Peanuts and a couple of others have posted what are routinely dismissed as ‘anti-vax’ comments on here, the content of which has resulted in the mod who started the thread to consider closing it as well as others who have suggested the same.
Peanuts, in particular, has been subjected to the usual crass and thoughtless accusations of Conspiracy Theorist; disappeared down a rabbit hole; did a horse kick you in the head nonsense simply because he an alternative view to the indignant majority.
The lazy and desperate discrediting of any post that offends the majority as ‘Fake News’ is rife.
In the past on the now defunct Covid thread, I would post data from the Government’s ONS site, but as the stats could sometimes prove to be unsettling for some, they would be lolled. Facts. From the Government’s ONS site… Professors of medicine, infinitely more qualified than anyone on here, were maligned by the mob because they failed to comply with the vaccine orthodoxy. And still are as evidenced on this thread. Fake news: Safe and effective.
There is nothing new in this collective hounding of an alternative stance, but that people are talking of censorship - which the closing down of the thread would effectively be - then that is a different matter.
What I fail to understand is why anyone who is so confident in their own position and finds that of the ‘opposition’ so preposterous that it can be summarily dismissed as being the thoughts of a deluded, Flat Earther, ‘anti vaxxer’ etc should feel sufficiently threatened to demand their views are censored. And spare me the simpering, pearl-clutching view that a post on a football forum that is sceptical/critical of anything vaccine related is in any way remotely dangerous. It is not, and only a person of no mettle and prone to bouts of public histrionics would find it so.
If any danger exists, it is in the talk of censorship.
Peanuts has been maligned because he posts individual links and videos every few days claiming that they show the vaccine is bad. Every single one of those has been debunked, with the 'experts' being outed as either completely out of their mind and unqualified or obviously financially motivated to downplay the effective vaccine in favour of their own brand. Peanuts never, ever responds to the debunking, just ignores it and rolls on posting the same type of stuff and never acknowledging the responses. He has responded exactly once on this thread with a link to a journal. That journal was then completely eviscerated by another poster and surprise surprise Peanuts went quiet again. That's why people get laughed at, because it's been nearly four years and loons are still posting easily debunked garbage and claiming it's a fact. I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum. It's because there aren't any facts in favour of your argument, and as you evidenced in your next post . That's why you lot get lols and we're genuinely concerned a horse has been on a head-kicking rampage. It's not censorship, it's the realisation that we are going to have to hear these daft theories forever because apparently a characteristic of being the type of person to fall for them is the inability to acknowledge any response and learn something new.
I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum
Let’s deal with this puerile, ad hominem doggerel : firstly, this isn’t what I wrote and bears no relation to anything I wrote in the post, so don’t put it in quotation marks.
You’ve obviously failed to grasp the very simple point made with regard to people lolling posts I made that contained data/stats from the Government ONS site, so here it is made simple: vaxxer reads data on ONS site that confirms his bias - all good Vaxxer reads data on ONS site posted by someone who chose not to be vaccinated that confounds his bias. He experiences mild cognitive dissonance, doesn’t like the feeling so hits the lol button and is later comforted by the fact that others have done the same.
As for still not understanding the purpose of the vaccine, I understand it only too well. Its purpose wasn’t to prevent transmission or contagion, just, like, if you got it the symptoms wouldn’t be as bad and you won’t die, probably, it’s saved millions of lives, etc
SAVE your granny/lives/ the NHS; ring any bells? the inference is writ large…
That oft quoted ‘saved millions of lives’ may or may not be true, but as it is a wholly unsubstantiated claim with no empirical data to support it and is dependent on nothing more than modeling…
As for censorship on here, I realise it no longer matters; the Covid thread was effectively censored, but so what? I am as entrenched in my position as the vaxxers are in theirs and it’s become as tiresome as it is futile, so I will censor myself. Good luck, all
Strange that some people are willing to think that a vaccine is the cause of their ill health, but refuse to consider that it might be the virus itself that has caused their health to deteriorate.
SARS-Cov-2 is a new virus and less than 4 years in circulation, it's far too soon to be able to rule out that it won't cause illness in future, in those who have had a Covid infection.
This week's revelations from the Covid Inquiry are breath taking and it should really result in charges against those who caused far too many unnecessary deaths by their dreadful decisions and indecision.
Also strange that people think the main reason for their ill health is Covid rather than their poor health levels in the first place.
Also strange that our government and others worldwide would rather lecture people on the benefits of a almost totally untested vaccine than on the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and that just simply taking vitamin D may well help.
Strange that some people are willing to think that a vaccine is the cause of their ill health, but refuse to consider that it might be the virus itself that has caused their health to deteriorate.
SARS-Cov-2 is a new virus and less than 4 years in circulation, it's far too soon to be able to rule out that it won't cause illness in future, in those who have had a Covid infection.
This week's revelations from the Covid Inquiry are breath taking and it should really result in charges against those who caused far too many unnecessary deaths by their dreadful decisions and indecision.
Also strange that people think the main reason for their ill health is Covid rather than their poor health levels in the first place.
Also strange that our government and others worldwide would rather lecture people on the benefits of a almost totally untested vaccine than on the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and that just simply taking vitamin D may well help.
There was a claim above that it showed cardiovascular side effects during phase 2/3 of clinical trials. That got taken to pieces. Now you're clamming it was almost totally (??) untested.
Plenty of examples of fit and healthy people dying of covid.
Peanuts and a couple of others have posted what are routinely dismissed as ‘anti-vax’ comments on here, the content of which has resulted in the mod who started the thread to consider closing it as well as others who have suggested the same.
Peanuts, in particular, has been subjected to the usual crass and thoughtless accusations of Conspiracy Theorist; disappeared down a rabbit hole; did a horse kick you in the head nonsense simply because he an alternative view to the indignant majority.
The lazy and desperate discrediting of any post that offends the majority as ‘Fake News’ is rife.
In the past on the now defunct Covid thread, I would post data from the Government’s ONS site, but as the stats could sometimes prove to be unsettling for some, they would be lolled. Facts. From the Government’s ONS site… Professors of medicine, infinitely more qualified than anyone on here, were maligned by the mob because they failed to comply with the vaccine orthodoxy. And still are as evidenced on this thread. Fake news: Safe and effective.
There is nothing new in this collective hounding of an alternative stance, but that people are talking of censorship - which the closing down of the thread would effectively be - then that is a different matter.
What I fail to understand is why anyone who is so confident in their own position and finds that of the ‘opposition’ so preposterous that it can be summarily dismissed as being the thoughts of a deluded, Flat Earther, ‘anti vaxxer’ etc should feel sufficiently threatened to demand their views are censored. And spare me the simpering, pearl-clutching view that a post on a football forum that is sceptical/critical of anything vaccine related is in any way remotely dangerous. It is not, and only a person of no mettle and prone to bouts of public histrionics would find it so.
If any danger exists, it is in the talk of censorship.
Peanuts has been maligned because he posts individual links and videos every few days claiming that they show the vaccine is bad. Every single one of those has been debunked, with the 'experts' being outed as either completely out of their mind and unqualified or obviously financially motivated to downplay the effective vaccine in favour of their own brand. Peanuts never, ever responds to the debunking, just ignores it and rolls on posting the same type of stuff and never acknowledging the responses. He has responded exactly once on this thread with a link to a journal. That journal was then completely eviscerated by another poster and surprise surprise Peanuts went quiet again. That's why people get laughed at, because it's been nearly four years and loons are still posting easily debunked garbage and claiming it's a fact. I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum. It's because there aren't any facts in favour of your argument, and as you evidenced in your next post . That's why you lot get lols and we're genuinely concerned a horse has been on a head-kicking rampage. It's not censorship, it's the realisation that we are going to have to hear these daft theories forever because apparently a characteristic of being the type of person to fall for them is the inability to acknowledge any response and learn something new.
I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum
Let’s deal with this puerile, ad hominem doggerel : firstly, this isn’t what I wrote and bears no relation to anything I wrote in the post, so don’t put it in quotation marks.
You’ve obviously failed to grasp the very simple point made with regard to people lolling posts I made that contained data/stats from the Government ONS site, so here it is made simple: vaxxer reads data on ONS site that confirms his bias - all good Vaxxer reads data on ONS site posted by someone who chose not to be vaccinated that confounds his bias. He experiences mild cognitive dissonance, doesn’t like the feeling so hits the lol button and is later comforted by the fact that others have done the same.
As for still not understanding the purpose of the vaccine, I understand it only too well. Its purpose wasn’t to prevent transmission or contagion, just, like, if you got it the symptoms wouldn’t be as bad and you won’t die, probably, it’s saved millions of lives, etc
SAVE your granny/lives/ the NHS; ring any bells? the inference is writ large…
That oft quoted ‘saved millions of lives’ may or may not be true, but as it is a wholly unsubstantiated claim with no empirical data to support it and is dependent on nothing more than modeling…
As for censorship on here, I realise it no longer matters; the Covid thread was effectively censored, but so what? I am as entrenched in my position as the vaxxers are in theirs and it’s become as tiresome as it is futile, so I will censor myself. Good luck, all
A very small observation here. You use the term “vaxxer” to describe those of an opinion opposed to yours. I don’t and although I can’t speak for anyone else consider myself a “vaxxer”. That seems to me to imply that I actively support vaccines in the same evangelical way you oppose them. I don’t. I follow the overwhelming scientific evidence and trust the science and scientists and more importantly the doctors who tell me that receiving the vaccine is a good idea.
Strange that some people are willing to think that a vaccine is the cause of their ill health, but refuse to consider that it might be the virus itself that has caused their health to deteriorate.
SARS-Cov-2 is a new virus and less than 4 years in circulation, it's far too soon to be able to rule out that it won't cause illness in future, in those who have had a Covid infection.
This week's revelations from the Covid Inquiry are breath taking and it should really result in charges against those who caused far too many unnecessary deaths by their dreadful decisions and indecision.
Also strange that people think the main reason for their ill health is Covid rather than their poor health levels in the first place.
Also strange that our government and others worldwide would rather lecture people on the benefits of a almost totally untested vaccine than on the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and that just simply taking vitamin D may well help.
There was a claim above that it showed cardiovascular side effects during phase 2/3 of clinical trials. That got taken to pieces. Now you're clamming it was almost totally (??) untested.
Plenty of examples of fit and healthy people dying of covid.
How long are vaccines usually tested for? I’m no expert but I’ll bet it’s a hell of a lot more than the couple of months these ones were so yes compared to all other ones pretty much untested.
Peanuts and a couple of others have posted what are routinely dismissed as ‘anti-vax’ comments on here, the content of which has resulted in the mod who started the thread to consider closing it as well as others who have suggested the same.
Peanuts, in particular, has been subjected to the usual crass and thoughtless accusations of Conspiracy Theorist; disappeared down a rabbit hole; did a horse kick you in the head nonsense simply because he an alternative view to the indignant majority.
The lazy and desperate discrediting of any post that offends the majority as ‘Fake News’ is rife.
In the past on the now defunct Covid thread, I would post data from the Government’s ONS site, but as the stats could sometimes prove to be unsettling for some, they would be lolled. Facts. From the Government’s ONS site… Professors of medicine, infinitely more qualified than anyone on here, were maligned by the mob because they failed to comply with the vaccine orthodoxy. And still are as evidenced on this thread. Fake news: Safe and effective.
There is nothing new in this collective hounding of an alternative stance, but that people are talking of censorship - which the closing down of the thread would effectively be - then that is a different matter.
What I fail to understand is why anyone who is so confident in their own position and finds that of the ‘opposition’ so preposterous that it can be summarily dismissed as being the thoughts of a deluded, Flat Earther, ‘anti vaxxer’ etc should feel sufficiently threatened to demand their views are censored. And spare me the simpering, pearl-clutching view that a post on a football forum that is sceptical/critical of anything vaccine related is in any way remotely dangerous. It is not, and only a person of no mettle and prone to bouts of public histrionics would find it so.
If any danger exists, it is in the talk of censorship.
Peanuts has been maligned because he posts individual links and videos every few days claiming that they show the vaccine is bad. Every single one of those has been debunked, with the 'experts' being outed as either completely out of their mind and unqualified or obviously financially motivated to downplay the effective vaccine in favour of their own brand. Peanuts never, ever responds to the debunking, just ignores it and rolls on posting the same type of stuff and never acknowledging the responses. He has responded exactly once on this thread with a link to a journal. That journal was then completely eviscerated by another poster and surprise surprise Peanuts went quiet again. That's why people get laughed at, because it's been nearly four years and loons are still posting easily debunked garbage and claiming it's a fact. I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum. It's because there aren't any facts in favour of your argument, and as you evidenced in your next post . That's why you lot get lols and we're genuinely concerned a horse has been on a head-kicking rampage. It's not censorship, it's the realisation that we are going to have to hear these daft theories forever because apparently a characteristic of being the type of person to fall for them is the inability to acknowledge any response and learn something new.
I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum
Let’s deal with this puerile, ad hominem doggerel : firstly, this isn’t what I wrote and bears no relation to anything I wrote in the post, so don’t put it in quotation marks.
You’ve obviously failed to grasp the very simple point made with regard to people lolling posts I made that contained data/stats from the Government ONS site, so here it is made simple: vaxxer reads data on ONS site that confirms his bias - all good Vaxxer reads data on ONS site posted by someone who chose not to be vaccinated that confounds his bias. He experiences mild cognitive dissonance, doesn’t like the feeling so hits the lol button and is later comforted by the fact that others have done the same.
As for still not understanding the purpose of the vaccine, I understand it only too well. Its purpose wasn’t to prevent transmission or contagion, just, like, if you got it the symptoms wouldn’t be as bad and you won’t die, probably, it’s saved millions of lives, etc
SAVE your granny/lives/ the NHS; ring any bells? the inference is writ large…
That oft quoted ‘saved millions of lives’ may or may not be true, but as it is a wholly unsubstantiated claim with no empirical data to support it and is dependent on nothing more than modeling…
As for censorship on here, I realise it no longer matters; the Covid thread was effectively censored, but so what? I am as entrenched in my position as the vaxxers are in theirs and it’s become as tiresome as it is futile, so I will censor myself. Good luck, all
A very small observation here. You use the term “vaxxer” to describe those of an opinion opposed to yours. I don’t and although I can’t speak for anyone else consider myself a “vaxxer”. That seems to me to imply that I actively support vaccines in the same evangelical way you oppose them. I don’t. I follow the overwhelming scientific evidence and trust the science and scientists and more importantly the doctors who tell me that receiving the vaccine is a good idea.
To be fair, the term anti-vaxxer has been used extensively to malign anyone that shows any push back against just the Covid vaccine, with nobody making the valid point you make above in defence of that group. It seems to have taken on a bit of a back slapping mindset.
It does work both ways but everyone seems okay with the 'anti-vax' label but not the 'vaxxer' labelling when the methodology applied is identical.
FWIW I'm neither pro nor against. I'm abivalent to it all now, but it is interesting that one label is seen as okay and the other isn't.
Strange that some people are willing to think that a vaccine is the cause of their ill health, but refuse to consider that it might be the virus itself that has caused their health to deteriorate.
SARS-Cov-2 is a new virus and less than 4 years in circulation, it's far too soon to be able to rule out that it won't cause illness in future, in those who have had a Covid infection.
This week's revelations from the Covid Inquiry are breath taking and it should really result in charges against those who caused far too many unnecessary deaths by their dreadful decisions and indecision.
Also strange that people think the main reason for their ill health is Covid rather than their poor health levels in the first place.
Also strange that our government and others worldwide would rather lecture people on the benefits of a almost totally untested vaccine than on the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and that just simply taking vitamin D may well help.
There was a claim above that it showed cardiovascular side effects during phase 2/3 of clinical trials. That got taken to pieces. Now you're clamming it was almost totally (??) untested.
Plenty of examples of fit and healthy people dying of covid.
How long are vaccines usually tested for? I’m no expert but I’ll bet it’s a hell of a lot more than the couple of months these ones were so yes compared to all other ones pretty much untested.
It took ten months and the planet was an a standstill until it was available, so things advanced quicker than normal.
Strange that some people are willing to think that a vaccine is the cause of their ill health, but refuse to consider that it might be the virus itself that has caused their health to deteriorate.
SARS-Cov-2 is a new virus and less than 4 years in circulation, it's far too soon to be able to rule out that it won't cause illness in future, in those who have had a Covid infection.
This week's revelations from the Covid Inquiry are breath taking and it should really result in charges against those who caused far too many unnecessary deaths by their dreadful decisions and indecision.
Also strange that people think the main reason for their ill health is Covid rather than their poor health levels in the first place.
Also strange that our government and others worldwide would rather lecture people on the benefits of a almost totally untested vaccine than on the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and that just simply taking vitamin D may well help.
There was a claim above that it showed cardiovascular side effects during phase 2/3 of clinical trials. That got taken to pieces. Now you're clamming it was almost totally (??) untested.
Plenty of examples of fit and healthy people dying of covid.
How long are vaccines usually tested for? I’m no expert but I’ll bet it’s a hell of a lot more than the couple of months these ones were so yes compared to all other ones pretty much untested.
Testing a clinical trials associated with vaccines can take years. I’d say an average of 5 - 10 years. That said. We’ve never been in a position where there was at the time the very real prospect of having a new disease that killed millions and millions of people. We really didn’t know. The governments of the world and research establishments through the kitchen sink at developing a new vaccine with money and funding not an issue. The same processes used prior to Covid were employed for the Covid vaccines albeit expedited through out of fear and necessity. It was not “pretty much untested”.
Peanuts and a couple of others have posted what are routinely dismissed as ‘anti-vax’ comments on here, the content of which has resulted in the mod who started the thread to consider closing it as well as others who have suggested the same.
Peanuts, in particular, has been subjected to the usual crass and thoughtless accusations of Conspiracy Theorist; disappeared down a rabbit hole; did a horse kick you in the head nonsense simply because he an alternative view to the indignant majority.
The lazy and desperate discrediting of any post that offends the majority as ‘Fake News’ is rife.
In the past on the now defunct Covid thread, I would post data from the Government’s ONS site, but as the stats could sometimes prove to be unsettling for some, they would be lolled. Facts. From the Government’s ONS site… Professors of medicine, infinitely more qualified than anyone on here, were maligned by the mob because they failed to comply with the vaccine orthodoxy. And still are as evidenced on this thread. Fake news: Safe and effective.
There is nothing new in this collective hounding of an alternative stance, but that people are talking of censorship - which the closing down of the thread would effectively be - then that is a different matter.
What I fail to understand is why anyone who is so confident in their own position and finds that of the ‘opposition’ so preposterous that it can be summarily dismissed as being the thoughts of a deluded, Flat Earther, ‘anti vaxxer’ etc should feel sufficiently threatened to demand their views are censored. And spare me the simpering, pearl-clutching view that a post on a football forum that is sceptical/critical of anything vaccine related is in any way remotely dangerous. It is not, and only a person of no mettle and prone to bouts of public histrionics would find it so.
If any danger exists, it is in the talk of censorship.
Peanuts has been maligned because he posts individual links and videos every few days claiming that they show the vaccine is bad. Every single one of those has been debunked, with the 'experts' being outed as either completely out of their mind and unqualified or obviously financially motivated to downplay the effective vaccine in favour of their own brand. Peanuts never, ever responds to the debunking, just ignores it and rolls on posting the same type of stuff and never acknowledging the responses. He has responded exactly once on this thread with a link to a journal. That journal was then completely eviscerated by another poster and surprise surprise Peanuts went quiet again. That's why people get laughed at, because it's been nearly four years and loons are still posting easily debunked garbage and claiming it's a fact. I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum. It's because there aren't any facts in favour of your argument, and as you evidenced in your next post . That's why you lot get lols and we're genuinely concerned a horse has been on a head-kicking rampage. It's not censorship, it's the realisation that we are going to have to hear these daft theories forever because apparently a characteristic of being the type of person to fall for them is the inability to acknowledge any response and learn something new.
I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum
Let’s deal with this puerile, ad hominem doggerel : firstly, this isn’t what I wrote and bears no relation to anything I wrote in the post, so don’t put it in quotation marks.
You’ve obviously failed to grasp the very simple point made with regard to people lolling posts I made that contained data/stats from the Government ONS site, so here it is made simple: vaxxer reads data on ONS site that confirms his bias - all good Vaxxer reads data on ONS site posted by someone who chose not to be vaccinated that confounds his bias. He experiences mild cognitive dissonance, doesn’t like the feeling so hits the lol button and is later comforted by the fact that others have done the same.
As for still not understanding the purpose of the vaccine, I understand it only too well. Its purpose wasn’t to prevent transmission or contagion, just, like, if you got it the symptoms wouldn’t be as bad and you won’t die, probably, it’s saved millions of lives, etc
SAVE your granny/lives/ the NHS; ring any bells? the inference is writ large…
That oft quoted ‘saved millions of lives’ may or may not be true, but as it is a wholly unsubstantiated claim with no empirical data to support it and is dependent on nothing more than modeling…
As for censorship on here, I realise it no longer matters; the Covid thread was effectively censored, but so what? I am as entrenched in my position as the vaxxers are in theirs and it’s become as tiresome as it is futile, so I will censor myself. Good luck, all
A very small observation here. You use the term “vaxxer” to describe those of an opinion opposed to yours. I don’t and although I can’t speak for anyone else consider myself a “vaxxer”. That seems to me to imply that I actively support vaccines in the same evangelical way you oppose them. I don’t. I follow the overwhelming scientific evidence and trust the science and scientists and more importantly the doctors who tell me that receiving the vaccine is a good idea.
To be fair, the term anti-vaxxer has been used extensively to malign anyone that shows any push back against just the Covid vaccine, with nobody making the valid point you make above in defence of that group. It seems to have taken on a bit of a back slapping mindset.
It does work both ways but everyone seems okay with the 'anti-vax' label but not the 'vaxxer' labelling when the methodology apllied is identical.
FWIW I'm neither pro nor against. I'm abivalent to it all now, but it is interesting that one label is seen as okay and the other isn't.
I take your point but the methodology isn’t the same. There is overwhelming support and data supporting vaccines and only a smattering of data and conspiracy to oppose it. I think the term “anti vaxxer” is used pejoratively and I don’t have a problem with that in the slightest. The anti vax views fly in the face of science and expert opinion and in my view is dangerous and should be exposed for what they are.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
I love it when people use phrases like "ad hominem" instead of "personal". If your argument doesn't hold water, using Latin might impress, eh?
Its just a method of wanting to appear intellectually superior to the average person, very Mogg like salad wording to deflect the real nonsense in the past 1000 words. Grapevine, on the other hand for example, writes well, in terms that people with an average, (me), education can understand and he is intellectually superior to the above average person.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
The average person didn't get get his/hers 3 score and ten for the best part of 200 years. Very grim even in most of our lifetimes.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
The average person didn't get get his/hers 3 score and ten for the best part of 200 years. Very grim even in most of our lifetimes.
The average was brought down by the high volume of infant deaths. For people who reached adulthood they had a good chance of living into old age.
Peanuts and a couple of others have posted what are routinely dismissed as ‘anti-vax’ comments on here, the content of which has resulted in the mod who started the thread to consider closing it as well as others who have suggested the same.
Peanuts, in particular, has been subjected to the usual crass and thoughtless accusations of Conspiracy Theorist; disappeared down a rabbit hole; did a horse kick you in the head nonsense simply because he an alternative view to the indignant majority.
The lazy and desperate discrediting of any post that offends the majority as ‘Fake News’ is rife.
In the past on the now defunct Covid thread, I would post data from the Government’s ONS site, but as the stats could sometimes prove to be unsettling for some, they would be lolled. Facts. From the Government’s ONS site… Professors of medicine, infinitely more qualified than anyone on here, were maligned by the mob because they failed to comply with the vaccine orthodoxy. And still are as evidenced on this thread. Fake news: Safe and effective.
There is nothing new in this collective hounding of an alternative stance, but that people are talking of censorship - which the closing down of the thread would effectively be - then that is a different matter.
What I fail to understand is why anyone who is so confident in their own position and finds that of the ‘opposition’ so preposterous that it can be summarily dismissed as being the thoughts of a deluded, Flat Earther, ‘anti vaxxer’ etc should feel sufficiently threatened to demand their views are censored. And spare me the simpering, pearl-clutching view that a post on a football forum that is sceptical/critical of anything vaccine related is in any way remotely dangerous. It is not, and only a person of no mettle and prone to bouts of public histrionics would find it so.
If any danger exists, it is in the talk of censorship.
Peanuts has been maligned because he posts individual links and videos every few days claiming that they show the vaccine is bad. Every single one of those has been debunked, with the 'experts' being outed as either completely out of their mind and unqualified or obviously financially motivated to downplay the effective vaccine in favour of their own brand. Peanuts never, ever responds to the debunking, just ignores it and rolls on posting the same type of stuff and never acknowledging the responses. He has responded exactly once on this thread with a link to a journal. That journal was then completely eviscerated by another poster and surprise surprise Peanuts went quiet again. That's why people get laughed at, because it's been nearly four years and loons are still posting easily debunked garbage and claiming it's a fact. I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum. It's because there aren't any facts in favour of your argument, and as you evidenced in your next post . That's why you lot get lols and we're genuinely concerned a horse has been on a head-kicking rampage. It's not censorship, it's the realisation that we are going to have to hear these daft theories forever because apparently a characteristic of being the type of person to fall for them is the inability to acknowledge any response and learn something new.
I notice you haven't posted a single faclt up there in your big 'everything is so unfair, why do people point out lies are lies, it's censorship' tantrum
Let’s deal with this puerile, ad hominem doggerel : firstly, this isn’t what I wrote and bears no relation to anything I wrote in the post, so don’t put it in quotation marks.
You’ve obviously failed to grasp the very simple point made with regard to people lolling posts I made that contained data/stats from the Government ONS site, so here it is made simple: vaxxer reads data on ONS site that confirms his bias - all good Vaxxer reads data on ONS site posted by someone who chose not to be vaccinated that confounds his bias. He experiences mild cognitive dissonance, doesn’t like the feeling so hits the lol button and is later comforted by the fact that others have done the same.
As for still not understanding the purpose of the vaccine, I understand it only too well. Its purpose wasn’t to prevent transmission or contagion, just, like, if you got it the symptoms wouldn’t be as bad and you won’t die, probably, it’s saved millions of lives, etc
SAVE your granny/lives/ the NHS; ring any bells? the inference is writ large…
That oft quoted ‘saved millions of lives’ may or may not be true, but as it is a wholly unsubstantiated claim with no empirical data to support it and is dependent on nothing more than modeling…
As for censorship on here, I realise it no longer matters; the Covid thread was effectively censored, but so what? I am as entrenched in my position as the vaxxers are in theirs and it’s become as tiresome as it is futile, so I will censor myself. Good luck, all
That's an awful lot of clever big boy words just to say that you still don't have any facts so you'll try and distract by talking around the point because you're out of your depth in reality. Really not used your time well there.
You obviously really don't understand the vaccine and its purpose and I think you've twisted yourself all up in knots again, I've seen people like you so many times in the past few years; adults who think they're smarter than everyone around them but are extremely insecure in their personal status. So you use big words and phrases that you think mask it but actually display it, and you disbelieve reality in favour of conspiracies, because if you don't believe what the majority think and it's just a few of you in your special little club of geniuses then you really are as important as you think you are in your head, right? It's sad, I think you need to have a word with yourself and chill out more than you need a vaccine to be honest, but in all that you did say one true thing; you're completely entrenched in your position. You've decided to believe what you want to believe and no amount of facts or science can bring you back. That's a genuine shame, but as you censor yourself, please go knowing that we are all just really sad for you.
My wife is a statistical analyst in the medical realm. She went to uni for many years to be able to do that. She studied hard, got great results and is highly valued in her industry. She explained - in layman’s terms because I’m an idiot with this stuff - how the vaccines were fast-tracked without compromising safety. How the clinical testing worked and why it’s utterly moronic to believe the conspiracy theories given the stringent systems that are in place to guarantee efficacy and safety. She has to deal with them every day. She can’t fuck up because it puts her job on the line.
So when I see some of the stuff on this thread I think it’s really sad how hard people work to believe in the wrong thing. Especially sad for the people around them who are being put in danger as a result of the misplaced trust in charlatans, fraudsters and maniacs.
Why not respond to the points raised rather than play the victim?
I have done in the past on the Covid thread but realised that it was ultimately as pointless a process as trying to convince me to have a supposed vaccine that prevented neither contagion nor transmission of a virus. As for the hoary old cliché of playing the victim, I have said more than once than I do not consider myself a victim; it is the people who have been coerced, threatened, lied to and frightened into taking a ‘vaccine’ whom I consider the victims.
They’ve been had through no fault of their own.
You just massively patronised the majority of people in this country, let alone on this forum.
I’m assuming you don’t have any medics in the family or in your friend group who could discuss your fears properly?
Who exactly do you think have ‘coerced, threatened, lied and frightened the public into taking the vaccine’?
You clearly feel there’s an enormous conspiracy here involving the government, the NHS, the medical science industry, and the people who manufacture the vaccines. That’s way more than a million people keeping this attempt at the world’s greatest ever con trick secret. Despite the fact that probably three quarters of them are on wages that hover just above the minimum wage. And yet none of them would spill the beans for cash? And even if you think it’s only senior management at the NHS that are involved, aided by the government and ‘big pharma’, do you really think none of them would squeak, either because they developed a conscience, or for cash? With proper evidence of this conspiracy, not Andrew Wakefield style fake correlation based on the most feeble theories that only the most gullible would believe.
And why do you put ‘vaccine’ in inverted commas? Are you saying they’re not vaccines? I just don’t get it. But I guess you feel sorry for us mugs who would rather listen the the medics than Andrew Bridgen.
Please don’t close down this thread, but please do consider deleting the posts that spread anti vax disinformation and conspiracy theories. As a publisher you have that right, in the same way as BBC News, ITN and Sky News do.
Yeah, please only print one side of the arguement.
It isn’t an argument.
One side is peer reviewed scientific fact, on the other disinformation that actually kills people.
If you have any concerns look at the NHS website, and avoid the weirdo grifters on YouTube and Facebook.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
The average person didn't get get his/hers 3 score and ten for the best part of 200 years. Very grim even in most of our lifetimes.
The average was brought down by the high volume of infant deaths. For people who reached adulthood they had a good chance of living into old age.
That got a LOL - it's not something I've made up, there's plenty of evidence and explanations out there. As an example:
In the 1840s around 15% of babies died before their first birthday compared with 0.4% in 2011, demonstrating the vast improvements made in reducing infant mortality.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
The average person didn't get get his/hers 3 score and ten for the best part of 200 years. Very grim even in most of our lifetimes.
The average was brought down by the high volume of infant deaths. For people who reached adulthood they had a good chance of living into old age.
That got a LOL - it's not something I've made up, there's plenty of evidence and explanations out there. As an example:
In the 1840s around 15% of babies died before their first birthday compared with 0.4% in 2011, demonstrating the vast improvements made in reducing infant mortality.
If you call making it 60 as living to old age, according to that graph if you make it to 18 in 2011 you are expected to live to 80.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
The average person didn't get get his/hers 3 score and ten for the best part of 200 years. Very grim even in most of our lifetimes.
The average was brought down by the high volume of infant deaths. For people who reached adulthood they had a good chance of living into old age.
That got a LOL - it's not something I've made up, there's plenty of evidence and explanations out there. As an example:
In the 1840s around 15% of babies died before their first birthday compared with 0.4% in 2011, demonstrating the vast improvements made in reducing infant mortality.
If you call making it 60 as living to old age, according to that graph if you make it to 18 in 2011 you are expected to live to 80.
Old age wasn’t the right term but the point doesn’t change - Victorians weren’t considered elderly and at the end of their life at 40. Plenty lived in to their 60s and 70s with some well beyond that.
I prefer to rely on my natural immune system which l look after with diet,fresh air and excersise.l will not compromise it with experimental drugs.l have never had covid although many of my friends and family are now having ill health which they attribute to the jab.lt seems that people would rather shoot the messenger than admit they have been had.
How do explain the below? Air is cleaner now than in 1770?
Shit, if I've read that graph right, I should be dead.
The average person didn't get get his/hers 3 score and ten for the best part of 200 years. Very grim even in most of our lifetimes.
The average was brought down by the high volume of infant deaths. For people who reached adulthood they had a good chance of living into old age.
That got a LOL - it's not something I've made up, there's plenty of evidence and explanations out there. As an example:
In the 1840s around 15% of babies died before their first birthday compared with 0.4% in 2011, demonstrating the vast improvements made in reducing infant mortality.
As the bible says for the lifespan of a human, 3 scores year and 10, i.e. 70. If you survived childhood, you had a good chance of reaching a decent age.
Strange that some people are willing to think that a vaccine is the cause of their ill health, but refuse to consider that it might be the virus itself that has caused their health to deteriorate.
SARS-Cov-2 is a new virus and less than 4 years in circulation, it's far too soon to be able to rule out that it won't cause illness in future, in those who have had a Covid infection.
This week's revelations from the Covid Inquiry are breath taking and it should really result in charges against those who caused far too many unnecessary deaths by their dreadful decisions and indecision.
Also strange that people think the main reason for their ill health is Covid rather than their poor health levels in the first place.
Also strange that our government and others worldwide would rather lecture people on the benefits of a almost totally untested vaccine than on the benefits of living a healthy lifestyle and that just simply taking vitamin D may well help.
The following is a very large study on Long Covid.
Comments
Let’s deal with this puerile, ad hominem doggerel : firstly, this isn’t what I wrote and bears no relation to anything I wrote in the post, so don’t put it in quotation marks.
vaxxer reads data on ONS site that confirms his bias - all good
Vaxxer reads data on ONS site posted by someone who chose not to be vaccinated that confounds his bias. He experiences mild cognitive dissonance, doesn’t like the feeling so hits the lol button and is later comforted by the fact that others have done the same.
As for still not understanding the purpose of the vaccine, I understand it only too well. Its purpose wasn’t to prevent transmission or contagion, just, like, if you got it the symptoms
wouldn’t be as bad and you won’t die, probably, it’s saved millions of lives, etc
SAVE your granny/lives/ the NHS; ring any bells? the inference is writ large…
That oft quoted ‘saved millions of lives’ may or may not be true, but as it is a wholly unsubstantiated claim with no empirical data to support it and is dependent on nothing more than modeling…
As for censorship on here, I realise it no longer matters; the Covid thread was effectively censored, but so what? I am as entrenched in my position as the vaxxers are in theirs and it’s become as tiresome as it is futile, so I will censor myself. Good luck, all
Long term meta analysis of COVID vaccine effectiveness. Pretty self explanatory results
Plenty of examples of fit and healthy people dying of covid.
It does work both ways but everyone seems okay with the 'anti-vax' label but not the 'vaxxer' labelling when the methodology applied is identical.
FWIW I'm neither pro nor against. I'm abivalent to it all now, but it is interesting that one label is seen as okay and the other isn't.
Grapevine, on the other hand for example, writes well, in terms that people with an average, (me), education can understand and he is intellectually superior to the above average person.
Mea culpa.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/lifeexpectancies/articles/howhaslifeexpectancychangedovertime/2015-09-09
In the 1840s around 15% of babies died before their first birthday compared with 0.4% in 2011, demonstrating the vast improvements made in reducing infant mortality.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-41879-2?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
There are numerous studies into the effects of Covid on the body. Many previously healthy people have suffered very badly after a Covid infection.