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Wigan financial woes - up for sale again? p40
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Why are these people allowed near our clubs. Needs to stop.
Shouldn't be able to get involved with a club and threaten its very going concern or existence from the same postcode let alone the other side of the world. At least with the former they might feel some sort of blowback from any fallout legally or otherwise if they live and operate in the same area.
There should be a mandatory fiduciary duty when taking on these clubs which are not mere businesses to be used as playthings of entitled billionaires or assets on the balance sheets of convoluted corporate structures. And there should be real financial and legal penalties for those who breach this duty through incompetence, bluff or downright conniving wrong doing.
For every Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha and Steve Gibson there appears to be tens of shady and dodgy or incompetent chancers from here and afar and no one seems to be doing anything to stop it which of itself is criminal.
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Cafc43v3r said:
I don't think the suggestion is he walked into a high street bookies and put £10 million on at 12/1.bobmunro said:
Although there would be loads of ways to move "smaller" bets.Was I suggesting that was the case?It is allegedly a bet with a Philippines bookmaker who are all unregulated crooks - and I mean big time crooks.I can just imagine the conversation.Choi: I would like £10 million (or £100 million as reported) on Wigan Athletic to be relegated, what's the best price you can give me?Bookmaker: I understand you own Wigan Athletic, Mr Choi.Choi: What's that got to do with it?Bookmaker: I will find you, and I will kill you!If there was unusual betting activity (and this would, I believe, be described as somewhat unusual), then every alarm bell in the regulated industry would be going off. If a Philippine bookmaker would even dream of laying that sort of bet it would be at a lesser price than they could guarantee to get with any regulated bookmaker in the UK/Europe. Lay at 12s and back at 14s for example - i.e. arbitrage. But they would not get on and regulated bookmakers would immediately inform ESSA (now the International Betting Integrity Association) of that activity.As I said, it is bollox.7 -
What odds are you offering on Wigan's regulation?
Asking for a friend.
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The floodlight scam in the past suggests to me the betting on relegation story is not that far fetched.3
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Am I right in thinking that to 'lay' a bet is to put the gamble on hold and it wont be paid out if there is a dispute?
Am I also right in thinking gambling disputes are not enforceable by law?0 -
If that is true, something has to be done. You can't go on punishing fans when these crooks just make money and run with no thought to the damage caused.Clarky said:This is unbelievable if true, but will it change anything re points deduction as the club are still in administration!0 -
So you haven't layed Stoke thenbobmunro said:Cafc43v3r said:
I don't think the suggestion is he walked into a high street bookies and put £10 million on at 12/1.bobmunro said:
Although there would be loads of ways to move "smaller" bets.Was I suggesting that was the case?It is allegedly a bet with a Philippines bookmaker who are all unregulated crooks - and I mean big time crooks.I can just imagine the conversation.Choi: I would like £10 million (or £100 million as reported) on Wigan Athletic to be relegated, what's the best price you can give me?Bookmaker: I understand you own Wigan Athletic, Mr Choi.Choi: What's that got to do with it?Bookmaker: I will find you, and I will kill you!If there was unusual betting activity (and this would, I believe, be described as somewhat unusual), then every alarm bell in the regulated industry would be going off. If a Philippine bookmaker would even dream of laying that sort of bet it would be at a lesser price than they could guarantee to get with any regulated bookmaker in the UK/Europe. Lay at 12s and back at 14s for example - i.e. arbitrage. But they would not get on and regulated bookmakers would immediately inform ESSA (now the International Betting Integrity Association) of that activity.As I said, it is bollox.
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It’s probably bollox but the Chinese like a bet and as I said earlier you don’t need a bookie to make a bet.bobmunro said:Cafc43v3r said:
I don't think the suggestion is he walked into a high street bookies and put £10 million on at 12/1.bobmunro said:
Although there would be loads of ways to move "smaller" bets.Was I suggesting that was the case?It is allegedly a bet with a Philippines bookmaker who are all unregulated crooks - and I mean big time crooks.I can just imagine the conversation.Choi: I would like £10 million (or £100 million as reported) on Wigan Athletic to be relegated, what's the best price you can give me?Bookmaker: I understand you own Wigan Athletic, Mr Choi.Choi: What's that got to do with it?Bookmaker: I will find you, and I will kill you!If there was unusual betting activity (and this would, I believe, be described as somewhat unusual), then every alarm bell in the regulated industry would be going off. If a Philippine bookmaker would even dream of laying that sort of bet it would be at a lesser price than they could guarantee to get with any regulated bookmaker in the UK/Europe. Lay at 12s and back at 14s for example - i.e. arbitrage. But they would not get on and regulated bookmakers would immediately inform ESSA (now the International Betting Integrity Association) of that activity.As I said, it is bollox.2 -
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Just that loan agreement shows the EFL up for being utterly incompetent. Which of those morons actually reviews this stuff?
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Changed it for youShootersHillGuru said:
It’s probably bollox but the Chinese like a bat and as I said earlier you don’t need a bookie to make a bet.bobmunro said:Cafc43v3r said:
I don't think the suggestion is he walked into a high street bookies and put £10 million on at 12/1.bobmunro said:
Although there would be loads of ways to move "smaller" bets.Was I suggesting that was the case?It is allegedly a bet with a Philippines bookmaker who are all unregulated crooks - and I mean big time crooks.I can just imagine the conversation.Choi: I would like £10 million (or £100 million as reported) on Wigan Athletic to be relegated, what's the best price you can give me?Bookmaker: I understand you own Wigan Athletic, Mr Choi.Choi: What's that got to do with it?Bookmaker: I will find you, and I will kill you!If there was unusual betting activity (and this would, I believe, be described as somewhat unusual), then every alarm bell in the regulated industry would be going off. If a Philippine bookmaker would even dream of laying that sort of bet it would be at a lesser price than they could guarantee to get with any regulated bookmaker in the UK/Europe. Lay at 12s and back at 14s for example - i.e. arbitrage. But they would not get on and regulated bookmakers would immediately inform ESSA (now the International Betting Integrity Association) of that activity.As I said, it is bollox.1 -
Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't the financial service regulator as well.IdleHans said:Just that loan agreement shows the EFL up for being utterly incompetent. Which of those morons actually reviews this stuff?
Perhaps they need to be. If the new owners have to demonstrate 2years funding, theyd need to have demonstrated a hell of a lot more than a normal club would require to service that debt.
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Any chance someone could publish what was in the tweet for those of us not on twitter.killerandflash said:0 -
The 2 years funding is bench marked allegedly. In other words the EFL pulled it out of someone's arse.IdleHans said:Cafc43v3r said:
They aren't the financial service regulator as well.IdleHans said:Just that loan agreement shows the EFL up for being utterly incompetent. Which of those morons actually reviews this stuff?
Perhaps they need to be. If the new owners have to demonstrate 2years funding, theyd need to have demonstrated a hell of a lot more than a normal club would require to service that debt.
It is no business of the EFL, the FA or any other football organisation to dictate what interest rates can and can't be charged on inter company loans.
Now if the govenmnet changed the law, or all the members voted for the creation of a regulator that would be a totally different story.
The EFL, rightly get stick for doing what they do do badly. But you can't blame them for everything that's wrong and that they have no authority to control.3 -
golfaddick said:
Any chance someone could publish what was in the tweet for those of us not on twitter.killerandflash said:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1279000646335836163.html
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You don't need to be on twitter, just click the link and read, it's exactly what I did.golfaddick said:
Any chance someone could publish what was in the tweet for those of us not on twitter.killerandflash said:2 -
We need to stop dreaming about the EFL regulating financial matters and company transactions.
They can decide how many substitutes you can use in a game or which players are eligible to play.
It's the government that are responsible for the laws of the country - not the EFL!
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But it is well within their capabilities to demand an owner or holding company place a bond with the governing body, equivalent to the wages of the players. This is then paid out if the club struggles to meet it's obligations. This is done in cycling where the best teams have budgets bigger and equivalent to average championship teams.9
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And this 'bond' should not be transferrable between 'holding' companies. Each different entity should be forced to bank this with the governing body. Said governing body could then invest this money in say gilts and then use it to have a proper compliance team.4
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It's not within their capabilities at all. They are a member organisation. Their members have to vote for it, they won't.ColinTat said:But it is well within their capabilities to demand an owner or holding company place a bond with the governing body, equivalent to the wages of the players. This is then paid out if the club struggles to meet it's obligations. This is done in cycling where the best teams have budgets bigger and equivalent to average championship teams.
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I know the EFL seem to be unfit for purpose but what a logistical nightmare it must be to try to do background checks on all these con men . They can only have a certain amount of staff and access to information. They have an impossible job in my opinion . The one thing they can improve on is communication . They are an almost silent organisation and the silence is the most frustrating thing .3
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It is within their capabilities. From what I can see it is within each division's rights if a simple majority present or 75% of members agree of that div. Of course this would not happen in the Championship: Wigan would almost certainly not support a vote on it if/when they were a L1 side.
As an aside if you could enforce the impossible in the champ, then relegated Prem teams should be forced to lodge a significant % of parachute payments: whilst enforcing a tapering of their wages over two years. Never would happen in the Champ unless a majority went bankrupt.0 -
Have now heard on Talkshite that the Parry recording about the owners making a bet in the Philippines, is over two weeks old, yet Wigan didn't plump for administration until this Wednesday.ShootersHillGuru said:
It’s probably bollox but the Chinese like a bet and as I said earlier you don’t need a bookie to make a bet.bobmunro said:Cafc43v3r said:
I don't think the suggestion is he walked into a high street bookies and put £10 million on at 12/1.bobmunro said:
Although there would be loads of ways to move "smaller" bets.Was I suggesting that was the case?It is allegedly a bet with a Philippines bookmaker who are all unregulated crooks - and I mean big time crooks.I can just imagine the conversation.Choi: I would like £10 million (or £100 million as reported) on Wigan Athletic to be relegated, what's the best price you can give me?Bookmaker: I understand you own Wigan Athletic, Mr Choi.Choi: What's that got to do with it?Bookmaker: I will find you, and I will kill you!If there was unusual betting activity (and this would, I believe, be described as somewhat unusual), then every alarm bell in the regulated industry would be going off. If a Philippine bookmaker would even dream of laying that sort of bet it would be at a lesser price than they could guarantee to get with any regulated bookmaker in the UK/Europe. Lay at 12s and back at 14s for example - i.e. arbitrage. But they would not get on and regulated bookmakers would immediately inform ESSA (now the International Betting Integrity Association) of that activity.As I said, it is bollox.
EDIT: BBC reporting that Parry was discussing the issues at WAFC that happened over the last 24-48 hours, so probably bollocks.
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Head person at the EFL
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But the EFL is the club owners. It is not a governing body or a regulator.ColinTat said:And this 'bond' should not be transferrable between 'holding' companies. Each different entity should be forced to bank this with the governing body. Said governing body could then invest this money in say gilts and then use it to have a proper compliance team.
Who the hell would trust money with an organisation controlled by the owners of Wigan, Charlton, Shef Wed and Derby etc.
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The second in charge.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53278818
EFL busy with Macclesfield. I can’t see the point of an independent hearing if they appeal every decision. Seems a fair conclusion they reached from my impartial position.
Bullying smaller clubs seems to be what they do, but let’s see what they do to the massive Sheffield Wednesday.8 -
Redrobo said:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53278818
EFL busy with Macclesfield. I can’t see the point of an independent hearing if they appeal every decision. Seems a fair conclusion they reached from my impartial position.
Bullying smaller clubs seems to be what they do, but let’s see what they do to the massive Sheffield Wednesday.
Live pictures from EFL HQ ...
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