The loan thing is a bit silly. Not only is 'I haven't heard of them' not a particularly strong argument because it's reflective of the perception not the reality, a number of those players are playing at a high level now, so would certainly have been useful loans for a L1 club. Plus, of the teams listed you'd have to say we're by far the biggest draw in terms of facilities and upward potential. Lincoln just aren't going to get the loans we are and they have to cut their cloth accordingly. On top of that, some of these loans listed were at L2 level. You'd expect (hope) that Appleton will have access to a higher standard of loanee than at Lincoln, so it's about making the most of the player and improving them. Of the players listed:
Kemar Roofe - Rangers. Was prolific at Championship level and surely could have got a Prem move but went to Anderlecht instead. Blighted by injuries. His Oxford spell converted him from a clever attacker to a prolific striker
George Baldock - Sheffield United in the Prem. Signed for SU after two good loan spells at Oxford, promoted to the Premier League two years after that
Jonjoe Kenny - Hertha Berlin. Was offered a contract extension at Everton but declined. Was kept in the Everton squad the season after his Oxford loan as he'd improve a lot.
Brennan Johnson - moved to Tottenham for £47.5m. 10 goals for Lincoln saw him moved in the Forest first team where he scored 16 goals to send them up and then was a big part of keeping them up the next season.
Charlie Patino is extremely highly rated, though it's too early to say where he'll go.
Appleton obviously knows how to make the most of a decent loan player. I think we also pick and choose what we remember of loanees and overrate a lot of them. Bielik has had bad injuries but has spent the years after us playing for lower end Championship teams in danger of relegation. Cullen has done well but he's going to be relegated back down to the Championship and I think Burnley is where he'll stay. Gallagher is the highest flying but no-one we've had on loan has shifted for more than what Brennan Johnson did. Then add to that list all the shit loans we've had that people won't have heard of at other clubs. Gavin Kilkenny? Juan Castillo? Nile John? Dylan Levitt? Sullay Kaikai? Jordan Botaka? We're actually abit crap with loaning in players, we got three very right in a one year period and that's constantly pointed to as the level we should always be hitting or we've gone horribly wrong. It's not reality
Agree with all of that @garrymanilow particularly the stuff about us forgetting the dud loans. The good ones all came in a short window too (Cullen, Bieliek, Gallagher) or because they were at Palace and didn’t have to move (JRS). Of course loans are inconsistent but I don’t think our record is great
Hoping Appletons history of good loans can continue in January if the 3 mentioned above do go home
I've no idea of his history with loan players......who's he had "under his wing" that have proved to be a success then ?
At Oxford, he had players like Kemar Roofe, George Baldock, JonJo Kenny & Tyler Roberts at Oxford…think he had Jordan Graham there.
Lincoln - Morgan Rodgers, Brennan Johnson, Josef Bursik, Lewis Forini, Josh Griffiths, Morgan Whittaker
Blackpool - Lewis Forini (again), Rhys Williams, Charlie Patino, Morgan Rodgers, Morgan Rodger’s…
The majority of these players were playing for premier league teams at the time, and looking through the careers of these players, have gone on to play for teams pushing for promotion out of the Championship or Premier League teams.
Its seems Appleton is well respected at the “bigger” clubs, and they are happy to send their young prospects to be developed under his watchful eye.
It's not really an impressive list, is it? We've had better loanees than that.
Have we? In recent years the only loanees that truly stand out are Jes and Gallagher.
Who I'd take over anyone on that list...
Ian Maatsen playing Prem football for Chelsea this season.
Let's see who he manages to bring in for Feb.
What about Josh Cullen?
Good one, forgot about him and Bielik from Santa Claus.
I don't think there's any comparison between the players we've brought in on loan and the ones Appleton has. But he keeps saying he's got this great history of bringing in top loanees.
Brennan Johnson is miles above all of those players. Maatsen comes on as a late sub for Chelsea every so often because despite spending shinty six billion quid they still don't have a squad, Cullen has done well but is getting relegated back down to the Championship and Bielik has been a member of Championship squads threatened by relegation ever since he left us. Brennan Johnson played 38 Premier League games last season scoring 8 and assisting 3, and he just scored his first Spurs goal the other day. He's 22.
Hoping Appletons history of good loans can continue in January if the 3 mentioned above do go home
I've no idea of his history with loan players......who's he had "under his wing" that have proved to be a success then ?
At Oxford, he had players like Kemar Roofe, George Baldock, JonJo Kenny & Tyler Roberts at Oxford…think he had Jordan Graham there.
Lincoln - Morgan Rodgers, Brennan Johnson, Josef Bursik, Lewis Forini, Josh Griffiths, Morgan Whittaker
Blackpool - Lewis Forini (again), Rhys Williams, Charlie Patino, Morgan Rodgers, Morgan Rodger’s…
The majority of these players were playing for premier league teams at the time, and looking through the careers of these players, have gone on to play for teams pushing for promotion out of the Championship or Premier League teams.
Its seems Appleton is well respected at the “bigger” clubs, and they are happy to send their young prospects to be developed under his watchful eye.
It's not really an impressive list, is it? We've had better loanees than that.
Have we? In recent years the only loanees that truly stand out are Jes and Gallagher.
Who I'd take over anyone on that list...
Ian Maatsen playing Prem football for Chelsea this season.
Let's see who he manages to bring in for Feb.
What about Josh Cullen?
Good one, forgot about him and Bielik from Santa Claus.
I don't think there's any comparison between the players we've brought in on loan and the ones Appleton has. But he keeps saying he's got this great history of bringing in top loanees.
Brennan Johnson is miles above all of those players. Maatsen comes on as a late sub for Chelsea every so often because despite spending shinty six billion quid they still don't have a squad, Cullen has done well but is getting relegated back down to the Championship and Bielik has been a member of Championship squads threatened by relegation ever since he left us. Brennan Johnson played 38 Premier League games last season scoring 8 and assisting 3, and he just scored his first Spurs goal the other day. He's 22.
Well, that's your opinion. Gallagher has 111 Premier League appearances and has ten caps for England. He's 23.
But getting in argument about who's better, a winger or a CM, doesn't seem like a productive use of time.
I'm sure Apples has had his dud loans at those clubs as well.
Personally hoping we sign an older profile of player in the window. Not sure whether we could afford in the budget. For example, some Championship players with a couple hundred league appearances who isn’t playing much football. (I,e Patrick Bauer only player I could think of top of my head etc)
Personally hoping we sign an older profile of player in the window. Not sure whether we could afford in the budget. For example, some Championship players with a couple hundred league appearances who isn’t playing much football. (I,e Patrick Bauer only player I could think of top of my head etc)
Hoping Appletons history of good loans can continue in January if the 3 mentioned above do go home
I've no idea of his history with loan players......who's he had "under his wing" that have proved to be a success then ?
At Oxford, he had players like Kemar Roofe, George Baldock, JonJo Kenny & Tyler Roberts at Oxford…think he had Jordan Graham there.
Lincoln - Morgan Rodgers, Brennan Johnson, Josef Bursik, Lewis Forini, Josh Griffiths, Morgan Whittaker
Blackpool - Lewis Forini (again), Rhys Williams, Charlie Patino, Morgan Rodgers, Morgan Rodger’s…
The majority of these players were playing for premier league teams at the time, and looking through the careers of these players, have gone on to play for teams pushing for promotion out of the Championship or Premier League teams.
Its seems Appleton is well respected at the “bigger” clubs, and they are happy to send their young prospects to be developed under his watchful eye.
It's not really an impressive list, is it? We've had better loanees than that.
Have we? In recent years the only loanees that truly stand out are Jes and Gallagher.
Who I'd take over anyone on that list...
Ian Maatsen playing Prem football for Chelsea this season.
Let's see who he manages to bring in for Feb.
What about Josh Cullen?
Good one, forgot about him and Bielik from Santa Claus.
I don't think there's any comparison between the players we've brought in on loan and the ones Appleton has. But he keeps saying he's got this great history of bringing in top loanees.
Brennan Johnson is miles above all of those players. Maatsen comes on as a late sub for Chelsea every so often because despite spending shinty six billion quid they still don't have a squad, Cullen has done well but is getting relegated back down to the Championship and Bielik has been a member of Championship squads threatened by relegation ever since he left us. Brennan Johnson played 38 Premier League games last season scoring 8 and assisting 3, and he just scored his first Spurs goal the other day. He's 22.
Well, that's your opinion. Gallagher has 111 Premier League appearances and has ten caps for England. He's 23.
But getting in argument about who's better, a winger or a CM, doesn't seem like a productive use of time.
I'm sure Apples has had his dud loans at those clubs as well.
I would agree with you on Gallagher but I didn't actually see him on your list up there. I'd say Gallagher is doing the best of all, but then equally we had him on loan for 6 months and he took in loans at Swansea, West Brom and Palace after that so I'd suggest our influence wasn't as big a part of his development as we like to think. Of course Appleton will have had duds, that's the point. You're picking out the best 4 or 5 loans across our club and comparing that against a manager dealing with different clubs at different levels and different resources, so I think if anything comparing wingers to midfielders is the more logical thing. I also now see that JRS is up there on your list, and any manager is taking Johnson over JRS at this point in time if you want to compare wingers to wingers.
To look at that Appleton list though and shrug and say there's no comparison is incorrect though, there's enough Premier League experienced players there for him to stand by what he says, which is what we're talking about. His work with Johnson, Roofe and Baldock absolutely improved those players and they're having very good careers.
Hoping Appletons history of good loans can continue in January if the 3 mentioned above do go home
I've no idea of his history with loan players......who's he had "under his wing" that have proved to be a success then ?
At Oxford, he had players like Kemar Roofe, George Baldock, JonJo Kenny & Tyler Roberts at Oxford…think he had Jordan Graham there.
Lincoln - Morgan Rodgers, Brennan Johnson, Josef Bursik, Lewis Forini, Josh Griffiths, Morgan Whittaker
Blackpool - Lewis Forini (again), Rhys Williams, Charlie Patino, Morgan Rodgers, Morgan Rodger’s…
The majority of these players were playing for premier league teams at the time, and looking through the careers of these players, have gone on to play for teams pushing for promotion out of the Championship or Premier League teams.
Its seems Appleton is well respected at the “bigger” clubs, and they are happy to send their young prospects to be developed under his watchful eye.
It's not really an impressive list, is it? We've had better loanees than that.
Have we? In recent years the only loanees that truly stand out are Jes and Gallagher.
Who I'd take over anyone on that list...
Ian Maatsen playing Prem football for Chelsea this season.
Let's see who he manages to bring in for Feb.
What about Josh Cullen?
Good one, forgot about him and Bielik from Santa Claus.
I don't think there's any comparison between the players we've brought in on loan and the ones Appleton has. But he keeps saying he's got this great history of bringing in top loanees.
Brennan Johnson is miles above all of those players. Maatsen comes on as a late sub for Chelsea every so often because despite spending shinty six billion quid they still don't have a squad, Cullen has done well but is getting relegated back down to the Championship and Bielik has been a member of Championship squads threatened by relegation ever since he left us. Brennan Johnson played 38 Premier League games last season scoring 8 and assisting 3, and he just scored his first Spurs goal the other day. He's 22.
Well, that's your opinion. Gallagher has 111 Premier League appearances and has ten caps for England. He's 23.
But getting in argument about who's better, a winger or a CM, doesn't seem like a productive use of time.
I'm sure Apples has had his dud loans at those clubs as well.
I would agree with you on Gallagher but I didn't actually see him on your list up there. I'd say Gallagher is doing the best of all, but then equally we had him on loan for 6 months and he took in loans at Swansea, West Brom and Palace after that so I'd suggest our influence wasn't as big a part of his development as we like to think. Of course Appleton will have had duds, that's the point. You're picking out the best 4 or 5 loans across our club and comparing that against a manager dealing with different clubs at different levels and different resources, so I think if anything comparing wingers to midfielders is the more logical thing. I also now see that JRS is up there on your list, and any manager is taking Johnson over JRS at this point in time if you want to compare wingers to wingers.
To look at that Appleton list though and shrug and say there's no comparison is incorrect though, there's enough Premier League experienced players there for him to stand by what he says, which is what we're talking about. His work with Johnson, Roofe and Baldock absolutely improved those players and they're having very good careers.
My last post on this. It boils down to opinions on players, I personally don't think there is any comparison. If this club were offered a choice of five loan players to enhance the squad right now (leaving our positional needs out of the equation):
Option 1
Baldock Fiorini Patino Johnson Roofe
Option 2
Gallagher Bielik Rak-Sakyi Maatsen Cullen
For me, it's a really easy choice. For you, it might be different and that's fine.
Hoping Appletons history of good loans can continue in January if the 3 mentioned above do go home
I've no idea of his history with loan players......who's he had "under his wing" that have proved to be a success then ?
At Oxford, he had players like Kemar Roofe, George Baldock, JonJo Kenny & Tyler Roberts at Oxford…think he had Jordan Graham there.
Lincoln - Morgan Rodgers, Brennan Johnson, Josef Bursik, Lewis Forini, Josh Griffiths, Morgan Whittaker
Blackpool - Lewis Forini (again), Rhys Williams, Charlie Patino, Morgan Rodgers, Morgan Rodger’s…
The majority of these players were playing for premier league teams at the time, and looking through the careers of these players, have gone on to play for teams pushing for promotion out of the Championship or Premier League teams.
Its seems Appleton is well respected at the “bigger” clubs, and they are happy to send their young prospects to be developed under his watchful eye.
It's not really an impressive list, is it? We've had better loanees than that.
Have we? In recent years the only loanees that truly stand out are Jes and Gallagher.
Who I'd take over anyone on that list...
Ian Maatsen playing Prem football for Chelsea this season.
Let's see who he manages to bring in for Feb.
What about Josh Cullen?
Good one, forgot about him and Bielik from Santa Claus.
I don't think there's any comparison between the players we've brought in on loan and the ones Appleton has. But he keeps saying he's got this great history of bringing in top loanees.
Brennan Johnson is miles above all of those players. Maatsen comes on as a late sub for Chelsea every so often because despite spending shinty six billion quid they still don't have a squad, Cullen has done well but is getting relegated back down to the Championship and Bielik has been a member of Championship squads threatened by relegation ever since he left us. Brennan Johnson played 38 Premier League games last season scoring 8 and assisting 3, and he just scored his first Spurs goal the other day. He's 22.
Well, that's your opinion. Gallagher has 111 Premier League appearances and has ten caps for England. He's 23.
But getting in argument about who's better, a winger or a CM, doesn't seem like a productive use of time.
I'm sure Apples has had his dud loans at those clubs as well.
I would agree with you on Gallagher but I didn't actually see him on your list up there. I'd say Gallagher is doing the best of all, but then equally we had him on loan for 6 months and he took in loans at Swansea, West Brom and Palace after that so I'd suggest our influence wasn't as big a part of his development as we like to think. Of course Appleton will have had duds, that's the point. You're picking out the best 4 or 5 loans across our club and comparing that against a manager dealing with different clubs at different levels and different resources, so I think if anything comparing wingers to midfielders is the more logical thing. I also now see that JRS is up there on your list, and any manager is taking Johnson over JRS at this point in time if you want to compare wingers to wingers.
To look at that Appleton list though and shrug and say there's no comparison is incorrect though, there's enough Premier League experienced players there for him to stand by what he says, which is what we're talking about. His work with Johnson, Roofe and Baldock absolutely improved those players and they're having very good careers.
My last post on this. It boils down to opinions on players, I personally don't think there is any comparison. If this club were offered a choice of five loan players to enhance the squad right now (leaving our positional needs out of the equation):
Option 1
Baldock Fiorini Patino Johnson Roofe
Option 2
Gallagher Bielik Rak-Sakyi Maatsen Cullen
For me, it's a really easy choice. For you, it might be different and that's fine.
I can guarantee a loan player won’t win our player of the year this season.
Honestly think it could be one of the closest in years at least between the assumed top 2
I don’t see anyone close to May at the moment. He’d probably win at least 80% of the vote if it was called now and I can’t see that changing much by the end of the season
But that's a ridiculous comparison because not only are you comparing some loans we had in the Championship and L1 over a couple of recent years to plenty that were picked up in L2 and L1 by lesser clubs, there's a few in there on both sides who might go on to be world beaters or duds, it's too soon for us to know. The question you need to ask is whether the player signed was a top loan signing for the level the team was at, and if the manager improved them. Patino is a very well regarded prospect at Arsenal. He did well at Blackpool and has gone on to a loan at Swansea which is a step up. Patino might never get any higher than this but he's very highly rated now, which is the kind of player you want to get on loan. Roofe was loaned by L2 Oxford from Premier League West Brom, did well enough that Oxford signed him and then had a big money move to Leeds. Baldock was loaned from L1/Championship MK Dons to L2 Oxford, then did so well in his second loan he was recalled to play in the Championship for MK. Lewis Fiorini was a great get from Man City for L1 Lincoln. The next season Fiorini was loaned up a league to Blackpool under Appleton again, obviously they were pleased with the job he did with Fiorini the previous season.
So sure, maybe you'd take Cullen right now over 30 year old Kemar Roofe who was loaned to Appleton in L2 in 2015 but that would be completely missing the point wouldn't it. In L2 through to the Championship managing some quite small teams Appleton got good loans for the level who enhanced the team and who he improved enough that they kicked on to a higher level from there. That's a positive thing for us
Shouldn't all the above nonsense be on another thread?
No, this is the rumours thread. This is where random shit goes. If you want to talk about who we might be signing in January go and make a thread about clouds or something
The “never heard of him” argument is a funny one. Especially when half the forum says “never heard of him” about half a dozen of the latest England squads.
I bet not many had heard of Louie Watson before September.
If we are seriously going for top 6 we need to invest in two good wingers who can create and are consistent and can defend
And I suppose you’d let CBT go for £100k as he doesn’t defend well enough?
His attitude and performance on Wednesday be lucky to 10 qjust uid
I've been interested to read your posts when relating to CBT, and it strikes me you just don't like him. Yet, May aside, he scores good goals and has a good assist ratio.....not bad for a 10 quid player! As for wingers who defend....they are called 'wing backs' which CBT isn't! However please give me names of players at our level who are out and out wingers who are also good defenders! As an ex right winger myself I would readily admit I wasn't good at defending, but going forward was a different matter!
Comments
Honestly think it could be one of the closest in years at least between the assumed top 2
But getting in argument about who's better, a winger or a CM, doesn't seem like a productive use of time.
I'm sure Apples has had his dud loans at those clubs as well.
Option 1
Baldock
Fiorini
Patino
Johnson
Roofe
Option 2
Gallagher
Bielik
Rak-Sakyi
Maatsen
Cullen
For me, it's a really easy choice. For you, it might be different and that's fine.
Gallagher was when we were in the Championship so you'd expect him to be better than most L1 loans.
Oh... right.
I bet not many had heard of Louie Watson before September.
@RonnieMoore old chap, please give me a list of 6 players in the world who fit into this description
As for wingers who defend....they are called 'wing backs' which CBT isn't!
However please give me names of players at our level who are out and out wingers who are also good defenders!
As an ex right winger myself I would readily admit I wasn't good at defending, but going forward was a different matter!