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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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Oh Eddie Youds... said:
This is nonsense. We are falling down the table because we have no decent centre backs available. That's the problem.Bilko said:I think Bowyer quite enjoyed being the under dog boss with shit owners because he had nothing to lose. Now we have got TS it’s the 1st time he has been under pressure to perform and he doesn’t like it.
Yeah, cos we’re really making chances and putting them away at the other end.5 -
Digging players out is fine if it generates a positive reaction in the player concerned.
It clearly isnt.4 -
Give it Curbs til end of the season0 -
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.0 -
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.
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Just to point out... Lincoln play tomorrow at home to PeterboroughGarrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 4 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.
If they lose, then tonight wasnt even one of their games in hand on the League leaders... Hence why I changed your post slightly1 -
He said he was calm in the dressing room and told the players he was hurting, then gave explosive interviews. He should rant in the dressing room and be calm in public. That said it appears the Sky interview was too soon after the game, something Paul Cook alluded to.clb74 said:Bowyer needs a break for a couple of weeks.0 -
You’ve got to find solutions as a manager, see what’s going wrong and fix, we either don’t know what the problems are, or are not able to fix them, conceding 2 goals a game is always going to be hard to win games, so much seems wrong at the moment.0
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I've already pointed out to you why - even with players in their natural positions, tactics, build-up, defensive cover, all of these drills are handled by the manager and his coaches in training all week, ready for this game. The players are absolutely responsible for individual mistakes, but the team had no cohesion, no attacking options, completely out of ideas in the final third, sorry but that's on Bowyer and his team.Garrymanilow said:
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.1 -
Not sure continuing to play Gilby is currently sensible or logical - though today Bowyer was hamstrung by not having Pratley or Watson.Garrymanilow said:
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.
I have mentioned previously that the first half, although we were still second best, I thought we played with a little more purpose - the problem was the capitulation once the first goal went in. Perhaps that's what really irked Bowyer, and perhaps there is some justification in his post match comments because of it. However I just can't ever really remember a time where a manager continously calling out his team has ended well for him.0 - Sponsored links:
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To be fair we forced Nathan Baxter into some decent(ish) saves first half when it was 0-0, Forster-Caskey had a really good effort whilst Gilbey's took a nice deflection into Baxter's pathVfrf said:
I've already pointed out to you why - even with players in their natural positions, tactics, build-up, defensive cover, all of these drills are handled by the manager and his coaches in training all week, ready for this game. The players are absolutely responsible for individual mistakes, but the team had no cohesion, no attacking options, completely out of ideas in the final third, sorry but that's on Bowyer and his team.Garrymanilow said:
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.4 -
Calling everyone in the squad crap and then complaining we aren't able to replace them, doesn't exactly bode well for those players supporting you in the future.
Bowyer is shooting himself in the foot with every single press conference. Why would a player want to play for us if the manager is constantly wishing he could get rid?2 -
While I see what you're getting at here, I think those stats mentioned are a bit misleading.FishCostaFortune said:
As was mentioned in the post match thread. We have a squad with 13 players who've played top-flight football in the UK or abroad and who have 178 full international caps between them, as well as players who have been promoted from this league before or won player of the season at the club they have previously played for.CraicAddick said:Where does this idea come from that we have one of the best teams in the league?- We lack any depth across the entire pitch. Perhaps our only position with two good options is at RB.
- Second, we lack any real quality in Midfield. We don't have a single player who can control and dictate the pace of a game from the centre of the park, deep-lying or as a #10. We don't even have a midfield that can pass the ball forward without either an ambitious long ball or pass out to the full backs.
- Apart from Aneke, we don't have any quality upfront. Simple as.
You can't honestly tell me, apart from a decent 45 minutes here and there, we should be churning out performances like we have week in week out?
For example - I'm not too sure about the 178 Full International Caps (I'm assuming by full you mean senior?), but from the top of my head 153 of those would come from 3 players alone - Gunter 99, Williams 25 & Washington 29).
Unfortunately, the quality within this squad isn't there. Mostly players capable of support roles.
I honestly do think these players are churning out what they can.
If you could re-build this team, how many players would you keep?0 -
I thought gilbey was a lot better today.FishCostaFortune said:
Not sure continuing to play Gilby is currently sensible or logical - though today Bowyer was hamstrung by not having Pratley or Watson.Garrymanilow said:
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.
I have mentioned previously that the first half, although we were still second best, I thought we played with a little more purpose - the problem was the capitulation once the first goal went in. Perhaps that's what really irked Bowyer, and perhaps there is some justification in his post match comments because of it. However I just can't ever really remember a time where a manager continously calling out his team has ended well for him.0 -
Maddison, here’s the quote:addick1956 said:
Which player was that as I missed it making tea ?se9addick said:Saying your players haven’t done well, shouldn’t have shirked a tackle or didn’t track back is one thing. Saying you “don’t care” if one of your players is seriously injured is another thing entirely and way, way across the line. Disgraceful.
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Yeah, I'm not sure as it was taking from another poster. For me personally, if you look at what some of our players have achieved previously - I find it difficult to believe that we only ever really look workmanlike - you often see brief flashes of the quality we have, but it never seems to be a sustained thing. Even in the games we won at the front end of the season, you can never really claim we were dominant in them.CraicAddick said:
While I see what you're getting at here, I think those stats mentioned are a bit misleading.FishCostaFortune said:
As was mentioned in the post match thread. We have a squad with 13 players who've played top-flight football in the UK or abroad and who have 178 full international caps between them, as well as players who have been promoted from this league before or won player of the season at the club they have previously played for.CraicAddick said:Where does this idea come from that we have one of the best teams in the league?- We lack any depth across the entire pitch. Perhaps our only position with two good options is at RB.
- Second, we lack any real quality in Midfield. We don't have a single player who can control and dictate the pace of a game from the centre of the park, deep-lying or as a #10. We don't even have a midfield that can pass the ball forward without either an ambitious long ball or pass out to the full backs.
- Apart from Aneke, we don't have any quality upfront. Simple as.
You can't honestly tell me, apart from a decent 45 minutes here and there, we should be churning out performances like we have week in week out?
For example - I'm not too sure about the 178 Full International Caps (I'm assuming by full you mean senior?), but from the top of my head 153 of those would come from 3 players alone - Gunter 99, Williams 25 & Washington 29).
Unfortunately, the quality within this squad isn't there. Mostly players capable of support roles.
I honestly do think these players are churning out what they can.
If you could re-build this team, how many players would you keep?
For me. That's a coaching thing - I think Bowyer is scarred from what happened in that season in the championship and he seems afraid to make bold decisions and play attacking football. We just seem very rigid, trying to set up defensively, and the opposition are finding it so easy to break inbetween our lines.
Of course our defenders have been making mistakes. But we are inviting them to happen to much.
Of course it's my opinion and I could be completely wrong - but at the moment I'm 100% certain another manager would be getting better performances from this group of players.1 -
As seth plum said earlier someone needs to put their arm round him.
I'd be asking him if his alright , if you need a break have a couple of weeks off.
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Bilko said:I think Bowyer quite enjoyed being the under dog boss with shit owners because he had nothing to lose. Now we have got TS it’s the 1st time he has been under pressure to perform and he doesn’t like it.
We all know this has some truth to it.
We can all probably relate to it in some way as well, even if we don't want to admit it.
He's a roles reverse character and he knows it. He's got the underdog character inside of him and needs it to leave.
He is obviously aware of these internal psychological alterations.
Some managers would have done a runner under the Roland/other load of garbage circus.
Some managers only would have been ok working under saanguard.
Bowyer, the pressure is on. This is football.
You either turn it around or you get the chop.
Which sounds absolutely ridiculous considering the fact that he was very loyal to us.
I just hope he gets more time, learns from mistakes. Learns from this experience and turns it around.1 -
That's just not true though. We lacked cohesion in the midfield and were missing our holding midfielders, but we had 9 shots on target. Their keeper made a number of excellent saves and they cleared a Pearce header off the line. Gilbey had two good shots blocked. We had 6 shots blocked, 8 corners and 12 shots inside the box. We actually looked good going forward today, when we went wide and used the wingers beyond their wingbacks they were worried and that was our clear strategy. Going in at half time if not for Pearce's error we would have been able to say that we'd created the better chances. The stats are there in black and white. In the first half we restricted them to shots from outside the box except for Pearce's blunder. In the second half we kept things much the same but then handed them a free goal when half our team decided to not bother just clearing the ball. Their second goal was their only shot on target in the entire second half. They were organised and calm but to say we had no attacking options is just not based in reality. We only had 10 shots on target against Wimbledon and scored 5 and we were desperately unlucky that one of those chances didn't go in today. It's amazing the things people will ignore just to blame the manager. The set-up was decent, the strategy was right and the players handed a win to the opposition.Vfrf said:
I've already pointed out to you why - even with players in their natural positions, tactics, build-up, defensive cover, all of these drills are handled by the manager and his coaches in training all week, ready for this game. The players are absolutely responsible for individual mistakes, but the team had no cohesion, no attacking options, completely out of ideas in the final third, sorry but that's on Bowyer and his team.Garrymanilow said:
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.
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Whatever happens he has to stop speaking to the press straight after matches (especially if we’ve played badly) - he’s far too emotional.5
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It's easy to look at stats but anybody who watches football knows it goes beyond that. The majority of our shots were from the edge of the box with a 3-strong defence in front of them. The keeper made a couple of average saves, to call them excellent is a huge, huge reach. The only one that was even remotely close to being a good save was JFC in about 70 mins.Garrymanilow said:
That's just not true though. We lacked cohesion in the midfield and were missing our holding midfielders, but we had 9 shots on target. Their keeper made a number of excellent saves and they cleared a Pearce header off the line. Gilbey had two good shots blocked. We had 6 shots blocked, 8 corners and 12 shots inside the box. We actually looked good going forward today, when we went wide and used the wingers beyond their wingbacks they were worried and that was our clear strategy. Going in at half time if not for Pearce's error we would have been able to say that we'd created the better chances. The stats are there in black and white. In the first half we restricted them to shots from outside the box except for Pearce's blunder. In the second half we kept things much the same but then handed them a free goal when half our team decided to not bother just clearing the ball. Their second goal was their only shot on target in the entire second half. They were organised and calm but to say we had no attacking options is just not based in reality. We only had 10 shots on target against Wimbledon and scored 5 and we were desperately unlucky that one of those chances didn't go in today. It's amazing the things people will ignore just to blame the manager. The set-up was decent, the strategy was right and the players handed a win to the opposition.Vfrf said:
I've already pointed out to you why - even with players in their natural positions, tactics, build-up, defensive cover, all of these drills are handled by the manager and his coaches in training all week, ready for this game. The players are absolutely responsible for individual mistakes, but the team had no cohesion, no attacking options, completely out of ideas in the final third, sorry but that's on Bowyer and his team.Garrymanilow said:
Sure, but then I have absolutely no idea why you're talking to me about that, because the basis of my post is that today people got what they wanted; a sensible, logical line up. For a couple of weeks now people have moaned about players in the wrong positions and the wrong shape, and today there wasn't any of that, and we were undone by individual errors. I can understand where frustration towards him has come from in previous games but moaning at Bowyer today just absolves they players of responsibility. We were decent going forward and unlucky not to score, but undone completely by stupid errors. Yet there's a thread about Bowyer losing it when his captain has mucked up a basic back header to hand them a goal. That's what I've been saying.Vfrf said:
I don't remember saying Accrington were bottom teams? I'm talking about MK Dons, Burton, drawing with Plymouth - those are bottom teams.Garrymanilow said:
Which bottom side did we lose to today? Accrington are 5th despite having played 3 games fewer than the league leaders. If they win their games in hand they'll be top of the league.Vfrf said:
Nothing is deliberate there. The fact of the matter the players may well be not good enough, however most of this team have Championship experience, these aren't wet behind the ears teenagers. When you're losing to the bottom teams in the division, and convincingly, tactics and man-management clearly plays a role. Maybe the constant bashing in the media (look at today's comments on MM injury ffs) have played a part too.Garrymanilow said:
Sort of deliberately missing the point there I feel. People have been moaning about players being played out of position in recent weeks but this time it didn't happen. He played a line up that made perfect sense, the players just didn't do the basics. The line up was one that most would have gone with given the available playersVfrf said:
Not to be too sarcastic, but when you're praising a manager for starting players in their rightful positions, you're off on a losing run.Garrymanilow said:I really don't understand how people are giving Bowyer grief for this one when it should be laid at the feet of the players today. Started with a back four made up of our first choice RB and LB and our two back up CBs because our main two are injured. Went 4-3-3 with pace out wide to deal with the fact our issues have been a lack of width and pace. In the midfield we were without our two proper holding midfielders and had to play JFC there, so Gilbey and Morgan were the logical choices to go alongside him as they offer more playing both ways. People were upset that Maddison and Williams didn't start but playing one of them is just asking to be overrun as part of that midfield. Unforunately Albie wasn't at it, Gilbey was just ok and JFC isn't the man to properly shield the defence. Pearce made a massive cock up and so did Maatsen for their two goals. We had 9 shots on target to their 3, but two of those were chances they couldn't miss because the defence handed it to them on a plate. Maddison and Williams both came on and proceeded to be absolute jank and justified not starting in that midfield because we went from not having much cohesion in there to having absolutely nothing. Williams was nowhere near the play and Maddison just drifted about. Chuks came on and failed to impact the game.We got what we wanted; a sensible formation, players in their correct positions, Bogle dropped, positive subs. The amount of changes we've had to make because of injuries and suspensions left that midfield lacking cohesion but other than that what can any manager do when an experienced centre half decides to fuck up a basic header back to his keeper, or your left back dawdles on the ball on the edge of his box? Not everything has to be laid at the manager's feet. We're missing our two best centre backs, our midfield creator and both our experienced holding mids. Tonight was disappointing but if your instinct is to throw a tantrum and want the manager sacked based on what he picked today then I don't think you're ever going to be happy. Seems now we're in League One if we're not beating unfashionable teams then everything is a disgrace. We've become shockingly entitled given what we've been through recently as fans
Aside from individual performance, passes weren't linking up, there seemed to be no cohesion between the team, took off a 'fully fit' player that was our only positive outlet in Millar, seemed buck out of ideas - just for a few.
I just don't think Bowyer has the knowhow to use this group of players. Maybe somebody else will, but we know for sure that Bowyer doesn't.
As I said above, it's not even about the stats/shots or whatever, we don't look like a cohesive unit. If Smyth/Millar/Gilbey didn't go on driving solo runs the ball wouldn't be in their half. The teams I mentioned above all came to our place and played us off the pitch in passing triangles, high press and generally better play. The proof is in the pudding when we've played the dross of league one and got one win from the lot.
If you think we looked good going forward then I have no more to say to you, you're obviously either easily pleased or know nothing of winning football matches.1 -
se9addick said:Saying your players haven’t done well, shouldn’t have shirked a tackle or didn’t track back is one thing. Saying you “don’t care” if one of your players is seriously injured is another thing entirely and way, way across the line. Disgraceful.
We all say things like that when we are emotionally raw. When we are beyond fed up and angry.
It was an extremely careless stupid comment but absolutely no way would he have said that in an interview a day later.
Remember, this bloke does have a short fuse.
It's the same person that swung for his teammate in front of 50,000 people.
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The next logical thing to look at is if the players are not interested/following instructions.
- Do the players believe in the current management and leadership style?
- Has the recruitment targeted the correct players to get our of L1? Or players that are comfy in L1.
- Have we got a motivated squad of players or a mish mash of all sorts?
- Why do rotate the team so often? Is it necessary or out of choice.
- Is the entire Management team too inexperienced? They are great Charlton boys but struggling with Sparrows Lane to Game day transition.
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And if he were to go would that be the end of Jackson and Gallen too?Dave2l said:Bilko said:I think Bowyer quite enjoyed being the under dog boss with shit owners because he had nothing to lose. Now we have got TS it’s the 1st time he has been under pressure to perform and he doesn’t like it.
We all know this has some truth to it.
We can all probably relate to it in some way as well, even if we don't want to admit it.
He's a roles reverse character and he knows it. He's got the underdog character inside of him and needs it to leave.
He is obviously aware of these internal psychological alterations.
Some managers would have done a runner under the Roland/other load of garbage circus.
Some managers only would have been ok working under saanguard.
Bowyer, the pressure is on. This is football.
You either turn it around or you get the chop.
Which sounds absolutely ridiculous considering the fact that he was very loyal to us.
I just hope he gets more time, learns from mistakes. Learns from this experience and turns it around.0 -
Yeah - Definitely the case that while we've seen flashes on quality here and there, we've never dominated a game and looked comfortable.FishCostaFortune said:
Yeah, I'm not sure as it was taking from another poster. For me personally, if you look at what some of our players have achieved previously - I find it difficult to believe that we only ever really look workmanlike - you often see brief flashes of the quality we have, but it never seems to be a sustained thing. Even in the games we won at the front end of the season, you can never really claim we were dominant in them.CraicAddick said:
While I see what you're getting at here, I think those stats mentioned are a bit misleading.FishCostaFortune said:
As was mentioned in the post match thread. We have a squad with 13 players who've played top-flight football in the UK or abroad and who have 178 full international caps between them, as well as players who have been promoted from this league before or won player of the season at the club they have previously played for.CraicAddick said:Where does this idea come from that we have one of the best teams in the league?- We lack any depth across the entire pitch. Perhaps our only position with two good options is at RB.
- Second, we lack any real quality in Midfield. We don't have a single player who can control and dictate the pace of a game from the centre of the park, deep-lying or as a #10. We don't even have a midfield that can pass the ball forward without either an ambitious long ball or pass out to the full backs.
- Apart from Aneke, we don't have any quality upfront. Simple as.
You can't honestly tell me, apart from a decent 45 minutes here and there, we should be churning out performances like we have week in week out?
For example - I'm not too sure about the 178 Full International Caps (I'm assuming by full you mean senior?), but from the top of my head 153 of those would come from 3 players alone - Gunter 99, Williams 25 & Washington 29).
Unfortunately, the quality within this squad isn't there. Mostly players capable of support roles.
I honestly do think these players are churning out what they can.
If you could re-build this team, how many players would you keep?
For me. That's a coaching thing - I think Bowyer is scarred from what happened in that season in the championship and he seems afraid to make bold decisions and play attacking football. We just seem very rigid, trying to set up defensively, and the opposition are finding it so easy to break inbetween our lines.
Of course our defenders have been making mistakes. But we are inviting them to happen to much.
Of course it's my opinion and I could be completely wrong - but at the moment I'm 100% certain another manager would be getting better performances from this group of players.
I agree that Bowyer has gone overly defensive this season and made some horrendous tactical decisions but I do believe part of that is the quality available to him. I think he doesn't rate/trust a lot of the players in the team unfortunately, apart from a few old boys who have experience but tired legs - He appears to be quite brutal and stubborn in that regard.
He also doesn't appear to be improving players anymore unfortunately.. so his gambles that he could reform players, like Maddison for example, appear to be settled at a loss.
I agree that another manager could be getting more wins and points on the board with this group, but I don't believe another manager would get drastically better performances from this limited group in my opinion.
In my opinion, we have an average group of players for this league and are in and around where we should be considering all things. However I 100% agree that, apart from brief moments, the football has been horrendous this season - 3 points or not.
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Like I said above, I think he needs to avoid speaking to the press post match after matches like that. Send Jackson instead, Bowyer is too emotional and ends up saying things that as you quite rightly say he probably regrets later on.Dave2l said:se9addick said:Saying your players haven’t done well, shouldn’t have shirked a tackle or didn’t track back is one thing. Saying you “don’t care” if one of your players is seriously injured is another thing entirely and way, way across the line. Disgraceful.
We all say things like that when we are emotionally raw. When we are beyond fed up and angry.
It was an extremely careless stupid comment but absolutely no way would he have said that in an interview a day later.
Remember, this bloke does have a short fuse.
It's the same person that swung for his teammate in front of 50,000 people.0 -
Who would we get in though ?
karel Freye?
Jose Riga?
Guy Luzon?
Russel Slade?
Bob Peters?
Karl the Bin Dipper?
Who is out there that would come to a third division club and could do a better job with the current wage caps etc?
I say give Bow this transfer window and see where we are at seasons end.
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Hope he stays away from McDonalds on they way home!7
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Thinking back then. Every single goal we let so soon after HT and in stoppage time was down to player's not listening to instructions too. Interesting point being they were a different set of players.0
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Bonne last seasonJ BLOCK said:Why has Bowyer changed so much? He has never directly called players out like this before.
I think everything that happened last summer has taken it out of him.
I'll always love him but it's time now.1
This discussion has been closed.
