I’ve just arrived in my hotel in Dublin. Taxi driver from the airport was a decent chat as I guess you’d expect.
Dublin is booming but the rest of Ireland less so. However from where he sits, he still cannot believe we either a) were offered a referendum or b ) votes to leave the EU
His main point is that we do not live in a world of the 1940s-1960s. The world has moved on and being a big player in the EU is something that Ireland dreams of and yet the UK has decided to try and chuck that away.
We also agreed that it is not those who bot s for it but the generations that come after that will have to live with the effects.
2 ppints to make on this....
Of course ROI want to be a part of it.... Utter piffle.
PWR, the point will no doubt have been made somewhere at sometime -
That might change. The ROI has, in the past received more than its contributed to the EU budget. Going forward, whether the UK is in or out, those handouts will disappear. If the ROI or some of the other smaller economies have to start being a net payer then membership of the EU might not look like such a good deal. Unless say the French start chipping in even more...oh,hang on...
Is Ireland still a net recipient?
Not any more, which is one of the reasons that Ray Bassett and other loons suggesting some kind of "Irexit" give for their stance.
Were I to wish to really annoy some of those taking, shall we say, a "more traditional" view of Ireland and its place vis-a-vis the wider World, I might highlight the fact that, following the Brexit vote, Ireland now has observer status in the Francophonie, but I don'r, so I won't.
Tuesday - reject May’s deal Wednesday - revoke Article 50 Thursday - start coming up with a sensible plan for Brexit
There won't be a vote - the numbers against are too high - May will kick it down the road for a few weeks.
There will definitely be a vote tomorrow. Why would there not ? The EU wont renegotiate a deal arguably at all but certainly not on the suggestion that it might not pass a vote.
I dont think it will get through and I dont think May will resign. She will return to Brussels and ask the question. I doubt she gets anything at all but if she does get something im confident it still wont be enough to pass a vote.
Norway looks unlikely to me as it includes freedom of movement and adhering to the CU. Whats left ?
Passing the buck looks most likely. Passing it back to the people.
Tuesday - reject May’s deal Wednesday - revoke Article 50 Thursday - start coming up with a sensible plan for Brexit
There won't be a vote - the numbers against are too high - May will kick it down the road for a few weeks.
There will definitely be a vote tomorrow. Why would there not ? The EU wont renegotiate a deal arguably at all but certainly not on the suggestion that it might not pass a vote.
I dont think it will get through and I dont think May will resign. She will return to Brussels and ask the question. I doubt she gets anything at all but if she does get something im confident it still wont be enough to pass a vote.
Norway looks unlikely to me as it includes freedom of movement and adhering to the CU. Whats left ?
Passing the buck looks most likely. Passing it back to the people.
This talk of disorder on the streets if Brexit gets stopped is nonsense. More than 700,000 people took to the streets recently to protest against Brexit. Yesterday, barely 1,000 people turned up at a widely advertised pro-Brexit March in London and a pro Brexit march in Liverpool was cancelled because no one turned up!
I'd like to think so and wouldn't expect anything very organised or large scale on a sustained basis but I did notice more of those yellow and black flags from that Generation Identity lot cropped up yesterday and it does seem as if far-right groups are using Brexit to reinvigorate interest in them and their aims. We know for a fact hate crimes spiked after the referendum so there are plenty of morons out there.
I think that image is disgusting. Wish we could deport idiots like that. Where to though? Who would want that sort of scum?
I totally disagree. The idiot in the sunglasses, in London, in December, wearing a #giletsjaune and holding a pretend gallows should be allowed his moment of infamy, at the risk of of being roundly and completely vilified and humiliated. But not "deported". That's the language of the idiots whose side he is on.
Let him exercise his right of protest, within the law; but arrest him if he's in breach. That's what we do in the UK - suffer the idiots, so we all get rights. Which, ironically, is the opposite of what we are currently doing - losing rights, because of the idiots.
I’ve just arrived in my hotel in Dublin. Taxi driver from the airport was a decent chat as I guess you’d expect.
Dublin is booming but the rest of Ireland less so. However from where he sits, he still cannot believe we either a) were offered a referendum or b ) votes to leave the EU
His main point is that we do not live in a world of the 1940s-1960s. The world has moved on and being a big player in the EU is something that Ireland dreams of and yet the UK has decided to try and chuck that away.
We also agreed that it is not those who bot s for it but the generations that come after that will have to live with the effects.
2 ppints to make on this....
Of course ROI want to be a part of it.... Utter piffle.
PWR, the point will no doubt have been made somewhere at sometime -
That might change. The ROI has, in the past received more than its contributed to the EU budget. Going forward, whether the UK is in or out, those handouts will disappear. If the ROI or some of the other smaller economies have to start being a net payer then membership of the EU might not look like such a good deal. Unless say the French start chipping in even more...oh,hang on...
Is Ireland still a net recipient?
Not any more, which is one of the reasons that Ray Bassett and other loons suggesting some kind of "Irexit" give for their stance.
Were I to wish to really annoy some of those taking, shall we say, a "more traditional" view of Ireland and its place vis-a-vis the wider World, I might highlight the fact that, following the Brexit vote, Ireland now has observer status in the Francophonie, but I don'r, so I won't.
Can anyone seriously doubt that if Brexit goes ahead that within 5 years the UK will consist of England and Wales only?
I suspect you could be right. SNP are playing a careful game at present and will be ready to strike. All this English nationalist rhetoric is certainly helping. Not sure what the Welsh will feel about that. Mind you they voted to leave so...
I’m sure there will be some who would probably welcome such an outcome. The words nose and face spring to mind.
I’ve just arrived in my hotel in Dublin. Taxi driver from the airport was a decent chat as I guess you’d expect.
Dublin is booming but the rest of Ireland less so. However from where he sits, he still cannot believe we either a) were offered a referendum or b ) votes to leave the EU
His main point is that we do not live in a world of the 1940s-1960s. The world has moved on and being a big player in the EU is something that Ireland dreams of and yet the UK has decided to try and chuck that away.
We also agreed that it is not those who bot s for it but the generations that come after that will have to live with the effects.
I used to work in Dublin regularly. Had some wonderful chats with taxi drivers on the way into the city. Loved the fact that they all knew about Charlton because of Keily and Kinsella.
"I used to work in Dublin regularly". Without even the merest hint of irony.
People are allowed to work in other countries, with, or without The Eu.
Yep. But if we lose freedom of movement, we lose significant opportunities. Not all, granted. But some. No longer being able to benefit from freedom of movement - and thus, unfettered opportunity to work anywhere, at any time, in any one of 28 countries - isn't as bad as being forcibly prevented from ever working abroad. But it's still bad.
In the same way that having one arm amputated is less debilitating than losing both.
Tuesday - reject May’s deal Wednesday - revoke Article 50 Thursday - start coming up with a sensible plan for Brexit
There won't be a vote - the numbers against are too high - May will kick it down the road for a few weeks.
There will definitely be a vote tomorrow. Why would there not ? The EU wont renegotiate a deal arguably at all but certainly not on the suggestion that it might not pass a vote.
I dont think it will get through and I dont think May will resign. She will return to Brussels and ask the question. I doubt she gets anything at all but if she does get something im confident it still wont be enough to pass a vote.
Norway looks unlikely to me as it includes freedom of movement and adhering to the CU. Whats left ?
Passing the buck looks most likely. Passing it back to the people.
Interesting. Most of the newspapers are suggesting that a leadership challenge is now imminent so May’s only hope might be to push ahead with the vote and hope beyond hope that it gets through. Once its on statute I doubt that loonies can do much about it. Should she delay it might give Johnson enough time to oust her. Big risk thought for anyone going head to head. They might lose. Political suicide and death of any hard brexit aspirations.
If she cancels the vote, all hell breaks loose, in theory, she doesn't have to do anything, we leave by law on March 29th at 11pm, nothing else needs doing, and what the leave extremists want
I’ve just arrived in my hotel in Dublin. Taxi driver from the airport was a decent chat as I guess you’d expect.
Dublin is booming but the rest of Ireland less so. However from where he sits, he still cannot believe we either a) were offered a referendum or b ) votes to leave the EU
His main point is that we do not live in a world of the 1940s-1960s. The world has moved on and being a big player in the EU is something that Ireland dreams of and yet the UK has decided to try and chuck that away.
We also agreed that it is not those who bot s for it but the generations that come after that will have to live with the effects.
I used to work in Dublin regularly. Had some wonderful chats with taxi drivers on the way into the city. Loved the fact that they all knew about Charlton because of Keily and Kinsella.
"I used to work in Dublin regularly". Without even the merest hint of irony.
Not sure what you mean. I’ve mentioned before that I have worked more than half my working life overseas, primarily Frankfurt and Singapore, but basically all over.
OK. I'll spell it out for you. You've had an opportunity to benefit from freedom of movement within the EU and you are fiercely defending a position that terminates those rights for other people.
It comes across as hypocritical, privileged or - some people might even think - spiteful to deny younger people the rights you've enjoyed and exploited in the past.
I've worked in a few countries in the EU. In France, Germany, Finland, the Netherlands and Spain. I cannot imagine how I would ever come to the conclusion that the right thing to do is to deny the same level of opportunity to others.
Pity you haven't read my views and the reason for my decision more clearly ... then you might begin to understand.
The one thing I have never once pushed for on this thread, or any other, is restriction of freedom of movement nor have I ever made any anti-immigration statement. If I had, it would be extremely hypocritical as I am the son of an immigrant.
I have given my reasons far more than most people on here ... they are nothing whatsoever to do with people - my rationale is entirely predicated upon trade and the need to negotiate.
Tuesday - reject May’s deal Wednesday - revoke Article 50 Thursday - start coming up with a sensible plan for Brexit
There won't be a vote - the numbers against are too high - May will kick it down the road for a few weeks.
There will definitely be a vote tomorrow. Why would there not ? The EU wont renegotiate a deal arguably at all but certainly not on the suggestion that it might not pass a vote.
I dont think it will get through and I dont think May will resign. She will return to Brussels and ask the question. I doubt she gets anything at all but if she does get something im confident it still wont be enough to pass a vote.
Norway looks unlikely to me as it includes freedom of movement and adhering to the CU. Whats left ?
Passing the buck looks most likely. Passing it back to the people.
Interesting. Most of the newspapers are suggesting that a leadership challenge is now imminent so May’s only hope might be to push ahead with the vote and hope beyond hope that it gets through. Once its on statute I doubt that loonies can do much about it. Should she delay it might give Johnson enough time to oust her. Big risk thought for anyone going head to head. They might lose. Political suicide and death of any hard brexit aspirations.
Interesting times.
Interesting point about the Tory party leadership and how it was (deliberately?) obfuscated by Marr yesterday in his interview with Boris Johnson.
The current set of rules in the Conservative party are such that leader of the party remains in that position until such time as he or she stands aside (or is forced to do so). A leadership election then takes place among other members of the parliamentary Tory party - but the "current" leader cannot take part. (Labour's rules are different: the incumbent can take part, as Corbyn did when challenged in 2016).
So, in short, Boris Johnson cannot challenge Theresa May. He can challenge other candidates in an election to replace her, but cannot go head to head with her.
So Marr's underarm tennis serve to Johnson yesterday seemed intended to shed darkness, rather than light, on Johnson's intentions. He asked Johnson to confirm in no uncertain terms that he will not challenge Theresa May. The fact is, he can't.
If she cancels the vote, all hell breaks loose, in theory, she doesn't have to do anything, we leave by law on March 29th at 11pm, nothing else needs doing, and what the leave extremists want
Thats a worrying possibility. If May is replaced as leader we could see Johnson or McVey or whoever replaces her just sit on their hands and let us fall out im March.
I’ve just arrived in my hotel in Dublin. Taxi driver from the airport was a decent chat as I guess you’d expect.
Dublin is booming but the rest of Ireland less so. However from where he sits, he still cannot believe we either a) were offered a referendum or b ) votes to leave the EU
His main point is that we do not live in a world of the 1940s-1960s. The world has moved on and being a big player in the EU is something that Ireland dreams of and yet the UK has decided to try and chuck that away.
We also agreed that it is not those who bot s for it but the generations that come after that will have to live with the effects.
I used to work in Dublin regularly. Had some wonderful chats with taxi drivers on the way into the city. Loved the fact that they all knew about Charlton because of Keily and Kinsella.
"I used to work in Dublin regularly". Without even the merest hint of irony.
Not sure what you mean. I’ve mentioned before that I have worked more than half my working life overseas, primarily Frankfurt and Singapore, but basically all over.
OK. I'll spell it out for you. You've had an opportunity to benefit from freedom of movement within the EU and you are fiercely defending a position that terminates those rights for other people.
It comes across as hypocritical, privileged or - some people might even think - spiteful to deny younger people the rights you've enjoyed and exploited in the past.
I've worked in a few countries in the EU. In France, Germany, Finland, the Netherlands and Spain. I cannot imagine how I would ever come to the conclusion that the right thing to do is to deny the same level of opportunity to others.
Pity you haven't read my views and the reason for my decision more clearly ... then you might begin to understand.
The one thing I have never once pushed for on this thread, or any other, is restriction of freedom of movement nor have I ever made any anti-immigration statement. If I had, it would be extremely hypocritical as I am the son of an immigrant.
I have given my reasons far more than most people on here ... they are nothing whatsoever to do with people - my rationale is entirely predicated upon trade and the need to negotiate.
Leave means leave. Brexit means Brexit. You knew what you were voting for. And it's ending freedom of movement for everyone in this country.
If she cancels the vote, all hell breaks loose, in theory, she doesn't have to do anything, we leave by law on March 29th at 11pm, nothing else needs doing, and what the leave extremists want
If she cancels then Labour should immediately introduce legislation to revoke Article 50 and call for a vote of no confidence.
Re Switzerland..keep this chart handy. So Switzerland isn't in either the Single Market, or the Customs Union (but Turkey is), same is true of Norway. Switzerland is in Schengen, which therefore makes it a bit puzzling that they can get away with issuing some kind of short-term visa.
Very "interesting" country, Switzerland. One of my buddies here is a Swiss citizen. Last week at our regular beers we were debating recycling issues (as you do) and he told us that in CH you pay for every single bag of trash you deposit. So many Swiss drive over the border to Germany and dump their rubbish in German recycling bins. I also recall that at least in parts of Switzerland, if you live in an apartment block you are prohibited from flushing the loo after 22.00. Imagine if "Brussels" tried to enforce those two as EU-wide regulations
Re Switzerland..keep this chart handy. So Switzerland isn't in either the Single Market, or the Customs Union (but Turkey is), same is true of Norway. Switzerland is in Schengen, which therefore makes it a bit puzzling that they can get away with issuing some kind of short-term visa.
Very "interesting" country, Switzerland. One of my buddies here is a Swiss citizen. Last week at our regular beers we were debating recycling issues (as you do) and he told us that in CH you pay for every single bag of trash you deposit. So many Swiss drive over the border to Germany and dump their rubbish in German recycling bins. I also recall that at least in parts of Switzerland, if you live in an apartment block you are prohibited from flushing the loo after 22.00. Imagine if "Brussels" tried to enforce those two as EU-wide regulations
Yes, I find it a fascinating country - that you essentially have 2 or 3 separate cultures, with different languages, religions and (having worked predominantly in Zurich but also Geneva which are very different places united only by the astronomical cost of beer) cultures. I always try and figure out why the north hasn’t unified with Germany, the East with France and the South with Italy. I asked colleagues and they seem to just shrug and say “it works”!
Re Switzerland..keep this chart handy. So Switzerland isn't in either the Single Market, or the Customs Union (but Turkey is), same is true of Norway. Switzerland is in Schengen, which therefore makes it a bit puzzling that they can get away with issuing some kind of short-term visa.
Very "interesting" country, Switzerland. One of my buddies here is a Swiss citizen. Last week at our regular beers we were debating recycling issues (as you do) and he told us that in CH you pay for every single bag of trash you deposit. So many Swiss drive over the border to Germany and dump their rubbish in German recycling bins. I also recall that at least in parts of Switzerland, if you live in an apartment block you are prohibited from flushing the loo after 22.00. Imagine if "Brussels" tried to enforce those two as EU-wide regulations
Yes, I find it a fascinating country - that you essentially have 2 or 3 separate cultures, with different languages, religions and (having worked predominantly in Zurich but also Geneva which are very different places united only by the astronomical cost of beer) cultures. I always try and figure out why the north hasn’t unified with Germany, the East with France and the South with Italy. I asked colleagues and they seem to just shrug and say “it works”!
The swiss are twats. Holidayed in the french alps by the border multiple times, the french are lovely, ditto Germans, but the swiss are just rude twats.
Comments
I dont think it will get through and I dont think May will resign. She will return to Brussels and ask the question. I doubt she gets anything at all but if she does get something im confident it still wont be enough to pass a vote.
Norway looks unlikely to me as it includes freedom of movement and adhering to the CU. Whats left ?
Passing the buck looks most likely. Passing it back to the people.
Let him exercise his right of protest, within the law; but arrest him if he's in breach. That's what we do in the UK - suffer the idiots, so we all get rights. Which, ironically, is the opposite of what we are currently doing - losing rights, because of the idiots.
I’m sure there will be some who would probably welcome such an outcome. The words nose and face spring to mind.
In the same way that having one arm amputated is less debilitating than losing both.
Interesting times.
The one thing I have never once pushed for on this thread, or any other, is restriction of freedom of movement nor have I ever made any anti-immigration statement. If I had, it would be extremely hypocritical as I am the son of an immigrant.
I have given my reasons far more than most people on here ... they are nothing whatsoever to do with people - my rationale is entirely predicated upon trade and the need to negotiate.
The current set of rules in the Conservative party are such that leader of the party remains in that position until such time as he or she stands aside (or is forced to do so). A leadership election then takes place among other members of the parliamentary Tory party - but the "current" leader cannot take part. (Labour's rules are different: the incumbent can take part, as Corbyn did when challenged in 2016).
So, in short, Boris Johnson cannot challenge Theresa May. He can challenge other candidates in an election to replace her, but cannot go head to head with her.
So Marr's underarm tennis serve to Johnson yesterday seemed intended to shed darkness, rather than light, on Johnson's intentions. He asked Johnson to confirm in no uncertain terms that he will not challenge Theresa May. The fact is, he can't.
Re Switzerland..keep this chart handy. So Switzerland isn't in either the Single Market, or the Customs Union (but Turkey is), same is true of Norway. Switzerland is in Schengen, which therefore makes it a bit puzzling that they can get away with issuing some kind of short-term visa.
Very "interesting" country, Switzerland. One of my buddies here is a Swiss citizen. Last week at our regular beers we were debating recycling issues (as you do) and he told us that in CH you pay for every single bag of trash you deposit. So many Swiss drive over the border to Germany and dump their rubbish in German recycling bins. I also recall that at least in parts of Switzerland, if you live in an apartment block you are prohibited from flushing the loo after 22.00. Imagine if "Brussels" tried to enforce those two as EU-wide regulations
Edit - Seen it flash on Bloomberg, no where else?
If she's allowed to change her mind, aren't we?