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Adkins Out? - Match Thread

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  • edited October 2021
    Chunes said:
    RedChaser said:
    Buck stops with TS yes but not all down to him. If it was me I’d feel badly let down by my advisors and asking some serious questions of them and in particular Mr Roddy as to ‘Why shouldn’t I bin you off with the Manager?’ 😡,
    Why does the buck stop with the owner? 
    Pretty obvious isn’t it he’s the ultimate decision maker.
  • If we lose tonight & he's still here by Wednesday afternoon, it becomes clear Sandgaard has no intention of paying him off.

    We'll probably get a draw or win & go round in the never ending loop again!!
  • Has it come to a point where people will boo and chant for him to leave/be sacked even if we win tonight? 
  • No. The general consensus is that Adkins should be sacked and if we lose it will be a broader consensus.
    Very accurate. 
  • Can't see TS getting to where he is in life without sacking people. Got to be the money involved in paying NA off. Unless the wheels are turning as we speak that is.

    If it is that is the reason though, reckon something needs to be done with regards to preventing journeyman managers who pitch up, make a mess of things, then require a pay off to walk away. Another aspect of the game that needs looking at imo
  • I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight.  Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
  • Chunes said:
    RedChaser said:
    Buck stops with TS yes but not all down to him. If it was me I’d feel badly let down by my advisors and asking some serious questions of them and in particular Mr Roddy as to ‘Why shouldn’t I bin you off with the Manager?’ 😡,
    Why does the buck stop with the owner? 
    Why wouldn't it? He can get opinions from anyone he likes but he's the one who makes the decisions and therefore he also is the one to face responsibility for them.

    He can't justifiably say that Roddy made him sign Adkins, if he thinks twice about trusting his judgement in future so be it but there's no evidence that Roddy was trying anything deceitful in his initial recommendation (if indeed it was he who suggested NA.)

    Incorrect? Sadly it seems so. But deliberately so? That's a colossal reach. 
  • Ideally @Gribbo you’d need a basic salary cap with performance bonus inventives but in the cut throat world of football, owners wouldn’t adhere to it in order to attract the best managerial talent in the market.
  • He was Charlton reserve team manager and made manager is that not previous with us. We didn’t get him from palace he was our reserve team manager. 
    A post he’d held for three months.
  • Perhaps 3 months here is enough to see what wants doing. 😃 wilder played 3 games someone said. 
    The successful Liverpool team of the 80s always recruited from within to dominate the whole decade 
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  • Adkins seems a decent football bloke from another era and he is clearly not all of the problem but this is getting undignified.

    For God's sake let's just admit it isn't working and move on or this could get ugly.
  • Let’s look at the cold hard facts here , were hoping to be amongst the challengers for promotion and we are 3rd from bottom after 12 games , say whatever you want but the simple equation is that he needs to be sacked if Thomas can figure that out by now we have some serious problems 
  • I am not suggesting this as a possible or desirable outcome but would anyone be happy with anything other than Adkins being sacked? 
  • I get the impression TS doesn't want to be the man that sacks his manager too soon and will resist for as long as he can. My guess is the next international break.

    What we don't know is what else is happening behind the scenes in the wider set up of the club if anything.
  • Dave2l said:
    I think TS had a brief Twitter pause, because he was wound up about doing a continuous post match defeat tweet.
    Like "We were unlucky today" etc

    Repetitive tick box exercise of nonsense.

    He is probably now seriously genuinely thinking about sacking adkins, but might have withdrawn from the idea due to a game being around the corner on Tuesday.

    I fear a small % of brentmister general DNA within TS, means he is someone that just wants to get on with people and be liked.


    Thing is there is always another game "round the corner", so based on that theory we're bloody well stuck with the loser till the end of the season, and maybe relegated....nope, Thomas just needs to man up to Nige and sort out HIS problem.. B)

    Might be a case that he is not used to people having a go at him.
    Probably always been dominant in his field of work.

    The man up phrase is probably a bit far away from reality. He just needs to sack Adkins and follow his gut instinct.....because he wants Charlton to be successful.

    This sport is not a friendly business. 

    The passion of it is not a toy
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club. 
    I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.

    Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
    TS didn’t separate the club from The Valley, that was ESI. What he couldn’t do and nobody else could either was prise it out of Roland’s hands.

    My view of TS hasn’t changed. He is a decent man who wants to make the club a success, but he won’t do it without the right support around him. He hasn’t got that. His choice. However, he does have far more substance than Southall and co. I think he believes what he says, but he is also unrealistic.

    As for Sandgaard selling the club or attracting an investor, it isn’t really worth anything, so he’d probably struggle on both counts even if he was so minded.

    By the way, as Bowyer pointed out when Southall announced he was offering him a five year deal, managers’ contracts don’t usually get paid up in full, hence the length isn’t the key. My guess is Adkins is on £300k-£400k pa and that’s probably what he’ll get. It’s just a question of when.
    He knew exactly how much the club cost to run, else what were his expensive law firm actually advising him on.   

    I also believe that he was told/advised, use what ever term you like, that there was massive, untapped, potential commercial revenue and that the transfer market could be gamed.

    You couldn’t predict the pandemic, but I’m sure he was all over the historic cost base. What it won’t have shown him is the fact that all the knowledge about the business was stripped out of the club from 2012-14. I’m not talking about me - Varney, Kavanagh, Paul Ellison, Matt Wright, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect, Prettee Jayasundera and a host of others below the more senior level all went. The only one who survived was Mick Everett and he was marginalised by Meire. Chris Parkes is irrelevant to the business as his role is football admin.

    Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.

    There are some good people working at Charlton now but they generally aren’t fans and don’t have the knowledge of or passion for the club. Like it if not, that made a difference to the value people brought to their roles.

    As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.

    I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
    On the transfer market I see Sorba Thomas is now regularly starting for Huddersfield who are 6th in the Championship.

    I said before he went there you have to judge each player individually rather than decide no non-league player is worth paying above a certain fee.

    They’ve probably paid more than we did for DJ, maybe even Kirk, but so far it appears they’ve got far better value.

    I think it’s fairly clear TS wants to at least partly fund the club through player sales in the way Brentford have (rather than us under RD), but as you say you need to spend more than we have.

    The odd player like CBT, Dobson and Clare might develop well in a strong side, but too many together is the sort of problem we saw under RD in 15/16 when we were relegated.
  • I've generally been pro-Adkins as he still had some credit left from last season's good run.

    He can go now as far as I'm concerned. Saturday was the time to push on after the Fleetwood win and form a positive base for the rest of the season.

    Instead we got the worst performance of the season, and even if we luck out tonight we know we don't have the ability or mindset to kick on.

    It's been so abject though that it feels like something else must be bad behind the scenes. 
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    I am not suggesting this as a possible or desirable outcome but would anyone be happy with anything other than Adkins being sacked? 
    Yes, I'd be happy with a 4-0 win. Genuinely happy for the team and manager. But I can't see it. As others have said, it was the manner of performance at Lincoln, with a pretty much full squad, and 2 weeks to prepare, that have convinced me his time is up. But I hope that's wrong, I hope we see the 'true' Kirk tonight, that Stockley links up with Washington to form a proper partnership, that Famewo recovers last year's form, that Clare comes in and shows for 90 minutes what he's so far only shown for 45, that Arter runs the show without looking like a headcase who has no control of his emotions, that Purrington dominates the left like he did in the pointless cup, that one of our right backs looks like an International footballer, and it all 'clicks'. If it does, I'll be happy with that. Otherwise it's goodnight Vienna and Sunderland away is the perfect game to see if Jackson can get a performance out of this lot. 
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  • The fact that he never fired Bowyer despite how bad things were for months under him, tells me we're stuck with Adkins, I suspect for at least another couple of months, regardless of how bad things get.
  • edited October 2021
    I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight.  Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
    Shame that there are thoughts out there that doesn't want us to win games just to get Nige out, I am sure that Thomas has more than enough ammunition to get shot without needing yet another defeat, all that will ensure is we could be rock bottom all on our own come 10pm tonight, we need the win like never before.
    I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
  • Cafc43v3r said:
    I am not suggesting this as a possible or desirable outcome but would anyone be happy with anything other than Adkins being sacked? 
    No
  • edited October 2021
    Cafc43v3r said:
    J BLOCK said:
    Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club. 
    I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.

    Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
    TS didn’t separate the club from The Valley, that was ESI. What he couldn’t do and nobody else could either was prise it out of Roland’s hands.

    My view of TS hasn’t changed. He is a decent man who wants to make the club a success, but he won’t do it without the right support around him. He hasn’t got that. His choice. However, he does have far more substance than Southall and co. I think he believes what he says, but he is also unrealistic.

    As for Sandgaard selling the club or attracting an investor, it isn’t really worth anything, so he’d probably struggle on both counts even if he was so minded.

    By the way, as Bowyer pointed out when Southall announced he was offering him a five year deal, managers’ contracts don’t usually get paid up in full, hence the length isn’t the key. My guess is Adkins is on £300k-£400k pa and that’s probably what he’ll get. It’s just a question of when.
    He knew exactly how much the club cost to run, else what were his expensive law firm actually advising him on.   

    I also believe that he was told/advised, use what ever term you like, that there was massive, untapped, potential commercial revenue and that the transfer market could be gamed.

    You couldn’t predict the pandemic, but I’m sure he was all over the historic cost base. What it won’t have shown him is the fact that all the knowledge about the business was stripped out of the club from 2012-14. I’m not talking about me - Varney, Kavanagh, Paul Ellison, Matt Wright, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect, Prettee Jayasundera and a host of others below the more senior level all went. The only one who survived was Mick Everett and he was marginalised by Meire. Chris Parkes is irrelevant to the business as his role is football admin.

    The people who came in to run the business (“professionalise it” as some laughably claimed on here) all moved on in short order: Prothero, Kensell, Bradshaw and Joyes (who was hired by Kavanagh). They would, because it was just a job to them, and some of them weren’t very good at it either. 

    Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.

    There are some good people working at Charlton now but they generally aren’t fans and don’t have the knowledge of or passion for the club. Like it if not, that made a difference to the value people brought to their roles.

    As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.

    I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
    Let's isolate one issue. Filling the ground. As Airman rightly states, the club had target 10,000 and target 20,000 and these schemes were successful and some. Of course you need a decent winning team to make these things work but all sides were pointing in the right direction. Has Thomas or any of his team asked advice in terms of increasing attendances? You would think the fact that we have been there and done it, there are obvious people to talk to, and I include Airman in that as he won't.

    But when you have a situation where people think they know it, you have to hope they are right. What we are seeing is that they are not. The transfer window was a complete farce and didn't save the club any money. We ended it with a bigger squad than we need and paying more in fees than is the norm. Accepting that Sandgaard at best knows as much about football as the average fan, and that is at best, I doubt that is the case. It shouldn't matter if you employ the right people. I have been critical of Bowyer at the end but it has also been revealed that Roddy was undermining him. 

    We have to make a leap, but I would say it isn't a massive leap to say that Roddy is Sandgaard's main adviser and we are seeing the results of that. Adkins seems not to have had the main role in choosing his players, but both him and Roddy need to go and maybe a new tack taken. Why not try to emulate the tack that was taken which led to our successful years? We embarked on that without great riches but with good sensible management all around the club. Those people are still around to help and advise.
  • Clarky said:
    Maccn05 said:
    Somebody Tweeted today that Adkins has taken training this morning and they had a team meeting and the players are fully behind Nige - he has 3 games to save his skin as there's nobody out there - what a depressing thought!

    Amazed there's been no comment from our 'leader' not even a vote of confidence
    So if there is nobody out there at the moment who will be out there when and if he cocks up the next three games? 
    I translate the ‘nobody out there’ line as TS isn’t willing to pay compensation for a manager currently at a club - especially after paying this chancer off. Adkins was free and nowhere near the best option. 
    Exactly, but that position won't change after the next three games apart from our league position getting worse.
  • My guess is Adkins gets tonight and Sunderland to see if things improve otherwise JJ and Euell will get a week to prepare for a more favourable game at home for Donny 
  • I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight.  Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
    Shame that there are thoughts out there that doesn't want us to win games just to get Nige out, I am sure that Thomas has more than enough ammunition to get shot without needing yet another defeat, all that will ensure is we could be rock bottom all on our own come 10pm tonight, we need the win like never before.
    I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
    I want us to win.  Perhaps I’ve worded it poorly, I can’t really bring myself to cheer a loss for the sake of a sacking.  That said we’ve already done the whole win and then believe it’s about to be turned around scenario.
This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!