Major, major moment in wrestling history. And the fact that it comes for WWE’s biggest competition in 20 years makes it that more significant.
AEW have just pulled off one of the most speculated returns ever. How could you not want to root for this company?
Not really rooting for either side, just enjoying the ride.
Exciting times ahead
I didn’t mean it as a case of taking sides, but more just a case of wanting AEW to do well. It’s very healthy for the business for there to be a 2nd exciting company in the business again.
Would like to think that this would be the kick up the arse that WWE needs but Vince and his yes men are so set in their ways that I really can't see them changing anything for the better in the short term.
Would like to think that this would be the kick up the arse that WWE needs but Vince and his yes men are so set in their ways that I really can't see them changing anything for the better in the short term.
The reason for that is simple, they don't have to.
When the business model was selling live events and PPVs you had to have a match that would draw, or 2 or 3 because would wouldn't have everyone at every show.
Now the event sells itself, or doesn't, and the WWE make their money through being paid to provide content by the networks and selling merchandise.
It's been true for a long time that the name WWE draws more than anyone that has worked for the WWE.
The 3 things I am intrested in other than watching it are
What happens to AEWs TV ratings over the next 3 months Who AEW release when they start releasing people If/when/who the WWE sign from AEW
Oh and a 4th is if WWE release anyone significant that doesn't go to AEW but goes somewhere else.
WWE is enjoying it's most profitable era, despite Covid 2020 was its most profitable year, there won't be a kick up the arse. The Punk return was very special but let's see where we are in a years time. Punk is a polarising character back stage, Colt Cobana won't be happy.
AEW must have already drawn more than Impact ever did?
WWE is enjoying it's most profitable era, despite Covid 2020 was its most profitable year, there won't be a kick up the arse. The Punk return was very special but let's see where we are in a years time. Punk is a polarising character back stage, Colt Cobana won't be happy.
AEW must have already drawn more than Impact ever did?
AEW have higher PPV buy rates than anything TNA ever did. Their TV ratings are quite a bit lower but that's partly because less people watch it on TV.
Remember TNA regularly had people on their TV who 10 million people had seen on TV during the attitude era. I think TNAs biggest ever TV rating was about 2.5 million for RVD winning the title. That was head to head with RAW as well. RAWs biggest number for a whole show is about 8 and a segment just over 10 for the Rick's this is your life.
I don't think you'll ever get those numbers again because of the way TV has changed.
That's pretty remarkable when you look at how many stars TNA had at one stage. Angle was a big deal for them but didn't produce a challenge to WWE.
No one will ever produce a challenge, by any measurable metric. When WCW were beating them it was by being "WWF but better" and it couldn't maintain it because they didn't really know how they did it.
NXT has been a much better product than RAW and Smackdown for a long time yet lags well behind in the ratings.
JCP, AWA, ROH, ECW, SMW, TNA and many others have put on cards that are better than WWE/F ones but they did have the promotional knowhow or the brand recognition.
That's not right. WCW was very different to WWF. They were aiming for the 18-30 demographic and WWF was aiming for families, which they're doing again now. WWF changed to be like WCW but better. The reason WCW collapsed was due to corporate restructuring and Ted Turner having less of a say. When you look at the state of wcw pre Bischoff and how despite being a substandard show towards the end it was still getting decent ratings you'll see the WWF history is written by the winner take on it isn't correct. They also used the invasion angle to further bury wcw rather than make money. 🤷🏻♂️
Would like to think that this would be the kick up the arse that WWE needs but Vince and his yes men are so set in their ways that I really can't see them changing anything for the better in the short term.
The reason for that is simple, they don't have to.
When the business model was selling live events and PPVs you had to have a match that would draw, or 2 or 3 because would wouldn't have everyone at every show.
Now the event sells itself, or doesn't, and the WWE make their money through being paid to provide content by the networks and selling merchandise.
It's been true for a long time that the name WWE draws more than anyone that has worked for the WWE.
The 3 things I am intrested in other than watching it are
What happens to AEWs TV ratings over the next 3 months Who AEW release when they start releasing people If/when/who the WWE sign from AEW
Oh and a 4th is if WWE release anyone significant that doesn't go to AEW but goes somewhere else.
And that's why it won't improve. Fox must be annoyed that they let Punk slip through their fingers.
The money WWE has been making is extraordinary. They’ve got to a point where the actual quality of the content doesn’t really reflect what they make - which is a shame. The shows in Saudi Arabia and the enormous network deals take care of them.
The thing with AEW is that whilst they’ll bring in some established names like Punk, Black, Moxley etc - the smart fans who those characters appeal to are already watching.
The reason WWE can achieve the ratings they get is simply because they are WWE. And your casual viewer probably isn’t yet aware of the alternative that is AEW (well maybe a lot more now because of CM Punk). But there is room for both it seems.
What would REALLY hurt WWE is if a truly big current star jumped ship (Roman Reigns, John Cena) which probably won’t happen.
The money WWE has been making is extraordinary. They’ve got to a point where the actual quality of the content doesn’t really reflect what they make - which is a shame. The shows in Saudi Arabia and the enormous network deals take care of them.
The thing with AEW is that whilst they’ll bring in some established names like Punk, Black, Moxley etc - the smart fans who those characters appeal to are already watching.
The reason WWE can achieve the ratings they get is simply because they are WWE. And your casual viewer probably isn’t yet aware of the alternative that is AEW (well maybe a lot more now because of CM Punk). But there is room for both it seems.
What would REALLY hurt WWE is if a truly big current star jumped ship (Roman Reigns, John Cena) which probably won’t happen.
It wouldn't hurt them. The 100s of people across 3 rosters with dozens of titles is deliberately done so no one is indispensable.
Cena preempts the quantity over quantity era and Reigns isn't comparable out side of the bubble.
The point about smart fans is true, although I don't think smart is the right word. People that like that sort of thing are already watching it though.
The money WWE has been making is extraordinary. They’ve got to a point where the actual quality of the content doesn’t really reflect what they make - which is a shame. The shows in Saudi Arabia and the enormous network deals take care of them.
The thing with AEW is that whilst they’ll bring in some established names like Punk, Black, Moxley etc - the smart fans who those characters appeal to are already watching.
The reason WWE can achieve the ratings they get is simply because they are WWE. And your casual viewer probably isn’t yet aware of the alternative that is AEW (well maybe a lot more now because of CM Punk). But there is room for both it seems.
What would REALLY hurt WWE is if a truly big current star jumped ship (Roman Reigns, John Cena) which probably won’t happen.
It wouldn't hurt them. The 100s of people across 3 rosters with dozens of titles is deliberately done so no one is indispensable.
Cena preempts the quantity over quantity era and Reigns isn't comparable out side of the bubble.
The point about smart fans is true, although I don't think smart is the right word. People that like that sort of thing are already watching it though.
I agree. Kurt Angle was one of their top guys when he left it had no affect at all.
That's not right. WCW was very different to WWF. They were aiming for the 18-30 demographic and WWF was aiming for families, which they're doing again now. WWF changed to be like WCW but better. The reason WCW collapsed was due to corporate restructuring and Ted Turner having less of a say. When you look at the state of wcw pre Bischoff and how despite being a substandard show towards the end it was still getting decent ratings you'll see the WWF history is written by the winner take on it isn't correct. They also used the invasion angle to further bury wcw rather than make money. 🤷🏻♂️
The invasion angle is probably the worst booked "thing" in wrestling history. Wrestle mania 18 should have been the biggest supercard ever put together. But Vince bined the whole thing after Booker T and Buff Bagwell got booed out the building.
WCW finally collapsed because AOL took over and wouldn't let WCW lose the money it was losing and they wouldn't let anyone buy WCW with the TV slot, as Bishoff tried to do. The reason WCW started getting comparable in ratings etc was the WWE stars they nicked and they got Hogan Flair right (because the old WCW and JCP fans wanted to see Flair kick Hogan's arse), and actually made money with it, which Vince failed to do, that gave them the momentum to get Hall and Nash etc etc. That's not WWE revisionist.
A lot of the 83 weeks WCW had better "wrestling" especially the cruiser weights etc but unfortunately that's not what draws the ratings else ROH and NXT would have blown RAW out the water for years.
If AOL Time Warner wanted rid of WCW because it was losing money, why didn't they sell it to Bischoff? Pretty sure he offered more than $2m. The clue is in your next point, they didn't want it on their TV. They thought wrestling was beneath them. Look at some of the hilarious comments on this thread from some non-fans.
The losses is also more complex. The big stars at time warner contracts, hence not being in the invasion burial. Also $30m loss in 2000 is chicken feed for a corporation that size and the ratings were still great and brought in lots of advertising which didn't get recorded with WCW's books. In short, WCW wasn't a cash draining disaster and had made millions a couple of years earlier. It was savable.
Ratings didn't pick up until the NWO, which was booked as a WWF invasion, what could have been eh? That was more storyline based than wrestling quality. Were you the poster who said Flair was unknown to WWF audience and now saying there was money in Flair v Hogan?! Hogan beat Flair in every match which goes against what you're saying about giving the fans what they want. I think Flair only won at Uncensored '99 which i still have on VHS. 🤓
Anywoo, here's Jim Cornette talking about the Cm punk debut.
If AOL Time Warner wanted rid of WCW because it was losing money, why didn't they sell it to Bischoff? Pretty sure he offered more than $2m. The clue is in your next point, they didn't want it on their TV. They thought wrestling was beneath them. Look at some of the hilarious comments on this thread from some non-fans.
The losses is also more complex. The big stars at time warner contracts, hence not being in the invasion burial. Also $30m loss in 2000 is chicken feed for a corporation that size and the ratings were still great and brought in lots of advertising which didn't get recorded with WCW's books. In short, WCW wasn't a cash draining disaster and had made millions a couple of years earlier. It was savable.
Ratings didn't pick up until the NWO, which was booked as a WWF invasion, what could have been eh? That was more storyline based than wrestling quality. Were you the poster who said Flair was unknown to WWF audience and now saying there was money in Flair v Hogan?! Hogan beat Flair in every match which goes against what you're saying about giving the fans what they want. I think Flair only won at Uncensored '99 which i still have on VHS. 🤓
Anywoo, here's Jim Cornette talking about the Cm punk debut.
Yes that's what I said AOL didn't want it on their TV so WCW was available but no TV sot, hence the Eric didn't/couldn't buy it. Vince also had the upper hand from some court settlement years before that gave him an option to buy WCW if it was ever for sale. I can't remember what case it was, was it the Nash and Hall copyright one?
WCW made 30 million in 1998, I think it's biggest year? By 2000 they were losing over 60.
The highlighted point was exactly my point. When Hogan Flair was on the WWF house show loop it didn't draw, because the core WWF audience didn't want to see it. Which is exactly what I said before. That's one of the reasons it was not the main event at WM8. It was the perfect match for WCW because it appealed to the current base WCW fans and WWF fans that still wanted to see Hogan. Which is exactly the opposite of the WWF run.
You would think WCW booking it to great success 2 years later would have ended the arguement. Both said Vince made a mistake and they wrestled this century in WWE. Genuinely never heard anyone say Hogan Sid was the right move before.
You would think WCW booking it to great success 2 years later would have ended the arguement. Both said Vince made a mistake and they wrestled this century in WWE. Genuinely never heard anyone say Hogan Sid was the right move before.
I wouldn't use a Hulk Hogan quote to prove anything. The guy who worked 400 days a year, brother.
Its the most excited Ive been watching wrestling since Scott Hall walked onto Nitro in 1996. We still have Bryan Danielson at the New York Dynamite and (possibly) Bray Wyatt to come in AEW!
Thought Summerslam was decent. Both tag matches were good, Rollins and edge was class. Main event delivered.
Really hoping for Rousey v Lynch at Mania. Do wonder whether they will get the insurance to let Dwayne wrestle Reigns. Beating Lesnar and working Dwayne would probably Reigns championship run as one of the greatest.
It does feel like it’s going to take a Lesnar type for them to let Reigns finally lose, as I really can’t see who else would be anywhere near convincing enough at this point.
Oh, and please don’t ever let Goldberg near the ring again.
Comments
AEW have just pulled off one of the most speculated returns ever. How could you not want to root for this company?
Exciting times ahead
When the business model was selling live events and PPVs you had to have a match that would draw, or 2 or 3 because would wouldn't have everyone at every show.
Now the event sells itself, or doesn't, and the WWE make their money through being paid to provide content by the networks and selling merchandise.
It's been true for a long time that the name WWE draws more than anyone that has worked for the WWE.
The 3 things I am intrested in other than watching it are
What happens to AEWs TV ratings over the next 3 months
Who AEW release when they start releasing people
If/when/who the WWE sign from AEW
Oh and a 4th is if WWE release anyone significant that doesn't go to AEW but goes somewhere else.
AEW must have already drawn more than Impact ever did?
Remember TNA regularly had people on their TV who 10 million people had seen on TV during the attitude era. I think TNAs biggest ever TV rating was about 2.5 million for RVD winning the title. That was head to head with RAW as well. RAWs biggest number for a whole show is about 8 and a segment just over 10 for the Rick's this is your life.
I don't think you'll ever get those numbers again because of the way TV has changed.
NXT has been a much better product than RAW and Smackdown for a long time yet lags well behind in the ratings.
JCP, AWA, ROH, ECW, SMW, TNA and many others have put on cards that are better than WWE/F ones but they did have the promotional knowhow or the brand recognition.
The thing with AEW is that whilst they’ll bring in some established names like Punk, Black, Moxley etc - the smart fans who those characters appeal to are already watching.
Cena preempts the quantity over quantity era and Reigns isn't comparable out side of the bubble.
The point about smart fans is true, although I don't think smart is the right word. People that like that sort of thing are already watching it though.
WCW finally collapsed because AOL took over and wouldn't let WCW lose the money it was losing and they wouldn't let anyone buy WCW with the TV slot, as Bishoff tried to do. The reason WCW started getting comparable in ratings etc was the WWE stars they nicked and they got Hogan Flair right (because the old WCW and JCP fans wanted to see Flair kick Hogan's arse), and actually made money with it, which Vince failed to do, that gave them the momentum to get Hall and Nash etc etc. That's not WWE revisionist.
A lot of the 83 weeks WCW had better "wrestling" especially the cruiser weights etc but unfortunately that's not what draws the ratings else ROH and NXT would have blown RAW out the water for years.
The losses is also more complex. The big stars at time warner contracts, hence not being in the invasion burial. Also $30m loss in 2000 is chicken feed for a corporation that size and the ratings were still great and brought in lots of advertising which didn't get recorded with WCW's books. In short, WCW wasn't a cash draining disaster and had made millions a couple of years earlier. It was savable.
Ratings didn't pick up until the NWO, which was booked as a WWF invasion, what could have been eh? That was more storyline based than wrestling quality. Were you the poster who said Flair was unknown to WWF audience and now saying there was money in Flair v Hogan?! Hogan beat Flair in every match which goes against what you're saying about giving the fans what they want. I think Flair only won at Uncensored '99 which i still have on VHS. 🤓
Anywoo, here's Jim Cornette talking about the Cm punk debut.
WCW made 30 million in 1998, I think it's biggest year? By 2000 they were losing over 60.
The highlighted point was exactly my point. When Hogan Flair was on the WWF house show loop it didn't draw, because the core WWF audience didn't want to see it. Which is exactly what I said before. That's one of the reasons it was not the main event at WM8. It was the perfect match for WCW because it appealed to the current base WCW fans and WWF fans that still wanted to see Hogan. Which is exactly the opposite of the WWF run.
The acting and all round capability of him Shawn Michaels and triple h was very good.
The unique stand out characters.
Really hoping for Rousey v Lynch at Mania. Do wonder whether they will get the insurance to let Dwayne wrestle Reigns. Beating Lesnar and working Dwayne would probably Reigns championship run as one of the greatest.
Thought Summerslam was great. It felt like a wrestlemania
The kentuky fried Howard Stern is on top form and a fitting tribute to one of his best friends.
Oh, and please don’t ever let Goldberg near the ring again.