Can someone fill in a gap in my understanding? Is CAST a "part of" CARD? Or are there merely CAST members who support CARD and its goals?
If CARD is "officially" a part of CARD, then I would agree with @AFKABartram that it's difficult to see how the club should be expected to welcome official meetings with CAST. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still take place.
I can confirm CARD is officially part of CARD, not sure why you don’t get that really @chizz
Because he is a sealion :-)
out of interest, what does sealioning mean? Never heard that one before
"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretence of civility. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".
But what evidence do you have of his sea-lioning kind sir?
Can someone fill in a gap in my understanding? Is CAST a "part of" CARD? Or are there merely CAST members who support CARD and its goals?
If CARD is "officially" a part of CARD, then I would agree with @AFKABartram that it's difficult to see how the club should be expected to welcome official meetings with CAST. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still take place.
I can confirm CARD is officially part of CARD, not sure why you don’t get that really @chizz
Because he is a sealion :-)
out of interest, what does sealioning mean? Never heard that one before
Seeing how long you can balance a beach ball on your nose for
Not sure why everyone is getting so wound up by this.
No minutes/comments are posted - people moan. Minutes/comments are posted - people moan saying it's the same old shit, LDT is a liar, it's a waste of time, etc.
I assume that if something earth shattering about the takeover had emerged during the meeting, it would have been revealed straight afterwards by someone, even if they didn't give all the details - "positive news on the takeover" "a new buyer is interested" "Roland was over this week talking to the potential buyers" etc. In the absence of such comments, I assume there wasn't anything earth shattering...
Whereas all the other stuff, e.g. the points system for buying away tickets, can wait until the minutes are finalised anyway
Can someone fill in a gap in my understanding? Is CAST a "part of" CARD? Or are there merely CAST members who support CARD and its goals?
If CARD is "officially" a part of CARD, then I would agree with @AFKABartram that it's difficult to see how the club should be expected to welcome official meetings with CAST. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still take place.
I can confirm CARD is officially part of CARD, not sure why you don’t get that really @chizz
out of interest, what does sealioning mean? Never heard that one before
Its when you clap your hands while balancing a ball on your nose
Can someone fill in a gap in my understanding? Is CAST a "part of" CARD? Or are there merely CAST members who support CARD and its goals?
If CARD is "officially" a part of CARD, then I would agree with @AFKABartram that it's difficult to see how the club should be expected to welcome official meetings with CAST. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still take place.
I can confirm CARD is officially part of CARD, not sure why you don’t get that really @chizz
Because he is a sealion :-)
out of interest, what does sealioning mean? Never heard that one before
"Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions, while maintaining a pretence of civility. It may take the form of "incessant, bad-faith invitations to engage in debate".
But what evidence do you have of his sea-lioning kind sir?
I think you have grasped the concept very quickly : - )
I'm not waiting on tenterhooks as I am not expecting anything of any great interest. It is just the principle. You have to have a means of reporting back to fans - whether that is a short headline summary with detail to follow or minutes published within a reasonable time frame. I don't want to get overly critical, I haven't got an axe to grind, but if you are not going to do either, don't post anything other than give an idea when the minutes will arrive.
Personally, I know people are busy, but if you sign up to a fans forum, and are representing a fans group, you out to find the time to report back. If you can't let somebody go that can.
CARD is the "Coalition Against Roland Duchatelet". CAST has an explicit position of wishing RD to sell and it makes sense for us therefore to be a part of the coalition.
That doesn't mean CAST supports every single action taken by CARD but it does mean we engage in debate, have a voice in the discussions and a say in / influence over any proposed activity. We think that is preferable to being on the outside / in the dark and criticising for the sake of it without full understanding.
In the meantime we have maintained civil and sometimes constructive relationships with club staff, especially where this is of direct benefit for fans / our members eg recent ticketing survey and Lee Bowyer interview.
We continue to attend the Fans' Forum for all its faults as currently it is all we have in the way of dialogue with the club.
Just to add, anyone who thinks CARD in general isn’t on amicable terms with club staff at all levels hasn’t been paying attention. Indeed, I’d suggest CARD has a closer and better relationship with staff than Lieven De Turck, Roland Duchatelet or Richard Murray, for a start.
As for why CAST should have a privileged relationship with the club, quite simply because it is a properly constituted legal entity with formal recognition at a national level and a significant membership and which any Charlton fan can join. Unlike, for example, “Swedish Addicks”, which is nothing against fans who are actual Swedes.
Just to add, anyone who thinks CARD in general isn’t on amicable terms with club staff at all levels hasn’t been paying attention. Indeed, I’d suggest CARD has a closer and better relationship with staff than Lieven De Turck, Roland Duchatelet or Richard Murray, for a start.
As for why CAST should have a privileged relationship with the club, quite simply because it is a properly constituted legal entity with formal recognition at a national level and a significant membership and which any Charlton fan can join. Unlike, for example, “Swedish Addicks”, which is nothing against fans who are actual Swedes.
Valid point but it would be a "privileged relationship" none the less.
Just to add, anyone who thinks CARD in general isn’t on amicable terms with club staff at all levels hasn’t been paying attention. Indeed, I’d suggest CARD has a closer and better relationship with staff than Lieven De Turck, Roland Duchatelet or Richard Murray, for a start.
As for why CAST should have a privileged relationship with the club, quite simply because it is a properly constituted legal entity with formal recognition at a national level and a significant membership and which any Charlton fan can join. Unlike, for example, “Swedish Addicks”, which is nothing against fans who are actual Swedes.
Valid point but it would be a "privileged relationship" none the less.
What’s the alternative? No hierarchy? Any made-up group to be given equivalent status?
Inevitably some groups will or should have more clout than others, because they have more credibility by virtue of their size and structure. The club has no idea who some of the people at the forum currently represent, neither does it care, because it is a box-ticking exercise for them.
It's a shame that wasn't written after the meeting. Rather than the unhelpful: "Nothing to see here, as you were, ‘potholes still in attendance’ .. minutes in a few weeks"
I have gone on this thread to read what happened at the fans forum, and all I read is people complaining that there is nothing to read, if the only thing on this thread was the minutes, it would save a lot of time reading comments that I am not interested in. Yes I know, now others like me have another boring comment to read
Just to add, anyone who thinks CARD in general isn’t on amicable terms with club staff at all levels hasn’t been paying attention. Indeed, I’d suggest CARD has a closer and better relationship with staff than Lieven De Turck, Roland Duchatelet or Richard Murray, for a start.
As for why CAST should have a privileged relationship with the club, quite simply because it is a properly constituted legal entity with formal recognition at a national level and a significant membership and which any Charlton fan can join. Unlike, for example, “Swedish Addicks”, which is nothing against fans who are actual Swedes.
Valid point but it would be a "privileged relationship" none the less.
What’s the alternative? No hierarchy? Any made-up group to be given equivalent status?
Inevitably some groups will or should have more clout than others, because they have more credibility by virtue of their size and structure. The club has no idea who some of the people at the forum currently represent, neither does it care, because it is a box-ticking exercise for them.
Neither just one group nor a free for all.
As when Peter Varney was CEO properly constituted and active groups.
Agree it is, in part, box ticketing but it provides an opportunity to catch them in their lies IE on the importance of the director loans you quoted the FF minutes.
There are also some mundane issues which are important to some fans as well as @GlassHalfFull listed.
As I said the membership badly needs reviewing. I agree with examples you give as to why.
It's a shame that wasn't written after the meeting. Rather than the unhelpful: "Nothing to see here, as you were, ‘potholes still in attendance’ .. minutes in a few weeks"
It's not hard is it?
I'll bear that in mind, ma'am. I am not a spokesman for the group - in fact I'm very new to it - but if a short report is considered of value then fine. We all know the club's admin has been cut to the bone, despite the fact we're in a much bigger league. At this moment the staff are facing three huge matches in a week. They've a lot to contend with. To report a diverse three hour meeting fully and accurately is not five minutes' work ....
Oh dear. I did not want to start a dialogue. Let's leave it there for now, please.
Can someone fill in a gap in my understanding? Is CAST a "part of" CARD? Or are there merely CAST members who support CARD and its goals?
If CARD is "officially" a part of CARD, then I would agree with @AFKABartram that it's difficult to see how the club should be expected to welcome official meetings with CAST. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't still take place.
I can confirm CARD is officially part of CARD, not sure why you don’t get that really @chizz
Because he is a sealion :-)
out of interest, what does sealioning mean? Never heard that one before
its the next step on from dogging, piking and carping
On a related topic, I see no reason why the AGENDA should not be published ahead of the meeting.
It would have the advantage that, if someone had a particular concern which was on the agenda, they could express their view to their representative, or even request to attend that meeting of the Forum in person.
It would, of course, require a modicum of forward planning, which may be the stumbling block...
On a related topic, I see no reason why the AGENDA should not be published ahead of the meeting.
It would have the advantage that, if someone had a particular concern which was on the agenda, they could express their view to their representative, or even request to attend that meeting of the Forum in person.
It would, of course, require a modicum of forward planning, which may be the stumbling block...
Some people like to get their message across by spray painting.
I always worry with this kind of thing that it ends up as a dick measuring exercise. I know more than you, I was invited to this that and the other. Really we all just want to know if the club is going to be sold any time soon.
On a related topic, I see no reason why the AGENDA should not be published ahead of the meeting.
It would have the advantage that, if someone had a particular concern which was on the agenda, they could express their view to their representative, or even request to attend that meeting of the Forum in person.
It would, of course, require a modicum of forward planning, which may be the stumbling block...
May I suggest that those who have a real issue with this put their names forward to become Charlton Life rep, we have an election, and that the winning rep reports back to its members ASAP after any meeting. Simples.
Comments
I'm a bit thick and also had to google gnomic sayings. Very good.
Seeing how long you can balance a beach ball on your nose for
Whereas all the other stuff, e.g. the points system for buying away tickets, can wait until the minutes are finalised anyway
Personally, I know people are busy, but if you sign up to a fans forum, and are representing a fans group, you out to find the time to report back. If you can't let somebody go that can.
That doesn't mean CAST supports every single action taken by CARD but it does mean we engage in debate, have a voice in the discussions and a say in / influence over any proposed activity. We think that is preferable to being on the outside / in the dark and criticising for the sake of it without full understanding.
In the meantime we have maintained civil and sometimes constructive relationships with club staff, especially where this is of direct benefit for fans / our members eg recent ticketing survey and Lee Bowyer interview.
We continue to attend the Fans' Forum for all its faults as currently it is all we have in the way of dialogue with the club.
As for why CAST should have a privileged relationship with the club, quite simply because it is a properly constituted legal entity with formal recognition at a national level and a significant membership and which any Charlton fan can join. Unlike, for example, “Swedish Addicks”, which is nothing against fans who are actual Swedes.
Inevitably some groups will or should have more clout than others, because they have more credibility by virtue of their size and structure. The club has no idea who some of the people at the forum currently represent, neither does it care, because it is a box-ticking exercise for them.
He has to put them through google translate and these are the latest minutes from Wednesday.
Fans Forum
Item one is about Thomas Driesen, and it translates as 'Driesen is wonderful, me, me , me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Driesen is wonderful, me, me , me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, Driesen is wonderful, me, me , me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, Driesen is wonderful, me, me , me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
No other items.
Meeting Closed.
Enough, already!!
I was there.
The meeting lasted 3 hours.
A lot of helpful and constructive discussion, with much genuine input.
Twenty items on the agenda.
Some general topics such as the takeover and also much useful dialogue on various specific fan issues - catering, travel, ticketing etc.
I would say a worthwhile meeting offering some useful insights.
I may well regret posting these few words, of course, but the present discussion is getting us nowhere and I say that with the greatest respect.
It's not hard is it?
As when Peter Varney was CEO properly constituted and active groups.
Agree it is, in part, box ticketing but it provides an opportunity to catch them in their lies IE on the importance of the director loans you quoted the FF minutes.
There are also some mundane issues which are important to some fans as well as @GlassHalfFull listed.
As I said the membership badly needs reviewing. I agree with examples you give as to why.
Oh dear. I did not want to start a dialogue. Let's leave it there for now, please.
its the next step on from dogging, piking and carping
It would have the advantage that, if someone had a particular concern which was on the agenda, they could express their view to their representative, or even request to attend that meeting of the Forum in person.
It would, of course, require a modicum of forward planning, which may be the stumbling block...
Roland Out!