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Has Bowyer lost it?
Comments
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It’s not the fact we’ve had a wobble but it’s the manner in which we have.
We barely won from December until the end of last season but the player fought, they battled, we had a system. I was 100% behind him despite relegation.The last few months we’ve looked hopeless in almost every department, void of ideas, void of any tactical awareness and we have senior players saying Bowyer has lost it. I don’t know how he turns this around.11 -
There are two key requirements of a Manager - to coach the side so they play how you want them to do so and to motivate them to do that.
LB cannot legislate for mistakes made by those players. But anyone who thinks that he isn't making some bizarre decisions at the moment is avoiding the truth of the situation. It is the "square pegs in round holes" and then blaming individual players that has at least partially contributed to just 11 points from our last 11 games that includes matches against 8 of the bottom 11 sides.
This simply isn't good enough. I do not believe that he should be sacked right now and there is no doubt that we should improve once the injured and suspended players return. My concern, though, is that LB doesn't actually know what his best team or formation is and that a squad with so many alternatives will mean him continuing to chop and change for the sake of doing so.
The back four will more or less pick itself but what does LB think is the best formation and players to play in midfield and up top from:
Pratley
Watson
Forster-Caskey
Gilbey
Morgan
Williams
Maddison
Vennings
Shinnie
Smyth
Millar
Doughty
Bogle
Washington
Schwartz
Aneke
That's 16 players for 6 positions. Even if a couple of those left us we still have the likes of Matthews, Gunter and Maatsen who have been utilised as wing backs. And if LB reverts to type and plays both Watson and Pratley as holding midfielders that means that he will probably have a choice of a dozen players for just 4 places.
Which side in our division has that many options? Therein, perhaps, lies the problem because we have too many cooks and not enough broth!1 -
Selecting Gilbey
playing Smyth as a wing back
Yes Bowyer’s over thinking it and coming up with crackpot solutions to problems that don’t exist
The contrast when they changed the shape was huge
Here’s hoping that’s lesson learned and no more square pegs in round holes2 -
This is the form table for the last 10 matches. Not pretty viewing
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That wig’s fooling nobody Claus JensenForeverAddickted said:hoof_it_up_to_benty said:
You Muppet...ForeverAddickted said:
SlaaaaaagShootersHillGuru said:
Oh shut up you tartForeverAddickted said:
One thing I like to think I'm very good at is the ability to laugh off insults, I can take the punches and the jabsi_b_b_o_r_g said:
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no oneForeverAddickted said:
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished backhudson-son-son said:
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?esseffect said:Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
All I'll say though is occasionally I will bite back, so when I do, people shouldn't start complaining at the reverse treatment
;0)
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And after those disastrous 11 games, we're sitting joint 4th. Okay, those around us have games in hand, but it still suggests someone was doing something right at some point in the not too distant past, doesnt it?paulie8290 said:
A little wobbleAFKABartram said:We’ve undoubtedly had a little wobble, which has coincided with an impacting hit of injuries. All teams have a wobble and if you call for the manager to be changed each time you really won’t get anywhere.
As Lord Curbs said, you want to have your wobble now rather than in the last third of the season.Creating outside pressure on management (and owner) really is not going to help us, that I’m convinced.
We have won 2 of our last 11
Thats a quarter of a season pretty much, and we have only won 2 games, that to me is more than a little wobble3 -
Fair enough and I would take the stick due, just like I said I would eat humble pie if Southall turned out to be a gooden after I pointed out he was lying in his first interview. Still waiting for some apologies. Maybe we should have a retrospective table for that?esseffect said:Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
Consistency in selection, motivated players with a smile on their face and something resembling coherent tactics is all I ask for tbh. I don't mind losing, but the dross, nonsense selections, formations and lack of commitment has been an issue for a year now. Even considering the injuries.
Which single player played consistently well in 2020?
That's not a blip.
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But get upset when someone moves arm chairs during a game?ForeverAddickted said:
One thing I like to think I'm very good at is the ability to laugh off insults, I can take the punches and the jabsi_b_b_o_r_g said:
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no oneForeverAddickted said:
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished backhudson-son-son said:
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?esseffect said:Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
All I'll say though is occasionally I will bite back, so when I do, people shouldn't start complaining at the reverse treatment0 -
Where can I find these tables please?killerandflash said:This is the form table for the last 10 matches. Not pretty viewing0 -
This is complete tosh ... and I'll call out Curbs too. A superb example of incorrect football cliches.AFKABartram said:We’ve undoubtedly had a little wobble, which has coincided with an impacting hit of injuries. All teams have a wobble and if you call for the manager to be changed each time you really won’t get anywhere.
As Lord Curbs said, you want to have your wobble now rather than in the last third of the season.Creating outside pressure on management (and owner) really is not going to help us, that I’m convinced.
All 'wobbles' (ie loss of points) are equal. It doesn't matter when they happen ... the points lost are the same. All wins earn three points, all losses earn zero. It doesn't matter if they happen in September or March.
Second ... there is an implicit assumption that there will only be one 'wobble'. How about if teams have a wobble now, and another at the end of the season?
Total tosh. Do you own thinking, and don't rely on hackneyed cliches.5 - Sponsored links:
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The disturbing aspect is that we've played all of the bottom 5 form teams in the last 10 games!killerandflash said:This is the form table for the last 10 matches. Not pretty viewing7 -
There are few sites out there, but I used this onedmjn said:
Where can I find these tables please?killerandflash said:This is the form table for the last 10 matches. Not pretty viewing
https://www.soccerstats.com/formtable.asp?league=england3
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Plenty of people on here and Twitter saying they're our biggest earners. Gunter rumoured to be on £6k. Not gospel obviously, but it wouldn't be surprising, and these things do tend to get outScoham said:
Not saying that's not true but how do you know what Watson and Gunter are on?Croydon said:Really winds me up when Bowyer bangs on about how hard the cap is. He's the one who signed Watson and Gunter on inflated wages, could have 5 players for their wages0 -
Bit like how you got stroppy and called me a twat simply because I said we had no right to beat AccringtonCafc43v3r said:
But get upset when someone moves arm chairs during a game?ForeverAddickted said:
One thing I like to think I'm very good at is the ability to laugh off insults, I can take the punches and the jabsi_b_b_o_r_g said:
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no oneForeverAddickted said:
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished backhudson-son-son said:
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?esseffect said:Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
All I'll say though is occasionally I will bite back, so when I do, people shouldn't start complaining at the reverse treatment
Guess we're even on that one eh? - Dont play the pathetic innocent act0 -
Oh for goodness sake lads, it was tedious enough on the match thread, don't rehash it all over again on this one.ForeverAddickted said:
Bit like how you got stroppy and called me a twat simply because I said we had no right to beat AccringtonCafc43v3r said:
But get upset when someone moves arm chairs during a game?ForeverAddickted said:
One thing I like to think I'm very good at is the ability to laugh off insults, I can take the punches and the jabsi_b_b_o_r_g said:
I was apparently a Nimer Apologist and now it turns out I'm a Bowyer Apologist, but I ain't changing for no oneForeverAddickted said:
I dunno.. I've been labelled a Bowyer Apologist a good few times now so its maybe only fair that the label gets dished backhudson-son-son said:
So if we don't and continue to defend like dogshit and he gets sacked, we should name and shame those who wanted to keep him in?esseffect said:Like the in the know thread if Bows stays on and we get promoted I’d move to name and shame they Bowyer out brigade
I don't think anyone who is suggesting Bowyer out particularly wants to be in that situation, or one of the ridiculous claims that we want to be doing badly to get rid of him. He's a hero for the last few years, but we're on a bad run, and he's reacted to that himself pretty poorly and all the whispers suggest he's losing the dressing room for it. Unfortunately with a change in ownership, management changes are always pretty inevitable at some point to get their own men in, and this seems to be going that way.
If the comeback tonight ignites a change in his philosophy to go a bit more attacking and on the front foot etc, everyone would be delighted. I'm not going to get too excited about a draw with Rochdale at home in isolation though, but we will see.
All I'll say though is occasionally I will bite back, so when I do, people shouldn't start complaining at the reverse treatment
Guess we're even on that one eh? - Dont play the pathetic innocent act
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Did notice that Bowyer was speaking more calmly after the game and did not call out anyone. I am sure someone had a word2
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Above where you typeddmjn said:
Where can I find these tables please?killerandflash said:This is the form table for the last 10 matches. Not pretty viewing3 -
Blimey I was going to quote this a couple of days ago.ForeverAddickted said:
At this moment in time I'd go full out Curbs with Tuesday night...hoof_it_up_to_benty said:Bizarre team selections and a string of poor performances hardly fill anyone with confidence. LB doesn't inspire confidence with his interviews - he comes across as someone is struggling.
If TS leaves him in charge if he doesn't make the playoffs then he will struggle to get any backing. Whatever the limitations of our squad it should be up to making the top 6.
Interesting to see who he fields against Rochdale. We need to keep a clean sheet.
Put out a proper defensive team, even if we draw 0-0, feel a clean sheet would be just as much of a confidence boost for the players as a win would be
You got the draw right FA0 -
How long was Robinson's wobble and how bad was it again?
Genuine question...
People wanted Robbinson sacked purely for sticking to 4231, imagine if Gobbo had started Fosu at RB
Not that I want Bowyer gone (I just want a sensible approach!), but managers have been sacked for less than what he's currently giving.1 -
Last night was him really so not sure he could call anyone out. If we don't put Smyth at RWB then i'm convinced we win the game.ct_addick said:Did notice that Bowyer was speaking more calmly after the game and did not call out anyone. I am sure someone had a word
Madness to play him there really considering we had Matthews on the bench. And then i think he took too long to change it when it was obvious it wasn't working.5 - Sponsored links:
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His tactical mistakes (such as Swindon) have not stopped Bowyer blaming someone else in recent times.Chris_from_Sidcup said:
Last night was him really so not sure he could call anyone out. If we don't put Smyth at RWB then i'm convinced we win the game.ct_addick said:Did notice that Bowyer was speaking more calmly after the game and did not call out anyone. I am sure someone had a word
Madness to play him there really considering we had Matthews on the bench. And then i think he took too long to change it when it was obvious it wasn't working.
His post match conference yesterday was much like the Bowyer of old, who has often shocked me with his cool, calm and focused thought.
I'm dubious, but hopefully this is our turning point in the season and we can go on to play more positively like we did that second half.
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It’s probably one of those things where 1 or 2 share what they’ve heard and then many repeat it so it looks like it’s common knowledge.Croydon said:
Plenty of people on here and Twitter saying they're our biggest earners. Gunter rumoured to be on £6k. Not gospel obviously, but it wouldn't be surprising, and these things do tend to get outScoham said:
Not saying that's not true but how do you know what Watson and Gunter are on?Croydon said:Really winds me up when Bowyer bangs on about how hard the cap is. He's the one who signed Watson and Gunter on inflated wages, could have 5 players for their wages
No doubt they’d be amongst our top earners but hard to believe that along with Matthews we’d spend as much as £7-8k or so on two right backs.Even if true we don’t know exactly how their deals are structured - promotion (and cup...) bonuses aren’t included in the cap for example.3 -
We should heavily weight player remuneration based on our cup performances!Scoham said:
It’s probably one of those things where 1 or 2 share what they’ve heard and then many repeat it so it looks like it’s common knowledge.Croydon said:
Plenty of people on here and Twitter saying they're our biggest earners. Gunter rumoured to be on £6k. Not gospel obviously, but it wouldn't be surprising, and these things do tend to get outScoham said:
Not saying that's not true but how do you know what Watson and Gunter are on?Croydon said:Really winds me up when Bowyer bangs on about how hard the cap is. He's the one who signed Watson and Gunter on inflated wages, could have 5 players for their wages
No doubt they’d be amongst our top earners but hard to believe that along with Matthews we’d spend as much as £7-8k or so on two right backs.Even if true we don’t know exactly how their deals are structured - promotion (and cup...) bonuses aren’t included in the cap for example.5 -
We are bang on the salary cap.Scoham said:
It’s probably one of those things where 1 or 2 share what they’ve heard and then many repeat it so it looks like it’s common knowledge.Croydon said:
Plenty of people on here and Twitter saying they're our biggest earners. Gunter rumoured to be on £6k. Not gospel obviously, but it wouldn't be surprising, and these things do tend to get outScoham said:
Not saying that's not true but how do you know what Watson and Gunter are on?Croydon said:Really winds me up when Bowyer bangs on about how hard the cap is. He's the one who signed Watson and Gunter on inflated wages, could have 5 players for their wages
No doubt they’d be amongst our top earners but hard to believe that along with Matthews we’d spend as much as £7-8k or so on two right backs.Even if true we don’t know exactly how their deals are structured - promotion (and cup...) bonuses aren’t included in the cap for example.
We hardly paying anything towards the loans that count. Innis is on a relatively small wage because Palace paid him out allowing him to take a smaller wage with us. So if they are all on "below the average" and the legecy players (including Washington and Gilbey) are on the average for this purpose.
The rest is absorbed by Gunter, Watson, Matthews, Maddison, Schwartz and Bogle. I would guess that 3 of them are on significantly more than the other 3. So it's not unreasonable to suggest that Watson and Gunter are on the 5-6k range.1 -
On reflection (it’s always better to post the morning after) should he be given say, 5 games once we have a defence again? Understand that could be too late, but there’s the question.0
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I think Thomas will give him the whole season and then review it.BR7_addick said:On reflection (it’s always better to post the morning after) should he be given say, 5 games once we have a defence again? Understand that could be too late, but there’s the question.
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All the Man U fans that wanted Olly sacked two months ago (the vast majority) have gone very quiet in the last few weeks. Turns out he might not be completely out of his depth and he might actually have a clue after all...19
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Been saying this for a while. I think Bowyer needs a bit of support and someone to work with the defence would be a start.ShootersHillGuru said:Get in a defensive coach at the very least. We are a shambles.2 -
Too late for what? Promotion? A top six finish? As for five games after our first choice defence is available at least February after the transfer window has shut? What’s the point of changing the manager then unless the players aren’t playing for him. That second half last night didn’t look to me as if he’d lost the dressing room.BR7_addick said:On reflection (it’s always better to post the morning after) should he be given say, 5 games once we have a defence again? Understand that could be too late, but there’s the question.
The only person who can answer that is TS and whilst he wants to get out of this division nobody knows what he has said to LB about the present situation or the way forward. At least he hasn’t had the dreaded ‘vote of confidence’ from the owner yet. My personal view is that LB will be given until the end of the season at least when TS will conduct a performance review and consider the way forward with or without LB.9
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