Temperature really affects consumption, and therefore range.
My commute is 21 miles and on the way in before the temperature of the day has risen I'm getting about 2.5 miles/kw. Going home when generally the temperature is higher (and the traffic lighter so I become a little heavy right-footed), I'm getting 3.0 miles/kw. it's a 93kwh battery with in reality about 88kwh available - so the theoretical range is varying from 220-264!
Last February I was coming back from Portsmouth and a lorry had overturned on the A3 just before the M25 junction. We sat there for around 2.5 hours and despite only being a mile from the junction it took around another 40 minutes once it did start moving.
I did wonder what would happen if I'd have had an electric car, either switch everything off and freeze (it was late and I think only just above freezing) or run out of juice.
The same thing can happen with an IC of course!
I ran out of petrol once (when I was very young and could only afford a few gallons at at time!) but I've never done it again. I never leave it to get below a quarter full on my petrol cars and with the EV never less than 25% before charging - not moving and having the air con set low and on economy mode wouldn't drain the battery that much, and even if you run out the breakdown services now include the ability to add an emergency charge that will get you to the nearest charge point.
As usage of electric cars increases will the infrastructure keep up? Not much has been done in London and I wonder who is coordinating this?
I also think a lot of the elderly and poorer drivers will be forced off the road during this but this remains to be seen.
The actual electricity is far from the only problem. To meet the Government's target of switching to all-electric vehicles, the UK will need 50,000-60,000 mt/year of lithium carbonate. The whole world only produces 320,000 mt/year. The UK has the ability to produce lithium but hasn't done so since 1914. And there is no way the UK is going to get 20% of the World's total supply.
Most of the World's lithium reserves are in an area of South America that has desert conditions. And it takes half a billion gallons of water to produce 1 tonne of lithium....
Then there's cobalt. There's masses of cobalt. But almost all of it is in the Democratic Republic of Congo and across Central Africa. Most metals are non-toxic when dug from the ground. Cobalt is described as being “uniquely terrible”. Yet it is being mined by children -some as young as four -using no protective clothing whatsoever.
The concept of EVs being the green solution is frankly laughable.
So, unless alternative battery technology comes to our aid. The Government's target ain't gonna happen. By a long, long, way.
As for targets, well I refer, as I have done previously on this site to Goodhart's Law, which is a fine concept and applies to almost everything, not just economic doctrine. Broadly, any observed statistical regularity will tend to collapse once pressure is placed upon it for control purposes.
I like to find reasons to be an optimist and what I hope will happen is that a mixture of sustainable sources of energy will eventually entirely replace use of fossil fuels. Much depends on how green is the electricity network whether EVs are really green.
The challenges of recycling lithium batteries, instead of relying on extraction of the metals, will hopefully be solved by automation. Currently it's a highly dangerous and expensive process.
Even with their less than perfect green credentials, the data from the scientists suggest the impact on the environment in production and in use of EVs is significantly lower than that involved in extracting, purifying, transporting and burning fossil fuel except for Poland or India for reasons to do with availability of easily extracted coal which I don't really understand.
If this happens here I can see problems with roads being dug up, pot holes appearing as the result of crap repairs and cyclists being fried or steamed I pot holes in electrified roads 😃
If this happens here I can see problems with roads being dug up, pot holes appearing as the result of crap repairs and cyclists being fried or steamed I pot holes in electrified roads 😃
That would be a successful by-product.
Yes it would. Today I was wheeling my 9 month old Grandson across a traffic light controlled crossing and a woman on a bike fitted with two chairs to carry small children carried on . I had to get out of the way and a woman behind, also pushing another push chair had to stop. I would have gladly electrocuted her. Instead I bowled at her that the highway code applies to cyclists. When I was 10 I had to do a cycling proficiency course and pass it in order to cycle to school. Now the loonies on bikes just bully their way through. Rant over.
Laws don't apply to cyclists or electric scooters - we just have to rely on their common sense.
Pedestrians will just need to learn to be more alert to oncoming cyclists and electric scooters on the pavement. There might be an argument for banning pedestrians.
The politicians are taking this all as seriously as I expected and the green lobby are blind to problems.
If this happens here I can see problems with roads being dug up, pot holes appearing as the result of crap repairs and cyclists being fried or steamed I pot holes in electrified roads 😃
That would be a successful by-product.
Yes it would. Today I was wheeling my 9 month old Grandson across a traffic light controlled crossing and a woman on a bike fitted with two chairs to carry small children carried on . I had to get out of the way and a woman behind, also pushing another push chair had to stop. I would have gladly electrocuted her. Instead I bowled at her that the highway code applies to cyclists. When I was 10 I had to do a cycling proficiency course and pass it in order to cycle to school. Now the loonies on bikes just bully their way through. Rant over.
Laws don't apply to cyclists or electric scooters - we just have to rely on their common sense.
Pedestrians will just need to learn to be more alert to oncoming cyclists and electric scooters on the pavement. There might be an argument for banning pedestrians.
The politicians are taking this all as seriously as I expected and the green lobby are blind to problems.
I agree.
Our roads are not designed to be cycle friendly and the infrastructure costs to provide ubiquitous cycle lanes makes it prohibitive. The highway code says you have to give enough room to pass a bicycle as if it were a car - most of our roads are single carriageways and that means you should be on the other side of the ride as you pass - that's impossible with the level of traffic we have.
If this happens here I can see problems with roads being dug up, pot holes appearing as the result of crap repairs and cyclists being fried or steamed I pot holes in electrified roads 😃
That would be a successful by-product.
Yes it would. Today I was wheeling my 9 month old Grandson across a traffic light controlled crossing and a woman on a bike fitted with two chairs to carry small children carried on . I had to get out of the way and a woman behind, also pushing another push chair had to stop. I would have gladly electrocuted her. Instead I bowled at her that the highway code applies to cyclists. When I was 10 I had to do a cycling proficiency course and pass it in order to cycle to school. Now the loonies on bikes just bully their way through. Rant over.
Laws don't apply to cyclists or electric scooters - we just have to rely on their common sense.
Pedestrians will just need to learn to be more alert to oncoming cyclists and electric scooters on the pavement. There might be an argument for banning pedestrians.
The politicians are taking this all as seriously as I expected and the green lobby are blind to problems.
I agree.
Our roads are not designed to be cycle friendly and the infrastructure costs to provide ubiquitous cycle lanes makes it prohibitive. The highway code says you have to give enough room to pass a bicycle as if it were a car - most of our roads are single carriageways and that means you should be on the other side of the ride as you pass - that's impossible with the level of traffic we have.
There might be an argument for banning cars!
I would just like the laws to be applied to cyclists and scooter users. I don't understand why politicians have turned a blind eye.
If this happens here I can see problems with roads being dug up, pot holes appearing as the result of crap repairs and cyclists being fried or steamed I pot holes in electrified roads 😃
That would be a successful by-product.
Yes it would. Today I was wheeling my 9 month old Grandson across a traffic light controlled crossing and a woman on a bike fitted with two chairs to carry small children carried on . I had to get out of the way and a woman behind, also pushing another push chair had to stop. I would have gladly electrocuted her. Instead I bowled at her that the highway code applies to cyclists. When I was 10 I had to do a cycling proficiency course and pass it in order to cycle to school. Now the loonies on bikes just bully their way through. Rant over.
Laws don't apply to cyclists or electric scooters - we just have to rely on their common sense.
Pedestrians will just need to learn to be more alert to oncoming cyclists and electric scooters on the pavement. There might be an argument for banning pedestrians.
The politicians are taking this all as seriously as I expected and the green lobby are blind to problems.
I agree.
Our roads are not designed to be cycle friendly and the infrastructure costs to provide ubiquitous cycle lanes makes it prohibitive. The highway code says you have to give enough room to pass a bicycle as if it were a car - most of our roads are single carriageways and that means you should be on the other side of the ride as you pass - that's impossible with the level of traffic we have.
There might be an argument for banning cars!
I would just like the laws to be applied to cyclists and scooter users. I don't understand why politicians have turned a blind eye.
There is no reason why both cyclists and electric scooter users should not be made to have at least third party insurance. The streets and roads are already crowded and sadly the interaction between pedestrians and those two groups is increasing. Relying on common sense is I’m afraid as much use as a one legged striker.
How many cycling v pedestrian deaths are there a year? And how many car v pedestrian deaths are there a day?
Completely irrelevant. Any accident has consequences. I doubt any of those pedestrians that have been clattered by a cyclist care much about the statistics.
If this happens here I can see problems with roads being dug up, pot holes appearing as the result of crap repairs and cyclists being fried or steamed I pot holes in electrified roads 😃
"Cyclists being fired " up side to everything I suppose lol
How many cycling v pedestrian deaths are there a year? And how many car v pedestrian deaths are there a day?
Completely irrelevant. Any accident has consequences. I doubt any of those pedestrians that have been clattered by a cyclist care much about the statistics.
It’s not, it’s a tiny risk compared to being in an accident with a car, and when do you need insurance for a bike? 6 or 7 years old on the way to school?
How many cycling v pedestrian deaths are there a year? And how many car v pedestrian deaths are there a day?
Completely irrelevant. Any accident has consequences. I doubt any of those pedestrians that have been clattered by a cyclist care much about the statistics.
It’s not, it’s a tiny risk compared to being in an accident with a car, and when do you need insurance for a bike? 6 or 7 years old on the way to school?
It’s a tiny risk that your house will catch fire but you wouldn’t consider not having insurance. Cyclists should 100% have third party insurance.
How many cycling v pedestrian deaths are there a year? And how many car v pedestrian deaths are there a day?
Completely irrelevant. Any accident has consequences. I doubt any of those pedestrians that have been clattered by a cyclist care much about the statistics.
It’s not, it’s a tiny risk compared to being in an accident with a car, and when do you need insurance for a bike? 6 or 7 years old on the way to school?
Yup, if a parent buys a kid a bike, they buy insurance too. Simple enough.
There are next to no cycles where I live apart from latex warriors clogging up narrow A roads so little chance of getting hit as a pedestrian by a cyclists but the concept still applies, everybody with a vehicle/contraption on the street should have insurance.
Not really the thread for it but as usual in all these car/cyclist discussions everyone thinks everyone else is the problem.
I drive on the roads in my own car and in an ambulance as well as cycle in them. There are a lot of road users of all flavours who are: impatient, incompetent, aggressive etc etc etc. Some more than others but I can 100% guarantee everyone commenting has been one or all of those things at some point. The key in my view is people realising they make mistakes and learning from them as well as being a little more patient/understanding of every other road user. Not only will it reduce accidents it will reduce your blood pressure.
How many cycling v pedestrian deaths are there a year? And how many car v pedestrian deaths are there a day?
Completely irrelevant. Any accident has consequences. I doubt any of those pedestrians that have been clattered by a cyclist care much about the statistics.
It’s not, it’s a tiny risk compared to being in an accident with a car, and when do you need insurance for a bike? 6 or 7 years old on the way to school?
It’s a tiny risk that your house will catch fire but you wouldn’t consider not having insurance. Cyclists should 100% have third party insurance.
How many cycling v pedestrian deaths are there a year? And how many car v pedestrian deaths are there a day?
Completely irrelevant. Any accident has consequences. I doubt any of those pedestrians that have been clattered by a cyclist care much about the statistics.
It’s not, it’s a tiny risk compared to being in an accident with a car, and when do you need insurance for a bike? 6 or 7 years old on the way to school?
It’s a tiny risk that your house will catch fire but you wouldn’t consider not having insurance. Cyclists should 100% have third party insurance.
At what age?
I think from when the rider attains the age of 16. Prior to that it’s the parents responsibility to either have insurance or accept the potential financial consequences of their child having an accident and injuring someone or damaging property.
There is an organisation called Cycling U.K. It’s basically a cyclist centric organisation to encourage more cyclists and to further the cause and needs of the cycling community. If you join them one of the benefits is £10 million of third party insurance. What’s not to like about that. It seems to me that a reluctance by cyclists to act like responsible people is not only selfish but highly stupid. The consequence of badly injuring someone could be life changing for both parties. One in terms of health and the other financial. It’s what insurance is for.
No idea why cyclists and scooter riders shouldn't have insurance or have to obey the law. It won't cost much and it protects everyone but no doubt they'll refuse.
Cool, good to know that some only want those who can afford it, and especially their children to access a free and environmentally friendly means of transport
Cool, good to know that some only want those who can afford it, and especially their children to access a free and environmentally friendly means of transport
Environmentally friendly and potentially dangerous to other people are two completely separate aspects of cycling.
Cool, good to know that some only want those who can afford it, and especially their children to access a free and environmentally friendly means of transport
If you cannot afford £75 per year for family membership (including third party insurance) of the aforementioned cycle club, you probably can't afford to put your kids into the right safety gear or onto appropriate training courses. In fact you probably can't afford to have had the kids in the first place. Third party insurance should be compulsory for all road users, motorised vehicles, cycles and horse riders (and probably pedestrians).
Cool, good to know that some only want those who can afford it, and especially their children to access a free and environmentally friendly means of transport
You're not up for a sensible argument on this so you'll just resort to twisting things- hardly a great surprise.
What would you suggest happens when electric scooters hit people on the pavement and injure them? That presumably is okay with you as it's environmentally friendly.
Cool, good to know that some only want those who can afford it, and especially their children to access a free and environmentally friendly means of transport
You're not up for a sensible argument on this so you'll just resort to twisting things- hardly a great surprise.
What would you suggest happens when electric scooters hit people on the pavement and injure them? That presumably is okay with you as it's environmentally friendly.
Bugger me, I would never have thought there would be a day that I agreed with HIUTB and SH on the same subject.
Perhaps we three can now solve the Israeli /Palestine conflict?
Anyone on here that owns an electric car charge from home?
Does your car make a loud noise from the fans cooling the battery while charging. I hear its normal to keep the battery at the right temperature but fck me its loud.
Had a home charger fitted tuesday. Got home last night about midnight and whacked the charger in. Obviously want to make use of the cheaper rates in the middle of the night but the noise the fans make it wont be long until the neighbours are coming round with their pitchforks 😬
I unplugged it immediately and restarted it at 7 this morning. Look forward to a street full of ev fans going mental at 3 in the morning.
Anyone on here that owns an electric car charge from home?
Does your car make a loud noise from the fans cooling the battery while charging. I hear its normal to keep the battery at the right temperature but fck me its loud.
Had a home charger fitted tuesday. Got home last night about midnight and whacked the charger in. Obviously want to make use of the cheaper rates in the middle of the night but the noise the fans make it wont be long until the neighbours are coming round with their pitchforks 😬
I unplugged it immediately and restarted it at 7 this morning. Look forward to a street full of ev fans going mental at 3 in the morning.
Don’t worry, in a few years the noise of your heat pump will drown out the car…
Anyone on here that owns an electric car charge from home?
Does your car make a loud noise from the fans cooling the battery while charging. I hear its normal to keep the battery at the right temperature but fck me its loud.
Had a home charger fitted tuesday. Got home last night about midnight and whacked the charger in. Obviously want to make use of the cheaper rates in the middle of the night but the noise the fans make it wont be long until the neighbours are coming round with their pitchforks 😬
I unplugged it immediately and restarted it at 7 this morning. Look forward to a street full of ev fans going mental at 3 in the morning.
I can’t say I have noticed any excess noise when charging it. Even when doing the vehicle/battery pre-conditioning before using it doesn’t seem particularly noisy.
Any chance it just seemed noisier late at night with little background noise
Anyone on here that owns an electric car charge from home?
Does your car make a loud noise from the fans cooling the battery while charging. I hear its normal to keep the battery at the right temperature but fck me its loud.
Had a home charger fitted tuesday. Got home last night about midnight and whacked the charger in. Obviously want to make use of the cheaper rates in the middle of the night but the noise the fans make it wont be long until the neighbours are coming round with their pitchforks 😬
I unplugged it immediately and restarted it at 7 this morning. Look forward to a street full of ev fans going mental at 3 in the morning.
I can’t say I have noticed any excess noise when charging it. Even when doing the vehicle/battery pre-conditioning before using it doesn’t seem particularly noisy.
Any chance it just seemed noisier late at night with little background noise
Snap.
A couple of minutes of preconditioning (barely audible) and then silence.
Anyone on here that owns an electric car charge from home?
Does your car make a loud noise from the fans cooling the battery while charging. I hear its normal to keep the battery at the right temperature but fck me its loud.
Had a home charger fitted tuesday. Got home last night about midnight and whacked the charger in. Obviously want to make use of the cheaper rates in the middle of the night but the noise the fans make it wont be long until the neighbours are coming round with their pitchforks 😬
I unplugged it immediately and restarted it at 7 this morning. Look forward to a street full of ev fans going mental at 3 in the morning.
I can’t say I have noticed any excess noise when charging it. Even when doing the vehicle/battery pre-conditioning before using it doesn’t seem particularly noisy.
Any chance it just seemed noisier late at night with little background noise
Could be because of the time of day and little noise elsewhere.
I also had just used it and charged instantly so the battery would have been warm. I've read up on it and it's quite normal for the fans to keep the battery at the correct temp when charging to stop it overheating.
When I reset it to charge between 7 to 10 this morning I havent heard it at all. Pretty sure that's because I've given the vehicle time to cool down before charging. Apparently the fans come on in the summer more than in the winter too due to the vehicle being warmer.
Comments
My commute is 21 miles and on the way in before the temperature of the day has risen I'm getting about 2.5 miles/kw. Going home when generally the temperature is higher (and the traffic lighter so I become a little heavy right-footed), I'm getting 3.0 miles/kw. it's a 93kwh battery with in reality about 88kwh available - so the theoretical range is varying from 220-264!
The challenges of recycling lithium batteries, instead of relying on extraction of the metals, will hopefully be solved by automation. Currently it's a highly dangerous and expensive process.
Even with their less than perfect green credentials, the data from the scientists suggest the impact on the environment in production and in use of EVs is significantly lower than that involved in extracting, purifying, transporting and burning fossil fuel except for Poland or India for reasons to do with availability of easily extracted coal which I don't really understand.
Pedestrians will just need to learn to be more alert to oncoming cyclists and electric scooters on the pavement. There might be an argument for banning pedestrians.
The politicians are taking this all as seriously as I expected and the green lobby are blind to problems.
About 1% of pedestrian related accidents
There are next to no cycles where I live apart from latex warriors clogging up narrow A roads so little chance of getting hit as a pedestrian by a cyclists but the concept still applies, everybody with a vehicle/contraption on the street should have insurance.
https://www.cyclinguk.org/insurance
Third party insurance should be compulsory for all road users, motorised vehicles, cycles and horse riders (and probably pedestrians).
What would you suggest happens when electric scooters hit people on the pavement and injure them? That presumably is okay with you as it's
environmentally friendly.
Perhaps we three can now solve the Israeli /Palestine conflict?
Does your car make a loud noise from the fans cooling the battery while charging. I hear its normal to keep the battery at the right temperature but fck me its loud.
Had a home charger fitted tuesday. Got home last night about midnight and whacked the charger in. Obviously want to make use of the cheaper rates in the middle of the night but the noise the fans make it wont be long until the neighbours are coming round with their pitchforks 😬
I unplugged it immediately and restarted it at 7 this morning. Look forward to a street full of ev fans going mental at 3 in the morning.
Any chance it just seemed noisier late at night with little background noise
not sure what yours is doing but doesn’t sound right to me.
A couple of minutes of preconditioning (barely audible) and then silence.
I also had just used it and charged instantly so the battery would have been warm. I've read up on it and it's quite normal for the fans to keep the battery at the correct temp when charging to stop it overheating.
When I reset it to charge between 7 to 10 this morning I havent heard it at all. Pretty sure that's because I've given the vehicle time to cool down before charging. Apparently the fans come on in the summer more than in the winter too due to the vehicle being warmer.