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Climate Emergency

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  • Stig said:
    Chizz said:
    MrWalker said:
    I'll keep making my savings while Katie Perry blasts into space for  a10 minute jolly.
    Seems reasonable.
    The rocket is fueled by liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, with the main emission being water vapour.  The flight will probably emit significantly less greenhouse gas than the reporters who drive to the launch site to cover the pointless, narcissistic joy ride. 
    If it's a joy ride, it's not pointless. Joy is the very point of it. 
    "...pointless, narcissistic waste of money"?
  • Katy*
  • So we need to be self-sufficient when it comes to making the world's most expensive steel, but we need to rely on coking coal imported from China?

    Government's messaging is all over the place on this.
  • I wonder what  Greta (Thunderbergs are go) has to say about it?  I'm not on 'X' but I know she is. Anyone seen her post anything about it? 
  • swordfish said:
    I wonder what  Greta (Thunderbergs are go) has to say about it?  I'm not on 'X' but I know she is. Anyone seen her post anything about it? 
    Nothing as far as I can see. 
  • Chizz said:
    MrWalker said:
    I'll keep making my savings while Katie Perry blasts into space for  a10 minute jolly.
    Seems reasonable.
    The rocket is fueled by liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, with the main emission being water vapour.  The flight will probably emit significantly less greenhouse gas than the reporters who drive to the launch site to cover the pointless, narcissistic joy ride. 
    So a magic carbon free tree created all the Infrastructure, testing, design etc. Pardon me if I don't fall for the PR bollocks
  • MrWalker said:
    Chizz said:
    MrWalker said:
    I'll keep making my savings while Katie Perry blasts into space for  a10 minute jolly.
    Seems reasonable.
    The rocket is fueled by liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen, with the main emission being water vapour.  The flight will probably emit significantly less greenhouse gas than the reporters who drive to the launch site to cover the pointless, narcissistic joy ride. 
    So a magic carbon free tree created all the Infrastructure, testing, design etc. Pardon me if I don't fall for the PR bollocks

    It seems this rocket emits water vapour (i.e. steam?)but also burns a lot of nitrogen especially during take off. I think the flames are a give away in that there is a significant amount of combustion occurring. There's an interesting bbc video pointing out the harm done by this and other space launches; https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cr5dr518zmpo (they point out that water vapour itself is harmful to the ozone layer- it doesn't naturally occur there).

    Also this article from earlier this week says similar: https://sustainabilitymag.com/articles/diversity-circularity-blue-origins-all-women-crew  

    This Independent article from 2021 goes into more depth and compares the different emission types of the various billionaire's rocket systems that had by then been developed, making the point that more data was needed, plus an outline summary, at the end, of the case for taxing these recreational fights - https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/blue-origin-launch-carbon-emissions-b1937774.html

    Recycling the rocket parts seems to be the sustainability USP for Blue Origin; but the whole enterprise seems more about rich people having fun at the expense of us other living creatures, with only other humans having the capacity to stop them.   
  • That is a fantastic idea!
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  • Wouldn't fancy being installed as the guy in the orange for when a train comes though. You'd have thought they could have designed that better. 
  • So sad to read this article today, the damage being done to the planet by humans, is having a drastic effect on insects, which play a crucial role in the food chain and the 'tree of life'. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jun/03/climate-species-collapse-ecology-insects-nature-reserves-aoe?CMP=share_btn_url&fbclid=IwY2xjawKr_7FleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETBhUjNwNGpnOG9nU3F2eHFUAR4LlOgh3avWLW3yAS5TXZyinpPX3NJUNhLL7AvRt4hzflsiyzml8vvVQeLgJA_aem_ZeJGb9dm3jc3o09lbYD4Iw


    That is tragic 
  • edited June 4
    So sad to read this article today, the damage being done to the planet by humans, is having a drastic effect on insects, which play a crucial role in the food chain and the 'tree of life'. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jun/03/climate-species-collapse-ecology-insects-nature-reserves-aoe?CMP=share_btn_url&fbclid=IwY2xjawKr_7FleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETBhUjNwNGpnOG9nU3F2eHFUAR4LlOgh3avWLW3yAS5TXZyinpPX3NJUNhLL7AvRt4hzflsiyzml8vvVQeLgJA_aem_ZeJGb9dm3jc3o09lbYD4Iw


    I was getting quite disheartened about the possibility of real change in this country both on the environment and socially. Especially with this government abandoning its pre election promises of change in a number of areas. The political landscape, media and Overton window here makes change pretty unlikely and thay was depressing me no end. 

    However I've spendlt more time looking abroad and it's becoming increasingly clear lots of progress is being made across Europe, South America, South Asia, China etc. Both socially and technologically towards dealing with climate change. Whether this will be enough or fast enough not remains to be seen but it is encouraging that when you look outside the UK US bubble we seem to live in, real change is happening and people and the environment are feeling the benefit. 

    It's a shame the UK is being left behind on this when we had the opportunity to be world leaders and get serious economic growth from the green sector but I'm glad progress is being made. Good for my mental health to focus on this. Explains why so of many of my age group peers of degree educated people in their 20s and 30s are leaving the country.
  • Stig said:
    That is a fantastic idea!
    It is but look at the openness of that track compared to the majority of the UKs tracks, found down in cuttings and behind trees and bushes. 
  • edited June 4
    Stig said:
    That is a fantastic idea!
    It is but look at the openness of that track compared to the majority of the UKs tracks, found down in cuttings and behind trees and bushes. 
    Railway companies/ authorities/ network rail- someone will be along soon to clarify which one I'm sure- seem to like nothing more than stripping back trees and other foliage. They would see that as a win win for their climate credentials! Though I doubt we'll get so far as serious consideration for a multitude of reasons.

    I believe there have been cases made and proven for solar panels over car parking space, as well as roof tops.
  • Stig said:
    That is a fantastic idea!
    It is but look at the openness of that track compared to the majority of the UKs tracks, found down in cuttings and behind trees and bushes. 
    Railway companies/ authorities/ network rail- someone will be along soon to clarify which one I'm sure- seem to like nothing more than stripping back trees and other foliage. They would see that as a win win for their climate credentials! Though I doubt we'll get so far as serious consideration for a multitude of reasons.

    I believe there have been cases made and proven for solar panels over car parking space, as well as roof tops.
    Solar panels can and should be in all those places and a lot more. Warehouses, government buildings etc.  Unfortunately there is not the political will or the public opinion to make it happen. 

    Costs of panels themselves are really quite cheap now, the costs are labour, inverters and batteries. I've posted about batteries getting better with the development and release of solid state batteries in China. With political will we could encourage solar panels and bring down costs whilst also boosting employment, skills etc. For example offering apprenticeships specifically for solar electician qualifications would bring down Labour costs and prices and availability.  

    Given the panels are such a small part of the cost now its actually much more efficient to do these on a larger scale as once you have the expertise these and the inverter paid for the marginal cost of extra panels gets smaller. So there should be incentives for businesses to donthis on commercial premises and government should be leading the way with all their buildings (also reduces ongoing costs).

    Also expect to see mini wind turbines (a 2ft bladeless model has been produced in China) start appearing on people's homes too. 
  • So sad to read this article today, the damage being done to the planet by humans, is having a drastic effect on insects, which play a crucial role in the food chain and the 'tree of life'. 

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/jun/03/climate-species-collapse-ecology-insects-nature-reserves-aoe?CMP=share_btn_url&fbclid=IwY2xjawKr_7FleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETBhUjNwNGpnOG9nU3F2eHFUAR4LlOgh3avWLW3yAS5TXZyinpPX3NJUNhLL7AvRt4hzflsiyzml8vvVQeLgJA_aem_ZeJGb9dm3jc3o09lbYD4Iw


    I was getting quite disheartened about the possibility of real change in this country both on the environment and socially. Especially with this government abandoning its pre election promises of change in a number of areas. The political landscape, media and Overton window here makes change pretty unlikely and thay was depressing me no end. 

    However I've spendlt more time looking abroad and it's becoming increasingly clear lots of progress is being made across Europe, South America, South Asia, China etc. Both socially and technologically towards dealing with climate change. Whether this will be enough or fast enough not remains to be seen but it is encouraging that when you look outside the UK US bubble we seem to live in, real change is happening and people and the environment are feeling the benefit. 

    It's a shame the UK is being left behind on this when we had the opportunity to be world leaders and get serious economic growth from the green sector but I'm glad progress is being made. Good for my mental health to focus on this. Explains why so of many of my age group peers of degree educated people in their 20s and 30s are leaving the country.
    A big problem in this country is the spread of misinformation on social media. It's awash with climate change denial and pushing back on initiatives like solar farms, wind turbines and battery storage. I'm glad that other countries are seeing sense, but we should be leading the way in the new technology which will take over from fossil fuels.
  • Stig said:
    That is a fantastic idea!
    It is but look at the openness of that track compared to the majority of the UKs tracks, found down in cuttings and behind trees and bushes. 
    Railway companies/ authorities/ network rail- someone will be along soon to clarify which one I'm sure- seem to like nothing more than stripping back trees and other foliage. They would see that as a win win for their climate credentials! Though I doubt we'll get so far as serious consideration for a multitude of reasons.

    I believe there have been cases made and proven for solar panels over car parking space, as well as roof tops.
    Solar panels can and should be in all those places and a lot more. Warehouses, government buildings etc.  Unfortunately there is not the political will or the public opinion to make it happen. 

    Costs of panels themselves are really quite cheap now, the costs are labour, inverters and batteries. I've posted about batteries getting better with the development and release of solid state batteries in China. With political will we could encourage solar panels and bring down costs whilst also boosting employment, skills etc. For example offering apprenticeships specifically for solar electician qualifications would bring down Labour costs and prices and availability.  

    Given the panels are such a small part of the cost now its actually much more efficient to do these on a larger scale as once you have the expertise these and the inverter paid for the marginal cost of extra panels gets smaller. So there should be incentives for businesses to donthis on commercial premises and government should be leading the way with all their buildings (also reduces ongoing costs).

    Also expect to see mini wind turbines (a 2ft bladeless model has been produced in China) start appearing on people's homes too. 
    It’s been a few years since I was involved in trying to install solar panels on existing roofs, but going back roughly 5 years, the major problem was the cost and practicality’s of fitting additional supports to the roofs to ensure they could take the additional weight of the solar panels and the associated infa-structure. Obviously if the design of the existing is such that it is impossible to take the additional loads then there no way they can be installed. Warehouses are an example are built to a minimal roof loadings as this keep the initial costs down, and no doubt this will be the case for governmental buildings.
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  • £500m was paid to wind farm compaies to keep wind turbines from producing , so as not to overload the grid. 
  • Dansk_Red said:
    £500m was paid to wind farm compaies to keep wind turbines from producing , so as not to overload the grid. 
    Yes. Constraint payments. Been known of for some time but seems have come back round in news cycles recently. This sky news report from 2023 predicts such payments will rise to £2.5bn annually before falling back. 
    https://news.sky.com/story/britons-paying-hundreds-of-millions-to-turn-off-wind-turbines-as-network-cant-handle-the-power-they-make-on-the-windiest-days-12822156

    This is the problem of uk infrastructure lag.

    I think this also forms basis for the case for local battery storage so generation and consumption is local to the premises, and so the grid itself isnt as involved is distribution and supply until the upgrades have happened.
  • Dansk_Red said:
    £500m was paid to wind farm compaies to keep wind turbines from producing , so as not to overload the grid. 
    Yes. Constraint payments. Been known of for some time but seems have come back round in news cycles recently. This sky news report from 2023 predicts such payments will rise to £2.5bn annually before falling back. 
    https://news.sky.com/story/britons-paying-hundreds-of-millions-to-turn-off-wind-turbines-as-network-cant-handle-the-power-they-make-on-the-windiest-days-12822156

    This is the problem of uk infrastructure lag.

    I think this also forms basis for the case for local battery storage so generation and consumption is local to the premises, and so the grid itself isnt as involved is distribution and supply until the upgrades have happened.
    Bang on. Localised grids with storage is and has always been the way to make renewables work. 
  • Will increase house prices but probably a good move to combat the insane electricity costs in this country.

    Be nice if this policy was introduced alongside the scrapping of Biodiversity Net Gain policies which are a huge burden in the planning system.
  • Will increase house prices but probably a good move to combat the insane electricity costs in this country.

    Be nice if this policy was introduced alongside the scrapping of Biodiversity Net Gain policies which are a huge burden in the planning system.
    The UK is one of the most nature depleted countries in the world and we need to do everything to reverse that. 

    Biodiversity is the backbone of life on Earth—it keeps ecosystems resilient, economies thriving, and life itself flourishing. Here’s why it matters:

    • Ecosystem Stability: Diverse ecosystems are better at recovering from disturbances, whether natural disasters or human impacts.

    • Food & Medicine: A rich variety of species ensures a stable food supply and provides the foundation for medical discoveries—many life-saving drugs come from nature!

    • Climate Regulation: Forests, oceans, and wetlands absorb carbon and regulate weather patterns, helping to combat climate change.

    • Health :  Nature & green spaces are known to be beneficial to human mental and physical health.

  • I have no objection to increasing biodiversity, obviously, but the implementation of 'Biodiversity Net Gain' in the planning system by the Conservatives doesn't provide enough exemptions for smaller sites. Even Angela Rayner has woken up to this.

    Basically all development sites are required to improve biodiversity on-site by 10%, and this must be certified by an ecologist who has to undertake surveys and submit a BNG plan as part of the application. This includes literally any development over 5m x 5m (which is basically 99% of all applications). Ecologists have got everyone over a barrel and are charging everyone thousands because the government has mandated their input.

    This country really doesn't help itself.


  • I have no objection to increasing biodiversity, obviously, but the implementation of 'Biodiversity Net Gain' in the planning system by the Conservatives doesn't provide enough exemptions for smaller sites. Even Angela Rayner has woken up to this.

    Basically all development sites are required to improve biodiversity on-site by 10%, and this must be certified by an ecologist who has to undertake surveys and submit a BNG plan as part of the application. This includes literally any development over 5m x 5m (which is basically 99% of all applications). Ecologists have got everyone over a barrel and are charging everyone thousands because the government has mandated their input.

    This country really doesn't help itself.


    It does matter, lots of smaller sites add up. Developers want to make as much profit as possible and won't do anything to improve the conditions for wildlife unless they are forced. 
  • edited June 6
    Climate change is all a massive lie anyway 
    Sadly there is a lot of this misinformation & disinformation on social media. I'm not going to waste my time replying further, other than to say you are wrong.
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