As a supporter of the Melbourne 'Hakoah' all over Victoria for three years in my youth I can confirm that they were a Jewish based club. I will continue to big-up Ryan unless he makes apologist statements regarding Israeli treatment of Palestinians. Have seen him three times and value him as decent CB cover.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
Fair play to the moderators to allow this sensitive subject to be aired and also to the contributors on both sides to give reasoned and non-abusive comments. Long may it continue.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
It is a difficult subject because sometimes anti zionism is conflated with anti semitism. Sometimes anti zionists have wrongly allowed that to develop into anti-semitism. I think this is the root of the problem in the Labour party. This does the party no favours and needs to be stamped out - at this point with urgent expulsions from the party.
There is a zionist lobby and it is quite powerful in America and to a lesser extent, this country. The state of Israel's actions towards the Palestinians does demand scrutiny and criticism and thanks to people expressing openly anti-semitic views, this has become much harder to do, if not impossible. That isn't to say the Palestinians are perfect, but we do have to undertsand their plight and take our share of responsibility for it. This is the reason why Corbyn does need to act more decisively than he has been doing. But many that are doing the accusing, including some on here, don't really undertsand what they are accusing the labour party of.
Maybe, without googling, those that are the most outraged could highlight the people who Corbyn should be kicking out of the party and why.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
Sadly Jews don't help themselves on this matter. Just 14 months after brave British forces liberated the belsen death camp, Jewish terrorists bombed the British HQ in Jerusalem.
To this day the site of this atrocity, the king David hotel bears a plaque which blamed the British.
Maybe the Jewish press could demand a suitable and fittings tribute to those that perished that day. This would put right right history's biggest case of ingratitude.
RIP the 91
The bombing was carried out by Zionists not Jews per se. That’s the whole problem. No understanding of the difference.
From Wikipedia
and former members of Irgun.[48] A plaque commemorating the bombing was unveiled, stating "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated."
The British jewish press need to campaign to have such plaques removed. This plaque included a terrorist as a casualty.
I doubt every Jewish person ever is a Zionist. However I believe that Christian and ishsmic representaton among Zionists.
The flagging log the original list just highlights the level of intolerance on the left.
Yes, you can have Christian Zionists and without them we probably wouldn't have a state of Israel. Before the war, zionism was a minority movement within the Jewish people and many jews oppose it and in some quarters are accused of being traitors for doing so. Churchill was a passionate Zionist. I have a lot of hope for Israel as a nation, I know it sounds stupid but you look at the Eurovision Song contest and other things and see progressive elements within the country. Its young gives me hope for the future. I think there is peace in its future, but not whilst it has leaders like its current one. I think the way it has been settling on Palestinian land is an international crime. Does that make me anti-semitic? Maybe it does, but I respect the Jewish people greatly - those living in Israel and other countries - which has been what Jews have doing peacefully for centuries.
Yes, you can have Christian Zionists and without them we probably wouldn't have a state of Israel. Before teh war, zionism was a minority movement within the Jewish people. Churchill was a passionate Zionist. I have a lot of hope for Israel as a nation, I know it sounds stupid but you look at the Eurovision Song contest and other things and see progressive elements within the country. Its young gives me hope for the future. I think there is peace in its future, but not whilst it has leaders like its current one. I think the way it has been settling on Palestinian land is an international crime. Does that make me anti-semitic? Maybe it does, but I respect the Jewish people greatly - those living in Israel and other countries - which has been what Jews have doing peacefully for centuries.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as would like.
History lesson. Britain annexed and partitioned Palestine in 1947 after Irgun (Israeli) terrorism and opposed by the local population, cowed by the military might of UK and Us, the latter pouring in billions of pounds of military aid. Israel have annexed Palestinian territories granted in the disputed treaty and ignored numerous UNSC resolutions since 1967, without sanctions and indeed now compete in EUFA Cup and Eurovision. Hamas was formed in 1985 and Hezbollah in 1987.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
History lesson. Britain annexed and partitioned Palestine in 1947 after Irgun (Israeli) terrorism and opposed by the local population, cowed by the military might of UK and Us, the latter pouring in billions of pounds of military aid. Israel have annexed Palestinian territories granted in the disputed treaty and ignored numerous UNSC resolutions since 1967, without sanctions and indeed now compete in EUFA Cup and Eurovision. Hamas was formed in 1985 and Hezbollah in 1987.
History lesson.
There was a two state solution in 1947.
The Arab states rejected it and vowed to "drive the Jews in the sea".
The Isrealis defended their UN decreed state against the threat of annihilation.
None of this is relevant to or excuses the rampant Jew hate within the labour party.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
So the labour party have done no wrong, it's all a Tory smear, the Jews and Tory press are ganging but labour doesn't have an anti-Semitism problem even though you've yet again conflated Jew hate with "giving Israel at get out of jail free card".
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
So a group of travellers turn up in your back yard, put a fence up and declare their environs as their property. Because the authorities deem them a pursecuted race they declare the encampment legal. Without compensation or your agreement. As the family expands they extend the fence further into your land. You go to court who rule they have to return to their previous territory. They refuse and indeed advance their fence further down the garden.Shrugs all round. You get your mates round and threaten them to move back but they get their extended family and the authorities to bully you. Kids throw rocks over the fence and they shoot them. Unpunished. So they move their fence forward.
Please excuse the racist undertones, but I am criticising the most racist country in the world today
So a group of travellers turn up in your back yard, put a fence up and declare their environs as their property. Because the authorities deem them a pursecuted race they declare the encampment legal. Without compensation or your agreement. As the family expands they extend the fence further into your land. You go to court who rule they have to return to their previous territory. They refuse and indeed advance their fence further down the garden.Shrugs all round. You get your mates round and threaten them to move back but they get their extended family and the authorities to bully you. Kids throw rocks over the fence and they shoot them. Unpunished. So they move their fence forward.
Please excuse the racist undertones, but I am criticising the most racist country in the world today
No, I wont "excuse the racist undertones" even if you will.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
So the labour party have done no wrong, it's all a Tory smear, the Jews and Tory press are ganging but labour doesn't have an anti-Semitism problem even though you've yet again conflated Jew hate with "giving Israel at get out of jail free card".
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
So the labour party have done no wrong, it's all a Tory smear, the Jews and Tory press are ganging but labour doesn't have an anti-Semitism problem even though you've yet again conflated Jew hate with "giving Israel at get out of jail free card".
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
Blimey you’re very sure of yourself!
Yes, I have sincerely and long held views on racism and yes yes I'm sure that racism is a bad thing.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
So the labour party have done no wrong, it's all a Tory smear, the Jews and Tory press are ganging but labour doesn't have an anti-Semitism problem even though you've yet again conflated Jew hate with "giving Israel at get out of jail free card".
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
Blimey you’re very sure of yourself!
Yes, I have sincerely and long held views on racism and yes yes I'm sure that racism is a bad thing.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
So the labour party have done no wrong, it's all a Tory smear, the Jews and Tory press are ganging but labour doesn't have an anti-Semitism problem even though you've yet again conflated Jew hate with "giving Israel at get out of jail free card".
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
Blimey you’re very sure of yourself!
Yes, I have sincerely and long held views on racism and yes yes I'm sure that racism is a bad thing.
Are you not sure of your own views, Jim?
Don’t be silly Ben
Dont patronise me Jim.
If you have a point to make, then make, don't make this personal.
Ok, rather than focus on the press - Just give us some examples of the anti-semitism within the Labour party without googling them. I can give examples but I had to google them recently and I do think Corbyn could have done more, more quickly, in those cases, but I also think there are dark forces whipping this up too. Anyway, if you understand what is going on and that makes you angry, that's fair enough - and some will of course. But some couldn't give specific examples and if you are one of those you have to look at your reasons for your position!
Ok, rather than focus on the press - Just give us some examples of the anti-semitism within the Labour party without googling them. I can give examples but I had to google them recently and I do think Corbyn could have done more, more quickly, in those cases, but I also think there are dark forces whipping this up too. Anyway, if you understand what is going on and that makes you angry, that's fair enough - and some will of course. But some couldn't give specific examples and if you are one of those you have to look at your reasons for your position!
So a group of travellers turn up in your back yard, put a fence up and declare their environs as their property. Because the authorities deem them a pursecuted race they declare the encampment legal. Without compensation or your agreement. As the family expands they extend the fence further into your land. You go to court who rule they have to return to their previous territory. They refuse and indeed advance their fence further down the garden.Shrugs all round. You get your mates round and threaten them to move back but they get their extended family and the authorities to bully you. Kids throw rocks over the fence and they shoot them. Unpunished. So they move their fence forward.
Please excuse the racist undertones, but I am criticising the most racist country in the world today
No, I wont "excuse the racist undertones" even if you will.
Then please comment on the underlying racism of the Israeli regime, Ben.
Thanks Callum. Wasn't aware that HMG adopted the entire IHRA defenition against the advice of the HASC. Also didn't know that there was an Israel Apartheid Week (not a Jewish Apartheid Week) or that big hitters are trying to close it down. Let's not forget the JLC, UN Watch and Board of Deputies are avid supporters of Israel, and refuse to ctriticise any crimes committed by the regime or the failure to comply with UN resolutions.
why are we talking about israel?
Because Jews = Israel in their minds.
It's like saying all Muslims are to blame for human right abuses in Saudi Arabia as it is a Muslim state and any accusation of Islamophobia can be negated by "yeah, but look at Saudi Arabia."
At the risk of getting more condescending DMs, I stopped reading that Twitter account you seem to love when they posted something about Right of Return being anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish or something over the top, apologies for not being able to remember the specifics. It is undoubtedly a tactic used to couch anti-semitism, but it's also one used by the other side as well.
So you dismiss the evidence you can't remember as it doesn't suit your view but that's OK as, as you admit, you didn't read much of it.
No comments on Corbyn's support for terrorists either which you claimed was your issue before.
I actually read a lot of it. And I don't dismiss that there are anti-semitic elements within the Labour Party and that the response of leadership has been inexcusable.
Links to terrorists?
For what it's worth almost all governments and parties have people in them with 'links' to terrorists. Mrs Thatcher was the first prime minister to have talks with the IRA, but she was smart enough not to have any photographs taken to mark the occasion. The state of Israel was founded by people deemed terrorists at the time. It was people deemed terrorists who ended British rule in Ireland. The Nazis deemed the German resistance terrorists. Etc etc
again, why are you talking about the state of Israel (set up with a proposed Palastinian state by the UN by the way)?
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
I played a round of golf in Beirut once and Hessbollah were patrolling the 8th fairway, as it was flanking the Iranian embassy. I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as you’d like.
Did I say it was ever black and white? (Other than in a Charlton protest context).
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
Good post. I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
That's just not true
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
Three Jewish papers joined the Tory press in condemning Labour's refusal to give Israel a 'get out of jail free' card? Lucky they are all impartial.
So the labour party have done no wrong, it's all a Tory smear, the Jews and Tory press are ganging but labour doesn't have an anti-Semitism problem even though you've yet again conflated Jew hate with "giving Israel at get out of jail free card".
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
Blimey you’re very sure of yourself!
Yes, I have sincerely and long held views on racism and yes yes I'm sure that racism is a bad thing.
Are you not sure of your own views, Jim?
Don’t be silly Ben
Dont patronise me Jim.
If you have a point to make, then make, don't make this personal.
Mate you just virtually accused me of being racist on a public forum, and I’m being personal?
Ok, rather than focus on the press - Just give us some examples of the anti-semitism within the Labour party without googling them. I can give examples but I had to google them recently and I do think Corbyn could have done more, more quickly, in those cases, but I also think there are dark forces whipping this up too. Anyway, if you understand what is going on and that makes you angry, that's fair enough - and some will of course. But some couldn't give specific examples and if you are one of those you have to look at your reasons for your position!
I think some of the anti Semitic tropes against people like Jewish Bankers is a good example.
So a group of travellers turn up in your back yard, put a fence up and declare their environs as their property. Because the authorities deem them a pursecuted race they declare the encampment legal. Without compensation or your agreement. As the family expands they extend the fence further into your land. You go to court who rule they have to return to their previous territory. They refuse and indeed advance their fence further down the garden.Shrugs all round. You get your mates round and threaten them to move back but they get their extended family and the authorities to bully you. Kids throw rocks over the fence and they shoot them. Unpunished. So they move their fence forward.
Please excuse the racist undertones, but I am criticising the most racist country in the world today
No, I wont "excuse the racist undertones" even if you will.
Then please comment on the underlying racism of the Israeli regime, Ben.
Again, we debate Racism in the labour party and you scream "Whatabout Israel?"
Isreal's actions don't excuse the racism rampant in the Labour party.
Comments
Corbyn was not in government when he not only met with, and here's the key difference @JamesSeed and @SDAddick but SUPPORTED those terrorists. 100 times!
He wasn't negotiating peace or speaking to both sides. Just one side, just the terrorists who fitted into his world view. Hence the support for Hamas and Hesbollah and other deeply homophobic, misogynistic groups and Individuals, hence the acceptance of the constant anti-Semitism within Labour ranks.
There is a zionist lobby and it is quite powerful in America and to a lesser extent, this country. The state of Israel's actions towards the Palestinians does demand scrutiny and criticism and thanks to people expressing openly anti-semitic views, this has become much harder to do, if not impossible. That isn't to say the Palestinians are perfect, but we do have to undertsand their plight and take our share of responsibility for it. This is the reason why Corbyn does need to act more decisively than he has been doing. But many that are doing the accusing, including some on here, don't really undertsand what they are accusing the labour party of.
Maybe, without googling, those that are the most outraged could highlight the people who Corbyn should be kicking out of the party and why.
and former members of Irgun.[48] A plaque commemorating the bombing was unveiled, stating "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated."
The British jewish press need to campaign to have such plaques removed. This plaque included a terrorist as a casualty.
I doubt every Jewish person ever is a Zionist. However I believe that Christian and ishsmic representaton among Zionists.
The flagging log the original list just highlights the level of intolerance on the left.
I played up the 9th fairway.
This is a massively complex area, not really ideal material for forum debate which will end up with people falling out. I’ve worked extensively covering the troubles in the Middle East, and each visit showed thing certainly aren’t as black and white as would like.
It's the Corbyn left who spout the Israel bad, anyone Anti-Isreal, no matter how racist, homophobic, misogynist, good creed.
There is no solution until both sides recognise that there has to be a fair, two state, solution. They could even go back to the two state solution set out by the UN in 1947 but which was rejected by the surrounding Arab states.
The changes in, ironically the hard line Islamist state of Saudi Arabia, might actually make that more likely as they withdraw support from the more extreme groups and seek an easier relationship with the US.
None of which excuses the jew hate found in the labour party, or elsewhere.
There was a two state solution in 1947.
The Arab states rejected it and vowed to "drive the Jews in the sea".
The Isrealis defended their UN decreed state against the threat of annihilation.
None of this is relevant to or excuses the rampant Jew hate within the labour party.
I've never encountered anyone anti Semitic in the labour party, which doesn't mean there aren't any. But it's ironic thst it's the racist Tory press who are whipping this up, and wouldn't dream of committing so many column inches to exposing racism in the Tory party. I don't trust anything i read in any of these papers.
The three main Jewish papers ran the same headline and story opposing the labour party stance. They are not Tory papers.
It's an lazy response to blame the "Tory" press.
If the Tory press are using this as a stick to beat Corbyn and the labour left its because it's a bloody great big stick they Jeremy and his cultists have been happy to leave lying around from them to pick up and use.
If you ever needed an example of the problem the labour has regarding anti-Semitism you only need to read your posts. Isreal this, Israel that, Tory conspiracy, blank cheque.
Please excuse the racist undertones, but I am criticising the most racist country in the world today
Yes, I have sincerely and long held views on racism and yes yes I'm sure that racism is a bad thing.
Are you not sure of your own views, Jim?
If you have a point to make, then make, don't make this personal.
Isreal's actions don't excuse the racism rampant in the Labour party.