this is the problem all names mentioned not one an improvement on NA … it’s no good giving it large about Adkins out if you can’t give a replacement who would do a better job .. there no one available in our range …. Do you really want Pulis Harris or Lennon ??
Mick McCarthy losing his job at Cardiff according to reports … ? But he on par with NA think NA record at this level is better
so there the problem sack NA for who .. unless TS can bring someone in who better then leave it as it is
I want a young, dynamic manager with fresh ideas and a pleasing style of play. I have no idea off the top of my head who, I don't follow closely enough who is doing well and who their manager is and it's thankfully not my job to do so, but Duff has got Cheltenham up and they played nice football against us the other week but do they do that regularly or were we just crap making them look good I don't know, Bolton passed the ball nicely last night, played out from the back, created chances, took their goals well and for a promoted side are doing well so could Evatt be a possibility? Anyway, not a McCarthy or Harris etc etc.
I apologise if my attempt at a humorous gif has struck the wrong chord. Mods please feel free to remove it. FWIW I think Adkins is a decent guy who has been given a bad hand but has, almost inevitably, turned into a parody of himself. I wish him the best in whatever comes next. But that whatever should be elsewhere.
I will be taking a short break from football related matters on here and will confine myself to a belated update on my health related thread to which I retreat when I need a reminder of this forum at its best unlike the current unsavoury anxst fest to which I unfortunately contributed earlier.
Personally, I think it's gone too far now and NA should be removed. 10 games is enough time to see when something is going REALLY wrong, and not just a temporary drop in form.
Jackson and Euell can take charge for Fleetwood (and the Pizza game next week), which may or may not give a temporary boost
As for permanent choices, I'd rather go for someone on the way up, not someone on the way down, clinging on to their managerial career, which in retrospect is what the Adkins appointment feels like (ditto Slade). However dismal we may be on the pitch, compared to most L1 and L2 clubs we're still a really attractive job, with the resources and fanbase we have. There will be managers in L1 thinking that their clubs have reached their ceiling, where it's hard to go any higher and even if they do, they'll go straight down, whereas Charlton ought to be competitive in the Championship.
this is the problem all names mentioned not one an improvement on NA … it’s no good giving it large about Adkins out if you can’t give a replacement who would do a better job .. there no one available in our range …. Do you really want Pulis Harris or Lennon ??
Mick McCarthy losing his job at Cardiff according to reports … ? But he on par with NA think NA record at this level is better
so there the problem sack NA for who .. unless TS can bring someone in who better then leave it as it is
Mr Troll - we CAN say make a change without naming a replacement - as it’s not our job to sort this, it’s the owners! Leave as is? how many leagues do you want us to crash out of by leaving as it is?
The last time I contributed on one of these type of threads was after the Swindon defeat under Phil Parkinson.
I commented « for a job interview (with the new board) it was a very bad night »
Last night was a very bad night.
The challenge however goes far deeper than just one night and one man.
It argues as to why Mr Sandgaard bought* the club in the first place
* In addressing this aspect can we dismiss this nonsense about other investors and an Administration rescuing our situation. It is utter nonsense.
The club is in a parlous state after a decade of abuse where Baton 2010 begat Jiminez (property) begat Duchâtelet ( property) begat ESI (fuck knows). Different folks, different playbooks, different agenda.
We are diminished. The Stadium, Training Ground are no longer ours. Nobody was going to pay the asking price. ESI was allegedly « the get out of jail » card RD bought. Trading liabilities are gone. Ex directors can wait. Leverage is done.
Mr Adkins? The challenge is far deeper than just one night and one man.
NA is an extremely well qualified coach and a very decent guy. So please keep your one dimensional playground juvenile insults to yourself.
It starts with the simple question of just how and why is, for an important League 1 fixture, £1mn of talent and probably a very expensive loanee not on the pitch. The club has invested in Arter, Kirk, Stockley, Jaiyesimi. It is not a good look.
Sandgaard spent considerable money in legal expertise and other areas acquiring the club. I suspect he did research into a sustainable business model.
TS, GR, SG, NA and SA all signed into the business model.
TS has implemented; - a new recruitment team - new recruitment analytics and procedures - a new one club culture evidenced by 51 full professional contracts
After a decade of chaos he is intent on stability and sustainable growth.
The ambition is rarely the problem. It is a matter of how and when you implement change.
It was debatable whether you implement all of the new elements at this time.
I wouldn’t have. I regarded the brand as too weak, the infrastructure too fragile, the culture too febrile. Years of neglect driven by poisonous self interest can creep into the very fibre of the business.
Each & every one of those elements will present significant challenges to any Head Coach at any time.
We missed 4 key preseason milestones NA was on a hiding to nothing.
Does TS? Do we have a right to expect better from NA, JJ, JE and the players?
Absolutely, but it is foolish to ignore the mitigating circumstances to simply blow it all up and start all over again after 10 weeks. Stability? Revolving doors?
A new manager? With his staff? With his players? With 51 contracts on the books? Have you got a price tag with that? Do you remember Dowie? Pardew? We watched them fritter away a decade of growth before our very eyes.
You want to continue the chaos of 2008/ 2009? Peninsular Dev. Opps? 2011 /2012? Liege player dumps 2014? Player trading punts 2015/2016? Stakeholder Wars 2017/2018? Investment pipe dreams & Luxury Cars 2019/2020?
I recognise the pain but the next steps are key to the existence of the club.
If Adkins goes who else in the EFL is going to sign into the business model?
If you are going to rip up the business model where next for Sandgaard?
Murray, Chappell, The 25, Jiminez, Duchâtelet, ESI, Sandgaard how many more?
TS, GR, SG, NA and SA need to revisit the business model, it’s timings and operations to find a way forward. Whether NA still has a role to play and what role that maybe will come out of those discussions.
The entire process appears to be far more complicated than it needs to be. Complexity confuses people. The players appear palpably confused.
As with every success and failure what’s done is done. There are 3 questions; a) is Adkins equipped with the skills and resources to take us forward. b) is Adkins the best person to take us forward within a revised business model
if not who is? I am not sure there is a readily available answer.
Change for the better is good. Change for the sake of it delivers very little.
I get the clamour for Curbs but this is a guy who is 64 in a few weeks and hasn't managed for over 13 years. I love the guy, but personally for me after so long out of the game he isn't the answer.
And remember how bad his football was in the last 12 months .. awful negative football went to West Ham and got found out big time
The last time I contributed on one of these type of threads was after the Swindon defeat under Phil Parkinson.
I commented « for a job interview (with the new board) it was a very bad night »
Last night was a very bad night.
The challenge however goes far deeper than just one night and one man.
It argues as to why Mr Sandgaard bought* the club in the first place
* In addressing this aspect can we dismiss this nonsense about other investors and an Administration rescuing our situation. It is utter nonsense.
The club is in a parlous state after a decade of abuse where Baton 2010 begat Jiminez (property) begat Duchâtelet ( property) begat ESI (fuck knows). Different folks, different playbooks, different agenda.
We are diminished. The Stadium, Training Ground are no longer ours. Nobody was going to pay the asking price. ESI was allegedly « the get out of jail » card RD bought. Trading liabilities are gone. Ex directors can wait. Leverage is done.
Mr Adkins? The challenge is far deeper than just one night and one man.
NA is an extremely well qualified coach and a very decent guy. So please keep your one dimensional playground juvenile insults to yourself.
It starts with the simple question of just how and why is, for an important League 1 fixture, £1mn of talent and probably a very expensive loanee not on the pitch. The club has invested in Arter, Kirk, Stockley, Jaiyesimi. It is not a good look.
Sandgaard spent considerable money in legal expertise and other areas acquiring the club. I suspect he did research into a sustainable business model.
TS, GR, SG, NA and SA all signed into the business model.
TS has implemented; - a new recruitment team - new recruitment analytics and procedures - a new one club culture evidenced by 51 full professional contracts
After a decade of chaos he is intent on stability and sustainable growth.
The ambition is rarely the problem. It is a matter of how and when you implement change.
It was debatable whether you implement all of the new elements at this time.
I wouldn’t have. I regarded the brand as too weak, the infrastructure too fragile, the culture too febrile. Years of neglect driven by poisonous self interest can creep into the very fibre of the business.
Each & every one of those elements will present significant challenges to any Head Coach at any time.
We missed 4 key preseason milestones NA was on a hiding to nothing.
Does TS? Do we have a right to expect better from NA, JJ, JE and the players?
Absolutely, but it is foolish to ignore the mitigating circumstances to simply blow it all up and start all over again after 10 weeks. Stability? Revolving doors?
A new manager? With his staff? With his players? With 51 contracts on the books? Have you got a price tag with that? Do you remember Dowie? Pardew? We watched them fritter away a decade of growth before our very eyes.
You want to continue the chaos of 2008/ 2009? Peninsular Dev. Opps? 2011 /2012? Liege player dumps 2014? Player trading punts 2015/2016? Stakeholder Wars 2017/2018? Investment pipe dreams & Luxury Cars 2019/2020?
I recognise the pain but the next steps are key to the existence of the club.
If Adkins goes who else in the EFL is going to sign into the business model?
If you are going to rip up the business model where next for Sandgaard?
Murray, Chappell, The 25, Jiminez, Duchâtelet, ESI, Sandgaard how many more?
TS, GR, SG, NA and SA need to revisit the business model, it’s timings and operations to find a way forward. Whether NA still has a role to play and what role that maybe will come out of those discussions.
The entire process appears to be far more complicated than it needs to be. Complexity confuses people. The players appear palpably confused.
As with every success and failure what’s done is done. There are 3 questions; a) is Adkins equipped with the skills and resources to take us forward. b) is Adkins the best person to take us forward within a revised business model
if not who is? I am not sure there is a readily available answer.
Whatever TS decides he can't leave NA in charge much longer if there are no signs of improvement. We can't risk getting involved in a relegation battle.
Hopefully it's just the time difference to Colorado holding up the news. Can't believe he's going to get Saturday at Fleetwood too after last night's debacle
GOD, I hope that Thomas has set an early alarm call back in Colorado, and gets the deed done asap, we can't keep on with the same rhetoric of the "one more game" stuff any more..and while he is at it some serious reading of the riot act to JJ and Jason will be needed. Let's at least try and get some stability back into the club , we can't go to Fleetwood in the same vain hope that it will be alright on the night, 'cos it clearly won't be..this club is dying on it's feet and it sickens me to see this happening..
Sometimes it’s best to sleep on making a decision like TS has to make, be that back or sack. I’m glad it’s not been a knee jerk off the back of last nights result. I’m hoping Thomas is at this point looking for good advice (Curbishley and Varney) before doing anything.
Can't believe NA is still here, keep refreshing this expecting an announcement
the romantic in me wants JJ to get the job and I hope he's got his own (different) style and ideas and is able to drag us out of this mess. It'll elevate his already god like status
I get the clamour for Curbs but this is a guy who is 64 in a few weeks and hasn't managed for over 13 years. I love the guy, but personally for me after so long out of the game he isn't the answer.
And remember how bad his football was in the last 12 months .. awful negative football went to West Ham and got found out big time
You aint all there are you pal
Just ignore him - he purely posts to get a reaction out of people. Once he does he has a crafty w@nk at home to celebrate. Pure WUM.
I appreciate Grapevine’s posts. But for all of the considerations made regarding the business model and stability, I can’t help but think it’s a far too complicated analysis.
Football at League 1 level remains a simple game and the Charlton style of play has never been complex. We as fans demand commitment, organisation and effort, with a sprinkling of talent and that has for most of our history served us well.
When we talk of who could replace Adkins, there are huge numbers of options. TS doesn’t need to reinvent the club or game overnight. Take it back getting the simple things right with this group and then find some consistency to build upon.
Really don’t think shit like this is very helpful or necessary.
It can't make matters much worse tbf. Only one further place to drop. Smashed 4-1 at home by a club that was in freefall last few years and looked poor.
There is a pattern emerging, since TS has taken over two well respected mangers have seemed to have lost the plot and acted out of character, trying strange formations and continually chopping and changing the team with terrible results on the pitch. I’ve no idea if that’s because of TS, Roddy, poor recruitment or just a coincidence but something in the grand plan is not working at the moment.
Comments
Jackson and Euell can take charge for Fleetwood (and the Pizza game next week), which may or may not give a temporary boost
As for permanent choices, I'd rather go for someone on the way up, not someone on the way down, clinging on to their managerial career, which in retrospect is what the Adkins appointment feels like (ditto Slade). However dismal we may be on the pitch, compared to most L1 and L2 clubs we're still a really attractive job, with the resources and fanbase we have. There will be managers in L1 thinking that their clubs have reached their ceiling, where it's hard to go any higher and even if they do, they'll go straight down, whereas Charlton ought to be competitive in the Championship.
Do we simply stomach it?
Would assume if there is nothing by early afternoon, he will take the team Saturday.
He's gonna get another week by the looks of it
I commented « for a job interview (with the new board) it was a very bad night »
Last night was a very bad night.
The challenge however goes far deeper than just one night and one man.
It argues as to why Mr Sandgaard bought* the club in the first place
* In addressing this aspect can we dismiss this nonsense about other investors and an Administration rescuing our situation. It is utter nonsense.
The club is in a parlous state after a decade of abuse where Baton 2010 begat Jiminez (property) begat Duchâtelet ( property) begat ESI (fuck knows). Different folks, different playbooks, different agenda.
We are diminished. The Stadium, Training Ground are no longer ours. Nobody was going to pay the asking price. ESI was allegedly « the get out of jail » card RD bought. Trading liabilities are gone. Ex directors can wait. Leverage is done.
Mr Adkins? The challenge is far deeper than just one night and one man.
NA is an extremely well qualified coach and a very decent guy. So please keep your one dimensional playground juvenile insults to yourself.
It starts with the simple question of just how and why is, for an important League 1 fixture, £1mn of talent and probably a very expensive loanee not on the pitch.
The club has invested in Arter, Kirk, Stockley, Jaiyesimi. It is not a good look.
Sandgaard spent considerable money in legal expertise and other areas acquiring the club. I suspect he did research into a sustainable business model.
TS, GR, SG, NA and SA all signed into the business model.
TS has implemented;
- a new recruitment team
- new recruitment analytics and procedures
- a new one club culture evidenced by 51 full professional contracts
After a decade of chaos he is intent on stability and sustainable growth.
The ambition is rarely the problem. It is a matter of how and when you implement change.
It was debatable whether you implement all of the new elements at this time.
I wouldn’t have. I regarded the brand as too weak, the infrastructure too fragile, the culture too febrile. Years of neglect driven by poisonous self interest can creep into the very fibre of the business.
Each & every one of those elements will present significant challenges to any Head Coach at any time.
We missed 4 key preseason milestones NA was on a hiding to nothing.
Does TS? Do we have a right to expect better from NA, JJ, JE and the players?
Absolutely, but it is foolish to ignore the mitigating circumstances to simply blow it all up and start all over again after 10 weeks. Stability? Revolving doors?
You want to continue the chaos of 2008/ 2009? Peninsular Dev. Opps? 2011 /2012? Liege player dumps 2014? Player trading punts 2015/2016? Stakeholder Wars 2017/2018? Investment pipe dreams & Luxury Cars 2019/2020?
I recognise the pain but the next steps are key to the existence of the club.
If Adkins goes who else in the EFL is going to sign into the business model?
If you are going to rip up the business model where next for Sandgaard?
Murray, Chappell, The 25, Jiminez, Duchâtelet, ESI, Sandgaard how many more?
TS, GR, SG, NA and SA need to revisit the business model, it’s timings and operations to find a way forward. Whether NA still has a role to play and what role that maybe will come out of those discussions.
The entire process appears to be far more complicated than it needs to be. Complexity confuses people. The players appear palpably confused.
a) is Adkins equipped with the skills and resources to take us forward.
b) is Adkins the best person to take us forward within a revised business model
if not who is? I am not sure there is a readily available answer.
Change for the better is good. Change for the sake of it delivers very little.
Worrying.
We can't risk getting involved in a relegation battle.
TS has to have a timescale.
Let's at least try and get some stability back into the club , we can't go to Fleetwood in the same vain hope that it will be alright on the night, 'cos it clearly won't be..this club is dying on it's feet and it sickens me to see this happening..
the romantic in me wants JJ to get the job and I hope he's got his own (different) style and ideas and is able to drag us out of this mess. It'll elevate his already god like status
Football at League 1 level remains a simple game and the Charlton style of play has never been complex. We as fans demand commitment, organisation and effort, with a sprinkling of talent and that has for most of our history served us well.