I said we would be the draw specialists: At the beginning of the season when we kicked off and again when we didn't get a natural attacking left back or a forward in the window. This must be clear to every cafc supporter/critic, Garner, Gallen, Sandgaard's etc.
The Emperor's new clothes has left us stark naked.
Clare did this last season. Just as it appears he is about to hit a purple patch of form, he drops a level or two. Accumulating cards etc. Last season he got a red and it went downhill. Needs to focus on consistency. Especially with competition.
After Egbo...don't overlook Chin's tenacity and ability to get forward when played on the right hand side.
I’d really like us to go to 442 tried this 433 and I don’t think it works in this division although it’s worked better than under Adkinsf.I think our squad will be more suited to 442. When leaburn came on with stockley we looked a lot better today. thought mcCrappy had his best game today but I’d sonner have caskey on bench than risk mcCrappy getting injured warming up or something.
Who is McCrappy who you thought had his best game today? If you're referring to McGrandles he didn't play.
No-one stated he played yesterday but merely made the comment that he 'd likely be injured warming up off the bench he occupied.
You've also lost me.
Think our Lifer pal might have been saying that McGrandles had his best game thus far as, in fact, he didn't actually play....IYKWIM. Or am I trying to be too kind ?
TBH, I'm not sure that I understand either but after a 20 hour day yesterday, and now watching our Sky recorded coverage of yesterday's triumph in Nottingham, I guess I'm not at my best this afternoon.
I’d really like us to go to 442 tried this 433 and I don’t think it works in this division although it’s worked better than under Adkinsf.I think our squad will be more suited to 442. When leaburn came on with stockley we looked a lot better today. thought mcCrappy had his best game today but I’d sonner have caskey on bench than risk mcCrappy getting injured warming up or something.
If it doesn't work in this division why do teams keep getting promoted playing it. It hasn't, yet, worked for us.
There is a big difference.
Yes I do mean best performance by him not playing Mcgrandles can’t see why we signed him.
These teams that got promoted playing 433 did they have a stockley or leaburn in the middle.meaning 6foot plus target striker. I very much doubt they did.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
You’re looking at that 18/19 team especially, with rose tinted hindsight. Go look back at some post match threads from early in that season where we didn’t get three points and you’ll see comments like “Taylor isn’t physical enough to get us promoted”, “Aribo goes missing too often”.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
And Aribo clearly had bags of potential that he’s gone on to fulfill elsewhere as he’s matured. But there is no reason why, for example, Fraser, who’s already scored three in eight appearances, can’t be as important as Joe was four years ago.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
You’re looking at that 18/19 team especially, with rose tinted hindsight. Go look back at some post match threads from early in that season where we didn’t get three points and you’ll see comments like “Taylor isn’t physical enough to get us promoted”, “Aribo goes missing too often”.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
And Aribo clearly had bags of potential that he’s gone on to fulfill elsewhere as he’s matured. But there is no reason why, for example, Fraser, who’s already scored three in eight appearances, can’t be as important as Joe was four years ago.
That team lacked a LB in the first half of the season, but had a quality strike partnership and Championship quality CBs, on Championship wages...
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
You’re looking at that 18/19 team especially, with rose tinted hindsight. Go look back at some post match threads from early in that season where we didn’t get three points and you’ll see comments like “Taylor isn’t physical enough to get us promoted”, “Aribo goes missing too often”.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
And Aribo clearly had bags of potential that he’s gone on to fulfill elsewhere as he’s matured. But there is no reason why, for example, Fraser, who’s already scored three in eight appearances, can’t be as important as Joe was four years ago.
That team lacked a LB in the first half of the season, but had a quality strike partnership and Championship quality CBs, on Championship wages...
The jury was still out on Taylor and Grant until October ish - Grant had previously flopped when thrown in too young but had recently shown promise on loan in League Two. Taylor had signed for free from Wimbledon and had yet to win over certain sections of the fanbase - some calling him lightweight etc.
Near enough everyone rated Bauer and he’s better than anything we have today, that’s very true but both Naby and Pearce had their detractors at the time. They both proved their worth over the course of the season. There’s no reason why the likes of O’Connell, even Egbo and Thomas who we haven’t seen yet, can’t do the same.
I hand on heart believe the team isn’t as far away as everyone thinks we are. Comfortable top half, add a couple of pieces and we’re promotion candidates. I’m as frustrated as everyone else that we didn’t add those pieces during the summer window, especially as there is one glaring hole in a key position.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
You’re looking at that 18/19 team especially, with rose tinted hindsight. Go look back at some post match threads from early in that season where we didn’t get three points and you’ll see comments like “Taylor isn’t physical enough to get us promoted”, “Aribo goes missing too often”.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
And Aribo clearly had bags of potential that he’s gone on to fulfill elsewhere as he’s matured. But there is no reason why, for example, Fraser, who’s already scored three in eight appearances, can’t be as important as Joe was four years ago.
Aribo is a different class to Fraser. Dobson isn’t as good as Cullen or Bielik for example. There’s nothing rose tinted about that team compared to what we’ve got. We had KAG for half of that season as well. I think that team finished on 80+ points that year, a great achievement.
We didn’t start that well, similar to this year, but I don’t see the building blocks of a team capable of getting anywhere near that sort of points total this year. We’ve not played well since Plymouth, were all over the shop in the first 45 y’day according to reports, and I don’t really see how it changes given as you’ve pointed out, Stockley isn’t the same player he was in the first 6 months. Where will the goals and the wins come from?
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
You’re looking at that 18/19 team especially, with rose tinted hindsight. Go look back at some post match threads from early in that season where we didn’t get three points and you’ll see comments like “Taylor isn’t physical enough to get us promoted”, “Aribo goes missing too often”.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
And Aribo clearly had bags of potential that he’s gone on to fulfill elsewhere as he’s matured. But there is no reason why, for example, Fraser, who’s already scored three in eight appearances, can’t be as important as Joe was four years ago.
Aribo is a different class to Fraser. Dobson isn’t as good as Cullen or Bielik for example. There’s nothing rose tinted about that team compared to what we’ve got. We had KAG for half of that season as well. I think that team finished on 80+ points that year, a great achievement.
We didn’t start that well, similar to this year, but I don’t see the building blocks of a team capable of getting anywhere near that sort of points total this year. We’ve not played well since Plymouth, were all over the shop in the first 45 y’day according to reports, and I don’t really see how it changes given as you’ve pointed out, Stockley isn’t the same player he was in the first 6 months. Where will the goals and the wins come from?
I suppose the point I’m making is that it wasn’t obvious that those players were as classy as they were until the end of the season, after 46 games and we’d found some form, figured out our best XI etc.
It certainly wasn’t obvious to people in the post-match views threads of our draws with Accrington and Fleetwood, or losses to Scunthorpe and Coventry.
- “Uneventful, flat, lack of any inspiration, lack of anyone able to get on the ball, lack of shape, lack of imagination, lack of hope. Until any of that changes, mid table is the very best we can hope for.”
- “Only 10 points behind the leaders.”
- “Couldnt get more mid-table then that!”
- “with no money and begging for cast offs with no SMT mid table is a stretch target”
- “1 point from 3 games against luton, Scunthorpe and Coventry is simply not good enough, and 9 goals conceded in 3 games is absolutely pathetic. We don't play next week, then we have Barnsley so we could be a long way off the top sides in a fortnights time.”
- “Absolute smash and grab . There was only one team in at 1-0 but sadly we’ve become a team who can’t defend and we won’t go anywhere because of it .”
- “Wheels have come off a bit. Defence is going to be our problem all season. I’d take sixth now.”
- “Oh well, there’s always next season.”
I’m not saying we are currently good enough to match what became of our eventual promotion sides - but we’d absolutely give the team of Aug-Oct 2018 a decent game.
Primarily I believe we’re lacking a talisman up front that could put us over the edge. The point I’m trying to make here is that even promotion teams aren’t immune from bad runs of form, especially early in a season with a new manager.
I also dispute that we are no better than mid table fodder and some even saying relegation candidates couldn’t be further from the truth IMO.
There is still plenty of time for the likes of Fraser, Payne, McGrandles, Kirk, Egbo, Wollacott etc to prove themselves as this year’s heroes. They’ve all proved they’re good enough elsewhere.
This set of post match views against Rochdale from October 2018 is even more interesting. Cullen, Aribo, Bielik, Taylor and Grant all played in this game btw.
- “Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. On paper we should finish top six. But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. Fuck knows what happens next next. ”
- “Watched on ifollow absolute pathetic performance. Rochdale closing everything down quickly yet we try and play it from the back everytime and putting ourselves under pressure. Shockingly shit short corners by Cullen. Everyone of them looked crap today.”
- “13th in league one is shocking . Losing to Rochdale is scandalous .”
This set of post match views against Rochdale from October 2018 is even more interesting. Cullen, Aribo, Bielik, Taylor and Grant all played in this game btw.
- “Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. On paper we should finish top six. But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. Fuck knows what happens next next. ”
- “Watched on ifollow absolute pathetic performance. Rochdale closing everything down quickly yet we try and play it from the back everytime and putting ourselves under pressure. Shockingly shit short corners by Cullen. Everyone of them looked crap today.”
- “13th in league one is shocking . Losing to Rochdale is scandalous .”
Good points. I knew we started badly, but thought we’d got into the groove by October.
I’m just not confident. As you say, we aren’t/don’t have any sort of finisher in the mould of Taylor/KAG. That’s not going to correct itself. Leaburn has started brightly, but you can’t rely/put the pressure on him, not at the stage he’s at. He’s probably going to be more effective coming off the bench, but given how poor we’ve been, he comes on with us needing something.
Aneke needs to be discounted because we’ve got no idea when he’ll play, for what period of time and how reliable he’ll be.
Then outside of that, I’m not convinced CBT and JRS will be consistently reliable. Both show promise, but CBT isn’t refined.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
The chances we did create RS messed them up and I am miffed as to what you saw yesterday to suggest ML is improving rapidly, did I miss something as he was not on for that long?
As I said above RS & ML are young kids learning their trade, they should not have the weight and expectations on their shoulders expecting them to fire us to promotion or top six.
Two young kids, a cripple & Stockley.............................................mid table at best.
At the same stage in 2018 as now (after 9 games) we were 6th with 17 points, 6 better than now
We then stuttered a bit, so that after Rochdale (15 games) yes we were 13th on 22 points, but 5 points off the playoffs, and 8 clear of relegation, having played a game fewer than most of the other teams.
I will be very happy if we have 22 points after 15 games, considering that we currently have 11 after 9 games...
Not good enough for top six with our current state, which is short of where we should be as a club. Last season I thought we had 3-5 players capable of playing an important part of a promotion side, this season I think we have 7-9 of them.
Looking at the previous two seasons where we got 59 points last year, and 75 points the year before (with a strong run under Adkins to end it), I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up with 65-70 points this campaign and end up in 8th, 9th or 10th.
If (and the summer window didn’t promise much) we can bring in a couple of Garner’s targets in January, there’s no reason why we couldn’t push on and readjust the target upwards by 5-10 points.
As long as we stay in touch with the top six until the next window, there’s still something to play for.
If we’re not beating the likes of Cambridge, FGR and Fleetwood and another dozen clubs in this division more times than not then we know the club is underperforming, given the disparity in resources. I have no idea why we would settle for that.
Not sure anyone would settle for that. Realistic solutions as to what we could do to improve things would be welcome, though.
All very well telling an owner he should splash the cash but not that practical when he is looking at the bigger picture - his business's future in the current economic climate.
A simple and obvious wish to meet our expectations and entitlements, is to encourage him to sell to a party with no such financial concerns. Or maybe rustle up some investors? Ideas, anyone?
As I said, it's easy to tell others what they should do for our needs and wants.
And don't think for one minute I am not totally pee'd off with the current situation but there's bugger all I can do to effectively change it.
You’re missing the point. The above isn’t about spending more money - the point is that the club isn’t spending money efficiently, as it wasn’t under Duchatelet. That can be the manager’s fault or the owner’s but if you have, say, twice the playing budget of the opposition then you should beat them more often than not. If the owner claims to have the fourth highest budget there’s no excuse for finishing in the bottom half. You should be able to compete for promotion. If you can’t, something is wrong.
It has nothing to do with “entitlement”, it is common sense, and if Charlton fail to challenge for promotion the business will continue to shrink and the owner will be forced to subsidise it more. As for what we can do about it, the first thing is not deny the problem by “settling” for underperformance. But this is a message board not a board meeting.
Thank you for your opinions. Not sure about the lecture, though.
At the same stage in 2018 as now (after 9 games) we were 6th with 17 points, 6 better than now
We then stuttered a bit, so that after Rochdale (15 games) yes we were 13th on 22 points, but 5 points off the playoffs, and 8 clear of relegation, having played a game fewer than most of the other teams.
I will be very happy if we have 22 points after 15 games, considering that we currently have 11 after 9 games...
In 2018, we were 14th after five games and then won four in a row against teams who finished in the bottom third: 17th, 19th, 21st and 24th. Another flat six games followed and we were back in the bottom half. It took us a third of that season to really find any groove.
I’m not saying we are as good as that team ended up being. First issue is that I don’t see us winning as many games as we did in the second half of that season without serious/lucky January additions.
Focusing on this season by comparison, we won’t know how good our early opponents have been this season until May - the only team we’ve played so far that I’m confident will be in the bottom third this time around is Forest Green.
Everyone else we’ve played is showing they have enough to be competitive against not just us, but other teams too.
It’s unfortunate that we don’t get an extended run of games against weaker sides until November when we face Burton, Port Vale, Cheltenham, Morecambe and Bristol Rovers all in a row through to Christmas. You might see the Exeter game rearranged for that stretch too.
That run of games could decide the direction of the rest of our season.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
Saw what a promotion teams was like in 18/19, but wasn’t going to very many matches before 2015. This team isn’t as good in many ways, and I don’t think playoffs are likely, as we’ll pick up injuries. However if we can stay in touch l, say top 10, there’s always a chance that we could strengthen the squad in the Jan window, and find a suitable striker that could make a difference. But that’s an outside shot. Can’t really see it happening, but obviously hope it will.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
The chances we did create RS messed them up and I am miffed as to what you saw yesterday to suggest ML is improving rapidly, did I miss something as he was not on for that long?
As I said above RS & ML are young kids learning their trade, they should not have the weight and expectations on their shoulders expecting them to fire us to promotion or top six.
Two young kids, a cripple & Stockley.............................................mid table at best.
By ‘ML is improving rapidly’ I meant since last season, when he was doing well, but behind Kanu and Burstow. His first touch was better yesterday than it was against FGR, but I guess at that age consistency is going to be elusive.
But let’s not get too hung up on age. He’s a strapping lad, and there are players of his age playing at a higher level than he is. Arsenal brought a 15 year old for his debut today for example. Not saying Miles should be starting necessarily, but he can certainly be useful off the bench.
If we’re not beating the likes of Cambridge, FGR and Fleetwood and another dozen clubs in this division more times than not then we know the club is underperforming, given the disparity in resources. I have no idea why we would settle for that.
Not sure anyone would settle for that. Realistic solutions as to what we could do to improve things would be welcome, though.
All very well telling an owner he should splash the cash but not that practical when he is looking at the bigger picture - his business's future in the current economic climate.
A simple and obvious wish to meet our expectations and entitlements, is to encourage him to sell to a party with no such financial concerns. Or maybe rustle up some investors? Ideas, anyone?
As I said, it's easy to tell others what they should do for our needs and wants.
And don't think for one minute I am not totally pee'd off with the current situation but there's bugger all I can do to effectively change it.
You’re missing the point. The above isn’t about spending more money - the point is that the club isn’t spending money efficiently, as it wasn’t under Duchatelet. That can be the manager’s fault or the owner’s but if you have, say, twice the playing budget of the opposition then you should beat them more often than not. If the owner claims to have the fourth highest budget there’s no excuse for finishing in the bottom half. You should be able to compete for promotion. If you can’t, something is wrong.
It has nothing to do with “entitlement”, it is common sense, and if Charlton fail to challenge for promotion the business will continue to shrink and the owner will be forced to subsidise it more. As for what we can do about it, the first thing is not deny the problem by “settling” for underperformance. But this is a message board not a board meeting.
Thank you for your opinions. Not sure about the lecture, though.
10 pts from 9 games. Extrapolate that out over a season and that’s pure, unadulterated league one consolidationism. Nothing’s changed from last season other than some new faces. Today those that blithely cling to hope talk of Egbo as a new face that might make a difference. We do this time and time again. Delusion takes over our senses, if draws became wins, the second half showed more promise. We’re exactly where we were this time a year ago, it’s the same jigsaw with the pieces arranged in a different way.
We try and pick the positives out of 2 consecutive 1-1 draws with FGR and Fleetwood. How many times have we played Fleetwood since 2016? That tells you all you need to know
If you can’t take the positives out of games like the last two what’s the point? Yes, we’re mid table league one fodder, and that isn’t good enough based on our history and ground, but I still look for signs of improvement, or else I’d end up losing the will to live.
Mind you, that first half. 😩
Anyway, it ups the excitement levels, knowing these are all ‘must win’ matches. Presumably our season is over as we’ve failed to win four of them.
And how the hell are we only three points off the playoffs!?
What positives have you taken or seen from the last two games then?
Not many if I’m honest, but…
The fact that we’re creating chances, even in games we’re not playing well in. Payne and Fraser showing they might be able to form a decent midfield combo. Egbo looking quality on his debut. Leaburn is improving rapidly.
I can’t help but look for positives. It’s just my nature.
But overall it’s looking grim, and because of the thinness of our squad we’ll struggle to pick up wins. However, and here comes the happy clappy bit, with a fully fit squad I think we’ll make the play offs.
But of course we won’t have a fully fit squad. And therefore the January window will be key.
I respect the optimism but I have to disagree. Stockley in that front 3, even CBT and JRS aren’t going to be consistent enough.
The thing I can’t get, is that you saw what a promotion team looked like in 2011/12 and 18/19, further back if you saw 97/98, and 99/00. You can’t honestly say you think this squad fully fit is on those levels?
Where’s our Mendonca, Lyle Taylor, Yann Kermorgant. Who’s our Aribo? Our Rhoys Wiggins? I could go on.
You’re looking at that 18/19 team especially, with rose tinted hindsight. Go look back at some post match threads from early in that season where we didn’t get three points and you’ll see comments like “Taylor isn’t physical enough to get us promoted”, “Aribo goes missing too often”.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
And Aribo clearly had bags of potential that he’s gone on to fulfill elsewhere as he’s matured. But there is no reason why, for example, Fraser, who’s already scored three in eight appearances, can’t be as important as Joe was four years ago.
If we’re not beating the likes of Cambridge, FGR and Fleetwood and another dozen clubs in this division more times than not then we know the club is underperforming, given the disparity in resources. I have no idea why we would settle for that.
Not sure anyone would settle for that. Realistic solutions as to what we could do to improve things would be welcome, though.
All very well telling an owner he should splash the cash but not that practical when he is looking at the bigger picture - his business's future in the current economic climate.
A simple and obvious wish to meet our expectations and entitlements, is to encourage him to sell to a party with no such financial concerns. Or maybe rustle up some investors? Ideas, anyone?
As I said, it's easy to tell others what they should do for our needs and wants.
And don't think for one minute I am not totally pee'd off with the current situation but there's bugger all I can do to effectively change it.
You’re missing the point. The above isn’t about spending more money - the point is that the club isn’t spending money efficiently, as it wasn’t under Duchatelet. That can be the manager’s fault or the owner’s but if you have, say, twice the playing budget of the opposition then you should beat them more often than not. If the owner claims to have the fourth highest budget there’s no excuse for finishing in the bottom half. You should be able to compete for promotion. If you can’t, something is wrong.
It has nothing to do with “entitlement”, it is common sense, and if Charlton fail to challenge for promotion the business will continue to shrink and the owner will be forced to subsidise it more. As for what we can do about it, the first thing is not deny the problem by “settling” for underperformance. But this is a message board not a board meeting.
Thank you for your opinions. Not sure about the lecture, though.
How is that a lecture?!
Not sure why are you concerned but I will indulge you.
Presenting opinion as fact, as well as telling someone they have missed THE point, rather than MY point, plus all the further statements as if gospel, is lecturing. Add to that the repetition of 'settling' for underperformance, when nobody is, one could think this was a council chamber, not a message board. Neither offers any solutions but there is noise.
This set of post match views against Rochdale from October 2018 is even more interesting. Cullen, Aribo, Bielik, Taylor and Grant all played in this game btw.
- “Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. On paper we should finish top six. But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. Fuck knows what happens next next. ”
- “Watched on ifollow absolute pathetic performance. Rochdale closing everything down quickly yet we try and play it from the back everytime and putting ourselves under pressure. Shockingly shit short corners by Cullen. Everyone of them looked crap today.”
- “13th in league one is shocking . Losing to Rochdale is scandalous .”
Good points. I knew we started badly, but thought we’d got into the groove by October.
I’m just not confident. As you say, we aren’t/don’t have any sort of finisher in the mould of Taylor/KAG. That’s not going to correct itself. Leaburn has started brightly, but you can’t rely/put the pressure on him, not at the stage he’s at. He’s probably going to be more effective coming off the bench, but given how poor we’ve been, he comes on with us needing something.
Aneke needs to be discounted because we’ve got no idea when he’ll play, for what period of time and how reliable he’ll be.
Then outside of that, I’m not convinced CBT and JRS will be consistently reliable. Both show promise, but CBT isn’t refined.
The balance seems very far off for me
When we signed JRS I watched 2 or 3 videos of him & even at youth level he looked a bit erratic, great skill & got some great goals but some of his finishing was quite wild, throw him into mens football & he's going to struggle at times, again recruitment has let us down really. It's too much to be relying on JRS & Leaburn at 18yo , CBT is a bit older & if he was more composed he'd be a danger. (& probably not playing for us)
I am still looking at the positives which are getting harder to find by the game. However, with only two losses we aren't easy to beat, but we will all agree the lack of firepower in front of goal is why we are not winning. We need another striker but that won't happen until at least January so we have no choice but to go with what we have, and despite a bad run of form we are still only 3pts off 6th. If, and it does seem a big if, we can get Aneke back on the bench sooner rather than later and he can replicate his past goal scoring form at this levet things could change. We all know he can score goals from the bench and if (that if again) he had of been available already I am sure he would have chipped in with a couple of goals, and those two goals could have been worth 4pts and a current top sixth place. I am writing off an automatic spot as we are simply not good enough, and my hope of a play off spot is diminishing but get our injured players back and all is not lost.....yet!
I think 8th to 12th is realistic for us basd on what I have seen. I don't feel that is optimistic in any way. At this evel we are not far of but we might as well be.
I am still looking at the positives which are getting harder to find by the game. However, with only two losses we aren't easy to beat, but we will all agree the lack of firepower in front of goal is why we are not winning. We need another striker but that won't happen until at least January so we have no choice but to go with what we have, and despite a bad run of form we are still only 3pts off 6th. If, and it does seem a big if, we can get Aneke back on the bench sooner rather than later and he can replicate his past goal scoring form at this levet things could change. We all know he can score goals from the bench and if (that if again) he had of been available already I am sure he would have chipped in with a couple of goals, and those two goals could have been worth 4pts and a current top sixth place. I am writing off an automatic spot as we are simply not good enough, and my hope of a play off spot is diminishing but get our injured players back and all is not lost.....yet!
This set of post match views against Rochdale from October 2018 is even more interesting. Cullen, Aribo, Bielik, Taylor and Grant all played in this game btw.
- “Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. On paper we should finish top six. But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. Fuck knows what happens next next. ”
- “Watched on ifollow absolute pathetic performance. Rochdale closing everything down quickly yet we try and play it from the back everytime and putting ourselves under pressure. Shockingly shit short corners by Cullen. Everyone of them looked crap today.”
- “13th in league one is shocking . Losing to Rochdale is scandalous .”
Good points. I knew we started badly, but thought we’d got into the groove by October.
I’m just not confident. As you say, we aren’t/don’t have any sort of finisher in the mould of Taylor/KAG. That’s not going to correct itself. Leaburn has started brightly, but you can’t rely/put the pressure on him, not at the stage he’s at. He’s probably going to be more effective coming off the bench, but given how poor we’ve been, he comes on with us needing something.
Aneke needs to be discounted because we’ve got no idea when he’ll play, for what period of time and how reliable he’ll be.
Then outside of that, I’m not convinced CBT and JRS will be consistently reliable. Both show promise, but CBT isn’t refined.
The balance seems very far off for me
When we signed JRS I watched 2 or 3 videos of him & even at youth level he looked a bit erratic, great skill & got some great goals but some of his finishing was quite wild, throw him into mens football & he's going to struggle at times, again recruitment has let us down really. It's too much to be relying on JRS & Leaburn at 18yo , CBT is a bit older & if he was more composed he'd be a danger. (& probably not playing for us)
JRS is a goalscorer and continues to get good chances. He gets on the end of them and also creates them for himself. Even a player scoring 25-30 goals can’t score in every game.
As long as he’s a regular all season he’s on track for getting into double figures.
He’ll know what he needs to work on and like we saw with Aribo I wouldn’t be surprised to see him become more composed and consistent as the season goes on.
I’d really like us to go to 442 tried this 433 and I don’t think it works in this division although it’s worked better than under Adkinsf.I think our squad will be more suited to 442. When leaburn came on with stockley we looked a lot better today. thought mcCrappy had his best game today but I’d sonner have caskey on bench than risk mcCrappy getting injured warming up or something.
If it doesn't work in this division why do teams keep getting promoted playing it. It hasn't, yet, worked for us.
There is a big difference.
Yes I do mean best performance by him not playing Mcgrandles can’t see why we signed him.
These teams that got promoted playing 433 did they have a stockley or leaburn in the middle.meaning 6foot plus target striker. I very much doubt they did.
Comments
At the beginning of the season when we kicked off and again when we didn't get a natural attacking left back or a forward in the window.
This must be clear to every cafc supporter/critic, Garner, Gallen, Sandgaard's etc.
The Emperor's new clothes has left us stark naked.
After Egbo...don't overlook Chin's tenacity and ability to get forward when played on the right hand side.
TBH, I'm not sure that I understand either but after a 20 hour day yesterday, and now watching our Sky recorded coverage of yesterday's triumph in Nottingham, I guess I'm not at my best this afternoon.
Mea culpa, CE.
Yes I do mean best performance by him not playing Mcgrandles can’t see why we signed him.
They’re only held in such high regard because of the run the team put together in the second half of the season. And ultimately being good enough to win when it mattered at Wembley.
We could do with a talisman up front, that’s clear to everyone. Stockley’s gone off the boil and isn’t the same force he was during his first six months at the club.
Near enough everyone rated Bauer and he’s better than anything we have today, that’s very true but both Naby and Pearce had their detractors at the time. They both proved their worth over the course of the season. There’s no reason why the likes of O’Connell, even Egbo and Thomas who we haven’t seen yet, can’t do the same.
I hand on heart believe the team isn’t as far away as everyone thinks we are. Comfortable top half, add a couple of pieces and we’re promotion candidates. I’m as frustrated as everyone else that we didn’t add those pieces during the summer window, especially as there is one glaring hole in a key position.
We didn’t start that well, similar to this year, but I don’t see the building blocks of a team capable of getting anywhere near that sort of points total this year. We’ve not played well since Plymouth, were all over the shop in the first 45 y’day according to reports, and I don’t really see how it changes given as you’ve pointed out, Stockley isn’t the same player he was in the first 6 months. Where will the goals and the wins come from?
https://londonnewsonline.co.uk/four-takeaways-from-charltons-1-1-draw-at-fleetwood-middle-of-the-road-addicks-draw-again/
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/82990/charlton-v-fleetwood-sat-25-august-2018-post-match-views/p1
- “Only 10 points behind the leaders.”
- “Couldnt get more mid-table then that!”
- “with no money and begging for cast offs with no SMT mid table is a stretch target”
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/83433/post-match-views-charlton-v-coventry/p1
- “1 point from 3 games against luton, Scunthorpe and Coventry is simply not good enough, and 9 goals conceded in 3 games is absolutely pathetic. We don't play next week, then we have Barnsley so we could be a long way off the top sides in a fortnights time.”
- “Absolute smash and grab . There was only one team in at 1-0 but sadly we’ve become a team who can’t defend and we won’t go anywhere because of it .”
- “Wheels have come off a bit. Defence is going to be our problem all season. I’d take sixth now.”
- “Oh well, there’s always next season.”
I’m not saying we are currently good enough to match what became of our eventual promotion sides - but we’d absolutely give the team of Aug-Oct 2018 a decent game.
https://forum.charltonlife.com/discussion/83630/rochdale-v-charlton-post-match-thread-sat-27-oct-2018/p1
- “Massive reality check for those who think we are going up. On paper we should finish top six. But I've said it before this lot are mentally weak and we are where we are. Fuck knows what happens next next. ”
- “Watched on ifollow absolute pathetic performance. Rochdale closing everything down quickly yet we try and play it from the back everytime and putting ourselves under pressure. Shockingly shit short corners by Cullen. Everyone of them looked crap today.”
- “13th in league one is shocking . Losing to Rochdale is scandalous .”
Aneke needs to be discounted because we’ve got no idea when he’ll play, for what period of time and how reliable he’ll be.
Then outside of that, I’m not convinced CBT and JRS will be consistently reliable. Both show promise, but CBT isn’t refined.
As I said above RS & ML are young kids learning their trade, they should not have the weight and expectations on their shoulders expecting them to fire us to promotion or top six.
Two young kids, a cripple & Stockley.............................................mid table at best.
We then stuttered a bit, so that after Rochdale (15 games) yes we were 13th on 22 points, but 5 points off the playoffs, and 8 clear of relegation, having played a game fewer than most of the other teams.
I will be very happy if we have 22 points after 15 games, considering that we currently have 11 after 9 games...
Looking at the previous two seasons where we got 59 points last year, and 75 points the year before (with a strong run under Adkins to end it), I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up with 65-70 points this campaign and end up in 8th, 9th or 10th.
If (and the summer window didn’t promise much) we can bring in a couple of Garner’s targets in January, there’s no reason why we couldn’t push on and readjust the target upwards by 5-10 points.
In 2018, we were 14th after five games and then won four in a row against teams who finished in the bottom third: 17th, 19th, 21st and 24th. Another flat six games followed and we were back in the bottom half. It took us a third of that season to really find any groove.
I’m not saying we are as good as that team ended up being. First issue is that I don’t see us winning as many games as we did in the second half of that season without serious/lucky January additions.
Focusing on this season by comparison, we won’t know how good our early opponents have been this season until May - the only team we’ve played so far that I’m confident will be in the bottom third this time around is Forest Green.
It’s unfortunate that we don’t get an extended run of games against weaker sides until November when we face Burton, Port Vale, Cheltenham, Morecambe and Bristol Rovers all in a row through to Christmas. You might see the Exeter game rearranged for that stretch too.
Presenting opinion as fact, as well as telling someone they have missed THE point, rather than MY point, plus all the further statements as if gospel, is lecturing.
Add to that the repetition of 'settling' for underperformance, when nobody is, one could think this was a council chamber, not a message board. Neither offers any solutions but there is noise.
We need another striker but that won't happen until at least January so we have no choice but to go with what we have, and despite a bad run of form we are still only 3pts off 6th.
If, and it does seem a big if, we can get Aneke back on the bench sooner rather than later and he can replicate his past goal scoring form at this levet things could change. We all know he can score goals from the bench and if (that if again) he had of been available already I am sure he would have chipped in with a couple of goals, and those two goals could have been worth 4pts and a current top sixth place.
I am writing off an automatic spot as we are simply not good enough, and my hope of a play off spot is diminishing but get our injured players back and all is not lost.....yet!
As long as he’s a regular all season he’s on track for getting into double figures.
He’ll know what he needs to work on and like we saw with Aribo I wouldn’t be surprised to see him become more composed and consistent as the season goes on.