Genuinely lost for words when people can't see that there are ethical ways to rear and slaughter animals and there is also unethical way of doing it. Unless this is a massive wooosh
I would be “genuinely lost for words” that you can’t see the point that, for some people, all unnecessary killing of both human and non-human animals is unethical- but.... I’ve had to endure you spouting off on this topic so much over the last several years that I’m not.
Hmmm stealing a baby away from it’s mother, confine it to a crate and then take its life when it is still just very much a baby. Guess it depends on your definition of ethical.
Genuinely lost for words when people can't see that there are ethical ways to rear and slaughter animals and there is also unethical way of doing it. Unless this is a massive wooosh
I would be “genuinely lost for words” that you can’t see the point that, for some people, all unnecessary killing of both human and non-human animals is unethical- but.... I’ve had to endure you spouting off on this topic so much over the last several years that I’m not.
You're outraged by people debating the methods of killing and eating animals? Probably best not to open a thread titled "Halal Meat In ASDA"
I'm not the most sinical person on here when it comes to this, I do have a laugh with some veggies but it goes both ways and I always say that I respect peoples choices when it comes to eating meat, but I won't ever apologise for the fact that I eat meat and harvest it myself a lot of the time.
Genuinely lost for words when people can't see that there are ethical ways to rear and slaughter animals and there is also unethical way of doing it. Unless this is a massive wooosh
I would be “genuinely lost for words” that you can’t see the point that, for some people, all unnecessary killing of both human and non-human animals is unethical- but.... I’ve had to endure you spouting off on this topic so much over the last several years that I’m not.
I would much rather that people chose not to eat meat but it's not going to happen in my lifetime. Being pragmatic I would rather that meat eaters would wish their food to be produced in as ethical a way as possible, rather than a cruel and barbaric way.
I'd also much rather people didn't eat dairy products. I actually believe the lives of most of the animals from the dairy industry are just a long drawn out life of suffering. At least animals 'produced' for ethically sourced meat have a much better quality of life. But that's just being pragmatic. It's not for me and I find it difficult to understand why others would want to eat anything animal.
Mr Tatters is an avid meat eater. However, he would rather eat my vegan cooking than have to do his own
Genuinely lost for words when people can't see that there are ethical ways to rear and slaughter animals and there is also unethical way of doing it. Unless this is a massive wooosh
I would be “genuinely lost for words” that you can’t see the point that, for some people, all unnecessary killing of both human and non-human animals is unethical- but.... I’ve had to endure you spouting off on this topic so much over the last several years that I’m not.
You're outraged by people debating the methods of killing and eating animals? Probably best not to open a thread titled "Halal Meat In ASDA"
I'm not the most sinical person on here when it comes to this, I do have a laugh with some veggies but it goes both ways and I always say that I respect peoples choices when it comes to eating meat, but I won't ever apologise for the fact that I eat meat and harvest it myself a lot of the time.
Putting words in my mouth. I welcome debate and am not outraged by it.
What does it matter in all honesty how it dies as long as it’s done quickly
I have bolt gunned animals before slaughter and that didn’t always go well
Cutting the animals throat is about as quick a way to kill it as anything
It tastes the same and all animals on way into the slaughterhouse know by the smell and senses from from other animals what is about to happen isn’t going to be great of that I am certain
But eating meat is not an issue same as only eating veg ain’t an issue
It does matter because if we're going to kill animals, the very least we can do is minimise the pain as much as possible.
We're the most intelligent and developed creatures on this planet, and we should enforce our inherent compassion.
There is absolutely no reason for an animal to suffer when we can just kill them near instantly. Yes the bolt gun can sometimes go wrong, but when it does work, which is most of the time, the animal is dead before it even knows what's going on.
You can freely look up videos of animals having their neck's cut online in these horrible halal slaughterhouses.
They don't die instantly. They bleed terribly, squirting blood all over the place, desperately trying to gasp for air, eventually collapsing. This can take over two minutes. It is sick.
Halal meat, Kosha meat or normal meat. It's just the way the amimal is killed and the way prayers are made over it. It does not change the taste of the meat. A muslim person could go to Asda and will have no way of knowing if the animal was killed in that way. It tastes the same.
I mean when the Queen had her 80th birthday there was a banquet and the starter was "Outter Hebradian Smoked Salmon". If had come from the Inner Hebradian area would the Queen have taken one mouthfall and spat it out complaining it was inner Hebradian? It would have the same taste. So if you lied to a mislim bloke that Kosha was Halal would he take one bite and spit it out? Course he wouldn't.
Genuinely lost for words when people can't see that there are ethical ways to rear and slaughter animals and there is also unethical way of doing it. Unless this is a massive wooosh
I would be “genuinely lost for words” that you can’t see the point that, for some people, all unnecessary killing of both human and non-human animals is unethical- but.... I’ve had to endure you spouting off on this topic so much over the last several years that I’m not.
You're outraged by people debating the methods of killing and eating animals? Probably best not to open a thread titled "Halal Meat In ASDA"
I'm not the most sinical person on here when it comes to this, I do have a laugh with some veggies but it goes both ways and I always say that I respect peoples choices when it comes to eating meat, but I won't ever apologise for the fact that I eat meat and harvest it myself a lot of the time.
Putting words in my mouth. I welcome debate and am not outraged by it.
So instead of accusing me of "spouting off", why not debate?
You can freely look up videos of animals having their neck's cut online in these horrible halal slaughterhouses.
They don't die instantly. They bleed terribly, squirting blood all over the place, desperately trying to gasp for air, eventually collapsing. This can take over two minutes. It is sick.
Not just halal slaughterhouses. If you think non-halal slaughterhouses are all sweetness and and light, where animals embrace their demise, where animals are kissed to death then I can point you in the direction of many examples of animals fighting for their last breath. I can’t see how it is so hard to understand, there is no humane way to kill an animal that just wants to live.
You can freely look up videos of animals having their neck's cut online in these horrible halal slaughterhouses.
They don't die instantly. They bleed terribly, squirting blood all over the place, desperately trying to gasp for air, eventually collapsing. This can take over two minutes. It is sick.
Not just halal slaughterhouses. If you think non-halal slaughterhouses are all sweetness and and light, where animals embrace their demise, where animals are kissed to death then I can point you in the direction of many examples of animals fighting for their last breath. I can’t see how it is so hard to understand, there is no humane way to kill an animal that just wants to live.
You can freely look up videos of animals having their neck's cut online in these horrible halal slaughterhouses.
They don't die instantly. They bleed terribly, squirting blood all over the place, desperately trying to gasp for air, eventually collapsing. This can take over two minutes. It is sick.
Not just halal slaughterhouses. If you think non-halal slaughterhouses are all sweetness and and light, where animals embrace their demise, where animals are kissed to death then I can point you in the direction of many examples of animals fighting for their last breath. I can’t see how it is so hard to understand, there is no humane way to kill an animal that just wants to live.
I'm sure, but two wrongs don't make a right. The halal process deliberately makes the animal suffer to serve the selfish interests of certain communities.
I think the point being missed here why on earth would you buy your meat in a supermarket? Try your local butcher, get to know him, ask for special cuts. After a week or two of eating butchers meat you will never buy your meat again in ASDA.
You can freely look up videos of animals having their neck's cut online in these horrible halal slaughterhouses.
They don't die instantly. They bleed terribly, squirting blood all over the place, desperately trying to gasp for air, eventually collapsing. This can take over two minutes. It is sick.
Not just halal slaughterhouses. If you think non-halal slaughterhouses are all sweetness and and light, where animals embrace their demise, where animals are kissed to death then I can point you in the direction of many examples of animals fighting for their last breath. I can’t see how it is so hard to understand, there is no humane way to kill an animal that just wants to live.
What if an animal isn't well?
My biological father was a vet and I learned the reality of the cycle of life from a very young age. If an animal isn’t well then I understand fully that euthanasia is the best option for a suffering animal even if they don’t fully understand what is happening. Please don’t try and make a counter argument of ‘well yeah, they may have had cancer but they still wanted to live’ as you’re better than that Rob. I’ve held three dogs and five cats as they’ve left for the Rainbow Bridge and each time they’ve looked me in the eyes for some sort of comfort and each time it has broken my heart but the decision has been made to end their suffering.
This is obviously a subject that I'm passionate about, so why shouldn't I make a counter argument? I've so far been pulled up for "lashing out" and "spouting off", when all I'm trying to do is challenge a notion that I don't agree with. If people don't want to make decisions on the life and death of animals, for any reason, then they shouldn't keep them surely?
An example - If I rear a cow and it gets fed the best feed in the biggest meadow and the best health care for the 18 - 24 months it's in my care, what is wrong with me then taking the healthy animal out of this world with no pain whatsoever and with it being totally oblivious as to what has happened? If it turns out my next cow has Blackleg and needs to be euthanased at 17 months, what is the difference? The point I'm making isn't that we should all eat meat, as I've always said, people can eat what they want, I'm just trying to challenge the idea that slaughter of animals, using any method, is morally wrong and unethical.
Nb - I've had pets put down over the years and it never gets any easier and the way it's going we might be going down that route in the not too distant future an all
I wasn’t asking you not to make a counter argument on the topic in general, it’s just sometimes you can be quite flippant and I was meaning to that specific post.
As for your example, that really comes down to how you perceive the life of a non-human animal. Personally I could never envisage a time where I could spend 18-24 months nurturing an animal and giving it a perfectly beautiful life only to then end that life for the sole purpose of eating it. I would have spent that time bonding with it, getting to know it, learning how to read it’s mood. I would have grown accustomed to it looking to me to look after it, to provide it with comfort and sustenance. I would have stoked it, hugged it and yes, probably given it a few kisses. I would have laughed as I watched it play in the field. I would have taken it to my heart. To then commit the ultimate betrayal and kill it (in whichever ‘acceptable’ way you care to mention) for the sake of a fifteen minute meal which I’ll have forgotten in an hour is just incomprehensible to me. It would be like slitting the throat of a family member.
As I say, that’s just me and maybe I am guilty of over anthropomorphising animals but that’s just how I am.
I wasn’t asking you not to make a counter argument on the topic in general, it’s just sometimes you can be quite flippant and I was meaning to that specific post.
As for your example, that really comes down to how you perceive the life of a non-human animal. Personally I could never envisage a time where I could spend 18-24 months nurturing an animal and giving it a perfectly beautiful life only to then end that life for the sole purpose of eating it. I would have spent that time bonding with it, getting to know it, learning how to read it’s mood. I would have grown accustomed to it looking to me to look after it, to provide it with comfort and sustenance. I would have stoked it, hugged it and yes, probably given it a few kisses. I would have laughed as I watched it play in the field. I would have taken it to my heart. To then commit the ultimate betrayal and kill it (in whichever ‘acceptable’ way you care to mention) for the sake of a fifteen minute meal which I’ll have forgotten in an hour is just incomprehensible to me. It would be like slitting the throat of a family member.
As I say, that’s just me and maybe I am guilty of over anthropomorphising animals but that’s just how I am.
Slaughtering a well looked after cow is very different from slitting the throat of a family member, isn't it?
I have some sympathy with your views, even if I disagree with them. But equating animal slaughter for food with murdering a relative doesn't help you make your argument.
One minute I'm flippant, the next I'm throwing me toys out the pram.
I'd all those things you described, as we do with out poultry, and when it comes to it, they get treated with respect and so does the food they provide for us.
An example - If I rear a cow and it gets fed the best feed in the biggest meadow and the best health care for the 18 - 24 months it's in my care, what is wrong with me then taking the healthy animal out of this world with no pain whatsoever and with it being totally oblivious as to what has happened?
And this is why it’s so hard to debate with you, Rob.
Once again, there are some people that find this unethical and akin to the murder of a human. Do you acknowledge that? Have you thought PROPERLY about why people hold that view.
I get that you disagree... and I’ve heard you take joy in declaring to the world that you have taken XXX number of non-human lives.
Generally, I hold my tongue and ignore you as you have shown time and again that there’s no point in getting into this with you. Today, however, I was riled by you taking the moral high ground on methods of animal slaughter (which happens to coincide with another issue you enjoy “spouting off” about- Muslims).
Try this:
Killer A tortures his victims before killing them.
Killer B sneaks up and kills them without seeing hem coming (actually I’m being generous here, the reality is much more harsh than this in many cases)
To me... they are both still killers, and it appalls me that Killer B feels that he can take the moral high ground over killer A.
Of course, you will now come back with more arguments, and I dare say I could predict some.
But, will you acknowledge why this is a possible moral starting point; for some people you are no better than the halal butchers that you condemn for their practices.
Comments
Get back to mooslem bashing
I'm not the most sinical person on here when it comes to this, I do have a laugh with some veggies but it goes both ways and I always say that I respect peoples choices when it comes to eating meat, but I won't ever apologise for the fact that I eat meat and harvest it myself a lot of the time.
I'd also much rather people didn't eat dairy products. I actually believe the lives of most of the animals from the dairy industry are just a long drawn out life of suffering. At least animals 'produced' for ethically sourced meat have a much better quality of life. But that's just being pragmatic. It's not for me and I find it difficult to understand why others would want to eat anything animal.
Mr Tatters is an avid meat eater. However, he would rather eat my vegan cooking than have to do his own
The animal is about to die before it gets eaten
What does it matter in all honesty how it dies as long as it’s done quickly
I have bolt gunned animals before slaughter and that didn’t always go well
Cutting the animals throat is about as quick a way to kill it as anything
It tastes the same and all animals on way into the slaughterhouse know by the smell and senses from from other animals what is about to happen isn’t going to be great of that I am certain
But eating meat is not an issue same as only eating veg ain’t an issue
We're the most intelligent and developed creatures on this planet, and we should enforce our inherent compassion.
There is absolutely no reason for an animal to suffer when we can just kill them near instantly. Yes the bolt gun can sometimes go wrong, but when it does work, which is most of the time, the animal is dead before it even knows what's going on.
They don't die instantly. They bleed terribly, squirting blood all over the place, desperately trying to gasp for air, eventually collapsing. This can take over two minutes. It is sick.
I mean when the Queen had her 80th birthday there was a banquet and the starter was "Outter Hebradian Smoked Salmon". If had come from the Inner Hebradian area would the Queen have taken one mouthfall and spat it out complaining it was inner Hebradian? It would have the same taste. So if you lied to a mislim bloke that Kosha was Halal would he take one bite and spit it out? Course he wouldn't.
Not just halal slaughterhouses. If you think non-halal slaughterhouses are all sweetness and and light, where animals embrace their demise, where animals are kissed to death then I can point you in the direction of many examples of animals fighting for their last breath. I can’t see how it is so hard to understand, there is no humane way to kill an animal that just wants to live.
My biological father was a vet and I learned the reality of the cycle of life from a very young age. If an animal isn’t well then I understand fully that euthanasia is the best option for a suffering animal even if they don’t fully understand what is happening. Please don’t try and make a counter argument of ‘well yeah, they may have had cancer but they still wanted to live’ as you’re better than that Rob. I’ve held three dogs and five cats as they’ve left for the Rainbow Bridge and each time they’ve looked me in the eyes for some sort of comfort and each time it has broken my heart but the decision has been made to end their suffering.
An example - If I rear a cow and it gets fed the best feed in the biggest meadow and the best health care for the 18 - 24 months it's in my care, what is wrong with me then taking the healthy animal out of this world with no pain whatsoever and with it being totally oblivious as to what has happened? If it turns out my next cow has Blackleg and needs to be euthanased at 17 months, what is the difference? The point I'm making isn't that we should all eat meat, as I've always said, people can eat what they want, I'm just trying to challenge the idea that slaughter of animals, using any method, is morally wrong and unethical.
Nb - I've had pets put down over the years and it never gets any easier and the way it's going we might be going down that route in the not too distant future an all
As for your example, that really comes down to how you perceive the life of a non-human animal. Personally I could never envisage a time where I could spend 18-24 months nurturing an animal and giving it a perfectly beautiful life only to then end that life for the sole purpose of eating it. I would have spent that time bonding with it, getting to know it, learning how to read it’s mood. I would have grown accustomed to it looking to me to look after it, to provide it with comfort and sustenance. I would have stoked it, hugged it and yes, probably given it a few kisses. I would have laughed as I watched it play in the field. I would have taken it to my heart. To then commit the ultimate betrayal and kill it (in whichever ‘acceptable’ way you care to mention) for the sake of a fifteen minute meal which I’ll have forgotten in an hour is just incomprehensible to me. It would be like slitting the throat of a family member.
As I say, that’s just me and maybe I am guilty of over anthropomorphising animals but that’s just how I am.
I have some sympathy with your views, even if I disagree with them. But equating animal slaughter for food with murdering a relative doesn't help you make your argument.
I'd all those things you described, as we do with out poultry, and when it comes to it, they get treated with respect and so does the food they provide for us.
Once again, there are some people that find this unethical and akin to the murder of a human. Do you acknowledge that? Have you thought PROPERLY about why people hold that view.
I get that you disagree... and I’ve heard you take joy in declaring to the world that you have taken XXX number of non-human lives.
Generally, I hold my tongue and ignore you as you have shown time and again that there’s no point in getting into this with you. Today, however, I was riled by you taking the moral high ground on methods of animal slaughter (which happens to coincide with another issue you enjoy “spouting off” about- Muslims).
Try this:
Killer A tortures his victims before killing them.
Killer B sneaks up and kills them without seeing hem coming (actually I’m being generous here, the reality is much more harsh than this in many cases)
To me... they are both still killers, and it appalls me that Killer B feels that he can take the moral high ground over killer A.
Of course, you will now come back with more arguments, and I dare say I could predict some.
But, will you acknowledge why this is a possible moral starting point; for some people you are no better than the halal butchers that you condemn for their practices.
A cow is genetically 95% human and it lives, fears, loves and cares. I couldn't kill it. I just don't have the heart.
I, like most people, selfishly give that responsibility to somebody else.
The Act introduced tougher penalties for neglect and cruelty, including fines of up to £20,000, a maximum jail term of 51 weeks and a lifetime ban.
The act applies to domestic animals but I don't see why dogs and cats should get any preferential treatment to cows.