The lad is short on confidence and trying to play his way back into the side without giving the ball away or having another stinker. He didn't go past his man last night but didn't give the ball away either and did manage to join play. We should give him a break and encourage him to up his game. I am sure there is much more to come.
A lot of assumptions there which are likely to be 99% wrong. But the alternative was to play Gunter who gave away a pen.
More square pegs in round holes. Just like Bowyer before him. Jackson had better learn quick or Sandgaard might be correct in wanting to look elsewhere for a manager.
Of course, results are everything, but if you play a game like that where one team is so dominant, in terms of possession in the attacking third, half-chances created, and after allowing so few chances for the opposition, then eight or nine times out of ten you’ll come away with three points.
Unfortunately, it was our turn to be unlucky. Conceded two questionable goals, refereeing-wise, and never got a break in their penalty area despite a myriad of balls played into it.
Yes, they got a lot of bodies behind the ball, but you need a little luck to get away with defending like that, and last night they got it. Judging by their league position, they haven’t been so lucky very often. Obviously we were tired after recent exertions, and we had some key players on the injury list and a shortage of experienced centre backs, so there was always a chance of a reversal last night.
If it’d been a backs to the wall performance then a point might have felt like a decent outcome, but when the final whistle blew I felt we’d been pretty unlucky.
Kirk and Davison have come in for some way OTT criticism. Kirk played 12 minutes and wasn’t shocking, Davison was pretty ineffective and blasted a chance over the bar with his weak foot, but I don’t believe he was ‘woeful’. He gave 100% as usual, but he is a young, slightly limited player who is improving slowly. With a stronger squad he wouldn’t be starting, but it is what it is. Gunter was weak for the pen (he was definitely fouled), but he wasn’t shocking, and has done ok recently when he was picked.
Slightly concerned about Saturday however, although it looks like Dobson will be available, which is a relief. Lee, Gilbey and Dobson are a key combo right now.
Not sure how ‘monster-y’ Shrewsbury are, but if they’re average up top I’d start Elerewe rather than Gunter.
Onwards and upwards, stay positive, and shouty posts criticising JJ are the the only thing deserving of comments like shocking or woeful ;-)
Obviously quite disappointing to only get a draw even if we was sloppy at times we did dominate the ball possession in their half and create more chances.
But positives to take it's a extra point still on a unbeaten run and a hard working performance.
Bumped into the Gateshead squad at the services they just beat Curzon Ashton so Burger king and Costa was needed, very young squad.
Think people are being very harsh on Kirk personally
Agree, he clearly did get past players and usually found a team mate to pass to.
Where I thought his game fell down big time was after he gave the ball, he struggled to get himself in a useful position to receive it back or draw a defender away so effectively a waste of a player in that area.
He tried but wasn't figuring out how to do it.
Kirk was a little disappointing in that instead of pushing on down the wing he’d stop and let the defenders get back to mass around him as if his intention was to line them up to beat. Sort of reminded me a bit of Mortimer though, albeit in a different sense in that he would beat 3 or 4 players then turn around so he he could try and beat them again, that or he’d lost his sense of direction in the process. I suspect Kirk might be better suited in a more central position instead of out on the wing.
He looked very one dimensional when compared with our other wide options, who've all adapted to Jacko's formation and tactics. And seem more two footed, making them harder to defend against.
Yes he was only on for 12 minutes, but fresh legs against tired defenders ought to cause them more problems.
I think he may have faired better if he wasn't playing with players who are also tired. He's not going to be picking out runs that aren't being made.
For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?
So, we should be comparing Kirk (a young player, a new recruit, recovering from a lack of form and some personal issues who came on for 12 minutes in a league 1 game and looked tidy if unspectacular), to Fairclough, (the player who was so unbelievably outstanding in his substitute appearances for the all conquering Liverpool team from 40 odd years ago that he was known across the country as “super sub”)?
Righto.
Presumably, we should bin off Alex Gilbey too, because, let’s be honest, he’s no Zidane. 🙄
The lad is short on confidence and trying to play his way back into the side without giving the ball away or having another stinker. He didn't go past his man last night but didn't give the ball away either and did manage to join play. We should give him a break and encourage him to up his game. I am sure there is much more to come.
I want him to come good. Personally I just don't see where or how he fits in a team with Lee and Washington. Their heat map will be identical!
For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?
What a stupid comparison.
Telling that he's had to go back 40 years to come up with a name though!
And given that Fairclough used to come off the bench playing for the all-conquering Liverpool team of the late 70s/early 80s against tiring defences on heavy pitches, I reckon I might've bagged a few goals myself - even in my current state!
We can't keep dwelling on past mistakes re recruitment - need to move on and look forwards.
Luckily we've got the January window coming up to rectify all those issues.
I hope you are right but just because JJ is caretaker manager there is nothing to suggest our transfer policy has changed. I got the feeling that Adkins was not as involved as much as he wanted to be re recruitment so something will need to change.
Disappointed because Morecambe are not a good side and doubt there will be many teams below them this season. Still unbeaten but they had what, 3 chances and scored 2 of them so to come away with only a point is frustratin.
I thought the back 3 was a mistake and said so before the game. Would only ever play Gunter at RCB but appreciate with Inniss, Lavelle and Pearce all out, we didn't have much choice. That's got to be an area we are looking at in January.
I thought Clare and Dobson were both superb, Famewo pretty decent. Gilbey and Lee showed glimses of quality, but ultimately ineffective. DJ started brightly and then was non-existent, CBT is perfect to bring on when we need a goal.
Defo need a striker in January. Davison is a 4th choice striker but have definitely seem harsh words towards him over the last 14 hours or so. But if we're playing the formation we are now, we need another option.
So just the two in Jan for me, a CB and a striker. I think that squad would then be good enough to reach the top 6 with JFC hopefully back too, but will need a bit of luck.
Macca is a great shotstopper and even pulled off a cracking assist tonight.
We're unlikely to get promoted with a keeper who never comes for crosses, though, and I've honestly seen enough to know he never will.
I think the genius switch to 3 at the back by Jacko is perfect for dealing with this though. With a Pearce or Innis/Lavelle playing that central role in the back 3 almost as a sweeper you have someone there to attack the ball and clear those ones that the keeper should go for (but in our case doesn't). its not ideal but at least he is consistent in not coming, nothing worse for the defence than a keeper who sometimes comes and sometimes doesn't so you never know what to go for or not.
Macca is a great shotstopper and even pulled off a cracking assist tonight.
We're unlikely to get promoted with a keeper who never comes for crosses, though, and I've honestly seen enough to know he never will.
Except we did with Kiely, never one to come off his line if he could avoid it....
I think you could argue fairly persuasively that aerial dominance is more important for a keeper at any professional level in 2021 than it was in 2001
If anything, I'd say the opposite is true as there are less high punts/crosses these days.
100% agree.
Obviously it helps if you were actually watching football 20 years ago as it gives you greater perspective, rather than playing with Lego or still being in the womb! ;-)
Am I right in saying that Dobson was about to latch onto a shot from a very promising position just as a couple of yards from goal, when the ref blew the final whistle 10 seconds early? Happened so quickly I wasn’t sure.
Am I right in saying that Dobson was about to latch onto a shot from a very promising position just as a couple of yards from goal, when the ref blew the final whistle 10 seconds early? Happened so quickly I wasn’t sure.
Had just entered the box trying to find a gap for a shot.
Think people are being very harsh on Kirk personally
Yup. Not been his biggest fan since he came here, but my seat was level with the edge of the penalty area, so I had a good view of him trying to cut in. Their box was rammed and there was very little space to cross into. All our attacks down the left after Purrington reverted to centre back involved players cutting in on their right. I don’t really see what he could’ve done other than being able to magically beat 2 or 3 players in a tight space. Came on and didn’t shy away from the ball which given how his confidence has been knocked given his time to date here, was good to see.
Definitely a player we should try and put our arm around and build up, rather than put him down at the moment. You never know, may start to shine
You've missed the point. He didn't once attempt to go wide, get behind them and get in a cross or run into the box. Totally predictable, passing the ball sideways or backwards.
I think it shows how much we have come under JJ to see so many of us saying they felt disappointed we didn't come away with all 3 points. I felt the same at the end of the evening, particularly given how we did dominate them for large periods and they were fully backs against the wall for the last 10-15 minutes. Given how much the Plymouth game took out of the team on Saturday, the quick turnaround into this game and the injuries/suspension we have, a point isn't terrible, but just places a spotlight a little more on our weaknesses as a squad.
Some of the younger players are getting some criticism for their performances last night, but I don't think this is fair. Davison is still learning his trade and, imo, gives everything for the shirt - he is not the same threat Stockley is, but is a different player. There's more to come from him, but it's completely unfair to write him off. I think the ideal place for him right now would probably be another loan period, but we lack the options off the bench to do that. I'd like to see Leko return to the team in more of a forward (and not WB role), but I'd say we're probably still another 10+ goal a season striker light as we are now. Davison might get there, but he's just not there yet.
As for the other point of ire here, Kirk is, for me, in a similar boat as Davison. Despite the price tag and associated expectation, the role that was expected of him under Adkins has now changed to the system JJ now employs. He never hit the ground running and has a lot still to learn. With coaching, I think he'll get there, but it's just going to take time. Whilst you could say Kirk probably hasn't given everything in his performances so far, it's a big transition phase for him right now. Arms round him, rather than ragging on him.
Finally, I also disagree with people that suggested Elerewe should have come on instead of Gunter. As much as the Gunter mistake was painful to watch, this wasn't the kind of game to bring in Elerewe imo. I think with all our CBs fit, I think there will be opportunities to bring him in for minutes, but this will need to be managed carefully. Losing CBs to injury seems to be a recurring curse, but that's football.
We keep the unbeaten streak going and go to Shrewsbury still in good form. They played 45mins with 10 men against Sunderland last night, so may well be a little leggy. I still feel positive that we go into every game with the belief we can get 3 points. That feeling was definitely not there under Adkins.
For all the clowns having a crack at Kirk, perhaps bear in mind he was on the pitch for the last 12 minutes.
Twelve minutes.
Seriously.
Ever heard of David Fairclough.. ?
So, we should be comparing Kirk (a young player, a new recruit, recovering from a lack of form and some personal issues who came on for 12 minutes in a league 1 game and looked tidy if unspectacular), to Fairclough, (the player who was so unbelievably outstanding in his substitute appearances for the all conquering Liverpool team from 40 odd years ago that he was known across the country as “super sub”)?
Righto.
Presumably, we should bin off Alex Gilbey too, because, let’s be honest, he’s no Zidane. 🙄
No, I was mainly stating that there are / have been subs that when come on make an impact, even with only 12 mins to go.
There was me thinking that Phillips never came for crosses and stayed on his line most of the time similar to David de Gea and we got promoted despite this and De Gea has had a half decent career.
The reason for the soft corner goal was we were missing, perm any one from 4: Stockley, Inniss, Lavell or Pearce.
For anyone to say Pearce wouldn't have had a handful of Stockton's shirt must be joking; Perhaps Jason would've fouled him outside the box ! Inniss and Pearce will need to be replaced soon and a lot of thought in who we can bring in if Deji Elerewe is tomorrows man and not today's
As for Kirk, he looked lightweight from his debut and if he gets in the team it won't be out left as it's impossible for him to go on the outside of his defender unless they slip over being as he so right footed. The dilemma for JJ is to find how he can contribute because someone at Cafc really rated him for a 4 year contract to be given. I didn't know much about him at Crewe yet some CL members were raving about.
I don't write off players straight away but Charlie has a lot of players ahead of him and it's difficult to see where he fits in ? CBT can cross from both flanks and go on the outside or inside, as can DJ and Leko so where will our longest contracted player fit in ? If Clare and Dobson are having storming games maybe in Lee's position if injured but his skill set looks well short of Elliott Lee.
Morgan and Kirk have some catching up to do but so many positives from the last 6 game. This squad can finish in the top half of the table but with the injuries we alway accumulate, to hit the top 6 we still need another striker and a fit CB. Try the loan system if need be.
Comments
Obviously we were tired after recent exertions, and we had some key players on the injury list and a shortage of experienced centre backs, so there was always a chance of a reversal last night.
But positives to take it's a extra point still on a unbeaten run and a hard working performance.
Bumped into the Gateshead squad at the services they just beat Curzon Ashton so Burger king and Costa was needed, very young squad.
Righto.
Presumably, we should bin off Alex Gilbey too, because, let’s be honest, he’s no Zidane.
🙄
And given that Fairclough used to come off the bench playing for the all-conquering Liverpool team of the late 70s/early 80s against tiring defences on heavy pitches, I reckon I might've bagged a few goals myself - even in my current state!
Fans excellent.
We go again.
I thought the back 3 was a mistake and said so before the game. Would only ever play Gunter at RCB but appreciate with Inniss, Lavelle and Pearce all out, we didn't have much choice. That's got to be an area we are looking at in January.
I thought Clare and Dobson were both superb, Famewo pretty decent. Gilbey and Lee showed glimses of quality, but ultimately ineffective. DJ started brightly and then was non-existent, CBT is perfect to bring on when we need a goal.
Defo need a striker in January. Davison is a 4th choice striker but have definitely seem harsh words towards him over the last 14 hours or so. But if we're playing the formation we are now, we need another option.
So just the two in Jan for me, a CB and a striker. I think that squad would then be good enough to reach the top 6 with JFC hopefully back too, but will need a bit of luck.
Obviously it helps if you were actually watching football 20 years ago as it gives you greater perspective, rather than playing with Lego or still being in the womb!
;-)
Believe you me…..there’s nothing to laugh about.😕
Am I right in saying that Dobson was about to latch onto a shot from a very promising position just as a couple of yards from goal, when the ref blew the final whistle 10 seconds early?
Happened so quickly I wasn’t sure.
He didn't once attempt to go wide, get behind them and get in a cross or run into the box.
Totally predictable, passing the ball sideways or backwards.
Some of the younger players are getting some criticism for their performances last night, but I don't think this is fair. Davison is still learning his trade and, imo, gives everything for the shirt - he is not the same threat Stockley is, but is a different player. There's more to come from him, but it's completely unfair to write him off. I think the ideal place for him right now would probably be another loan period, but we lack the options off the bench to do that. I'd like to see Leko return to the team in more of a forward (and not WB role), but I'd say we're probably still another 10+ goal a season striker light as we are now. Davison might get there, but he's just not there yet.
As for the other point of ire here, Kirk is, for me, in a similar boat as Davison. Despite the price tag and associated expectation, the role that was expected of him under Adkins has now changed to the system JJ now employs. He never hit the ground running and has a lot still to learn. With coaching, I think he'll get there, but it's just going to take time. Whilst you could say Kirk probably hasn't given everything in his performances so far, it's a big transition phase for him right now. Arms round him, rather than ragging on him.
Finally, I also disagree with people that suggested Elerewe should have come on instead of Gunter. As much as the Gunter mistake was painful to watch, this wasn't the kind of game to bring in Elerewe imo. I think with all our CBs fit, I think there will be opportunities to bring him in for minutes, but this will need to be managed carefully. Losing CBs to injury seems to be a recurring curse, but that's football.
We keep the unbeaten streak going and go to Shrewsbury still in good form. They played 45mins with 10 men against Sunderland last night, so may well be a little leggy. I still feel positive that we go into every game with the belief we can get 3 points. That feeling was definitely not there under Adkins.
The reason for the soft corner goal was we were missing, perm any one from 4:
Stockley, Inniss, Lavell or Pearce.
For anyone to say Pearce wouldn't have had a handful of Stockton's shirt must be joking;
Perhaps Jason would've fouled him outside the box ! Inniss and Pearce will need to be replaced soon and a lot of thought in who we can bring in if Deji Elerewe is tomorrows man and not today's
As for Kirk, he looked lightweight from his debut and if he gets in the team it won't be out left as it's impossible for him to go on the outside of his defender unless they slip over being as he so right footed. The dilemma for JJ is to find how he can contribute because someone at Cafc really rated him for a 4 year contract to be given.
I didn't know much about him at Crewe yet some CL members were raving about.
I don't write off players straight away but Charlie has a lot of players ahead of him and it's difficult to see where he fits in ?
CBT can cross from both flanks and go on the outside or inside, as can DJ and Leko so where will our longest contracted player fit in ?
If Clare and Dobson are having storming games maybe in Lee's position if injured but his skill set looks well short of Elliott Lee.
Morgan and Kirk have some catching up to do but so many positives from the last 6 game. This squad can finish in the top half of the table but with the injuries we alway accumulate, to hit the top 6 we still need another striker and a fit CB. Try the loan system if need be.