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Sorry but Jackson has to go.

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  • Scoham said:
    I think TS caused the recruitment issues so the question may be how much he has learnt from that.
    And what do you believe the main issues were? We know we're not the highest paying club when it comes to agents, especially for our relative size in this league.
    Naivety about the market and belief he could buck it. One thing I was told early on was that the big PL clubs would not loan to Charlton because of TS not wanting to contribute enough.
    Good for Thomas. You don’t need premier league youths to get out of this league and I respect him for standing firm on contributions if that is the case. 

    If we are gonna develop their players with competitive football why should we be putting up significant wages. Football pyramid scheme is shite atm and he should be applauded for that stance, providing he strengthens us with our own contracted players who are competitive enough 
    We did last time 
  • Scoham said:
    TS himself said 2-5 permanent and 5 or 6 loans so that’s a minimum of 7 signings. It’s enough to make a big difference in results even if we’d like to hear something more ambitious.
    But he said something along the lines that the loans would be squad fillers as opposed to our best players.
    It makes sense if Airman says TS doesn't want to pay what the Premier League clubs want. 
  • I don't like the concept of squad fillers. 
  • I don't like the concept of squad fillers. 
    Generally agree, I see the aim every summer largely being to let our weakest players go and replace them better first team players. We need to let some our squad players go and the likes of Gilbey, Morgan etc to become back ups.
  • edited April 2022
    Scoham said:
    I don't like the concept of squad fillers. 
    Generally agree, I see the aim every summer largely being to let our weakest players go and replace them better first team players. We need to let some our squad players go and the likes of Gilbey, Morgan etc to become back ups.
    Yes but even then. Gilbey and Morgan should still be able to earn their places along with an expectation that they can. 
  • The Sandgaard discussion is interesting. I don’t think for one minute his Charlton heart isn’t in the right place. It’s also worth remembering that when he bought us that the heart, guts and soul had been ripped out of the club over a period of years. There was no management structure of note in place and the club was functioning week to week and desperate. There was no CEO in situ and not too much to build on. TS should have made appointing a CEO his number one priority but his naivety and perhaps enthusiasm got the better of him. We’re now still if not rudderless certainly not 100% focused on direction. The appointments behind the scenes of Roddy and Mumford have been mixed and in the short time TS has owned the club he’s had three managers. It seems to me not much is stable and that’s what’s needed. Stability, front and back of house. I don’t see either happening quickly enough to give me encouragement for next season. We really need a hands on CEO to get things right. TS lacks the football nous and he can’t do that job from Colorado. Give Jackson support this summer and a run at next season but should that fail and he’s replaced I’d take surgery to more than just JJ and put in place a total revamp of the club’s management structures. I think another season of disappointing results might be needed to convince Thomas.
    Some valid points here, Shooters.
    But if TS had appointed a CEO on Day 1, who would he have gone to for advice?
    Roddy seemed to have fingers in many Charlton pies at the start of Sandguaard's reign, but the wheels of Roddy's empire seem to have fallen off, with GR now relegated to a relatively minor role.
    If TS had sought advice from the wrong person in appointing a CEO, we could have had another member of staff on the 'clear out' list. And be in the same or a worse position as we are now.
    Sandgaard clearly needs advice from football people to succeed, but has to chose very carefully who he can trust to provide that advice. Which may provide one reason why is son is involved.
    With the skakes gaining in height, Sandgaard is not in a very enviable position, imo.


    He resigned mate. Now works for FIFA 
  • Scoham said:
    I don't like the concept of squad fillers. 
    Generally agree, I see the aim every summer largely being to let our weakest players go and replace them better first team players. We need to let some our squad players go and the likes of Gilbey, Morgan etc to become back ups.
    Yes but even then. Gilbey and Morgan should still be able to earn their places along with an expectation that they can. 
    Of course. If a player is that poor that they have no chance then we should find a way to move them on.
  • Morecambe drew with Portsmouth today.
  • edited April 2022
    .


  • th0rryy said:
    I am still pro Jackson.

    I think that the alternatives would be, overall, expensive for any actual benefit and that spend could be better spent on improving the squad. Whilst JJ is comparatively inexperienced, he inherited a squad that was not one that was built and set up for his current tactical system. The glimpses that this squad has shown (and it's a hugely underperforming one, which I do blame the players more than the management) against the better sides in this division, I think, that it would serve us better going forward. JJ has also shown he can motivate players to play for the shirt, and with some astute signings, we can start pushing on with this system.

    Most of this squad went from the LB diamond to w/e NA tried to the JJ 5-3-2. Many of them are not very football smart. They don't, for example, cover the space behind CB-T when he pushes forward. They don't defend the edge of the box well at all. They don't tackle nearly enough when teams run at them, aside from Dobson. Some of this can be trained, but a lot of this is just weak footballing brains of certain players. JJ deserves a summer of getting a number of players in to play the way he wants. The sporadic results make me doubt it when I am sat there when we are 0-2 at home against relegation-threatened, f***ing Morecambe, but when you sit and think about it, we got schooled by arguably one of the best strikers in the league and punished by some more clinical finishing. Mistakes and defensive stability has been a problem all season - again, I think this is more the players than the management, particularly in the last few months when there are several players out there who simply don't care. You can't train a dog who has no desire to learn.

    JJ has done enough to earn a summer and money to spend. Replacing him now/soon would be incredibly reckless. This season has been a write-off, albeit for the mild positives of Dobson and CB-T. We won't have the rebuild of yesteryear, but a few key signings could turn the ship. It's all about next season now and setting us up for success. If JJ has a poor first 10 games next season, then we're arguably in the same boat as now, but he is deserving of a chance. He bleeds Charlton, and that goes a hell of a long way for me.

    Absolutely no guarantee that we bring in another manager that all our problems are solved. The core of our issues lie in the squad. Have a little faith.
    If he took over and knew he didn’t have the players to suit his preferred system, why make it difficult for himself and play the system anyway?, is that what we call clever management ? Or the self destruct button. There is nothing going on around this football team that gives any hope for next season at the moment and that includes the manager I’m afraid. Too many excuses being made because JJ is a Charlton legend, and getting free pass because of it. This club needs as many as possible cleared out and start again. We don’t even have a good foundation to build upon at the moment so we may aswell start off fresh. I’m fed up with excuses for this piss poor season, when all concerned haven’t been good enough for any acceptable amount of time.
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  • edited April 2022
    Gribbo said:
    The Sandgaard discussion is interesting. I don’t think for one minute his Charlton heart isn’t in the right place. It’s also worth remembering that when he bought us that the heart, guts and soul had been ripped out of the club over a period of years. There was no management structure of note in place and the club was functioning week to week and desperate. There was no CEO in situ and not too much to build on. TS should have made appointing a CEO his number one priority but his naivety and perhaps enthusiasm got the better of him. We’re now still if not rudderless certainly not 100% focused on direction. The appointments behind the scenes of Roddy and Mumford have been mixed and in the short time TS has owned the club he’s had three managers. It seems to me not much is stable and that’s what’s needed. Stability, front and back of house. I don’t see either happening quickly enough to give me encouragement for next season. We really need a hands on CEO to get things right. TS lacks the football nous and he can’t do that job from Colorado. Give Jackson support this summer and a run at next season but should that fail and he’s replaced I’d take surgery to more than just JJ and put in place a total revamp of the club’s management structures. I think another season of disappointing results might be needed to convince Thomas.
    Some valid points here, Shooters.
    But if TS had appointed a CEO on Day 1, who would he have gone to for advice?
    Roddy seemed to have fingers in many Charlton pies at the start of Sandguaard's reign, but the wheels of Roddy's empire seem to have fallen off, with GR now relegated to a relatively minor role.
    If TS had sought advice from the wrong person in appointing a CEO, we could have had another member of staff on the 'clear out' list. And be in the same or a worse position as we are now.
    Sandgaard clearly needs advice from football people to succeed, but has to chose very carefully who he can trust to provide that advice. Which may provide one reason why is son is involved.
    With the skakes gaining in height, Sandgaard is not in a very enviable position, imo.


    He resigned mate. Now works for FIFA 
    Think you’ll find he has the same FIFA role he’s had since before he worked at Charlton. He was removed.
  • paulfox said:
    th0rryy said:
    I am still pro Jackson.

    I think that the alternatives would be, overall, expensive for any actual benefit and that spend could be better spent on improving the squad. Whilst JJ is comparatively inexperienced, he inherited a squad that was not one that was built and set up for his current tactical system. The glimpses that this squad has shown (and it's a hugely underperforming one, which I do blame the players more than the management) against the better sides in this division, I think, that it would serve us better going forward. JJ has also shown he can motivate players to play for the shirt, and with some astute signings, we can start pushing on with this system.

    Most of this squad went from the LB diamond to w/e NA tried to the JJ 5-3-2. Many of them are not very football smart. They don't, for example, cover the space behind CB-T when he pushes forward. They don't defend the edge of the box well at all. They don't tackle nearly enough when teams run at them, aside from Dobson. Some of this can be trained, but a lot of this is just weak footballing brains of certain players. JJ deserves a summer of getting a number of players in to play the way he wants. The sporadic results make me doubt it when I am sat there when we are 0-2 at home against relegation-threatened, f***ing Morecambe, but when you sit and think about it, we got schooled by arguably one of the best strikers in the league and punished by some more clinical finishing. Mistakes and defensive stability has been a problem all season - again, I think this is more the players than the management, particularly in the last few months when there are several players out there who simply don't care. You can't train a dog who has no desire to learn.

    JJ has done enough to earn a summer and money to spend. Replacing him now/soon would be incredibly reckless. This season has been a write-off, albeit for the mild positives of Dobson and CB-T. We won't have the rebuild of yesteryear, but a few key signings could turn the ship. It's all about next season now and setting us up for success. If JJ has a poor first 10 games next season, then we're arguably in the same boat as now, but he is deserving of a chance. He bleeds Charlton, and that goes a hell of a long way for me.

    Absolutely no guarantee that we bring in another manager that all our problems are solved. The core of our issues lie in the squad. Have a little faith.
    If he took over and knew he didn’t have the players to suit his preferred system, why make it difficult for himself and play the system anyway?, is that what we call clever management ? Or the self destruct button. There is nothing going on around this football team that gives any hope for next season at the moment and that includes the manager I’m afraid. Too many excuses being made because JJ is a Charlton legend, and getting free pass because of it. This club needs as many as possible cleared out and start again. We don’t even have a good foundation to build upon at the moment so we may aswell start off fresh. I’m fed up with excuses for this piss poor season, when all concerned haven’t been good enough for any acceptable amount of time.
    Bloody hell……….it’s slit your wrists time.😱
  • FAVADDICK said:
    Scoham said:
    FAVADDICK said:
    th0rryy said:
    I am still pro Jackson.

    I think that the alternatives would be, overall, expensive for any actual benefit and that spend could be better spent on improving the squad. Whilst JJ is comparatively inexperienced, he inherited a squad that was not one that was built and set up for his current tactical system. The glimpses that this squad has shown (and it's a hugely underperforming one, which I do blame the players more than the management) against the better sides in this division, I think, that it would serve us better going forward. JJ has also shown he can motivate players to play for the shirt, and with some astute signings, we can start pushing on with this system.

    Most of this squad went from the LB diamond to w/e NA tried to the JJ 5-3-2. Many of them are not very football smart. They don't, for example, cover the space behind CB-T when he pushes forward. They don't defend the edge of the box well at all. They don't tackle nearly enough when teams run at them, aside from Dobson. Some of this can be trained, but a lot of this is just weak footballing brains of certain players. JJ deserves a summer of getting a number of players in to play the way he wants. The sporadic results make me doubt it when I am sat there when we are 0-2 at home against relegation-threatened, f***ing Morecambe, but when you sit and think about it, we got schooled by arguably one of the best strikers in the league and punished by some more clinical finishing. Mistakes and defensive stability has been a problem all season - again, I think this is more the players than the management, particularly in the last few months when there are several players out there who simply don't care. You can't train a dog who has no desire to learn.

    JJ has done enough to earn a summer and money to spend. Replacing him now/soon would be incredibly reckless. This season has been a write-off, albeit for the mild positives of Dobson and CB-T. We won't have the rebuild of yesteryear, but a few key signings could turn the ship. It's all about next season now and setting us up for success. If JJ has a poor first 10 games next season, then we're arguably in the same boat as now, but he is deserving of a chance. He bleeds Charlton, and that goes a hell of a long way for me.

    Absolutely no guarantee that we bring in another manager that all our problems are solved. The core of our issues lie in the squad. Have a little faith.
    You say he inherited a squad that don't fit his system, then surly you play a system that fits the players you have, that's not rocket science 

    I would love to know what players he's motivated as I don't see any off that on the pitch !!!

    And everything you have put in that second paragraph is down to training and the management, you can except the odd mistake but when there happening week in week out something isn't right, most goals against us come from down the wings like you stated, then surly you train to stop that or atleast revert to a formation that stops that, but not us we carry on playing it letting every team we play straight the way through us. 

    Yeah Jackson is charlton I understand that, but he just isn't cut out to be a manager and there is alot better out there, that if we funded properly we could go far with !!!!
    Far too early to write him off as a manager. Some said the same about Powell but we kept him on and won the league. Not saying Jackson will do the same or that TS will support him as much as he needs to, but Jackson shouldn’t be written off. He’s managing a squad that isn’t good enough to be promoted, we need a fairly big rebuild in the summer.
    Do you trust him with a big rebuild, going on the January transfer window, who's going to trust him with any loans the way the 2 have been treated, and thats where we rely on most, all we're going to get is dead wood nobody else wants !!!
    They’re clearly not good enough. 
  • paulfox said:
    th0rryy said:
    I am still pro Jackson.

    I think that the alternatives would be, overall, expensive for any actual benefit and that spend could be better spent on improving the squad. Whilst JJ is comparatively inexperienced, he inherited a squad that was not one that was built and set up for his current tactical system. The glimpses that this squad has shown (and it's a hugely underperforming one, which I do blame the players more than the management) against the better sides in this division, I think, that it would serve us better going forward. JJ has also shown he can motivate players to play for the shirt, and with some astute signings, we can start pushing on with this system.

    Most of this squad went from the LB diamond to w/e NA tried to the JJ 5-3-2. Many of them are not very football smart. They don't, for example, cover the space behind CB-T when he pushes forward. They don't defend the edge of the box well at all. They don't tackle nearly enough when teams run at them, aside from Dobson. Some of this can be trained, but a lot of this is just weak footballing brains of certain players. JJ deserves a summer of getting a number of players in to play the way he wants. The sporadic results make me doubt it when I am sat there when we are 0-2 at home against relegation-threatened, f***ing Morecambe, but when you sit and think about it, we got schooled by arguably one of the best strikers in the league and punished by some more clinical finishing. Mistakes and defensive stability has been a problem all season - again, I think this is more the players than the management, particularly in the last few months when there are several players out there who simply don't care. You can't train a dog who has no desire to learn.

    JJ has done enough to earn a summer and money to spend. Replacing him now/soon would be incredibly reckless. This season has been a write-off, albeit for the mild positives of Dobson and CB-T. We won't have the rebuild of yesteryear, but a few key signings could turn the ship. It's all about next season now and setting us up for success. If JJ has a poor first 10 games next season, then we're arguably in the same boat as now, but he is deserving of a chance. He bleeds Charlton, and that goes a hell of a long way for me.

    Absolutely no guarantee that we bring in another manager that all our problems are solved. The core of our issues lie in the squad. Have a little faith.
    If he took over and knew he didn’t have the players to suit his preferred system, why make it difficult for himself and play the system anyway?, is that what we call clever management ? Or the self destruct button. There is nothing going on around this football team that gives any hope for next season at the moment and that includes the manager I’m afraid. Too many excuses being made because JJ is a Charlton legend, and getting free pass because of it. This club needs as many as possible cleared out and start again. We don’t even have a good foundation to build upon at the moment so we may aswell start off fresh. I’m fed up with excuses for this piss poor season, when all concerned haven’t been good enough for any acceptable amount of time.
    Bloody hell……….it’s slit your wrists time.😱
    Lol!!! Yes you’d think so wouldn’t you🤣, but you obviously get my point. Look there are far more important things in life than football, but in the football context only, Charlton all round is a bit shit at the moment. Believe it or not I’m one to usually find positives, but finding it difficult with us at the moment. However no wrists are even close to sharp edges🤣☹️😜
  • Gribbo said:
    The Sandgaard discussion is interesting. I don’t think for one minute his Charlton heart isn’t in the right place. It’s also worth remembering that when he bought us that the heart, guts and soul had been ripped out of the club over a period of years. There was no management structure of note in place and the club was functioning week to week and desperate. There was no CEO in situ and not too much to build on. TS should have made appointing a CEO his number one priority but his naivety and perhaps enthusiasm got the better of him. We’re now still if not rudderless certainly not 100% focused on direction. The appointments behind the scenes of Roddy and Mumford have been mixed and in the short time TS has owned the club he’s had three managers. It seems to me not much is stable and that’s what’s needed. Stability, front and back of house. I don’t see either happening quickly enough to give me encouragement for next season. We really need a hands on CEO to get things right. TS lacks the football nous and he can’t do that job from Colorado. Give Jackson support this summer and a run at next season but should that fail and he’s replaced I’d take surgery to more than just JJ and put in place a total revamp of the club’s management structures. I think another season of disappointing results might be needed to convince Thomas.
    Some valid points here, Shooters.
    But if TS had appointed a CEO on Day 1, who would he have gone to for advice?
    Roddy seemed to have fingers in many Charlton pies at the start of Sandguaard's reign, but the wheels of Roddy's empire seem to have fallen off, with GR now relegated to a relatively minor role.
    If TS had sought advice from the wrong person in appointing a CEO, we could have had another member of staff on the 'clear out' list. And be in the same or a worse position as we are now.
    Sandgaard clearly needs advice from football people to succeed, but has to chose very carefully who he can trust to provide that advice. Which may provide one reason why is son is involved.
    With the skakes gaining in height, Sandgaard is not in a very enviable position, imo.


    He resigned mate. Now works for FIFA 
    Think you’ll find he has the same FIFA role he’s had since before he worked at Charlton. He was removed.
    Fair enough. Either way he's not employed by the club anymore, which was more the point. Had a feeling he might've jumped before he was pushed, but not got a clue about the politics behind it
  • edited April 2022
    Scoham said:
    I think TS caused the recruitment issues so the question may be how much he has learnt from that.
    And what do you believe the main issues were? We know we're not the highest paying club when it comes to agents, especially for our relative size in this league.
    Naivety about the market and belief he could buck it. One thing I was told early on was that the big PL clubs would not loan to Charlton because of TS not wanting to contribute enough.
    Good for Thomas. You don’t need premier league youths to get out of this league and I respect him for standing firm on contributions if that is the case. 

    If we are gonna develop their players with competitive football why should we be putting up significant wages. Football pyramid scheme is shite atm and he should be applauded for that stance, providing he strengthens us with our own contracted players who are competitive enough 
    I think you’re missing the point. It wasn’t that we didn’t want Premier League loans, it was that we thought we could get them cheaper than the clubs expected. So we didn’t get them.

    I don’t disagree that the system stinks, but you can’t wish it away, just as you can’t fill the ground or break even just by insisting you can. You have to engage with the real world.
    Is this new? Did we pay for the loans of Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik? Going further back, would we have paid for Mavididi and DaSilva?

    My impression is probably clouded by video games (thank you Football Manager) but usually these clubs just need to get their young players first team experience so making a payment towards that loan does seem weird from the outside looking in.

    Is the idea perhaps that if we are paying a contribution towards their wage or a loan fee then we are more likely to play them? Or are these multi million pound profit making clubs really that hard up that they need an extra $1k per week for their 20 year olds?

    Are we charging Wealdstone a fee for Aaron Henry? Billericay for Dylan Gavin?
  • All well and good saying let's bring in another manager, but do you really think the owner has the nous the pick the right man ? 

    Something lacking for sure in the coaching department. The sheer number of back room staff sitting around the dug out astounds me. 

    Too many cooks can spoil the broth springs to mind. 
  • I like Jackson but he’ll never get us promoted as manager
  • Scoham said:
    I think TS caused the recruitment issues so the question may be how much he has learnt from that.
    And what do you believe the main issues were? We know we're not the highest paying club when it comes to agents, especially for our relative size in this league.
    Naivety about the market and belief he could buck it. One thing I was told early on was that the big PL clubs would not loan to Charlton because of TS not wanting to contribute enough.
    Good for Thomas. You don’t need premier league youths to get out of this league and I respect him for standing firm on contributions if that is the case. 

    If we are gonna develop their players with competitive football why should we be putting up significant wages. Football pyramid scheme is shite atm and he should be applauded for that stance, providing he strengthens us with our own contracted players who are competitive enough 
    I think you’re missing the point. It wasn’t that we didn’t want Premier League loans, it was that we thought we could get them cheaper than the clubs expected. So we didn’t get them.

    I don’t disagree that the system stinks, but you can’t wish it away, just as you can’t fill the ground or break even just by insisting you can. You have to engage with the real world.
    Is this new? Did we pay for the loans of Cullen, Gallagher, Bielik? Going further back, would we have paid for Mavididi and DaSilva?

    My impression is probably clouded by video games (thank you Football Manager) but usually these clubs just need to get their young players first team experience so making a payment towards that loan does seem weird from the outside looking in.

    Is the idea perhaps that if we are paying a contribution towards their wage or a loan fee then we are more likely to play them? Or are these multi million pound profit making clubs really that hard up that they need an extra $1k per week for their 20 year olds?

    Are we charging Wealdstone a fee for Aaron Henry? Billericay for Dylan Gavin?
    I dont think it is new... I think the Peterborough chairman a few years ago was calling for EFL teams to boycott signing Premier League players on loan, because the clubs were basically demanding a fee on par with an actual transfer - Guess it helps them to beat FFP in a small way.

    Would go some way to explaining why we've been unable to attract the Cullen / Bielik level of loan signings of late
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  • Who are these Premiership teams making a profit each year 
  • Who are these Premiership teams making a profit each year 
    I think about half the teams in the PL were making a profit pre-pandemic (according to the Athletic). 


  • I think if you look overall the numbers are losses dwarfing the profits …. Even in that one nearly £250m of losses overall for the league … 
  • se9addick said:
    Who are these Premiership teams making a profit each year 
    I think about half the teams in the PL were making a profit pre-pandemic (according to the Athletic). 


    How do clubs get around FFP rules, making these losses?
  • Going wildly OT here, but the Bieliks/Cullens/Gallaghers coming in as loans (and being paid well) are the kinds of players that you want/need to propel you up the table.

    I understand the hesitance to keep doing it when it is not sustainable, but one or two quality ones are fine imho. If you get an outstanding one, they can carry you rapidly up the table, if they are ready. Gallagher was well above those Championship teams - when we won at home to Derby, it was one of the best performances I've seen by someone in the shirt for a while.

    JJ has been here and seen the value of those kind of loans, but not sure about whether he'll throw them in, as he didn't use the lad from Spurs, Nile John, at all. This may breed hesitance from the bigger teams, but it's wholly situational.
  • edited April 2022
    Was there even a standout loanee in League One this year? Nobody springs to mind. The best players in the league have all been perms.
  • Jackson may not have been in charge for the whole season, but he has been part of the coaching staff for several years and so is clearly part of the problem. There is no doubt he is Charlton through and through, but I think he lacks sufficient experience to get us promoted next season. If we are prepared to wait another year then give him longer, but if we want to get promoted next season, sadly, I don't think he is the answer - not sure who is though.
  • Jackson may not have been in charge for the whole season, but he has been part of the coaching staff for several years and so is clearly part of the problem. There is no doubt he is Charlton through and through, but I think he lacks sufficient experience to get us promoted next season. If we are prepared to wait another year then give him longer, but if we want to get promoted next season, sadly, I don't think he is the answer - not sure who is though.
    Powell and Bowyer got us promoted in their first jobs.

    Slade, Adkins and Robinson were all very experienced

    Many of the mangers doing well in this division are in their first or second job.

    Experience as manager shouldn’t be seen as a requirement at this level, looking back at those who got promoted proves that.

    I’d always prefer to see us gamble on a new or up and coming young manager - there’s a chance they’ll be an excellent manager.

    Experienced managers tend to be those stuck at this level like Robinson or those dropping down like Adkins and Slade. Either way there’s a reason they’ve not progressed to a higher level or maintained a career there. Bring in one and they’ll probably be decent but are unlikely to be outstanding.
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!