Buck stops with TS yes but not all down to him. If it was me I’d feel badly let down by my advisors and asking some serious questions of them and in particular Mr Roddy as to ‘Why shouldn’t I bin you off with the Manager?’ 😡,
Why does the buck stop with the owner?
Why wouldn't it? He can get opinions from anyone he likes but he's the one who makes the decisions and therefore he also is the one to face responsibility for them.
He can't justifiably say that Roddy made him sign Adkins, if he thinks twice about trusting his judgement in future so be it but there's no evidence that Roddy was trying anything deceitful in his initial recommendation (if indeed it was he who suggested NA.)
Incorrect? Sadly it seems so. But deliberately so? That's a colossal reach.
Ideally @Gribbo you’d need a basic salary cap with performance bonus inventives but in the cut throat world of football, owners wouldn’t adhere to it in order to attract the best managerial talent in the market.
I don't think it has anything to do with not wanting to pay him out, it's purely and ego thing, he doesn't want HIS 1st choice of manager to be a duffer & he's hitched himself to that horse no matter what as he needs to be vindicated and proved right in his decision to 1. choose him in the fist place & 2. stick by him when things got tough & came out the other side smelling of roses. Unfortunately, that will happen when I grow wings and fly bare arsed over the Thames.
Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club.
I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.
Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
TS didn’t separate the club from The Valley, that was ESI. What he couldn’t do and nobody else could either was prise it out of Roland’s hands.
My view of TS hasn’t changed. He is a decent man who wants to make the club a success, but he won’t do it without the right support around him. He hasn’t got that. His choice. However, he does have far more substance than Southall and co. I think he believes what he says, but he is also unrealistic.
As for Sandgaard selling the club or attracting an investor, it isn’t really worth anything, so he’d probably struggle on both counts even if he was so minded.
By the way, as Bowyer pointed out when Southall announced he was offering him a five year deal, managers’ contracts don’t usually get paid up in full, hence the length isn’t the key. My guess is Adkins is on £300k-£400k pa and that’s probably what he’ll get. It’s just a question of when.
He knew exactly how much the club cost to run, else what were his expensive law firm actually advising him on.
I also believe that he was told/advised, use what ever term you like, that there was massive, untapped, potential commercial revenue and that the transfer market could be gamed.
You couldn’t predict the pandemic, but I’m sure he was all over the historic cost base. What it won’t have shown him is the fact that all the knowledge about the business was stripped out of the club from 2012-14. I’m not talking about me - Varney, Kavanagh, Paul Ellison, Matt Wright, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect, Prettee Jayasundera and a host of others below the more senior level all went. The only one who survived was Mick Everett and he was marginalised by Meire. Chris Parkes is irrelevant to the business as his role is football admin.
The people who came in to run the business (“professionalise it” as some laughably claimed on here) all moved on in short order: Prothero, Kensell, Bradshaw and Joyes (who was hired by Kavanagh). They would, because it was just a job to them, and some of them weren’t very good at it either.
Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.
There are some good people working at Charlton now but they generally aren’t fans and don’t have the knowledge of or passion for the club. Like it or not, that made a difference to the value people brought to their roles.
As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.
I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
Let’s look at the cold hard facts here , were hoping to be amongst the challengers for promotion and we are 3rd from bottom after 12 games , say whatever you want but the simple equation is that he needs to be sacked if Thomas can figure that out by now we have some serious problems
I get the impression TS doesn't want to be the man that sacks his manager too soon and will resist for as long as he can. My guess is the next international break.
What we don't know is what else is happening behind the scenes in the wider set up of the club if anything.
I think TS had a brief Twitter pause, because he was wound up about doing a continuous post match defeat tweet. Like "We were unlucky today" etc
Repetitive tick box exercise of nonsense.
He is probably now seriously genuinely thinking about sacking adkins, but might have withdrawn from the idea due to a game being around the corner on Tuesday.
I fear a small % of brentmister general DNA within TS, means he is someone that just wants to get on with people and be liked.
Thing is there is always another game "round the corner", so based on that theory we're bloody well stuck with the loser till the end of the season, and maybe relegated....nope, Thomas just needs to man up to Nige and sort out HIS problem..
Might be a case that he is not used to people having a go at him. Probably always been dominant in his field of work.
The man up phrase is probably a bit far away from reality. He just needs to sack Adkins and follow his gut instinct.....because he wants Charlton to be successful.
Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club.
I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.
Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
TS didn’t separate the club from The Valley, that was ESI. What he couldn’t do and nobody else could either was prise it out of Roland’s hands.
My view of TS hasn’t changed. He is a decent man who wants to make the club a success, but he won’t do it without the right support around him. He hasn’t got that. His choice. However, he does have far more substance than Southall and co. I think he believes what he says, but he is also unrealistic.
As for Sandgaard selling the club or attracting an investor, it isn’t really worth anything, so he’d probably struggle on both counts even if he was so minded.
By the way, as Bowyer pointed out when Southall announced he was offering him a five year deal, managers’ contracts don’t usually get paid up in full, hence the length isn’t the key. My guess is Adkins is on £300k-£400k pa and that’s probably what he’ll get. It’s just a question of when.
He knew exactly how much the club cost to run, else what were his expensive law firm actually advising him on.
I also believe that he was told/advised, use what ever term you like, that there was massive, untapped, potential commercial revenue and that the transfer market could be gamed.
You couldn’t predict the pandemic, but I’m sure he was all over the historic cost base. What it won’t have shown him is the fact that all the knowledge about the business was stripped out of the club from 2012-14. I’m not talking about me - Varney, Kavanagh, Paul Ellison, Matt Wright, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect, Prettee Jayasundera and a host of others below the more senior level all went. The only one who survived was Mick Everett and he was marginalised by Meire. Chris Parkes is irrelevant to the business as his role is football admin.
Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.
There are some good people working at Charlton now but they generally aren’t fans and don’t have the knowledge of or passion for the club. Like it if not, that made a difference to the value people brought to their roles.
As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.
I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
On the transfer market I see Sorba Thomas is now regularly starting for Huddersfield who are 6th in the Championship.
I said before he went there you have to judge each player individually rather than decide no non-league player is worth paying above a certain fee.
They’ve probably paid more than we did for DJ, maybe even Kirk, but so far it appears they’ve got far better value.
I think it’s fairly clear TS wants to at least partly fund the club through player sales in the way Brentford have (rather than us under RD), but as you say you need to spend more than we have.
The odd player like CBT, Dobson and Clare might develop well in a strong side, but too many together is the sort of problem we saw under RD in 15/16 when we were relegated.
I am not suggesting this as a possible or desirable outcome but would anyone be happy with anything other than Adkins being sacked?
Yes, I'd be happy with a 4-0 win. Genuinely happy for the team and manager. But I can't see it. As others have said, it was the manner of performance at Lincoln, with a pretty much full squad, and 2 weeks to prepare, that have convinced me his time is up. But I hope that's wrong, I hope we see the 'true' Kirk tonight, that Stockley links up with Washington to form a proper partnership, that Famewo recovers last year's form, that Clare comes in and shows for 90 minutes what he's so far only shown for 45, that Arter runs the show without looking like a headcase who has no control of his emotions, that Purrington dominates the left like he did in the pointless cup, that one of our right backs looks like an International footballer, and it all 'clicks'. If it does, I'll be happy with that. Otherwise it's goodnight Vienna and Sunderland away is the perfect game to see if Jackson can get a performance out of this lot.
The fact that he never fired Bowyer despite how bad things were for months under him, tells me we're stuck with Adkins, I suspect for at least another couple of months, regardless of how bad things get.
I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight. Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
Shame that there are thoughts out there that doesn't want us to win games just to get Nige out, I am sure that Thomas has more than enough ammunition to get shot without needing yet another defeat, all that will ensure is we could be rock bottom all on our own come 10pm tonight, we need the win like never before. I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club.
I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.
Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
TS didn’t separate the club from The Valley, that was ESI. What he couldn’t do and nobody else could either was prise it out of Roland’s hands.
My view of TS hasn’t changed. He is a decent man who wants to make the club a success, but he won’t do it without the right support around him. He hasn’t got that. His choice. However, he does have far more substance than Southall and co. I think he believes what he says, but he is also unrealistic.
As for Sandgaard selling the club or attracting an investor, it isn’t really worth anything, so he’d probably struggle on both counts even if he was so minded.
By the way, as Bowyer pointed out when Southall announced he was offering him a five year deal, managers’ contracts don’t usually get paid up in full, hence the length isn’t the key. My guess is Adkins is on £300k-£400k pa and that’s probably what he’ll get. It’s just a question of when.
He knew exactly how much the club cost to run, else what were his expensive law firm actually advising him on.
I also believe that he was told/advised, use what ever term you like, that there was massive, untapped, potential commercial revenue and that the transfer market could be gamed.
You couldn’t predict the pandemic, but I’m sure he was all over the historic cost base. What it won’t have shown him is the fact that all the knowledge about the business was stripped out of the club from 2012-14. I’m not talking about me - Varney, Kavanagh, Paul Ellison, Matt Wright, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect, Prettee Jayasundera and a host of others below the more senior level all went. The only one who survived was Mick Everett and he was marginalised by Meire. Chris Parkes is irrelevant to the business as his role is football admin.
The people who came in to run the business (“professionalise it” as some laughably claimed on here) all moved on in short order: Prothero, Kensell, Bradshaw and Joyes (who was hired by Kavanagh). They would, because it was just a job to them, and some of them weren’t very good at it either.
Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.
There are some good people working at Charlton now but they generally aren’t fans and don’t have the knowledge of or passion for the club. Like it if not, that made a difference to the value people brought to their roles.
As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.
I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
Let's isolate one issue. Filling the ground. As Airman rightly states, the club had target 10,000 and target 20,000 and these schemes were successful and some. Of course you need a decent winning team to make these things work but all sides were pointing in the right direction. Has Thomas or any of his team asked advice in terms of increasing attendances? You would think the fact that we have been there and done it, there are obvious people to talk to, and I include Airman in that as he won't.
But when you have a situation where people think they know it, you have to hope they are right. What we are seeing is that they are not. The transfer window was a complete farce and didn't save the club any money. We ended it with a bigger squad than we need and paying more in fees than is the norm. Accepting that Sandgaard at best knows as much about football as the average fan, and that is at best, I doubt that is the case. It shouldn't matter if you employ the right people. I have been critical of Bowyer at the end but it has also been revealed that Roddy was undermining him.
We have to make a leap, but I would say it isn't a massive leap to say that Roddy is Sandgaard's main adviser and we are seeing the results of that. Adkins seems not to have had the main role in choosing his players, but both him and Roddy need to go and maybe a new tack taken. Why not try to emulate the tack that was taken which led to our successful years? We embarked on that without great riches but with good sensible management all around the club. Those people are still around to help and advise.
Luckily, I've had a bit of an existential breakdown with Charlton and the fact that pretty much my entire life supporting them has been a brief bit of joy followed by a slow declining collapse, mirroring life in general, so I'm able to view the situation fairly cold. I actually felt nothing when Lincoln scored their goals, and barely anything more we we scored ours, so with emotion completely out of it I'm mostly just finding the situation really, really weird.
Adkins came in to a team that had struggled for consistency all season, but looked like a squad of decent players who couldn't stop making stupid mistakes that cost goals. Sometimes they were good enough to offset the daft stuff and win, and sometimes they weren't. This basically drove Bowyer insane and his public and private anger turned toxic and it was time for him to move on so he could call Scott Hogan a prick every week instead. He walked and Sandgaard brought in Bowyer's opposite; someone who was all about an arm round the shoulder to pick up a team used to being berated in public, with a brief to develop players from the academy. We went from criticism of players after matches to excessive praise; Adkins called Gilbey phenomenal after a decent enough return to the side following a disastrous start at Charlton, and Gilbey rewarded him with 3 goals and an assist in 9 games. DJ was re-integrated, the injuries seemed to stop and we looked like a unit. Lost one in 10, pumped Plymouth 6-0 away and missed out on the Play-Offs on goal difference, conceding late against Crewe in what felt more like a Bowyer squad hangover than an Adkins issue. We were happy, the squad looked happy, it was just all about the build for the next season to counteract the contract expiry problems we had thanks to the Roland/ESI/transfer ban situation. Skipping past the transfer window, it's just incredible how badly we've crashed. It reminds me a bit of Luzon, he came in all energy and social ineptness, offsetting the misery of Peeters talking shit about players behind their backs in training and generally being a knob, we started hammering some teams, battling out wins against others, Church scored, it was crazy. We were ready to build, had what looked like a decent enough summer (Bauer, Kashi, Naby, Giant Man), started well and then proceeded to be absolute jank forever. With Luzon you could see it; he wasn't really a football manager, and he didn't really know what he was doing there. When it went wrong I don't think anyone was particularly surprised. Of course he was rubbish; just because your dog looks funny sat behind the wheel of your car it doesn't mean you should sign him up for driving lessons. Adkins feels weirder though. He isn't some random bloke Roland found behind his sofa, this is a manager with serious pedigree, multiple League One promotions and a Premier League stint. He seemed to be what we needed; a manager capable of picking up a team of good, experienced League One players who just needed a cuddle, not a load of random players cobbled together from different international leagues who barely knew each other and children in a tiny squad. This is the lowest we've ever been, with one of the biggest and most experienced first team League One squads we've ever had, and a manager who isn't a total chancer but seems to be completely incapable of convincing the players to pass 5 yards to each other. It's genuinely mystifying, we can blame fitness, late transfers, formations, Sandgaard, Adkins, either Roddy, whomever we want, but none of it should really add up to it being quite this bad. It's crazy. It's really unfathomable that we're quite this bad and it feels like something scientists should be studying. It's a mess and I don't know if a new manager is the solution we all hope it will be
Somebody Tweeted today that Adkins has taken training this morning and they had a team meeting and the players are fully behind Nige - he has 3 games to save his skin as there's nobody out there - what a depressing thought!
Amazed there's been no comment from our 'leader' not even a vote of confidence
So if there is nobody out there at the moment who will be out there when and if he cocks up the next three games?
I translate the ‘nobody out there’ line as TS isn’t willing to pay compensation for a manager currently at a club - especially after paying this chancer off. Adkins was free and nowhere near the best option.
Exactly, but that position won't change after the next three games apart from our league position getting worse.
Luckily, I've had a bit of an existential breakdown with Charlton and the fact that pretty much my entire life supporting them has been a brief bit of joy followed by a slow declining collapse, mirroring life in general, so I'm able to view the situation fairly cold. I actually felt nothing when Lincoln scored their goals, and barely anything more we we scored ours, so with emotion completely out of it I'm mostly just finding the situation really, really weird.
Adkins came in to a team that had struggled for consistency all season, but looked like a squad of decent players who couldn't stop making stupid mistakes that cost goals. Sometimes they were good enough to offset the daft stuff and win, and sometimes they weren't. This basically drove Bowyer insane and his public and private anger turned toxic and it was time for him to move on so he could call Scott Hogan a prick every week instead. He walked and Sandgaard brought in Bowyer's opposite; someone who was all about an arm round the shoulder to pick up a team used to being berated in public, with a brief to develop players from the academy. We went from criticism of players after matches to excessive praise; Adkins called Gilbey phenomenal after a decent enough return to the side following a disastrous start at Charlton, and Gilbey rewarded him with 3 goals and an assist in 9 games. DJ was re-integrated, the injuries seemed to stop and we looked like a unit. Lost one in 10, pumped Plymouth 6-0 away and missed out on the Play-Offs on goal difference, conceding late against Crewe in what felt more like a Bowyer squad hangover than an Adkins issue. We were happy, the squad looked happy, it was just all about the build for the next season to counteract the contract expiry problems we had thanks to the Roland/ESI/transfer ban situation. Skipping past the transfer window, it's just incredible how badly we've crashed. It reminds me a bit of Luzon, he came in all energy and social ineptness, offsetting the misery of Peeters talking shit about players behind their backs in training and generally being a knob, we started hammering some teams, battling out wins against others, Church scored, it was crazy. We were ready to build, had what looked like a decent enough summer (Bauer, Kashi, Naby, Giant Man), started well and then proceeded to be absolute jank forever. With Luzon you could see it; he wasn't really a football manager, and he didn't really know what he was doing there. When it went wrong I don't think anyone was particularly surprised. Of course he was rubbish; just because your dog looks funny sat behind the wheel of your car it doesn't mean you should sign him up for driving lessons. Adkins feels weirder though. He isn't some random bloke Roland found behind his sofa, this is a manager with serious pedigree, multiple League One promotions and a Premier League stint. He seemed to be what we needed; a manager capable of picking up a team of good, experienced League One players who just needed a cuddle, not a load of random players cobbled together from different international leagues who barely knew each other and children in a tiny squad. This is the lowest we've ever been, with one of the biggest and most experienced first team League One squads we've ever had, and a manager who isn't a total chancer but seems to be completely incapable of convincing the players to pass 5 yards to each other. It's genuinely mystifying, we can blame fitness, late transfers, formations, Sandgaard, Adkins, either Roddy, whomever we want, but none of it should really add up to it being quite this bad. It's crazy. It's really unfathomable that we're quite this bad and it feels like something scientists should be studying. It's a mess and I don't know if a new manager is the solution we all hope it will be
This^ Thanks for articulating my own confusion and despair!
My guess is Adkins gets tonight and Sunderland to see if things improve otherwise JJ and Euell will get a week to prepare for a more favourable game at home for Donny
I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight. Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
Shame that there are thoughts out there that doesn't want us to win games just to get Nige out, I am sure that Thomas has more than enough ammunition to get shot without needing yet another defeat, all that will ensure is we could be rock bottom all on our own come 10pm tonight, we need the win like never before. I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
I want us to win. Perhaps I’ve worded it poorly, I can’t really bring myself to cheer a loss for the sake of a sacking. That said we’ve already done the whole win and then believe it’s about to be turned around scenario.
Getting more pissed off at TS by the day. Why is Adkins still in charge of this football club.
I can't shake off the feeling that something bad is going on behind the scenes.
Most of us fell for Southall at first, and while I don't think TS is in the slightest bit dodgy I do feel we may have got far too excited about him. Let's face it, he did get us out of a dreadful situation but at the expense of separating the club from the Valley. A bit like Southall, he arrived at a time when we were desperate and said all the right things. I'm not sure what to think right now, and maybe I've got my conspiracy theory head on, but I'm anxious about the future under Tommy.
TS didn’t separate the club from The Valley, that was ESI. What he couldn’t do and nobody else could either was prise it out of Roland’s hands.
My view of TS hasn’t changed. He is a decent man who wants to make the club a success, but he won’t do it without the right support around him. He hasn’t got that. His choice. However, he does have far more substance than Southall and co. I think he believes what he says, but he is also unrealistic.
As for Sandgaard selling the club or attracting an investor, it isn’t really worth anything, so he’d probably struggle on both counts even if he was so minded.
By the way, as Bowyer pointed out when Southall announced he was offering him a five year deal, managers’ contracts don’t usually get paid up in full, hence the length isn’t the key. My guess is Adkins is on £300k-£400k pa and that’s probably what he’ll get. It’s just a question of when.
He knew exactly how much the club cost to run, else what were his expensive law firm actually advising him on.
I also believe that he was told/advised, use what ever term you like, that there was massive, untapped, potential commercial revenue and that the transfer market could be gamed.
You couldn’t predict the pandemic, but I’m sure he was all over the historic cost base. What it won’t have shown him is the fact that all the knowledge about the business was stripped out of the club from 2012-14. I’m not talking about me - Varney, Kavanagh, Paul Ellison, Matt Wright, Dave Archer, Wendy Perfect, Prettee Jayasundera and a host of others below the more senior level all went. The only one who survived was Mick Everett and he was marginalised by Meire. Chris Parkes is irrelevant to the business as his role is football admin.
The people who came in to run the business (“professionalise it” as some laughably claimed on here) all moved on in short order: Prothero, Kensell, Bradshaw and Joyes (who was hired by Kavanagh). They would, because it was just a job to them, and some of them weren’t very good at it either.
Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.
There are some good people working at Charlton now but they generally aren’t fans and don’t have the knowledge of or passion for the club. Like it or not, that made a difference to the value people brought to their roles.
As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.
I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
But it's not 'either or', is it?
Yes, Adkins is making a mess of things, but it's clear that Sandgaard needs to address both issues ... Manager and the lack of 'cultural/contextual' understanding as you put it.
One may be quicker and easier to deal with than the other, but both have to be done.
As I have said in earlier posts ... Step 1 for Sandgaard is that he has to realise that he needs help, and to ask for it.
I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight. Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
Shame that there are thoughts out there that doesn't want us to win games just to get Nige out, I am sure that Thomas has more than enough ammunition to get shot without needing yet another defeat, all that will ensure is we could be rock bottom all on our own come 10pm tonight, we need the win like never before. I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
I want us to win. Perhaps I’ve worded it poorly, I can’t really bring myself to cheer a loss for the sake of a sacking. That said we’ve already done the whole win and then believe it’s about to be turned around scenario.
Wasn't aimed at you specifically BR7, but i have read it before, and yes that's what i was saying, win lose or draw things need to be sorted as a matter of urgency, and i hope that Thomas isn't too far backwards in coming forwards, and has some sort of plan, but we are all in the dark really..
Buck stops with TS yes but not all down to him. If it was me I’d feel badly let down by my advisors and asking some serious questions of them and in particular Mr Roddy as to ‘Why shouldn’t I bin you off with the Manager?’ 😡,
Why does the buck stop with the owner?
Pretty obvious isn’t it he’s the ultimate decision maker.
I can't agree. I find it strange that during a run of bad results, everyone looks to the owner. For results on the pitch, given an adequate squad, the buck stops with the manager. I think this must be a byproduct of our years of ownership abuse that we lose games and blame the owner.
Something that annoys me has been the seemingly radio silence regarding this subject from the powers above. Even if there was a vote confidence come out and say it. Even in the trust meeting Roddy and Gallen seemed to tip toe around the subject all seems very strange to me as if there’s something more to it than meets the eye
I genuinely believe he will be gone if we lose tonight. Gutting thing is I think we’ll get a win, somehow.
Shame that there are thoughts out there that doesn't want us to win games just to get Nige out, I am sure that Thomas has more than enough ammunition to get shot without needing yet another defeat, all that will ensure is we could be rock bottom all on our own come 10pm tonight, we need the win like never before. I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
I want us to win. Perhaps I’ve worded it poorly, I can’t really bring myself to cheer a loss for the sake of a sacking. That said we’ve already done the whole win and then believe it’s about to be turned around scenario.
Wasn't aimed at you specifically BR7, but i have read it before, and yes that's what i was saying, win lose or draw things need to be sorted as a matter of urgency, and i hope that Thomas isn't too far backwards in coming forwards, and has some sort of plan, but we are all in the dark really..
I'm not sure that there's many (if any) people who are actively hoping for the team to lose. But I DO think that there are quite a few (including me) who genuinely just can't see anything else happening.
There's just nothing at all that makes me think these players under this manager will win a game of football. Even the pizza cup wins have come with JJ in the driving seat not Adkins.
I don't want to boo the players or cheer for a defeat, I bloody hate losing but I honestly think the fans should be chanting "Adkins Out" from the first whistle to the last tonight, even though I know this obviously won't help the players and the performance.
Something needs to change and it feels like it needs to be forced by creating an atmosphere that isn't sustainable for TS or NA. We shouldn't have to do this this but Thomas seems to be very resistant to this change which 100% needs to happen.
I’m always one for getting behind the team but does anyone agree that if it is that we want to make voice heard , we need to be shouting for Adkins to go before the game and not just waiting until we are losing ?
Buck stops with TS yes but not all down to him. If it was me I’d feel badly let down by my advisors and asking some serious questions of them and in particular Mr Roddy as to ‘Why shouldn’t I bin you off with the Manager?’ 😡,
Why does the buck stop with the owner?
Pretty obvious isn’t it he’s the ultimate decision maker.
I don't agree. I find it strange that during a run of bad results, everyone looks to the owner. I think it's a byproduct of our years of ownership abuse.
I don’t think everyone is looking purely at the owner but there’s no getting away from the fact that he put the management structure together so if it goes pear shaped it’s down to him, it’s his investment, project / business plan.
Now you can look at where that plan has failed down the chain of command but he can’t totally absolve himself of responsibility. Delegate by all means as he has done to Roddy and co but don’t bury your head and hope it all comes good. Urgent action needs to be taken to right the ship and I would hope those wheels are in motion. Failing which he will not only lose my sympathy and that of many others but loads more money in L2.
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He can't justifiably say that Roddy made him sign Adkins, if he thinks twice about trusting his judgement in future so be it but there's no evidence that Roddy was trying anything deceitful in his initial recommendation (if indeed it was he who suggested NA.)
Incorrect? Sadly it seems so. But deliberately so? That's a colossal reach.
For God's sake let's just admit it isn't working and move on or this could get ugly.
The people who came in to run the business (“professionalise it” as some laughably claimed on here) all moved on in short order: Prothero, Kensell, Bradshaw and Joyes (who was hired by Kavanagh). They would, because it was just a job to them, and some of them weren’t very good at it either.
Say what you like about the 1984-2012 board there were always people on it who understood the club and challenged the executive on one level or another if they felt it was falling short. From 2012-2020 there was only Murray. Now there is no one except TS. I doubt if the other guy does anything re the business operation. It appears he was brought in because TS was previously in breach of the company’s articles of association.
As for commercial “potential”, same old, same old. Every incoming administration has believed that they could do better than the past because it suits them to believe that and they don’t understand the culture or the context. The club isn’t doomed to fail but neither is it able to change the world in which it operates. TS talks about filling the ground as if it’s never been tried - as a club we pioneered that approach with some success.
I do think you can game the transfer market, as Brentford have, but you need the right people in post. You also need to spend more than he did on Dobson and Clare, is my guess. But none of this matters if he doesn’t bite the bullet on Adkins.
What we don't know is what else is happening behind the scenes in the wider set up of the club if anything.
Might be a case that he is not used to people having a go at him.
Probably always been dominant in his field of work.
The man up phrase is probably a bit far away from reality. He just needs to sack Adkins and follow his gut instinct.....because he wants Charlton to be successful.
This sport is not a friendly business.
The passion of it is not a toy
I said before he went there you have to judge each player individually rather than decide no non-league player is worth paying above a certain fee.
They’ve probably paid more than we did for DJ, maybe even Kirk, but so far it appears they’ve got far better value.
I think it’s fairly clear TS wants to at least partly fund the club through player sales in the way Brentford have (rather than us under RD), but as you say you need to spend more than we have.
The odd player like CBT, Dobson and Clare might develop well in a strong side, but too many together is the sort of problem we saw under RD in 15/16 when we were relegated.
He can go now as far as I'm concerned. Saturday was the time to push on after the Fleetwood win and form a positive base for the rest of the season.
Instead we got the worst performance of the season, and even if we luck out tonight we know we don't have the ability or mindset to kick on.
It's been so abject though that it feels like something else must be bad behind the scenes.
I hold onto hope that Thomas is getting this sorted win, lose, or draw tonight because this whole season can not be held in reserve just incase things improve, he just needs dumping ASAP..
But when you have a situation where people think they know it, you have to hope they are right. What we are seeing is that they are not. The transfer window was a complete farce and didn't save the club any money. We ended it with a bigger squad than we need and paying more in fees than is the norm. Accepting that Sandgaard at best knows as much about football as the average fan, and that is at best, I doubt that is the case. It shouldn't matter if you employ the right people. I have been critical of Bowyer at the end but it has also been revealed that Roddy was undermining him.
We have to make a leap, but I would say it isn't a massive leap to say that Roddy is Sandgaard's main adviser and we are seeing the results of that. Adkins seems not to have had the main role in choosing his players, but both him and Roddy need to go and maybe a new tack taken. Why not try to emulate the tack that was taken which led to our successful years? We embarked on that without great riches but with good sensible management all around the club. Those people are still around to help and advise.
Thanks for articulating my own confusion and despair!
But it's not 'either or', is it?
Yes, Adkins is making a mess of things, but it's clear that Sandgaard needs to address both issues ... Manager and the lack of 'cultural/contextual' understanding as you put it.
One may be quicker and easier to deal with than the other, but both have to be done.
As I have said in earlier posts ... Step 1 for Sandgaard is that he has to realise that he needs help, and to ask for it.
There's just nothing at all that makes me think these players under this manager will win a game of football. Even the pizza cup wins have come with JJ in the driving seat not Adkins.
Something needs to change and it feels like it needs to be forced by creating an atmosphere that isn't sustainable for TS or NA. We shouldn't have to do this this but Thomas seems to be very resistant to this change which 100% needs to happen.