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POST MATCH THREAD : Port Vale Vs Charlton Athletic : Saturday 6th January 2024
Comments
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I think under this rule then if the handball stops a goalscoring opportunity then it's still a handball.LargeAddick said:that was ball to hand and his hand/arm wasn’t in an unnatural position. Would be fuming if that were given against us. Clutching at straws in my opinion.
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Then I’m assuming they should have had another penalty earlier then too when Hector handled.Chunes said:
I think under this rule then if the handball stops a goalscoring opportunity then it's still a handball.LargeAddick said:that was ball to hand and his hand/arm wasn’t in an unnatural position. Would be fuming if that were given against us. Clutching at straws in my opinion.
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Not much to add tonight, just feeling weary of the same old same old week after week.
But, in a nutshell, I don't believe these players are as poor as many perceive them to be.
Regardless of whether Dobbo is really as good as most make out, or whether CBT only involves himself for 45 minutes of a game, or indeed whether AMB's positioning is poor, my feelings are that these lads haven't regressed overnight.
IMO, they are being coached by a manager who fails to convince in his post match interviews, stands on the sidelines like a mute swan & is known for too many drawn matches. This, plus having an Assistant who presumably has worked with him previously and as such probably is comfortable with his methods, hence doesn't question them, adds up to a less than challenging management team ....Or perhaps the pertinent word should be uninspiring ?
I just find it difficult to believe that, say, 8 or more players in any one match, are criticised by our fans for failing to do their jobs on the pitch, for poor decision making etc. I can understand maybe 3 or 4 having a "mare" but double that number ? That smacks of something more fundamental than just having a bad day at the office.
I've stated before that, for me, there is one common denominator in this issue ....and am concerned that more Lifers aren't questioning the quality of the training that the squad is receiving under MA & his team. Match after match, the same/similar mistakes are being made, for example, the soul destroying late goals conceded of late which are costing us valuable points and hence, increased pressure week after week. I'd venture to add that such pressure may culminate in players' minds as a match progresses to a point where tired legs & speed of thought on/off the ball is as much in the mind as in the limbs...
I honestly don't believe that MA will have the answers or indeed the nous to turn these performances around, regardless of who may or may not join in the January window.
I sincerely hope that I'm wrong but will venture to add that for me, he is the problem.
And unless I'm totally deluded , we'll be back to square one yet again come the close season.
" Round & round & round it goes...where it stops no-one knows " (The Steve Miller Band)
If only that magical word could change our fortunes...
Abracadabra.30 -
I’m not sure what people expect from changing managers. I’m no Apples fan, but read the site. Goalie is not good enough, full backs are not up to it. Midfield is weak, wingers don’t cover, forwards aren’t there, but change the manager and suddenly this bunch of feckless tossers will suddenly become a coherent team. I just don’t see it.12
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Not sure about that. The ball was only going slowly, and he let it hit his arm to prevent it going to the unmarked player. So stopped a goal scoring opportunity. That’s another way of seeing it at least. Anyway, Dobson should have done better, stuck the ball in the net, and we’d all be a bit happier.LargeAddick said:that was ball to hand and his hand/arm wasn’t in an unnatural position. Would be fuming if that were given against us. Clutching at straws in my opinion.0 -
Ah, The Wheel of Fortune.Fanny Fanackapan said:Not much to add tonight, just feeling weary of the same old same old week after week.
" Round & round & round it goes...where it stops no-one knows " (The Steve Miller Band)
Abracadabra.0 -
Perfectly put mate. I'm not long home and had a similar experience to you. Friendly locals happy to chat and I even got called "duckie." I won't leave it another 27 years for my next visit.HandG said:cabbles said:Valleyfan2 said:Late goals beyond ridiculous now. Appleton’s post match comments completely deluded. Pissed off big time.
The thing that really grates me is that any half decent manager worth their salt, would be all over this late goals debacle. Even more criminal is that fact we get what really shout be a late winner, having scored for a third time, and we still can’t see it out.
I totally agree with this but, despite the disappointment of another late goal conceded, I had a great day today. The pubs we went to were good, the people we met were lovely, the atmosphere in the away end was positive and there was no toxicity after the game.Things are horrible at the moment but I still love Charlton and I love days like today. Hopefully, in the not too distant future, these lovely days will be accompanied by three points!4 -
I was never a ‘believer’ of MA and would have kept Holden.
However given we have our three strikers out injured plus at least two midfielders with Fraser going backwards.
I do feel Appleton should have a window where he has input and responsibility in the squad, to show what he can do, or not.
It looks like MA will survive for now, that makes sense to me.
Sacking the manager every six months - rinse & repeat; a recipe for chaos.
I'm not concerned with his apparent ‘grey’ persona, Bowyer was the same.5 -
Yup. Ok-ish sums it up for me. Awful today though.Ducktapeshoerepairs said:
Thomas has been shocking this season. Albeit partly because he is constantly being played out of position at left back. But ‘ok-ish’ !!??JamesSeed said:
Thomas has been ok-ish generally this season, but looked awful today. Jones had his worst game for us today, and has looked more shaky than normal in recent weeks. Hector has improved and has looked more solid in our last seven games.Davo55 said:
I think that's harsh on Jones. He was a bit off his game today but he's been our best defender this season by a big margin. And Thomas is way off the pace for a league one side.Dazzler21 said:I think maybe both Jones and Hector aren't good enough. To be honest they seem a similar level to TT.But all of the defenders would look better if our midfield wasn’t so easily outmuscled.0 - Sponsored links:
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LargeAddick said:that was ball to hand and his hand/arm wasn’t in an unnatural position. Would be fuming if that were given against us. Clutching at straws in my opinion.
Arm stretched out to block the ball by the looks of this.4-3 to the resurgent Addicks.1 -
...buT It iSn't aPpLeToNs sQuAd, He nEeDs a tRaNsFeR WiNdOw...
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On the plus side, Apples bowed to pressure and played L Watson and for the most part, we looked a far better team. We moved the ball well and quickly, looked dangerous, and scored three.
I also think the main problem has now been clearly exposed : Game Management
We have to be more clever in running down the clock, slowing the tempo, relieving pressure.
Just as other teams do to us.
But for that we need experience and leadership on the pitch, and that will be the signing (if it happens) that could change our fortunes.2 -
In fairness to the ref, there’s a very small between players for him to see that.JamesSeed said:LargeAddick said:that was ball to hand and his hand/arm wasn’t in an unnatural position. Would be fuming if that were given against us. Clutching at straws in my opinion.Arm stretched out to block the ball by the looks of this.4-3 to the resurgent Addicks.3 -
My agony caused by yet another late goal conceded was mitigated by a bottle of VAT9 arrack which helped a lot.
@Fanny Fanackapan uses the nice phrase "common denominator" in our performances and the obvious one that stands out for me week after week is our abject defence.
Any opposition side only needs to mount a three minute half-hearted offensive and we capitulate. Unguided lobs into our penalty area provoke complete panic. Hopeful hoofs over the top bounce three times before we lose possession and we always look highly vulnerable at every set piece and corner.
Appleton has done nothing to improve this glaring gap in our performances. If anything we look worse than under Holden. He seems to think some tough tackling midfielders will sort it all out but that is not the solution.
Our defensive organisation is all over the place and that must come down to coaching and preparation. In the lead up to their penalty Anderson was marking two men on the left side of our penalty area before he slid in and the ball hit his hand. Where in God's name was the left back and left sided CD? And as for their last goal, how was the attacker able to receive a pass to feet, control and get away a a measured shot all on the edge of our penalty box unless his was Lionel Messi?
Sort it out Mr. Appleton. Not good enough.3 -
In his career to date, over nearly 300 games, Dobbo has never managed more than 1 goal per season.This season he has 3 goals from 30 games. He’s not the person you really want turning up on the end of a cross in the last minute of injury time as, shown by his stats, he has never scored many.0
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Yes, you would think from his interview we had come back from behind 3 times. Perhaps he intentionally didn't want to be too critical, but came across as if he is out of ideas.KettsJohn said:Fortunate to get a point. Is Appleton completely deluded? Never know when they are beat? Dreadful again. Port Vale looked much better than us. It's a really poor league this one. Cheltenham best Pompey today. Exeter also one. Will be a scrap with Appleton managing this team. Bleak.1 -
My thoughts are, no player really comes away with any credit as no one played well enough over the course of the game. Ash made a few good saves, but of course had a few blunders, Dobbo put himself about but he's struggling atm, CBT his usual self trying to make things happen but he's surrounded by players not up to it.
I genuinely thought we got battered, I don't see how there can be any other perception of the game, they had over 4x more shots than us and we were gifted a couple of goals and still managed to bottle our leads. We don't have the character for a relegation scrap so we are banking on teams below us imo.
Anyway here's the vlog;
https://youtu.be/PtP05Mgsje0?si=0q_DaFcVpsVJHyrV
For those interested14 -
Same as mentioned by others - we got absolutely dominated by an average league one side. Looking at the scoreline you'd at least think we were half decent going forwards, but we weren't even that impressive in the final 3rd.If we lose CBT this window and suffer a couple more injuries we could be in serious trouble. Hoping JCH and a couple of other permanents can guide us to the safety of mid table.
I just don't know what the andwer is Long Term. Sack Appleton? Give him time?
Every situation seems equally depressing. What a time to support us.3 -
Agreed and unfortunately with the first 2 loan signings it looks like he is getting his choice of players in which doesn't bode wellcabbles said:
This is the nub of it for me. I didn’t expect anything today, and ultimately people could argue it’s a point and stops the rot of 3 defeats on the bounce. However, a point to stop the rot is typically, hard earned off the back of conceding no more than say one goal. In addition, in the context of the last 10 games or however long it’s been since we won, a point is pretty useless, particularly in this manner.Valleyfan2 said:Late goals beyond ridiculous now. Appleton’s post match comments completely deluded. Pissed off big time.
The thing that really grates me is that any half decent manager worth their salt, would be all over this late goals debacle. Even more criminal is that fact we get what really shout be a late winner, having scored for a third time, and we still can’t see it out. These are professionals, manager and players. All the players on the pitch today bar Tyreece Campbell and Kanu should have the experience to see that result out, and the manager with his time in the game, definitely should.Then, we get yet another load of babble in his post match interview. I understand he can’t dig them out given the lack of options we have, specifically publicly, but he can’t seriously be coming out with some of the stuff he has and be expected to be taken seriously.
I think he’s already lost the fan base partly due to the fact a lot of people including me, weren’t that up for him in the first place, plus the bad run. But, if he had maybe come out with some halfway sensible post match views, then maybe we would give him a bit more slack.
He’s definitely not inherited a great squad, I’ll give him that, but for me, his actions and words over the last few weeks have hastened a sort of self destruction.And now, my worry is that if these owners are serious about building for promotion next season, I absolutely don’t want it to be with his players or players he thinks we’ll do the job. I think he’ll he gone by Feb, therefore we shouldn’t trust him with a say in who comes in0 - Sponsored links:
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His hand looks like it is beside him , also Jones would have been offside I reckon , pathetic attempt at a flick on by DobboCallumcafc said:Couple of things….1. This looks like handball to me and would’ve been a chance to make it 3-4
2. Dobson’s done all the hard work getting into position but then he tries a weird flick instead of just smacking the ball at the goal? Why?
Hector got away with a hand ball first half which was more worthy of a pen than that but whatever
we’re utter dogshit and we sit through the apologistic lame fans saying wait for this window bollox as ever and the next and the next and oh we’re unlucky with injuries when we sign crocks
load of complete Cnut this club is
shameful times , worst in our history a downward spiral that we’ve been struggling to resist for years , I genuinely wouldn’t care if any of these shithouse footballers aren’t here next season , guff utter fucking guff
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I watched on a stream yesterday and at the end I just sat there looking at the screen and wondering what the hell do they do in training?
Yet again a late late equaliser and we drop more points, where is game management...I.e if in doubt kick it out, preferably to Row Z!
Yes we have injuries to key players, especially up front, but our defence is injury free, we just can't defend!
I can't wait for Wednesday's open forum, hard questions need to be asked, this club, OUR club, is going backwards!
Not seen any comment from dear old Ronnie yet, unless I've missed it, but I guess he'll be blaming CBT (most overrated player ever apparently!) and the new owners have only been here 5 mins so it's not their fault!
Well Ronnie - CBT scored, got an assist and helped set up our 3rd, as for the new owners let's see how they cope on Wednesday!
Finally we need strikers and a CB in, tomorrow, or the game against PU could be embarrassing!
EDIT just seen dear old Ronnie's player scores - surprise surprise our 3 goalscorers CBT, TC and Kanu were the lowest points....Hector was MoM on 9 points, despite being part of a defence that conceded 3 goals......I give up!6 -
Take CBT out atm and we have zero goal threat8
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And yet some would still be happy for him to be sold.oohaahmortimer said:Take CBT out atm and we have zero goal threat6 -
Massey’s goal:
Pass played to Massey who has got beyond Louie Watson:
Massey gets the ball. Jones is ahead of him on the edge of the box with his hands on his knees.
Massey controls the ball. Jones is still ahead of him and hasn’t moved at all. Watson is still behind Massey but trying to get round him.
Massey is preparing to shoot as Watson comes alongside him. Jones still has his hands on his knees. He’s a spectator.
Massey shoots. Jones is frozen to the spot. His only contribution is to block AMB’s view. Thomas has come across, but has had to leave his man to do so.Why is Jones still standing there with his hands on his knees?
Jones turns to watch the ball fly into the net.A 3-2 unexpected win would have been a massive boost, even if it was against the run of play. The fact that we nearly nicked the winner at the death makes it even worse.I’ve said that I’d keep Jones over Hector if they bring in one better centre back, but after the evidence of the last few games I’m not so sure. I’m wondering if he might have cramped up, so couldn’t move? It’s the only explanation I can come up with.
Edit: Also noticed in the first photo how Vale have a 4-3 overload. We need to get more men behind the ball when trying to close out a match.
And Curbs made a very good point about Ashley throwing the ball out quite quickly to a player who was marked, when he’d have been better off lying on the ball for a bit and waiting for the team to reach the halfway line, before putting the ball into Vale’s half.Curbs knows a thing or two! Game management consultant.12 -
Was in a pub in Gravesend yesterday afternoon just as went 3-2 up. The guy on the next table kept saying it will end up 3-3 coz Charlton can't hold on in the final minutes.
Turns out he was a Charlton season ticker holder and we both knew the inevitable was coming.1 -
Add May and JCH and we have more of a goal threatoohaahmortimer said:Take CBT out atm and we have zero goal threat0 -
When we lost to Vale at home under Holden, I recall thinking that they were relegation fodder and we should never have lost that game. Since then we have regressed. Yesterday they were much better than us. Just much better. Don't think Holden had Miles or Chuks for the home game either? Worst thing for me is for the first time in over 50 years, I feel ambivalent and not disappointed in losing. I have never celebrated a goal less even in pre season games. Really depressing times. Find it hard to watch Appleton interviewed pre and post match. Need a meaningful change at our club.4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OyFofMCeJs
