. But I think he knows a thing or two about defenders. 
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    KettsJohn said:
    JamesSeed said:
    KettsJohn said:
    When we lost to Vale at home under Holden, I recall thinking that they were relegation fodder and we should never have lost that game. Since then we have regressed. Yesterday they were much better than us. Just much better. Don't think Holden had Miles or Chuks for the home game either? Worst thing for me is for the first time in over 50 years, I feel ambivalent and not disappointed in losing. I have never celebrated a goal less even in pre season games. Really depressing times. Find it hard to watch Appleton interviewed pre and post match. Need a meaningful change at our club.
    Sorry to hear this KJ. Despite the car crash that is Charlton at the moment I still celebrate goals and  I was gutted with the late equaliser yesterday. 
    I avoid Appleton’s interviews, and Scott’s too. There’s really no point in listening to them. They’re all media trained in how not to say anything meaningful. Holden was the master of that.
    Hopefully a few decent signing will rekindle your interest and improve results.


    Yeah, don't get me wrong, my love for Charlton will never die. In my lifetime been through a lot of "thin". Charlton are in my DNA despite living in Norfolk for 35 years now. No white flag yet. I just feel that we are as low as we have ever been from a footballing perspective. I was really optimistic about this season. We never learn!
    I know. I backed us for auto promotion when we signed May and Camara. 
    That’ll be the last time I bet on us for promotion. 
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    edited January 2024
    In terms of their third goal, defensive instinct says somebody has to be tight on the scorer. Yes, it was a decent ball to him but we had enough defenders to stop a shot. I wonder how their defensive brain works sometimes, actually not sometimes but often. Maybe it is fatigue. I think it is just we are too soft.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    blackpool72 said:
    JamesSeed said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It’s called confirmation bias. A lot of people wrote him off when he made some bad errors early on. 
    And some stubbornly defend him despite his short givings 
    Misgiving or shortcomings?
    My views on him are fairly realistic, and yes, he does have shortcomings, particularly for a player who played a big part in Fulham winning the Championship title a couple of years ago. 
    I’ve said I’d prefer two Joneses to two Hectors, but I’ve changed my mind now. Jones has been very disappointing over the last few games.
    I’ve also said I would be happy if we bought better. 
    But I judge each game and performance on its merits, which some don’t do. A poster gave Jones 8 and Hector 3 yesterday, which just shows some people aren’t watching closely, if they’re watching at all. 
    I’m a fan of LL’s Players Stats because the majority of people on CL are good judges. Hector’s improved performances have resulted in him being highly ranked in the stats, just as it should be. It’s bizarre that some won’t accept that, like old Chunsey. It’s good to get behind our own players if they’re improving, surely?
  • MuttleyCAFC
    MuttleyCAFC Posts: 47,729
    What I have seen with Hector is that he started the season dreadfully but has improved. I don't see him as a problem compared to the glaring problems. It is probably sensible to look at he glaring problems first surely.
  • JamesSeed
    JamesSeed Posts: 17,380
    edited January 2024
    MuttleyCAFC said:
    What I have seen with Hector is that he started the season dreadfully but has improved. I don't see him as a problem compared to the glaring problems. It is probably sensible to look at he glaring problems first surely.
    Agreed. The one where he allowed the ball to bounce, and it went over his head, was a shocker, particularly for a player of his pedigree. 
    Btw, did you see the pics of their third that I posted? Jones was transfixed, and didn’t move a muscle, let alone close the player down, or attempt to block. 
    Leadership required - they should all have been making more of an effort to stop the goal. 
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,316
    Chunes said:
    JamesSeed said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It’s called confirmation bias. A lot of people wrote him off when he made some bad errors early on. 
    Not made any errors lately has he... Like last week and against Burton. 
    Both 'errors' being him having to come across from his position to the left side of defence to cover for conspicuously absent others, and getting marginally beaten to the ball. I've acknowledged his errors from previous games, but you seem incapable of seeing him as anything other than a shirker when if anything he's being overworked
  • Chunes
    Chunes Posts: 17,349
    edited January 2024
    JamesSeed said:
    blackpool72 said:
    JamesSeed said:
    soapboxsam said:
    Can anyone explain to me PLEASE why Hector marks are so erratic ?

    I will disregard Ronnie Moore's 9 ! But he also got 7's and 8' yet some gave 3's and 4's 🤔

    You would think CL members aren't watching the same match. How can some say he was solid yet others say he was a liability after watching the same game?

    I only watched the goals on Sky highlights but AMB needed a stronger hand for the 2nd( we all agreed on that) which was similar to the Port Vale keeper for our 3rd.
    It’s called confirmation bias. A lot of people wrote him off when he made some bad errors early on. 
    And some stubbornly defend him despite his short givings 
    Misgiving or shortcomings?
    My views on him are fairly realistic, and yes, he does have shortcomings, particularly for a player who played a big part in Fulham winning the Championship title a couple of years ago. 
    I’ve said I’d prefer two Joneses to two Hectors, but I’ve changed my mind now. Jones has been very disappointing over the last few games.
    I’ve also said I would be happy if we bought better. 
    But I judge each game and performance on its merits, which some don’t do. A poster gave Jones 8 and Hector 3 yesterday, which just shows some people aren’t watching closely, if they’re watching at all. 
    I’m a fan of LL’s Players Stats because the majority of people on CL are good judges. Hector’s improved performances have resulted in him being highly ranked in the stats, just as it should be. It’s bizarre that some won’t accept that, like old Chunsey. It’s good to get behind our own players if they’re improving, surely?
    I could reply but why repeat what I've written before. I mean, didn't you also say recently that we missed Ryan Innis this season?

    I can't see the value in sharing views about CBs with someone who sees the game in that way.

    Still, you are entitled to share your views on here, that's what we're here to do after all, and I wouldn't spit at you in the way Leuth does when he hears something he doesn't like! We have different standards, that's all.
  • Leuth
    Leuth Posts: 23,316
    Lloyd Jones meanwhile doesn't challenge properly for a header or attempt to block a shot, both leading to goals, and nothing like the ongoing witch-hunt for Hector, who's one of the few actual footballers in our side. I mean, I'm a fan of Jones' but this is getting stupid

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