So exactly the right thing then. Innocent until proven guilty. He’s been found guilty and rightly removed. Southgate correct in my opinion.
Dont get the ‘what if it was Sterling’ who was removed from the England squad after attacking another player in-front of everyone.
Should have been removed from the squad up front given the severity of the charges. Poor management of the situation from Southgate - not sure what he was expecting to happen.
If the court case was going to drag on for months or years it would be a different matter but waiting for the court case to be resolved would have made more sense and set a better example.
So exactly the right thing then. Innocent until proven guilty. He’s been found guilty and rightly removed. Southgate correct in my opinion.
Dont get the ‘what if it was Sterling’ who was removed from the England squad after attacking another player in-front of everyone.
Should have been removed from the squad up front given the severity of the charges. Poor management of the situation from Southgate - not sure what he was expecting to happen.
If the court case was going to drag on for months or years it would be a different matter but waiting for the court case to be resolved would have made more sense and set a better example.
What if for whatever reason though he were found Not Guilty today though?
Ever since the incident there has been the typical rush of trial by public and media with the offendant guilty until proven innocent which isnt how it works
I'm surprised how quickly the Greek authorities can bring such a case to court, this isn't like a caution from the magistrates court, it's a criminal case with (suspended) jail sentences
I'm surprised how quickly the Greek authorities can bring such a case to court, this isn't like a caution from the magistrates court, it's a criminal case with (suspended) jail sentences
Probably used to it what with the amount of tourist cases they get on the island
Not refering to the Karlan Grant incident but Ibiza is the same
So exactly the right thing then. Innocent until proven guilty. He’s been found guilty and rightly removed. Southgate correct in my opinion.
Dont get the ‘what if it was Sterling’ who was removed from the England squad after attacking another player in-front of everyone.
Should have been removed from the squad up front given the severity of the charges. Poor management of the situation from Southgate - not sure what he was expecting to happen.
If the court case was going to drag on for months or years it would be a different matter but waiting for the court case to be resolved would have made more sense and set a better example.
What if for whatever reason though he were found Not Guilty today though?
Ever since the incident there has been the typical rush of trial by public and media with the offendant guilty until proven innocent which isnt how it works
Exactly. It seems like some people are happy for action to be taken before proven wrongdoing. He’s been found guilty, action has been taken. I can’t see why it should be any different.
So exactly the right thing then. Innocent until proven guilty. He’s been found guilty and rightly removed. Southgate correct in my opinion.
Dont get the ‘what if it was Sterling’ who was removed from the England squad after attacking another player in-front of everyone.
Should have been removed from the squad up front given the severity of the charges. Poor management of the situation from Southgate - not sure what he was expecting to happen.
If the court case was going to drag on for months or years it would be a different matter but waiting for the court case to be resolved would have made more sense and set a better example.
What if for whatever reason though he were found Not Guilty today though?
Ever since the incident there has been the typical rush of trial by public and media with the offendant guilty until proven innocent which isnt how it works
Exactly. It seems like some people are happy for action to be taken before proven wrongdoing. He’s been found guilty, action has been taken. I can’t see why it should be any different.
Compare it to the cases of old; Sam Allerdyce / John Terry etc.
Southgate in dealing with Sterling / Gomez and now Harry Maguire is showing that he isnt just another idiot in charge yet is quite clever in how he handles situations that are cropping up... Imagine had he not picked Maguire only for him to be not guilty, thats an awkward conversation he's probably got to have for jumping to an incorrect conclusion
Instead I wouldnt be surprised if Gareth had told him when they met up that any Guilty verdict would result in this action
If somebody is going through a court case it doesn't make any sense to me to leave them in the squad as it will be a major distraction. This is nothing to do with whether Maguire is innocent or not but merely showing a bit of common sense.
Southgate knew the timescales involved and could simply have left Maguire out of the squad until the case was resolved.
I thought it was very poor management. Maguire should have been allowed to focus on his court case rather than worrying about missing a couple of matches.
So exactly the right thing then. Innocent until proven guilty. He’s been found guilty and rightly removed. Southgate correct in my opinion.
Dont get the ‘what if it was Sterling’ who was removed from the England squad after attacking another player in-front of everyone.
Should have been removed from the squad up front given the severity of the charges. Poor management of the situation from Southgate - not sure what he was expecting to happen.
If the court case was going to drag on for months or years it would be a different matter but waiting for the court case to be resolved would have made more sense and set a better example.
Innocent until proven Guilty. Southgate went about it the right way
If somebody is going through a court case it doesn't make any sense to me to leave them in the squad as it will be a major distraction. This is nothing to do with whether Maguire is innocent or not but merely showing a bit of common sense.
Southgate knew the timescales involved and could simply have left Maguire out of the squad until the case was resolved.
I thought it was very poor management. Maguire should have been allowed to focus on his court case rather than worrying about missing a couple of matches.
It took 2-3 days.
Talk to him, select him, but make it clear that if he’s guilty then he will be dropped. If he’s not guilty, then he stays.
Genuinely think Southgate is clueless, forget the honeymoon world cup period which we overrate anyway despite all the buzz, his selections are shocking.
No left backs, 3 right backs, picked a handful of rubbish/out of form players in Keane, Tammy, Dier, Mings, then leaves out the more inform players in Tarkowski, Dunk as centre back choices. Ridiculous he has left out Grealish, clearly he doesn't like him as a person or something, blokes undeniably talented.
Same old England manager mistakes masked by a fortunate world cup draw and a penalty shootout win
Genuinely think Southgate is clueless, forget the honeymoon world cup period which we overrate anyway despite all the buzz, his selections are shocking.
No left backs, 3 right backs, picked a handful of rubbish/out of form players in Keane, Tammy, Dier, Mings, then leaves out the more inform players in Tarkowski, Dunk as centre back choices. Ridiculous he has left out Grealish, clearly he doesn't like him as a person or something, blokes undeniably talented.
Same old England manager mistakes masked by a fortunate world cup draw and a penalty shootout win
I don't know about all that. You want a measure of consistency in your squad. One of the problems all national teams have is that the players don't have that much time to get used to playing together, so Southgate has to make a choice relatively early about who he thinks are most likely to be his players going into a tournament and work around that. Obviously players develop or hit really good periods of form, but if he just chopped and changed his centre halves based on the flavour of the week - because let's be honest, there's not a great deal to choose between Tarkowski, Dunk, Keane and Mings, they're all ok players - then you'd have a lot of players getting caps but you would lose the limited opportunities you have to get players like Mings used to being part of that squad and playing with those players.
Who would you have picked over Abraham? Kane is in there, so are Sterling and Rashford. Ings is the top English goalscorer after Jamie Vardy, who is retired. After that the next highest English goalscorer is Abraham. Then you've got Dominic Calvert-Lewin, who is good at winning headers and not a lot else, Michail Antonio who is a 30 year old sort of winger, and Mason Greenwood who is in the squad, and sits 21st in the scoring charts. Abraham is 22 and will benefit from being around the squad even if he doesn't play, which he probably won't.
Southgate left Grealish out due to the form of Mason Greenwood, and I think more because Grealish doesn't really fit the way Southgate wants to play. In the past managers have been given grief for picking teams based on the players not the system, and to be honest it's probably going to do Grealish more harm than good playing for England in a way that doesn't suit him. Southgate has included Ward-Prowse though who has had a fantastic season and ended it with the same statistical average as Jordan Henderson, so along with him, Greenwood, Dean Henderson and Phil Foden you can hardly say Southgate hasn't picked in-form players.
Different positions obviously, but it does seem bizarre that one Villa player is a regular in the England squads, and it's Mings not Grealish...
Yeah doesn't make any sense. I really don't get how Grealish didn't get in. Southgate will be found out sooner rather than later IMO.
Well appears to be doing something right when we can beat teams like Panama, win Penalty Shootouts when his predecessors couldnt manage it
Nor is he very loyal to his squad when you see how quickly the likes of Dele Alli and Jessie Lingard got dropped after the World Cup - His worst issue is the fact he's often come out saying that he picks players on form yet then goes against that for some of the more talented youngsters coming through like Foden and Greenwood
Ultimately he's never going to appease everyone with his squads and thankfully he happily accepts that
Judge him instead on his results, yes we should have reached the World Cup final based on our draw but no one expected a Semi-Final regardless... then you've got how he demolished Spain in their own back yard and got us third place in a "pointless" Nations League which seems an approach only viewed by the fans, especially when you took in the results / performances in the last round of games which were treated as anything suc
Cant forget either how we absolutely crushed the usual Qualifying Group in a style we've not seen since Sven!!
We've effectively gone from a team that couldnt break down teams that sat back against us for so long to a team that is free scoring, its just a shame that we dont have a plethora of Defenders like what other Managers have had, maybe if Southgate had the ability to use Rio Ferdinand, John Terry, Ashley Cole then we could potentially be devastating
Seems to often that Southgate gets judged on his management at club level yet like Chris Coleman is proving that an International Manager is very different, especially as England have had so many club managers of late who have flopped beyond belief!! - Just wonder when fans against him will finally sit up and give him a break rather than constantly expecting him to be found out?
Most fouled player Most distance carried with the ball
We need a central midfielder who can carry the ball and haven't had one since a young Jack Wilshire.
Pope Trent Gomez McGuire (when not in prison) Chilwell (when fit)
Rice Foden Grealish
Sterling Kane Sancho
Rashford Greenwood Mount all pushing to start
Glad Barclay has been dropped.
Not dropped. Southgate said he left him out due to injury.
I'm still baffled as to how Ward-Prowse gets in the squad
Ward-Prowse gets in because he's had an excellent season and he's a direct replacement for Jordan Henderson. The England team plays with a midfield where they have a defensive shield, normally Rice or Dier, a shuttler who ties everything together in Henderson or Winks, and a more creative 8 like Mount or Oxlade-Chamberlain who is also able to shift some donkey work when needed. Ward-Prowse plays for a team who obsessively press, he's good at recycling possession and he's ended the season in very good form conducting Southampton's midfield. Southgate has a way of playing and WP fits that perfectly while Henderson is out.
Most fouled player Most distance carried with the ball
We need a central midfielder who can carry the ball and haven't had one since a young Jack Wilshire.
Pope Trent Gomez McGuire (when not in prison) Chilwell (when fit)
Rice Foden Grealish
Sterling Kane Sancho
Rashford Greenwood Mount all pushing to start
Glad Barclay has been dropped.
Not dropped. Southgate said he left him out due to injury.
I'm still baffled as to how Ward-Prowse gets in the squad
Ward-Prowse gets in because he's had an excellent season and he's a direct replacement for Jordan Henderson. The England team plays with a midfield where they have a defensive shield, normally Rice or Dier, a shuttler who ties everything together in Henderson or Winks, and a more creative 8 like Mount or Oxlade-Chamberlain who is also able to shift some donkey work when needed. Ward-Prowse plays for a team who obsessively press, he's good at recycling possession and he's ended the season in very good form conducting Southampton's midfield. Southgate has a way of playing and WP fits that perfectly while Henderson is out.
Ward-Prowse has been a regular for Southampton for years, if he was that good surely a bigger club would've come in for him by now. You don't even see him linked with anyone. I'm not saying he's a bad player as he's obviously ok, i just don't believe he's international quality.
Absolutely no way Southgate can please everyone. Picking 25 players will always leave someone who you believe should/shouldn’t be in there. All he can do is try and win games.
We got to a WC semi final, the finals of the Euro Leagues and qualification has been almost impeccable.
He’s a young manager still learning, he’s got a very young squad still improving, I don’t know who else could be doing a better job.
The problem the national team has is that patience is virtually next to zero. Bowyer would be given ‘X’ amount of games to turn things around, or given the benefit of the doubt. Part time England fans expect everything immediately.
I think Southgate will be helped by the Euro's moving back a year.
We have a very inexperienced squad (15 of the squad have 10 caps or less) so the extra year of football will do them good, especially the likes of Foden and Greenwood who probably wouldn't have made it had the Euro's been held this summer.
If the Euros would have been this summer we'd have been embarrassed.
Feels like a mess of a squad looking at the team.
If you pick out the key players for our squad if the Euros would have been this year, how many times have they actually played together? We don't really have a set defense and the midfield gets chopped and changed every other game.
Our biggest issue with the Euros this year would have been the injuries players kept having
Weren't we going to be missing a ton of key players for the March friendlies due to injuries, then there would have been the concern about Harry Kane being fit enough
Ridiculous to suggest we would of been ‘embarrassed’
If England have a fully fit squad then the starting XI maybe apart from possibly 1 or 2 midfielders picks itself.
Maybe for you but seems like Southgate has no clue who his starting 11 is.
Look at the qualifications fixtures, there's no set CB pairing, no set right back, front 3 changing all the time. That's before looking at the formation and midfield structure.
Ridiculous to suggest we would of been ‘embarrassed’
If England have a fully fit squad then the starting XI maybe apart from possibly 1 or 2 midfielders picks itself.
Maybe for you but seems like Southgate has no clue who his starting 11 is.
Look at the qualifications fixtures, there's no set CB pairing, no set right back, front 3 changing all the time. That's before looking at the formation and midfield structure.
Even the goalkeeper he hasn't decided on.
Did Southgate even know his team ahead of the World Cup?
Southgate gets slated for not knowing simple things like this but is that a good thing that the squad keeps getting rotated
After all a settled team the last 20-years for England had done so well hadnt they?
Or do we go back to the old ways and just keep repeating them hoping it'll fall our way one day
This will be in a qualification we wrapped up after 6 games.
Rotation after qualifying and injuries towards the end of the season are par for the course. We still won our last 3 games 6-0, 7-0 and 4-0.
‘No RB’ - TAA is our first choice RB. He was rotated at the end of qualification due to playing a lot of games for Liverpool and was needed for their run in.
’No set CB pairing’ - Maguire is first choice. I’d imagine Gómez coming back from injury will ensure that is the pairing.
’Front 3 changing’ - I think apart from the natural rotation of Kane/Sterling/Sancho/Rashford, the only other player used was Hudson-Odoi.
Pickford will continue to be first choice as he plays well for England and he’s good with his feet and distribution. Pope was rightly given a go in a dead rubber against Kosovo.
The midfield problem is a well documented and discussed one. Henderson will play when fit but there’s nothing wrong with a selection headache of Winks, Rice, Maddison, Barkley, Foden....
This will be in a qualification we wrapped up after 6 games.
Rotation after qualifying and injuries towards the end of the season are par for the course. We still won our last 3 games 6-0, 7-0 and 4-0.
‘No RB’ - TAA is our first choice RB. He was rotated at the end of qualification due to playing a lot of games for Liverpool and was needed for their run in.
’No set CB pairing’ - Maguire is first choice. I’d imagine Gómez coming back from injury will ensure that is the pairing.
’Front 3 changing’ - I think apart from the natural rotation of Kane/Sterling/Sancho/Rashford, the only other player used was Hudson-Odoi.
Pickford will continue to be first choice as he plays well for England and he’s good with his feet and distribution. Pope was rightly given a go in a dead rubber against Kosovo.
No doubt had Southgate kept to the same team for the rest of Qualification the complaints would have been:
"Why does he keep using the same team, whats he going to learn unless others get given the opportunity"
As thats exactly what the likes of Sven and Capello had to put up with themselves - As you said earlier: Who'd want to be England Manager!!
Most fouled player Most distance carried with the ball
We need a central midfielder who can carry the ball and haven't had one since a young Jack Wilshire.
Pope Trent Gomez McGuire (when not in prison) Chilwell (when fit)
Rice Foden Grealish
Sterling Kane Sancho
Rashford Greenwood Mount all pushing to start
Glad Barclay has been dropped.
Not dropped. Southgate said he left him out due to injury.
I'm still baffled as to how Ward-Prowse gets in the squad
Ward-Prowse gets in because he's had an excellent season and he's a direct replacement for Jordan Henderson. The England team plays with a midfield where they have a defensive shield, normally Rice or Dier, a shuttler who ties everything together in Henderson or Winks, and a more creative 8 like Mount or Oxlade-Chamberlain who is also able to shift some donkey work when needed. Ward-Prowse plays for a team who obsessively press, he's good at recycling possession and he's ended the season in very good form conducting Southampton's midfield. Southgate has a way of playing and WP fits that perfectly while Henderson is out.
Ward-Prowse has been a regular for Southampton for years, if he was that good surely a bigger club would've come in for him by now. You don't even see him linked with anyone. I'm not saying he's a bad player as he's obviously ok, i just don't believe he's international quality.
This has very much been his breakthrough season for Saints. Previously he's always been in and around the squad but he's been very inconsistent and has made a lot of appearances as a sub. Last season for instance he played 26 PL games, 21 of which he started. The season before that he made 30 appearances, 20 of them starts. This season he didn't miss a minute of PL football. 38 appearances, all for 90 mins, and after the lockdown he was captain for all those appearances. He almost doubled his on-pitch minutes this season compared to last. He's not a genius by any stretch but he's worked on his game this season and has become reliable in possession, can dictate play a lot more and has fantastic crossing and set piece delivery. I would have thought this season would have been the one where bigger teams might sniff around, but Saints just tied him down with a 5 year contract about a week ago so that's out the window.
When it comes to international quality, it's less about how brilliant you are and more about whether you're more brilliant than the people around you. In terms of filling in for Henderson there's not really another English midfielder better than WP to fill that role on current form
Comments
If the court case was going to drag on for months or years it would be a different matter but waiting for the court case to be resolved would have made more sense and set a better example.
Ever since the incident there has been the typical rush of trial by public and media with the offendant guilty until proven innocent which isnt how it works
Not refering to the Karlan Grant incident but Ibiza is the same
Southgate in dealing with Sterling / Gomez and now Harry Maguire is showing that he isnt just another idiot in charge yet is quite clever in how he handles situations that are cropping up... Imagine had he not picked Maguire only for him to be not guilty, thats an awkward conversation he's probably got to have for jumping to an incorrect conclusion
Instead I wouldnt be surprised if Gareth had told him when they met up that any Guilty verdict would result in this action
Southgate knew the timescales involved and could simply have left Maguire out of the squad until the case was resolved.
I thought it was very poor management. Maguire should have been allowed to focus on his court case rather than worrying about missing a couple of matches.
Makes perfect sense.
No left backs, 3 right backs, picked a handful of rubbish/out of form players in Keane, Tammy, Dier, Mings, then leaves out the more inform players in Tarkowski, Dunk as centre back choices. Ridiculous he has left out Grealish, clearly he doesn't like him as a person or something, blokes undeniably talented.
Same old England manager mistakes masked by a fortunate world cup draw and a penalty shootout win
I'm still baffled as to how Ward-Prowse gets in the squad
Yeah doesn't make any sense. I really don't get how Grealish didn't get in. Southgate will be found out sooner rather than later IMO.
Nor is he very loyal to his squad when you see how quickly the likes of Dele Alli and Jessie Lingard got dropped after the World Cup - His worst issue is the fact he's often come out saying that he picks players on form yet then goes against that for some of the more talented youngsters coming through like Foden and Greenwood
Ultimately he's never going to appease everyone with his squads and thankfully he happily accepts that
Judge him instead on his results, yes we should have reached the World Cup final based on our draw but no one expected a Semi-Final regardless... then you've got how he demolished Spain in their own back yard and got us third place in a "pointless" Nations League which seems an approach only viewed by the fans, especially when you took in the results / performances in the last round of games which were treated as anything suc
Cant forget either how we absolutely crushed the usual Qualifying Group in a style we've not seen since Sven!!
We've effectively gone from a team that couldnt break down teams that sat back against us for so long to a team that is free scoring, its just a shame that we dont have a plethora of Defenders like what other Managers have had, maybe if Southgate had the ability to use Rio Ferdinand, John Terry, Ashley Cole then we could potentially be devastating
Seems to often that Southgate gets judged on his management at club level yet like Chris Coleman is proving that an International Manager is very different, especially as England have had so many club managers of late who have flopped beyond belief!! - Just wonder when fans against him will finally sit up and give him a break rather than constantly expecting him to be found out?
We got to a WC semi final, the finals of the Euro Leagues and qualification has been almost impeccable.
The problem the national team has is that patience is virtually next to zero. Bowyer would be given ‘X’ amount of games to turn things around, or given the benefit of the doubt. Part time England fans expect everything immediately.
Who’d be an England manager eh.
We have a very inexperienced squad (15 of the squad have 10 caps or less) so the extra year of football will do them good, especially the likes of Foden and Greenwood who probably wouldn't have made it had the Euro's been held this summer.
Feels like a mess of a squad looking at the team.
If you pick out the key players for our squad if the Euros would have been this year, how many times have they actually played together? We don't really have a set defense and the midfield gets chopped and changed every other game.
Weren't we going to be missing a ton of key players for the March friendlies due to injuries, then there would have been the concern about Harry Kane being fit enough
Calvert-Lewin would have been an interesting pick. Only 23.
If England have a fully fit squad then the starting XI maybe apart from possibly 1 or 2 midfielders picks itself.
Look at the qualifications fixtures, there's no set CB pairing, no set right back, front 3 changing all the time. That's before looking at the formation and midfield structure.
Even the goalkeeper he hasn't decided on.
Southgate gets slated for not knowing simple things like this but is that a good thing that the squad keeps getting rotated
After all a settled team the last 20-years for England had done so well hadnt they?
Or do we go back to the old ways and just keep repeating them hoping it'll fall our way one day
Rotation after qualifying and injuries towards the end of the season are par for the course. We still won our last 3 games 6-0, 7-0 and 4-0.
’No set CB pairing’ - Maguire is first choice. I’d imagine Gómez coming back from injury will ensure that is the pairing.
’Front 3 changing’ - I think apart from the natural rotation of Kane/Sterling/Sancho/Rashford, the only other player used was Hudson-Odoi.
Pickford will continue to be first choice as he plays well for England and he’s good with his feet and distribution. Pope was rightly given a go in a dead rubber against Kosovo.
"Why does he keep using the same team, whats he going to learn unless others get given the opportunity"
As thats exactly what the likes of Sven and Capello had to put up with themselves - As you said earlier: Who'd want to be England Manager!!