Like most of you, I am sick of Bowyer’s constant tinkering/unnecessary changes - both before & during the matches. But he doesn’t seem to be learning from these errors & I expect he will make another batch of changes for Rochdale - most probably he will drop Albie & Schwartz, possibly Shinnie, Pratley or Matthews whilst reinstating Millar, Watson, Chuks & the new bloke with the silly name.
Like most of you, I am sick of Bowyer’s constant tinkering/unnecessary changes - both before & during the matches. But he doesn’t seem to be learning from these errors & I expect he will make another batch of changes for Rochdale - most probably he will drop Albie & Schwartz, possibly Shinnie, Pratley or Matthews whilst reinstating Millar, Watson, Chuks & the new bloke with the silly name.
Jaiyesimi? Or Smith?
It must be a nightmare for commentators and armchair listeners. I mean, there are literally dozens of players called Smith across the leagues.
I think Bowyer is paradoxically both too set in his ways and too insistent on changing things.
By which I mean, he knew he wanted to rest Maatsen for Purrington last match, and knew he wanted to bring Maatsen in for the game after that. Just like he knew he wanted to rest Millar. The actual context of the game before/the postponement didn’t matter.
It’s the same reason Morgan seems to play every other game. He seems to want to make changes each time and ignores anything else.
Like you know every match regardless of how they’re playing, there’s going to be subs on the 60th minute. I said to the wife “He’ll bring on Chuks on the 60th” and literally the clock was at 60:02 when Chuks was stripped off at the sideline. I don’t think he reads games or adapts anymore. He’s got his plan and he’ll stick to it.
It’s annoying because the plan seems to be to change the team every match so even if you play a blinder it makes no difference.
Bowyer's 60 minute subs are like rugby subs, where you know that one of the props will be replaced at 60, the other at 65 and the hooker at 70. Predetermined subs based on sports science rather than because player X is playing badly.
When is enough enough ? We have now won 4 games in our last 17.
Is it when we win 5 in 20....?
Or when we win 6 in 23 ?
Week in & week out I read that its a blip, we won 6 on the trot, wait for the "big 2" to come back.....blah blah blah.
Will you now accept that he has taken us as far as he can.
I asked the question on the Bowyer Out thread but unfortunately no one has provided an answer
Should Curbs and Gritt have been sacked in 92/93 when we went on a similar run where we got 14-points from 17-games whereas we've gone 18-points from 17-games at the present...? - There is absolutely zero patience amongst Football fans anymore
For me its not a case he cant be at fault for anything, even I've been critical in recent weeks
But for me he gets a period into next season depending on results, gets a proper summer to work in pre-season @ Sparrows Lane and on a Training Camp to actually build a squad that is built on unity. This team has been rushed, its been put together in a panicked mess, its like sticking up a wall without any foundations and hoping it can do the job its there for.
The teams around us, how many of them have had to build virtually from scratch AGAIN this season... Instead I imagine they've put together a team of players that has been improved over the seasons to the point its strong enough to mount a serious promotion challenge
Regardless of who the Manager is next season, this summer HAS to be the last time that happens
We talk about recovering from Roland's era, we talk about the damage ESI have done, its going to take time to recover as a Football club.
But we wont get anywhere as a team without a stable team that is constantly being replaced and changed every season
Gritt was sacked. Why? Because the team selection changed each match due to two bosses. Once the selection was stable our fortunes changed so your analogy doesn't hold up I'm afraid.
It would be madness to give a clearly failing manager a summer budget to change more recently signed players because he can't decide his best line up and formation.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
What right do you have to tell any of us to "go support elsewhere". You are not exclusive, I am in my 60's and have been supporting Charlton since I was 10. I have seen the highs and the lows and the damn near desperate.
There are a lot of well educated people on here and you can see from some of the comments that they have played, and understand football. Lee has got it wrong "a lot of times" and if that frustrates people then so be it, its all part of supporting a team.
Just because people comment on this forum does not mean they are ready to turn their backs on the club and if you find some of the threads "bile & boring" the best thing to do is not open them and read them. Stick to the threads that you do enjoy.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
What right do you have to tell any of us to "go support elsewhere". You are not exclusive, I am in my 60's and have been supporting Charlton since I was 10. I have seen the highs and the lows and the damn near desperate.
There are a lot of well educated people on here and you can see from some of the comments that they have played, and understand football. Lee has got it wrong "a lot of times" and if that frustrates people then so be it, its all part of supporting a team.
Just because people comment on this forum does not mean they are ready to turn their backs on the club and if you find some of the threads "bile & boring" the best thing to do is not open them and read them. Stick to the threads that you do enjoy.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
While I think sometimes people in their frustration go over the top,do you honestly think that just because people make adverse comments about players and management that they dont love the club,as much as you.It is common practice in football to get the raving hump when things go wrong,always has been and always will be,so people are entitled to express their opinions.I have also had 65 years of it and have obviously experienced periods at the club that make the present times look wonderful,but I will still bawl out players and management when justified.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
In fact people are so passionate because they are concerned for their club.
Just because we are supporters of the club does not mean we like seeing the team lose and draw games week in and week out that we could and more often than not this season, should have won.
I have been a Charlton fan since 1993, 28 years of watching and loving Charlton the Club. That's over 85% of my life!
Sure you could say I have seen a lot of highs in that time but it still works out as many seasons of mid table football for the leagues we have been in, no matter the level. 2 Promotions to the PL 1 relegation to Division 1 1 relegation to the Championship 2 promotions to the Championship 3 relegations to League 1 Next season if we fail to get promoted, I will have seen us as much in the third tier of English football as I have the first. We have spent 14 seasons in the second tier in my time
I am loyal to this club through highs and lows, but maybe the scars left by the Duchatelet era do have some of us ( I know I am one of them) showing less patience when a manager is not getting results.
Either way whatever my view be it positive or negative (it has definitely been more negative since RD era) I stick with Charlton through it. That's been the way for 28 years. It's not going to change now that some rando on a football forum has told people that are complaining and concerned to go support somewhere else! Whatever that means?
Maybe I'm more deflated than previous seasons as am watching every single home and away game. I expect us to do better but if just catching up with the results, I probably would have stuck to my thoughts at the Crooks/TS saviour time that this season can be no more than assembling a good squad who can compete for promotion in 2 seasons time.
Not sure what the current stat is on our average position since 4 league set-up, but a few years ago, I think it was 30th/92. When I looked a bit closer our league record almost mirrored Barnsley. Yes Barnsley, so before we get all massive heads like Wednesday fans, let's remember we are little Charlton with no more right to success than, well Barnsley.
All football fans complain about managers, players, owners, results, stadiums, etc and when that's not enough even 'CHIPS'. We are on this forum because we are all fans which is a shortening of 'Fanatic'. We are obsessed. Why the hell would any of us come on here every day (you know you do) and read (and contribute) to threads about players that left our club after a few games and went on to bigger and better or even worse things.
Charlton and Charlton Life are things for the obsessed and the passion that flows through this forum is evident. There is no right or wrong, only objective views, with conjecture being the prevailing theme.
There should be no questioning the love we all have for our club. Opinion is rarely factual except WIOTOS.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
Like most of you, I am sick of Bowyer’s constant tinkering/unnecessary changes - both before & during the matches.
But he doesn’t seem to be learning from these errors & I expect he will make another batch of changes for Rochdale - most probably he will drop Albie & Schwartz, possibly Shinnie, Pratley or Matthews whilst reinstating Millar, Watson, Chuks & the new bloke with the silly name.
I bet he doesn't start DJ ...... he'll feel the need to first thoroughly 'Charltonise' the poor lad.
DJ will eventually start once he's had the spark and creativity knocked out of him in training.
JFC has done well lately. but it became apparent Tuesday wasn't going to be his game. Albie was a bit good and bad, but was far more likely to do something positive, but was taken off. I can understand that being a pre match plan, but you are allowed to look what is happening and act accordingly.
Couldn't bring myself to contribute to this thread after the game, was too bloody peeved and depressed. I thought, and still do, that we had an excellent transfer window and that Bowyer had rejigged the squad to exactly what he wanted going forward. I said on that thread, that now it was time to deliver. I wasn't expecting instantaneous perfection; but surely at least the green shoots of a recognisable game plan, cohesive team work and our best 11 sent out with purpose and belief. Instead; no Millar, no Chuks, Schwarz selected but without any visible sign of who and how he was going to get the kind of service he needs - other than perhaps if he got lucky with a knock-down from the excellent Stockley. I don't know, maybe my disappointment and ire are heightened due to the cumulative effect of 18 months of losses and disjointed performances. Or maybe expectation levels are too high as a result of getting an owner expecting PL football in 5 years - that is, we haven't got the patience for failure or treading water. Whatever it is, even I am starting to doubt Bows now. We need to start winning games now - but more than that I want to see evidence of "the plan"
I think Bowyer is paradoxically both too set in his ways and too insistent on changing things.
By which I mean, he knew he wanted to rest Maatsen for Purrington last match, and knew he wanted to bring Maatsen in for the game after that. Just like he knew he wanted to rest Millar. The actual context of the game before/the postponement didn’t matter.
It’s the same reason Morgan seems to play every other game. He seems to want to make changes each time and ignores anything else.
Like you know every match regardless of how they’re playing, there’s going to be subs on the 60th minute. I said to the wife “He’ll bring on Chuks on the 60th” and literally the clock was at 60:02 when Chuks was stripped off at the sideline. I don’t think he reads games or adapts anymore. He’s got his plan and he’ll stick to it.
It’s annoying because the plan seems to be to change the team every match so even if you play a blinder it makes no difference.
Which causes the players to maybe dip a bit as they know they will be replaced the next game no matter what. I think Bowyer is so hung up on the 'I need to keep my players fresh' model, that he is ignoring what's in front of his nose.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
The whole point of football forums is to express your opinions otherwise what's the point of being on here? I like many have been supporting Charlton since I was 4 or 5 regularly attending games, and feel as passionate as ever about my club so if you don't like the 'whinging' don't open the thread mate.
I think Bowyer is paradoxically both too set in his ways and too insistent on changing things.
By which I mean, he knew he wanted to rest Maatsen for Purrington last match, and knew he wanted to bring Maatsen in for the game after that. Just like he knew he wanted to rest Millar. The actual context of the game before/the postponement didn’t matter.
It’s the same reason Morgan seems to play every other game. He seems to want to make changes each time and ignores anything else.
Like you know every match regardless of how they’re playing, there’s going to be subs on the 60th minute. I said to the wife “He’ll bring on Chuks on the 60th” and literally the clock was at 60:02 when Chuks was stripped off at the sideline. I don’t think he reads games or adapts anymore. He’s got his plan and he’ll stick to it.
It’s annoying because the plan seems to be to change the team every match so even if you play a blinder it makes no difference.
Which causes the players to maybe dip a bit as they know they will be replaced the next game no matter what. I think Bowyer is so hung up on the 'I need to keep my players fresh' model, that he is ignoring what's in front of his nose.
Like I have been saying, for what feels like forever, he is still trying to combat last seasons problems.
I think Bowyer is paradoxically both too set in his ways and too insistent on changing things.
By which I mean, he knew he wanted to rest Maatsen for Purrington last match, and knew he wanted to bring Maatsen in for the game after that. Just like he knew he wanted to rest Millar. The actual context of the game before/the postponement didn’t matter.
It’s the same reason Morgan seems to play every other game. He seems to want to make changes each time and ignores anything else.
Like you know every match regardless of how they’re playing, there’s going to be subs on the 60th minute. I said to the wife “He’ll bring on Chuks on the 60th” and literally the clock was at 60:02 when Chuks was stripped off at the sideline. I don’t think he reads games or adapts anymore. He’s got his plan and he’ll stick to it.
It’s annoying because the plan seems to be to change the team every match so even if you play a blinder it makes no difference.
Which causes the players to maybe dip a bit as they know they will be replaced the next game no matter what. I think Bowyer is so hung up on the 'I need to keep my players fresh' model, that he is ignoring what's in front of his nose.
Like I have been saying, for what feels like forever, he is still trying to combat last seasons problems.
Which it true (and I happen to agree with you) begs the question of how long does that keep happening? Because his whole demeanor and tactical approach has changed and not for the better.
If we could get the early, bullish, take no prisoners Bowyer back I'd be happy enough to see him continue in the job.
But at the moment it seems that Lee Bowyer's worst enemy is himself. If he really is stuck in that rut psychologically then there's no reason to expect next season to go any better than this one.
There are different answers to different problems. At the moment, he would bring some things to the defence that it is currently missing. With Inniss and Famewo back, we may not need what he brings.
Not sure what the current stat is on our average position since 4 league set-up, but a few years ago, I think it was 30th/92. When I looked a bit closer our league record almost mirrored Barnsley. Yes Barnsley, so before we get all massive heads like Wednesday fans, let's remember we are little Charlton with no more right to success than, well Barnsley.
All football fans complain about managers, players, owners, results, stadiums, etc and when that's not enough even 'CHIPS'. We are on this forum because we are all fans which is a shortening of 'Fanatic'. We are obsessed. Why the hell would any of us come on here every day (you know you do) and read (and contribute) to threads about players that left our club after a few games and went on to bigger and better or even worse things.
Charlton and Charlton Life are things for the obsessed and the passion that flows through this forum is evident. There is no right or wrong, only objective views, with conjecture being the prevailing theme.
There should be no questioning the love we all have for our club. Opinion is rarely factual except WIOTOS.
30th would be 10th in the Championship
On a ppg basis we're currently 10th in L1, or 54th/92
I suspect our average has sagged a bit from 30th, but even then we're a long way below our "natural" level which to me is mid table Championship.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
The whole point of football forums is to express your opinions otherwise what's the point of being on here? I like many have been supporting Charlton since I was 4 or 5 regularly attending games, and feel as passionate as ever about my club so if you don't like the 'whinging' don't open the thread mate.
ignore him , he's a wind up - if we can't discuss the team and management of it, what can we discuss?
he might not be the final answer but a steady eddy left back when your centre halfs are dodgy is logical and resulted in our first clean sheet for ages
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
The whole point of football forums is to express your opinions otherwise what's the point of being on here? I like many have been supporting Charlton since I was 4 or 5 regularly attending games, and feel as passionate as ever about my club so if you don't like the 'whinging' don't open the thread mate.
ignore him , he's a wind up - if we can't discuss the team and management of it, what can we discuss?
Pot holes, mascots, chips, veggie options, the absence of scarffie?
he might not be the final answer but a steady eddy left back when your centre halfs are dodgy is logical and resulted in our first clean sheet for ages
At this level Purrington is a very decent LB; it's getting forward which is not his strongest point, which is where the Chelsea lad looks good. Also I thought Purrington and Millar worked well together at MK, and we looked defensively solid down that flank.
Good point @Doucher regarding the makeshift CBs. I've also noticed people have been digging out Matthews ........ but not really taking into account that not only is he often exposed by lack of cover in front of him, he's not had a proper centre half next to him either.
Wow, just ploughed through all the expert analysis and am gobsmsacked why Lee Bowyer has not been replaced by at least one of the keyboard wonders on here.
If only they could be in charge of things. CAFC would be a force to be reckoned with in the Champions League.
Lee has got it wrong at times. Players get it wrong at times. He and they, have been trying their best. Only certain posters are perfect, of course.
There are many of us that are used to the ups and downs - wins and losses - joy and despair - often a surprise because after all, this is Charlton. They have been f'ing me up for over 65 years and I still love them.
As for the rest of the whinging 'Experts', Go 'Support' somewhere else. The bile is boring.
Comments
It would be madness to give a clearly failing manager a summer budget to change more recently signed players because he can't decide his best line up and formation.
There are a lot of well educated people on here and you can see from some of the comments that they have played, and understand football. Lee has got it wrong "a lot of times" and if that frustrates people then so be it, its all part of supporting a team.
Just because people comment on this forum does not mean they are ready to turn their backs on the club and if you find some of the threads "bile & boring" the best thing to do is not open them and read them. Stick to the threads that you do enjoy.
Just because we are supporters of the club does not mean we like seeing the team lose and draw games week in and week out that we could and more often than not this season, should have won.
I have been a Charlton fan since 1993, 28 years of watching and loving Charlton the Club. That's over 85% of my life!
Sure you could say I have seen a lot of highs in that time but it still works out as many seasons of mid table football for the leagues we have been in, no matter the level.
2 Promotions to the PL
1 relegation to Division 1
1 relegation to the Championship
2 promotions to the Championship
3 relegations to League 1
Next season if we fail to get promoted, I will have seen us as much in the third tier of English football as I have the first.
We have spent 14 seasons in the second tier in my time
I am loyal to this club through highs and lows, but maybe the scars left by the Duchatelet era do have some of us ( I know I am one of them) showing less patience when a manager is not getting results.
Either way whatever my view be it positive or negative (it has definitely been more negative since RD era) I stick with Charlton through it. That's been the way for 28 years. It's not going to change now that some rando on a football forum has told people that are complaining and concerned to go support somewhere else! Whatever that means?
All football fans complain about managers, players, owners, results, stadiums, etc and when that's not enough even 'CHIPS'. We are on this forum because we are all fans which is a shortening of 'Fanatic'. We are obsessed. Why the hell would any of us come on here every day (you know you do) and read (and contribute) to threads about players that left our club after a few games and went on to bigger and better or even worse things.
Charlton and Charlton Life are things for the obsessed and the passion that flows through this forum is evident. There is no right or wrong, only objective views, with conjecture being the prevailing theme.
There should be no questioning the love we all have for our club. Opinion is rarely factual except WIOTOS.
MAN ANGRY AT DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON FOOTBALL FORUM
DJ will eventually start once he's had the spark and creativity knocked out of him in training.
I thought, and still do, that we had an excellent transfer window and that Bowyer had rejigged the squad to exactly what he wanted going forward. I said on that thread, that now it was time to deliver.
I wasn't expecting instantaneous perfection; but surely at least the green shoots of a recognisable game plan, cohesive team work and our best 11 sent out with purpose and belief.
Instead; no Millar, no Chuks, Schwarz selected but without any visible sign of who and how he was going to get the kind of service he needs - other than perhaps if he got lucky with a knock-down from the excellent Stockley.
I don't know, maybe my disappointment and ire are heightened due to the cumulative effect of 18 months of losses and disjointed performances.
Or maybe expectation levels are too high as a result of getting an owner expecting PL football in 5 years - that is, we haven't got the patience for failure or treading water.
Whatever it is, even I am starting to doubt Bows now.
We need to start winning games now - but more than that I want to see evidence of "the plan"
I like many have been supporting Charlton since I was 4 or 5 regularly attending games, and feel as passionate as ever about my club so if you don't like the 'whinging' don't open the thread mate.
God knows, I wish I didn't.
If we could get the early, bullish, take no prisoners Bowyer back I'd be happy enough to see him continue in the job.
But at the moment it seems that Lee Bowyer's worst enemy is himself. If he really is stuck in that rut psychologically then there's no reason to expect next season to go any better than this one.
But is he stuck? That's the big question.
On a ppg basis we're currently 10th in L1, or 54th/92
I suspect our average has sagged a bit from 30th, but even then we're a long way below our "natural" level which to me is mid table Championship.
Also I thought Purrington and Millar worked well together at MK, and we looked defensively solid down that flank.
Good point @Doucher regarding the makeshift CBs. I've also noticed people have been digging out Matthews ........ but not really taking into account that not only is he often exposed by lack of cover in front of him, he's not had a proper centre half next to him either.
Oh yeah.
Do one.