Watched all 3 episodes last night. No spoilers for anyone that hasn't watched it yet, but I do recall the rumours in the late 80s that Catford nick was dodgy & corrupt. I grew up in Catford (Forest Hill end) so I remember this happening.
Daniel Morgan lived near one of my colleagues, we used to instruct him from time to time and I met him briefly once or twice in the mid-80s. It is certainly a very grisly tale.
Afternoon. After our match at Selhurst I got the 75 bus to the lion to meet my Dad who lived 300 yards from the pub. Must have got there quite late, I think we had extra time that game. To be honest it just seemed another evening in my old local. Had a couple of pints, stayed at my parents that night, went home to Deptford next morning.
2 days later the police were knocking on all the doors asking if anyone had seen or heard anything. My Dad answered and invited the policeman in. He told the policeman that I had been in the pub that night, and gave him address, phone number, etc. The policeman who was there with Dad had a few glasses of whiskey and after around 3 hours the doorbell went again and saw a van full of police outside waiting for their guv'nor. They finished off the bottle and the policeman left. Dad phoned me to tell me that the police would contact me "soon" to see if I saw anything (I hadn't) that night.
33 years later the police still haven't contacted me regarding that evening, in my opinion, the police were not interested in the case. This is also the popular opinion of many of the people I know in Sydenham. The police had to be seen doing their work.
I’ve not been well P. Got covid and spent 17 days in hospital back in March/April....with all the complications that arose from it, I guess you can say I was pretty lucky to have pulled through.🤒😷🤕💉
I’ve not been well P. Got covid and spent 17 days in hospital back in March/April....with all the complications that arose from it, I guess you can say I was pretty lucky to have pulled through.🤒😷🤕💉
Hoping you're okay now. Living in a Residential (over 55) home I've been pretty much locked in for the last 3 months, advised to only go out once a week for medication and shopping. Thank God everything at The Valley is running smoothly, wouldn't need any more stress. 😉
Take care of yourself, will have to meet up when all this is over. Golden Lion ?
I’ve not been well P. Got covid and spent 17 days in hospital back in March/April....with all the complications that arose from it, I guess you can say I was pretty lucky to have pulled through.🤒😷🤕💉
Hoping you're okay now. Living in a Residential (over 55) home I've been pretty much locked in for the last 3 months, advised to only go out once a week for medication and shopping. Thank God everything at The Valley is running smoothly, wouldn't need any more stress. 😉
Take care of yourself, will have to meet up when all this is over. Golden Lion ?
I’ve not been well P. Got covid and spent 17 days in hospital back in March/April....with all the complications that arose from it, I guess you can say I was pretty lucky to have pulled through.🤒😷🤕💉
Hoping you're okay now. Living in a Residential (over 55) home I've been pretty much locked in for the last 3 months, advised to only go out once a week for medication and shopping. Thank God everything at The Valley is running smoothly, wouldn't need any more stress. 😉
Take care of yourself, will have to meet up when all this is over. Golden Lion ?
Did you make it to Wembley?
Nope, boycott meant boycott. Haven't seen us live since the M'boro home match on Sky with the beachballs, etc.
I’ve not been well P. Got covid and spent 17 days in hospital back in March/April....with all the complications that arose from it, I guess you can say I was pretty lucky to have pulled through.🤒😷🤕💉
Hoping you're okay now. Living in a Residential (over 55) home I've been pretty much locked in for the last 3 months, advised to only go out once a week for medication and shopping. Thank God everything at The Valley is running smoothly, wouldn't need any more stress. 😉
Take care of yourself, will have to meet up when all this is over. Golden Lion ?
Did you make it to Wembley?
Nope, boycott meant boycott. Haven't seen us live since the M'boro home match on Sky with the beachballs, etc.
In the summer of 1987 detective constable Alan "Taffy" Holmes who was an acquaintance of Morgan was found to have committed suicide under mysterious circumstances UNQUOTE .. this is mentioned in the wiki entry relating to the murder .. I do not remember it being mentioned in the programme .. also, the 'fake sheikh' .. was rather glossed over in the programme as was the 'stolen' 18 grand .. the sheikh con must have been very lucrative for the villains and News International. London is still riddled with villains of all sorts .. drug dealing is rife and out of control as well as very profitable .. AND of course, where there is BIG illegal cash, there will be murders and corruption .. I enjoyed the 3 parter
This happened before I was born but given the local area, I knew some of the details but not all of them detailed to the depth in this.
Like all good documentaries, it’s like peeling an onion, where layer upon layer of further detail is revealed. Weirdest revelation for me was in the last episode - the identity of the business partners’ wife. Some people have strange lives!
You have to think that the business partner and nonce have significant dirt on each other, probably relating to this, but also other topics. Regardless of this case, you can judge their characters based on their implication in the drug planting on an innocent woman in an attempt to stop her having access to her kids, let alone some of the News of the World stuff. Disgusting human beings
Evening. Just a quick point. The fact that I was in The Golden Lion that night and 33 years later, nobody has ever contacted me about that, actually frightens me. I'm not, and never will be ACAB, but its still concerns me.
Evening. Just a quick point. The fact that I was in The Golden Lion that night and 33 years later, nobody has ever contacted me about that, actually frightens me. I'm not, and never will be ACAB, but its still concerns me.
Well, if you have anything of interest to tell them you can walk into a police station & make a statement. Or were YOU the axe wielder...?
Just watching episode 3. Nobody ever has "parked outside the front" ofThe Golden Lion, it's a main road. The only place you can park a car near The Golden Lion is behind the pub, or, in Trewsbury Road. Just saying........
I didn't watch it, but know that the Morgan case is a fascinating mystery.
Another intriguing major crime of that era, with strong links to south-east London, was the Brink's-Mat robbery at Heathrow in 1983. A gang commanded by a bloke who lived in a council flat in Ilderton Road - next to the Millwall ground - netted £26 million in gold bars, a UK record at the time.
Some, but by no means all, of the gold was recovered; several of those involved were convicted. Yet apparent infighting over the spoils has led to many of the gang being murdered, including John 'Goldfinger' Palmer, who was instrumental in melting down the gold and was shot dead in an unsolved murder in 2015. Altogether a fascinating case; several racy books have been written about it.
The Brinks-Mat team plotted the robbery at the cafe where my Scottish nan worked! A little place down near Hither Green station on the Catford side.
The Met detectives interviewed my Nan, a native of Ayrshire, and did not glean any useful information....probably because they could not understand a single word she was saying!
Good stuff, Ormiston. My mother lived in a house in Royal Hill, Greenwich, that was previously owned by a dodgy lawyer who helped launder the winnings from Brink's-Mat; I believe he did porridge.
I remember walking past, seeing a snooker table in the basement room, and thinking this was ostentatious for the area. A few clues survived: gold taps in the bathroom; weirdly, a bolt on the outside of the door. I encouraged my old Ma to dig up the paved back garden for hidden treasure...
I knew a PC who was based at Catford, was a nasty horrible piece of work. Was a qualified firearms officer. He would go into Twilights night club on the pull, (he was married with 2 kids, and knock his Mrs about) with his Smith and Wesson to impress any bird he could get hold of.
Ended up on Doors Pillars and Gates (DPG) protecting diplomats.
Good stuff, Ormiston. My mother lived in a house in Royal Hill, Greenwich, that was previously owned by a dodgy lawyer who helped launder the winnings from Brink's-Mat; I believe he did porridge.
I remember walking past, seeing a snooker table in the basement room, and thinking this was ostentatious for the area. A few clues survived: gold taps in the bathroom; weirdly, a bolt on the outside of the door. I encouraged my old Ma to dig up the paved back garden for hidden treasure...
brink’s mat is fascinating given it’s legacy of subsequent events (even to now) and alleged links to things like the Hatton Garden Job.
there are a few interesting details - and given it took 6 days for the police to notice that Goldfinger was shot 6 times in his murder, you are left to wonder if Daniel Morgan era police corruption is still existent. Some interesting names flagged here -
I knew a PC who was based at Catford, was a nasty horrible piece of work. Was a qualified firearms officer. He would go into Twilights night club on the pull, (he was married with 2 kids, and knock his Mrs about) with his Smith and Wesson to impress any bird he could get hold of.
Ended up on Doors Pillars and Gates (DPG) protecting diplomats.
That must have been some time ago. The Met Police revolvers used to be Rugers but have been obsolete for several years. They currently use Glock 17s unless they are specialist firearms officers who use Glock 19s.
No way would a PC be allowed to carry a weapon whilst off duty, it would be safely locked up in the arms store.
I knew a PC who was based at Catford, was a nasty horrible piece of work. Was a qualified firearms officer. He would go into Twilights night club on the pull, (he was married with 2 kids, and knock his Mrs about) with his Smith and Wesson to impress any bird he could get hold of.
Ended up on Doors Pillars and Gates (DPG) protecting diplomats.
That must have been some time ago. The Met Police revolvers used to be Rugers but have been obsolete for several years. They currently use Glock 17s unless they are specialist firearms officers who use Glock 19s.
No way would a PC be allowed to carry a weapon whilst off duty, it would be safely locked up in the arms store.
This was back in the 70s he lived just off Anerely Hill, in the Police flats. And yes he did carry off duty.
Just watching episode 3. Nobody ever has "parked outside the front" ofThe Golden Lion, it's a main road. The only place you can park a car near The Golden Lion is behind the pub, or, in Trewsbury Road. Just saying........
Back in 87 you were able to park out front ,despitet main road.
Good stuff, Ormiston. My mother lived in a house in Royal Hill, Greenwich, that was previously owned by a dodgy lawyer who helped launder the winnings from Brink's-Mat; I believe he did porridge.
I remember walking past, seeing a snooker table in the basement room, and thinking this was ostentatious for the area. A few clues survived: gold taps in the bathroom; weirdly, a bolt on the outside of the door. I encouraged my old Ma to dig up the paved back garden for hidden treasure...
brink’s mat is fascinating given it’s legacy of subsequent events (even to now) and alleged links to things like the Hatton Garden Job.
there are a few interesting details - and given it took 6 days for the police to notice that Goldfinger was shot 6 times in his murder, you are left to wonder if Daniel Morgan era police corruption is still existent. Some interesting names flagged here -
Yes indeed - Brian Reader, convicted of Hatton Garden heist, had been an accomplice to Kenneth Noye in moving the gold on from the Brink's-Mat job.
Incidentally, it's said that some of the ingots from the haul, after melting down and being reformed, were sold back to Brink's Mat. How's that for chutzpah!
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Appreciated
After our match at Selhurst I got the 75 bus to the lion to meet my Dad who lived 300 yards from the pub.
Must have got there quite late, I think we had extra time that game.
To be honest it just seemed another evening in my old local. Had a couple of pints, stayed at my parents that night, went home to Deptford next morning.
2 days later the police were knocking on all the doors asking if anyone had seen or heard anything. My Dad answered and invited the policeman in. He told the policeman that I had been in the pub that night, and gave him address, phone number, etc. The policeman who was there with Dad had a few glasses of whiskey and after around 3 hours the doorbell went again and saw a van full of police outside waiting for their guv'nor.
They finished off the bottle and the policeman left.
Dad phoned me to tell me that the police would contact me "soon" to see if I saw anything (I hadn't) that night.
33 years later the police still haven't contacted me regarding that evening, in my opinion, the police were not interested in the case. This is also the popular opinion of many of the people I know in Sydenham.
The police had to be seen doing their work.
Whoever committed the murder that little group are a bunch of scum bags.
Whole thing stinks to high heaven and just about everyone bar the family and a few of the later coppers come out of it badly.
Got covid and spent 17 days in hospital back in March/April....with all the complications that arose from it, I guess you can say I was pretty lucky to have pulled through.🤒😷🤕💉
Living in a Residential (over 55) home I've been pretty much locked in for the last 3 months, advised to only go out once a week for medication and shopping. Thank God everything at The Valley is running smoothly, wouldn't need any more stress. 😉
Take care of yourself, will have to meet up when all this is over.
Golden Lion ?
Haven't seen us live since the M'boro home match on Sky with the beachballs, etc.
London is still riddled with villains of all sorts .. drug dealing is rife and out of control as well as very profitable .. AND of course, where there is BIG illegal cash, there will be murders and corruption .. I enjoyed the 3 parter
You have to think that the business partner and nonce have significant dirt on each other, probably relating to this, but also other topics. Regardless of this case, you can judge their characters based on their implication in the drug planting on an innocent woman in an attempt to stop her having access to her kids, let alone some of the News of the World stuff. Disgusting human beings
Just a quick point.
The fact that I was in The Golden Lion that night and 33 years later, nobody has ever contacted me about that, actually frightens me.
I'm not, and never will be ACAB, but its still concerns me.
Nobody ever has "parked outside the front" ofThe Golden Lion, it's a main road.
The only place you can park a car near The Golden Lion is behind the pub, or, in Trewsbury Road.
Just saying........
The Met detectives interviewed my Nan, a native of Ayrshire, and did not glean any useful information....probably because they could not understand a single word she was saying!
I remember walking past, seeing a snooker table in the basement room, and thinking this was ostentatious for the area. A few clues survived: gold taps in the bathroom; weirdly, a bolt on the outside of the door. I encouraged my old Ma to dig up the paved back garden for hidden treasure...
Ended up on Doors Pillars and Gates (DPG) protecting diplomats.
there are a few interesting details - and given it took 6 days for the police to notice that Goldfinger was shot 6 times in his murder, you are left to wonder if Daniel Morgan era police corruption is still existent. Some interesting names flagged here -
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/curse-of-brinks-mat-death-of-john-goldfinger-palmer-the-latest-killing-related-to-1983-heist-10365383.html
No way would a PC be allowed to carry a weapon whilst off duty, it would be safely locked up in the arms store.