And speaking of Pratley, on a side-note I think he is being wildly over-marked for yesterday. Yeah he got a few tackles in (along with a few missed tackles) but they generally gave possession straight back to Hull (usually in the form of a throw) - you can't get by JUST on being disruptive! He was a big reason we saw so little of the ball in the second half. His main positive appears to be at defensive set-pieces. In possession he is almost completely useless - one failed pass especially sticks in the craw - and he kept running into the same space as Cullen as apparently his job was to hunt and destroy the football rather than do anything with it. I absolutely hate that and I don't think it's necessary, especially when we have players - Cullen, Field etc - who can do that sort of job at a greater pace and also do something more with the ball when we get it. Pratley gets a lot of love for his big-tackling effort but I think he also clips our wings as a football team. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but there is no player in our squad who doesn't try their heart out, and just because he sticks it in Row Z a lot doesn't mean he somehow deserves to be praised more than the others.
EDIT FOR FAIRNESS: I know he's generally had a good season and has had plenty of better games than that yesterday, and there's something to be said for having a destructive monster in midfield. He has presence, if not any ball skill
I weary of saying that most young players are inconsistent, and it really does take time to adjust to real mens football. Joe Gomez was an exception I know. Alfie Doherty was being raved about recently, but yesterday he was relatively quiet. There are a number of posters here like the excellent bolloxbolder, or Paddy7 who might agree that the development from boyz to men is not an exact science or easy to predict or judge, Karlan Grant being a good example of that. Personally at the development stage one of the more reliable measures is against peers of the same age and stage, which is why I think both Morgan and Lapslie have a future in the game.
Bowyer cleary rates his ability, but feels he does not do enough in work rate for all the talent he has. Morgan has cleary trained well and Bowyer has rewarded him with the start.
Albi is a class player and if he can up the work rate he will be a very good player for us
agreed but bowyer must also be aware that some players just have far better engines than others - you wouldn't ask mat le tissier to go box to box all game - getting morgan as fit as he can be yes but a bit like chucks, some players just aren't built like the wirey young bowyer who was literally an engine on legs with bags of talent and desire as well
Earlier in the season Bowyer spoke about his time at Leeds and how when George Graham arrived he was dropped as he did not work hard enough without the ball. In the end Bowyer conformed to Graham's way, got back in the team and never looked back.
I suspect he is doing the same with Albi, and its great he was back in the starting line up yesterday.
If you want exceptions in a team pattern like Le Tissier they need to be exceptional players, Albi is a long way from that.
We have a lot of players who are not good enough for this level, but thanks to sheer hard work, sheer bloody mindness, and the great work of Bowyer, Jacko, Gallen we have only been in the bottom 3 once all season. At present if you want to play in the team you need to conform to Bowyer's hard work ethic.
It's imperative that we get him to sign a new contract. It would be absolutely gutting to see him move on to another club in return for derisory compensation. We have lost so many good young players under the yoke of Duchatelet and can't afford to lose any more.
And speaking of Pratley, on a side-note I think he is being wildly over-marked for yesterday. Yeah he got a few tackles in (along with a few missed tackles) but they generally gave possession straight back to Hull (usually in the form of a throw) - you can't get by JUST on being disruptive! He was a big reason we saw so little of the ball in the second half. His main positive appears to be at defensive set-pieces. In possession he is almost completely useless - one failed pass especially sticks in the craw - and he kept running into the same space as Cullen as apparently his job was to hunt and destroy the football rather than do anything with it. I absolutely hate that and I don't think it's necessary, especially when we have players - Cullen, Field etc - who can do that sort of job at a greater pace and also do something more with the ball when we get it. Pratley gets a lot of love for his big-tackling effort but I think he also clips our wings as a football team. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but there is no player in our squad who doesn't try their heart out, and just because he sticks it in Row Z a lot doesn't mean he somehow deserves to be praised more than the others.
EDIT FOR FAIRNESS: I know he's generally had a good season and has had plenty of better games than that yesterday, and there's something to be said for having a destructive monster in midfield. He has presence, if not any ball skill
I am a big fan of Pratley because of the experience, leadership and effort he brings to the team (e.g. Doncaster play-off semi-final at home last season). However, I don't disagree with your analysis. We do so often give the ball away cheaply contributing to those games where the opposition have >60% of possession. Just a little more skill on the ball if only to lay-off the ball to a teammate after a tackle would relieve some of the pressure. Virtually every game I have watched us play in the Championship this season, even when we win, I feel like the opposition just seem more comfortable in passing the ball around and keeping possession. Pratley isn't the only one who is not great in possession but if we do want to play with two holding midfielders I wonder if a fit again Field might be the better central midfield partner for Cullen in a few of the remaining games. Of course, that assumes Field is fit enough to last 70-75 minutes!
The way I look at it. He has a vision and ability with his range of passing that you can't teach. What you can teach is the other parts of the game and I doubt there will be many better teachers than Bowyer. It is the way round you want it with Morgan.
And speaking of Pratley, on a side-note I think he is being wildly over-marked for yesterday. Yeah he got a few tackles in (along with a few missed tackles) but they generally gave possession straight back to Hull (usually in the form of a throw) - you can't get by JUST on being disruptive! He was a big reason we saw so little of the ball in the second half. His main positive appears to be at defensive set-pieces. In possession he is almost completely useless - one failed pass especially sticks in the craw - and he kept running into the same space as Cullen as apparently his job was to hunt and destroy the football rather than do anything with it. I absolutely hate that and I don't think it's necessary, especially when we have players - Cullen, Field etc - who can do that sort of job at a greater pace and also do something more with the ball when we get it. Pratley gets a lot of love for his big-tackling effort but I think he also clips our wings as a football team. I know this won't be a popular opinion, but there is no player in our squad who doesn't try their heart out, and just because he sticks it in Row Z a lot doesn't mean he somehow deserves to be praised more than the others.
EDIT FOR FAIRNESS: I know he's generally had a good season and has had plenty of better games than that yesterday, and there's something to be said for having a destructive monster in midfield. He has presence, if not any ball skill
Totally agree - the pass with about 5 mins to go to chucks was dreadful - just hold on to it if u can’t guarantee making the pass at that stage - he’s a needs must type player but certainly not the solution if we are to improve and stop hanging on for grim death every game
Bowyer cleary rates his ability, but feels he does not do enough in work rate for all the talent he has. Morgan has cleary trained well and Bowyer has rewarded him with the start.
Albi is a class player and if he can up the work rate he will be a very good player for us
agreed but bowyer must also be aware that some players just have far better engines than others - you wouldn't ask mat le tissier to go box to box all game - getting morgan as fit as he can be yes but a bit like chucks, some players just aren't built like the wirey young bowyer who was literally an engine on legs with bags of talent and desire as well
Earlier in the season Bowyer spoke about his time at Leeds and how when George Graham arrived he was dropped as he did not work hard enough without the ball. In the end Bowyer conformed to Graham's way, got back in the team and never looked back.
I suspect he is doing the same with Albi, and its great he was back in the starting line up yesterday.
If you want exceptions in a team pattern like Le Tissier they need to be exceptional players, Albi is a long way from that.
We have a lot of players who are not good enough for this level, but thanks to sheer hard work, sheer bloody mindness, and the great work of Bowyer, Jacko, Gallen we have only been in the bottom 3 once all season. At present if you want to play in the team you need to conform to Bowyer's hard work ethic.
Is the right answer but albu Morgan’s game is never going to be built on what bowyer used to do and I agree regarding needing to be exceptional if a luxury - doesn’t mean he won’t have s role to play for us but probably will mean he will drop down the leagues
We've got 3 really promising youngsters in Morgan, Lapslie & Doughty. Get them signed on good long deals, if we stay up I feel they could be decent Championship players next season
Do what Bowyer asks of you and you’ll be treated on merit. Doesn’t matter what’s gone before or relative seniority. Displease Bowyer and it won’t matter how talented you are, you won’t be selected.
Morgan’s got all the tools to be a very good player, but Bows knows what he wants and I think his criticism of Albie was not unjustified.
Seems he’s bucked his ideas up and no coincidence he had his best game of the season now he’s got fitter. There was a surprising turn of pace at one point in the first half. Will be a huge bonus if he can keep up what we saw yesterday.
Special talent who does things you cannot teach. What he doesn't have is a natural engine, like Bowyer had. He will need to work to build that, and that means keeping himself in peak physical shape. Yesterday he looked to me like he had lost 3 or 4 kg and that showed in his first half performance. Next step, he needs to keep it going for 90 minutes, then he'll be really special. Regarding Pratley, easy to criticise his limitations, but where would we be without his contributions in the playoff second leg v Donny or at Wembley?
We are not over blessed with creative players so to see Morgon selected and play well is a big bonus. Special mention for his defensive work as well. Like others i reckon he's lost 3 or 4 Kg, all good.
Yes Morgan needed to get fitter and perhaps be more "professional", but he's got talent and I've always been slightly unhappy with the way he was rather bombed out earlier this season, and seemed to be a last resort option, e.g. the bizarre decision to start Ledley at Boro ahead of him.
If you have a talented player, you can make them work harder, but if you have a player without the vision and touch, there's a limit to how far they can go. We won't stay up with a team of water carriers in midfield, we do need some creativity as well.
Quiet fancy a Morgan myself, not the three wheel version though. To my mind young players always benefit from a break from the team, they come back a bit older and stronger.
Don’t think they made any three wheelers did they, Morgan? Charlie Morgan was an ITN cameraman before he left to take over the family business. Think he’s been forced out now though.
Pleased to see Morgan starting again. We haven’t scored enough goals this seasons and Morgan has that quality to make that final pass for quality chances.Surely with Pratley and Cullen sitting behind him they must have the capacity to cover an extra 10% of ground which Morgan cannot do.
He is one player which we must try and keep at the club.
Morgan is the modern day Mortimer, or maybe more recently a shelvey.
Bags of talent but can he apply it....... consistently and also continue to learn and develop. He was originally released a few years ago, manly due to his aptitude and not ability. Hope he gets a new contract AND accepts it and all it entails.
He clearly has the ability to push on and be a real player, time will tell if he manages it.
Morgan is the modern day Mortimer, or maybe more recently a shelvey.
Bags of talent but can he apply it....... consistently and also continue to learn and develop. He was originally released a few years ago, manly due to his aptitude and not ability. Hope he gets a new contract AND accepts it and all it entails.
He clearly has the ability to push on and be a real player, time will tell if he manages it.
Was he released - I thought I read that he was the one who made the decision to leave?
I get the impression that fitness was going to play a huge part in the first couple of games at least and that may explain at least some of why he was back in
Comments
EDIT FOR FAIRNESS: I know he's generally had a good season and has had plenty of better games than that yesterday, and there's something to be said for having a destructive monster in midfield. He has presence, if not any ball skill
Joe Gomez was an exception I know.
Alfie Doherty was being raved about recently, but yesterday he was relatively quiet.
There are a number of posters here like the excellent bolloxbolder, or Paddy7 who might agree that the development from boyz to men is not an exact science or easy to predict or judge, Karlan Grant being a good example of that.
Personally at the development stage one of the more reliable measures is against peers of the same age and stage, which is why I think both Morgan and Lapslie have a future in the game.
I suspect he is doing the same with Albi, and its great he was back in the starting line up yesterday.
If you want exceptions in a team pattern like Le Tissier they need to be exceptional players, Albi is a long way from that.
We have a lot of players who are not good enough for this level, but thanks to sheer hard work, sheer bloody mindness, and the great work of Bowyer, Jacko, Gallen we have only been in the bottom 3 once all season. At present if you want to play in the team you need to conform to Bowyer's hard work ethic.
It's imperative that we get him to sign a new contract. It would be absolutely gutting to see him move on to another club in return for derisory compensation. We have lost so many good young players under the yoke of Duchatelet and can't afford to lose any more.
He will need to work to build that, and that means keeping himself in peak physical shape.
Yesterday he looked to me like he had lost 3 or 4 kg and that showed in his first half performance.
Next step, he needs to keep it going for 90 minutes, then he'll be really special.
Regarding Pratley, easy to criticise his limitations, but where would we be without his contributions in the playoff second leg v Donny or at Wembley?
Like others i reckon he's lost 3 or 4 Kg, all good.
Please sign him up on a 3 year contract Charlton.
If you have a talented player, you can make them work harder, but if you have a player without the vision and touch, there's a limit to how far they can go. We won't stay up with a team of water carriers in midfield, we do need some creativity as well.
Charlie Morgan was an ITN cameraman before he left to take over the family business. Think he’s been forced out now though.
Bags of talent but can he apply it....... consistently and also continue to learn and develop. He was originally released a few years ago, manly due to his aptitude and not ability. Hope he gets a new contract AND accepts it and all it entails.
He clearly has the ability to push on and be a real player, time will tell if he manages it.