This won’t be popular with the Surrey folk on here but Pope seemed to get out in stupid ways this series. I would consider Lawrence over him at 6 at this stage.
Foakes didn’t do enough with the bat to deserve to keep buttler out.
Pope is having to play a role that is foreign to him and he doesn't know whether to stick or twist. It is his shot selection that is invariably getting him out. I did predict that he had as much chance of not being successful at 6 as he would at batting at 3 and that if he did struggle down the orrder he would be under pressure for his place. He is technically sound and has the highest First Class average of any English qualified player (50.40 including 9 hundreds and 12 fifties from 72 innings) but has batted like a rabbit in headlights on this tour. For that reason I would give him that spot at 3 and just tell him to go out and bat - and by that I mean bat as the batsman you are and not the batsman you think you should be.
Lawrence showed enough application to demonstrate he can be a Test player which is why I suggest he should be given an opportunity at 5 - he's batting four times at 3 and didn't look comfortable there scoring just 53 in total. Down the order he averaged 39.
Stokes - the one thing he proved here was that he can still bowl. Unfortunately, his batting has gone backwards for completely the opposite reasons to Pope. He knows how to finish and destroy an opposition, but as time has gone on and with his earlier exposure, not by just batting at 5 but by the fact that we are 3 down sooner rather than later, he is not batting with any freedom. So I would drop him down one.
Foakes is the best keeper in England. But here's the dilemma - he has been considered as a good player of spin but vulnerable to top pace. This tour has done everything to reaffirm his keeping but nothing to reinforce his batting - 78 runs at an average of 15.6 is well, very average. This was his chance to grab with the position with both hands but he didn't and the person to benefit most will be Buttler. The latter's keeping has improved, especially standing back and let's face it he isn't going to have to take too many stumpings/catches with our wealth of spinners and given the probably nature of the tracks both here and in Australia. Buttler also has one thing that Foakes doesn't - he is someone who can take a game away from the opposition in a matter of an hour or so.
So for NZ:
1. Burns/Sibley 2. Crawley 3. Pope 4. Root 5. Lawrence 6. Stokes 7. Buttler 8. Woakes/Curran (S) 9. Archer/Wood/Stones 10. Leach/Virdi 11. Anderson/Broad
Agree largely with you here, though at home I'd be tempted by Anderson & Broad rather than one or the other.
The reason I went that way is because Woakes or Curran plus Anderson and Broad are too similar and I wanted someone with that bit of extra pace especially with the Ashes in mind. If we replace Woakes or Curran with Wood/Stone/Archer then the tail starts at 8 - the prospect of four bunnies in the shape of Archer, Broad, Anderson and Virdi means that, at 6 down, there would be next to no support for the likes of Stokes or Buttler.
This won’t be popular with the Surrey folk on here but Pope seemed to get out in stupid ways this series. I would consider Lawrence over him at 6 at this stage.
Foakes didn’t do enough with the bat to deserve to keep buttler out.
Pope is having to play a role that is foreign to him and he doesn't know whether to stick or twist. It is his shot selection that is invariably getting him out. I did predict that he had as much chance of not being successful at 6 as he would at batting at 3 and that if he did struggle down the orrder he would be under pressure for his place. He is technically sound and has the highest First Class average of any English qualified player (50.40 including 9 hundreds and 12 fifties from 72 innings) but has batted like a rabbit in headlights on this tour. For that reason I would give him that spot at 3 and just tell him to go out and bat - and by that I mean bat as the batsman you are and not the batsman you think you should be.
Lawrence showed enough application to demonstrate he can be a Test player which is why I suggest he should be given an opportunity at 5 - he's batting four times at 3 and didn't look comfortable there scoring just 53 in total. Down the order he averaged 39.
Stokes - the one thing he proved here was that he can still bowl. Unfortunately, his batting has gone backwards for completely the opposite reasons to Pope. He knows how to finish and destroy an opposition, but as time has gone on and with his earlier exposure, not by just batting at 5 but by the fact that we are 3 down sooner rather than later, he is not batting with any freedom. So I would drop him down one.
Foakes is the best keeper in England. But here's the dilemma - he has been considered as a good player of spin but vulnerable to top pace. This tour has done everything to reaffirm his keeping but nothing to reinforce his batting - 78 runs at an average of 15.6 is well, very average. This was his chance to grab with the position with both hands but he didn't and the person to benefit most will be Buttler. The latter's keeping has improved, especially standing back and let's face it he isn't going to have to take too many stumpings/catches with our wealth of spinners and given the probably nature of the tracks both here and in Australia. Buttler also has one thing that Foakes doesn't - he is someone who can take a game away from the opposition in a matter of an hour or so.
So for NZ:
1. Burns/Sibley 2. Crawley 3. Pope 4. Root 5. Lawrence 6. Stokes 7. Buttler 8. Woakes/Curran (S) 9. Archer/Wood/Stones 10. Leach/Virdi 11. Anderson/Broad
Ok you can have your way re Pope...thought Crawleys reputation improved when he was out of the side ..I don't think there's much to choose from between the 3 openers although I think Crawley has more potential so for me burns and Crawley to open..if Pope is going to bat 3 that is where Surrey should play him from start of season
Agree with everything else provided virdi plays consistently for Surrey...also think stones deserves another go soonest
Time for me to have my say on the number 3 debate.
I would recommend the article below from Wisden. It ends: It’s tough to say now who should be England’s long-term, or even short-term No.3. But if they continue to pick players for the role because they avert a difficult decision elsewhere rather than for their suitability for the role, the cycle that got them into this mess in the first place will surely continue.
My view is that we spent so long looking for a number 3 that when we finally find one in Crawley we want to go and push him to open - a position where is record is significantly poorer (in test and first class cricket) and he has said he is less comfortable. For me we should be building the side around him at 3. Burns is in poor form and I said he should be dropped in india, it was completely the right call. But should a poor series away from home, in particularly tough conditions against the best side in the world when no batsman did remotely well, impact the make up of the side in English conditions? Well yes but I'd put less weight on it than usual. At the end of the English summer we were all happy we had a settled top 3. As long as Burns is in reasonable form in the early county champ matches then first test I would have him in the side.
This summer should be spend thinking about the ashes. Foakes isn't one I think will do well down under and having not grabbed his chance this winter (he looked more comfortable against the spinners than most IMO but was left with the tail every time) I am backing Buttler (despite this I will make the point that Buttler is allowed the "excuse" that he is always left batting with the tail and he averages 20 more at 6 than 7, whilst Foakes has batted more than half his England innings at * and until that last test had a higher average).That leaves a direct shootout for the number 6 slot between Pope and Lawrence. Both are prospects and I am happy with either. I think the England setup are of the view that Pope has a higher ceiling and so they will stick with him. I'm sure Lawrence will get a game at some point in the summer due to form or injury, he is firmly first reserve now. Again with the ashes in mind I would want to see one of the quicks (Archer, Wood, Stone) involved every match as we are going to need all of them in Aus. Leach is one of the few players to come out of the winter with any credit so he plays. Rotate Broad and Anderson.
Virdi is a very interesting one still very young and has a lot to learn but huge potential.
Burst on to the scene in 2018 - played the first championship match I think Gareth Batty (highest wicket taker the previous season) was injured. Virdi was exceptional and Batty never got back into the side. He was part of a brilliant bowling unit. Morkel on absolute fire, Rikki Clarke having the best season of his life, Sam Curran available all season and Jade Dernbach (also having the nest season of his life) doing that holding role exceptionally. It was very easy to bowl in that unit even the likes of Ryan Patel looked a brilliant all rounder despite looking pretty poor with the ball ever since. Not taking anything away from Virdi but worth noting he was very good in a very good side.
At the start of the 2019 season I think he had been injured over the winter but then wasn't selected for quite a few matches and Alec Stewart outed him at a members forum stating his attitude and fitness was poor. There was a moment that must have been pretty humiliating for him during lunch of a county championship match where Surrey were getting destroyed (as we had for most games that season), he was sent out onto the outfield and made to run laps with the fitness coach shouting "RUN RUN RUN" at him for the whole interval.
When he did come back in he took 14 wickets in his first match and did alright for the rest of the season. He had as good a year as any in 2020. Hopefully his fitness and attitude issues are behind him and I'm sure he will have learned a huge amount from being around the England setup this winter.
As said he certainly gives the ball a rip and has that knack of taking wickets. I believe he got Root, Bairstow and Pujara out when we played Yorkshire a few years back at Scarborough. Spinner do mature later so I wouldn't want to throw him in unless I was completely sure he was ready both in terms of his game and mentally.
Interestingly he hasn't played a single T20 or even one day cup game. He's very much a long format player, and I hope it stays that way and he can develop his game for that formt only.
He doesn't offer much at all in the field, probably worse than Monty. His batting is pretty funny too, very much a close the eyes and swing with all your might approach. He does have a top score of 21 which included 2 6's! When you bat below Jade Dernbach you know you're dreadful!
I've seen him on social media throughout the pandemic working with a charity providing meals for the homeless and for the NHS and seems to have his head screwed on.
Yeah there was footage of a Sikh van delivering provisions for the homeless and Virdi was one of the people doing it, wasn't even remarked upon at the time I think! Not that being a good bloke means you should play for England, but being a good bloke who can land it and turn it puts you in the elite company of Jack Leach and pretty much nobody else
Virdi loses little to Ashwin by way of comparison. THAT SAID, Ashwin's BATTING is, weirdly, what stands out - in a game where nobody could play spin properly (although, Surrey's Jamie Smith looks a prospect), he scored quite a lot of runs for one freak strangle dismissal
Virdi loses little to Ashwin by way of comparison. THAT SAID, Ashwin's BATTING is, weirdly, what stands out - in a game where nobody could play spin properly (although, Surrey's Jamie Smith looks a prospect), he scored quite a lot of runs for one freak strangle dismissal
Smith certainly is a prospect. There was a point where he was looking at moving on as Foakes and Pope were our keepers. With Pope's injuries and call ups and Foakes spending all of last summer in the England bubble but not, playing Smith has had the opportunity with gloves and bat. He has leapfrogged Ryan Patel and Will Jacks (long format only).
There's a lot to enjoy in that video but my favourite is the batsman, who has just half limped a 3rd run as his pad is flapping everywhere, turning around, seeing the fielder with the ball 6ft from the stumps and thinking "Yeah, I'll run for a 4th."
There's a lot to enjoy in that video but my favourite is the batsman, who has just half limped a 3rd run as his pad is flapping everywhere, turning around, seeing the fielder with the ball 6ft from the stumps and thinking "Yeah, I'll run for a 4th."
It's a Renaissance painting. There's just so much in it.
The fact the batsman are wearing different coloured pads
Number 4 (Kapil Dev lookalike) twice fails to effect a simple runout, but then stands, double teapot, staring at the bowler. Twice.
The heatmap of the umpire.
The square leg fielder who wanders in and then stands, like Christ the Redeemer with his arms outstretched as if in incredulity at the incompetence of his team-mates. And then fails to stop the ball as it rolls up the pitch towards him.
The batsman who, having hit the ball, played out the two tropes that every cricketer has drummed into them from an early age: 'always run on a misfield' and 'jog the first three runs in case you need to run a fourth'.
And the fact that no-one apologised to the bowler who single-handedly seems to be keeping his side in the game (they're going at ten an over; he'd bowled eight balls for five runs).
But for me, the best bit is the commentary, which ends with a big sigh and '...I can't believe this'.
Great bowling performance. This is more or less our best team but we will need that second spinning option so Moeen needs to come in for Curran even more so if Rashid is going to bowl two overs in the Power Play - pace of Archer and Wood plus Jordan the finisher with Stokes as back up.
This is probably a strongest batting line up too. Just a bit concerned about the form of Roy but also how capable he is when the opposition opens with a quality spinner.
Comments
The reason I went that way is because Woakes or Curran plus Anderson and Broad are too similar and I wanted someone with that bit of extra pace especially with the Ashes in mind. If we replace Woakes or Curran with Wood/Stone/Archer then the tail starts at 8 - the prospect of four bunnies in the shape of Archer, Broad, Anderson and Virdi means that, at 6 down, there would be next to no support for the likes of Stokes or Buttler.
Agree with everything else provided virdi plays consistently for Surrey...also think stones deserves another go soonest
I would recommend the article below from Wisden. It ends: It’s tough to say now who should be England’s long-term, or even short-term No.3. But if they continue to pick players for the role because they avert a difficult decision elsewhere rather than for their suitability for the role, the cycle that got them into this mess in the first place will surely continue.
https://wisden.com/series-stories/india-v-england/unfortunately-there-are-no-simple-solutions-to-englands-no-3-problem?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1615137621
My view is that we spent so long looking for a number 3 that when we finally find one in Crawley we want to go and push him to open - a position where is record is significantly poorer (in test and first class cricket) and he has said he is less comfortable. For me we should be building the side around him at 3. Burns is in poor form and I said he should be dropped in india, it was completely the right call. But should a poor series away from home, in particularly tough conditions against the best side in the world when no batsman did remotely well, impact the make up of the side in English conditions? Well yes but I'd put less weight on it than usual. At the end of the English summer we were all happy we had a settled top 3. As long as Burns is in reasonable form in the early county champ matches then first test I would have him in the side.
This summer should be spend thinking about the ashes. Foakes isn't one I think will do well down under and having not grabbed his chance this winter (he looked more comfortable against the spinners than most IMO but was left with the tail every time) I am backing Buttler (despite this I will make the point that Buttler is allowed the "excuse" that he is always left batting with the tail and he averages 20 more at 6 than 7, whilst Foakes has batted more than half his England innings at * and until that last test had a higher average).That leaves a direct shootout for the number 6 slot between Pope and Lawrence. Both are prospects and I am happy with either. I think the England setup are of the view that Pope has a higher ceiling and so they will stick with him. I'm sure Lawrence will get a game at some point in the summer due to form or injury, he is firmly first reserve now. Again with the ashes in mind I would want to see one of the quicks (Archer, Wood, Stone) involved every match as we are going to need all of them in Aus. Leach is one of the few players to come out of the winter with any credit so he plays. Rotate Broad and Anderson.
Burns
Sibley
Crawley
Root
Stokes
Pope/Lawrence
Buttler
Woakes/Curran
Archer/Wood/Stone
Leach
Broad/Anderson
Burst on to the scene in 2018 - played the first championship match I think Gareth Batty (highest wicket taker the previous season) was injured. Virdi was exceptional and Batty never got back into the side. He was part of a brilliant bowling unit. Morkel on absolute fire, Rikki Clarke having the best season of his life, Sam Curran available all season and Jade Dernbach (also having the nest season of his life) doing that holding role exceptionally. It was very easy to bowl in that unit even the likes of Ryan Patel looked a brilliant all rounder despite looking pretty poor with the ball ever since. Not taking anything away from Virdi but worth noting he was very good in a very good side.
At the start of the 2019 season I think he had been injured over the winter but then wasn't selected for quite a few matches and Alec Stewart outed him at a members forum stating his attitude and fitness was poor. There was a moment that must have been pretty humiliating for him during lunch of a county championship match where Surrey were getting destroyed (as we had for most games that season), he was sent out onto the outfield and made to run laps with the fitness coach shouting "RUN RUN RUN" at him for the whole interval.
When he did come back in he took 14 wickets in his first match and did alright for the rest of the season. He had as good a year as any in 2020. Hopefully his fitness and attitude issues are behind him and I'm sure he will have learned a huge amount from being around the England setup this winter.
As said he certainly gives the ball a rip and has that knack of taking wickets. I believe he got Root, Bairstow and Pujara out when we played Yorkshire a few years back at Scarborough. Spinner do mature later so I wouldn't want to throw him in unless I was completely sure he was ready both in terms of his game and mentally.
Interestingly he hasn't played a single T20 or even one day cup game. He's very much a long format player, and I hope it stays that way and he can develop his game for that formt only.
He doesn't offer much at all in the field, probably worse than Monty. His batting is pretty funny too, very much a close the eyes and swing with all your might approach. He does have a top score of 21 which included 2 6's! When you bat below Jade Dernbach you know you're dreadful!
I've seen him on social media throughout the pandemic working with a charity providing meals for the homeless and for the NHS and seems to have his head screwed on.
Virdi loses little to Ashwin by way of comparison. THAT SAID, Ashwin's BATTING is, weirdly, what stands out - in a game where nobody could play spin properly (although, Surrey's Jamie Smith looks a prospect), he scored quite a lot of runs for one freak strangle dismissal
Players: What? Why?
Coach: Well let's take a look at the video analysis...
- The fact the batsman are wearing different coloured pads
- Number 4 (Kapil Dev lookalike) twice fails to effect a simple runout, but then stands, double teapot, staring at the bowler. Twice.
- The heatmap of the umpire.
- The square leg fielder who wanders in and then stands, like Christ the Redeemer with his arms outstretched as if in incredulity at the incompetence of his team-mates. And then fails to stop the ball as it rolls up the pitch towards him.
- The batsman who, having hit the ball, played out the two tropes that every cricketer has drummed into them from an early age: 'always run on a misfield' and 'jog the first three runs in case you need to run a fourth'.
- And the fact that no-one apologised to the bowler who single-handedly seems to be keeping his side in the game (they're going at ten an over; he'd bowled eight balls for five runs).
But for me, the best bit is the commentary, which ends with a big sigh and '...I can't believe this'.If anything, I think it would've been better for the test series to be on sky & the T20s & ODIs to be on terrestrial television
Archer 4 overs, 3 for 23
Good stuff from England...
This is probably a strongest batting line up too. Just a bit concerned about the form of Roy but also how capable he is when the opposition opens with a quality spinner.
Buttler gone for 28 from 24. Roy still there on 44 from 24.