No ones life will improve immediately on or immediately after the UK leaving the EU other than those who have big bets (Rees-mogg etc) in financial market disruption on or immediately after.
In 30 years with a fair wind could this country be better off outside the EU?
Maybe but very unlikely I think.
A lot of us will be dead or dribbling on our laps in 30 years time!
Oh man. Thats the conversation I've being trying to have with @Southbank
It is so difficult to get an answer from any quitter, and when you do and you counter it with facts, they do exactly what this bloke did. Or agree with you, then spout the same rubbish to someone more gullible.
It's why I find it impossible not to call most of them stupid.
Oh man. Thats the conversation I've being trying to have with @Southbank
It is so difficult to get an answer from any quitter, and when you do and you counter it with facts, they do exactly what this bloke did. Or agree with you, then spout the same rubbish to someone more gullible.
It's why I find it impossible not to call most of them stupid.
More or less every conversation I have had with any Leave voter who is still convinced we ought to crash out of the EU goes this way.
If you sat any of them down with a piece of paper and a pen and gave them an hour to list all the tangible benefits of Brexit, you'd be given a blank sheet of paper.
I am not sure leavers are obliged to demonstrate reason or any kind of logic.
It is valid in my view that they, or any of us, are motivated by emotion.
Maybe the issue is when those motivated by emotion attempt to suggest they are motivated by reason, because at that point they're open to challenge and that is the point where they struggle with reality.
If brexiters adopted what is largely the 'Chippy Convention' and simply said 'I don't effing like it and that's that' they would at least be honest which I actually think is valid too.
Is there any point in reasoned argument? The emotional triumphed in the referendum and what they should do is take responsibility for that and deal with the practicalities.
They can't of course, but until the result of what they have done hits them viscerally they won't shift.
The lie is probably wrapped up in the notion that brexiters knew what they were voting for in a reasoned sense, they knew in an emotional sense.
In my opinion those emotions were in the negative realm of hatred, but the whole of the UK is obliged to go along with that expression of hatred, and in my case, emotionally, I hate having to do it.
I think I am going to write this phenomenon up as a disease, call it "southbankitis" and get it peer-reviewed.
To be fair, @stonemuse does not suffer from it. Neither does Dippenhall whom I won't tag as he has obviously given up on the thread. But that itself is significant. Dippenhall's argument for Brexit was largely trade based (as I think is stonemuse'). He seemed convinced that we would negotiate bigger and better trade deals, which would make the country richer, and thus benefit the population as a whole. That he no longer comes on here to demonstrate how that is going, 3 years since Cameron took the country down this path, is telling.
What I find rather sinister is the Sun and the Express writing editorials which fulminate against the very idea of a new vote arguing that it will 'unleash violent forces" in British society. It is absurd, because it pre-supposes that remain would win, in which case that is simply the will of the people. It is sinister because it actually gives carte blanche to those who suffer from the virulent form of the disease "southbankitis aggressivitis" to give vent to their aggression. You find them on here too. The ones whose only contribution to the discussion is "Fuck the EU"
Unfortunately I never rated Dippy's contributions since his usual response to any kind of financial projections that indicated anything other than uplit sunlands of unicorns post-Brexit was to dismiss it as having the same gravity as the flapping of the wings of a butterfly in Timbuktu.
I believe most of the people who voted to leave did so to make some point about the way they feel disrespected or forgotten by the establishment.
Asking them to justify their decision is like asking someone who just sprayed graffiti over a wall what he has achieved. Or asking the 2011 London rioters exactly what was the point of burning down the factories in Croydon.
A similar thing is happening in France with the yellow jackets at the moment.
In the end, they have all achieved something because they have been listened to. I just wish there was some other way to make yourself heard without vandalising property or breaking up hard-won alliances and peace treaties!
I think I am going to write this phenomenon up as a disease, call it "southbankitis" and get it peer-reviewed.
To be fair, @stonemuse does not suffer from it. Neither does Dippenhall whom I won't tag as he has obviously given up on the thread. But that itself is significant. Dippenhall's argument for Brexit was largely trade based (as I think is stonemuse'). He seemed convinced that we would negotiate bigger and better trade deals, which would make the country richer, and thus benefit the population as a whole. That he no longer comes on here to demonstrate how that is going, 3 years since Cameron took the country down this path, is telling.
What I find rather sinister is the Sun and the Express writing editorials which fulminate against the very idea of a new vote arguing that it will 'unleash violent forces" in British society. It is absurd, because it pre-supposes that remain would win, in which case that is simply the will of the people. It is sinister because it actually gives carte blanche to those who suffer from the virulent form of the disease "southbankitis aggressivitis" to give vent to their aggression. You find them on here too. The ones whose only contribution to the discussion is "Fuck the EU"
Yet it is just those media organs and individuals (across t'internet) who decry warnings about the potential for dissident terrorists to make use of the opportunities provided by Brexit, and the (I believe) inevitable infrastructure it will require if Northern Ireland is outside the Single Market and Customs Union, as scare-mongering....
Unfortunately I never rated Dippy's contributions since his usual response to any kind of financial projections that indicated anything other than uplit sunlands of unicorns post-Brexit was to dismiss it as having the same gravity as the flapping of the wings of a butterfly in Timbuktu.
Agreed - the continual narrative of "nobody knows what will happen" from pseudo-intellectual Brexiters, as a defence for their repeated mantra of "project fear", loses any vestige of credibility as soon as they start making their own predictions. As I have pointed out to Southbank.
This of course mainly applies to finance/economy; the impact on culture, science, education, cross border policing, travel, defence and I am sure other fields I have not thought of, is also relevant to many people.
I believe most of the people who voted to leave did so to make some point about the way they feel disrespected or forgotten by the establishment.
Asking them to justify their decision is like asking someone who just sprayed graffiti over a wall what he has achieved. Or asking the 2011 London rioters exactly what was the point of burning down the factories in Croydon.
A similar thing is happening in France with the yellow jackets at the moment.
In the end, they have all achieved something because they have been listened to. I just wish there was some other way to make yourself heard without vandalising property or breaking up hard-won alliances and peace treaties!
Have they really been "listened to"? If so, what was it they were saying? I am trying to listen to @southbank, and @blackpool72 but neither of them want to answer me. As a reminder my simple and politely phrased question was "How do you expect your own personal life to improve as a result of Brexit"?
Your argument is dangerous anyway. In 1989 Greenwich Council decided to ignore and treat with contempt the 1,000 of us who packed into Woolwich Town Hall. A lot of us walked out in disgust. Quite a few felt like going out and smashing some windows. Instead we formed the Valley Party and did things properly. We argued our case carefully, and a whole load of people who didn't even care about Charlton as a football club, voted for us. And the rest is history . That was a listening process.
I had previously mentioned that some comparisons are being made (in Ireland/among Irish people) between Brexit and the negotiations that ended the War of Independence in Ireland.
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
My fear of any new Labour government is that they will be incompetent and that they won't have what it takes to get us out of this mess. My fears of any continuance of the Tories in government is that not only are they incompetent, we have seen that, but that there are a good number of them (particularly in the Eurosceptic wing of the party) who are selfishly-malevolent. It is these people who want to push Brexit precisely because they want to roll back the rights of ordinary people that I want to ensure are kept as far away from government as possible.
What a mess.
Really ? Can there ever have been a more incompetent government than this one .
Homelessness is up hugely , life expectancy is down , the HS2 scheme cost is projected to double in cost , the Health service is creaking , social care is in utter disarray , government ministers are resigning at an unprecedented rate , brexit has been handled appallingly ........ need I go one ?
It baffles me how people can look at this shower of shit and conclude that the primary concern is the competency of a potential Labour government
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
The 2012 London Olympics is a distant memory, when the whole nation's atmosphere was so great and where everyone was just completely super proud of itself and all of our athletes, such as Mo Farrah and Jessica Ennis. It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
My fear of any new Labour government is that they will be incompetent and that they won't have what it takes to get us out of this mess. My fears of any continuance of the Tories in government is that not only are they incompetent, we have seen that, but that there are a good number of them (particularly in the Eurosceptic wing of the party) who are selfishly-malevolent. It is these people who want to push Brexit precisely because they want to roll back the rights of ordinary people that I want to ensure are kept as far away from government as possible.
What a mess.
Really ? Can there ever have been a more incompetent government than this one .
Homelessness is up hugely , life expectancy is down , the HS2 scheme cost is projected to double in cost , the Health service is creaking , social care is in utter disarray , government ministers are resigning at an unprecedented rate , brexit has been handled appallingly ........ need I go one ?
It baffles me how people can look at this shower of shit and conclude that the primary concern is the competency of a potential Labour government
Jo, if you think that my primary concern is the competency of a potential Labour government then you haven't understood what I've said. Perhaps I need to make it a little clearer: I am with you 100% that the current Tory government is completely incompetent - I would like them out; I don't hold out a lot of hope for Labour because I think the schisms in the party mean that they have a restricted talent pool to call on. That said, I do believe they would be better from the perspective that most of their hearts are probably in the right place. I do however believe that the government that forces Brexit upon us (or who does not) could face years in the political wilderness. If that is a Labour government, we could potentially see the Tories in power for ten more years. As bad as it may seem, I am prepared to trade off 4 more months of Tory government now, for ten Tory free years a little later down the line.
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
Thank you for a serious, sensible answer to a facetious post.
Targeting immigrant communities would, of course, be abhorrent. But also self-defeating. Because it would give the lie to the frequently-claimed assertion "I didn't vote Leave because of immigration".
I also wonder where these neanderthals (with apologies to Leave voters who don't see themselves as neanderthal and to neanderthals who would have preferred to dissociate themselves from Farage) will choose to find enclaves of EU migrants. Which part(s) of the country comprises majority EU immigrants?
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
The 2012 London Olympics is a distant memory, when the whole nation's atmosphere was so great and where everyone was just completely super proud of itself and all of our athletes, such as Mo Farrah and Jessica Ennis. It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves, expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
The 2012 Olympics cost us £8.77bn, well worth it to see Dressage and Synchronised swimming if you ask me. Much better than being spent on the NHS or other parts of our eroding country. Not to mentioned the much mentioned Olympic legacy that didn't exist, oh yes and selling our Olympic stadium to West Ham for fifty quid, that was worth it as well...but hey as long the nations atmosphere was great for a month then it was all worth it... do me a favour.
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
The 2012 London Olympics is a distant memory, when the whole nation's atmosphere was so great and where everyone was just completely super proud of itself and all of our athletes, such as Mo Farrah and Jessica Ennis. It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves, expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
The 2012 Olympics cost us £8.77bn, well worth it to see Dressage and Synchronised swimming if you ask me. Much better than being spent on the NHS or other parts of our eroding country. Not to mentioned the much mentioned Olympic legacy that didn't exist, oh yes and selling our Olympic stadium to West Ham for fifty quid, that was worth it as well...but hey as long the nations atmosphere was great for a month then it was all worth it... do me a favour.
So 2012 Olympics - bad, but the targeting of immigrants going forward - good
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
The 2012 London Olympics is a distant memory, when the whole nation's atmosphere was so great and where everyone was just completely super proud of itself and all of our athletes, such as Mo Farrah and Jessica Ennis. It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves, expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
The 2012 Olympics cost us £8.77bn, well worth it to see Dressage and Synchronised swimming if you ask me. Much better than being spent on the NHS or other parts of our eroding country. Not to mentioned the much mentioned Olympic legacy that didn't exist, oh yes and selling our Olympic stadium to West Ham for fifty quid, that was worth it as well...but hey as long the nations atmosphere was great for a month then it was all worth it... do me a favour.
So 2012 Olympics - bad, but the targeting of immigrants going forward - good
OK
That isn't what he said - is it?
On a related point, having to spend that sort of money to make everybody feel good and together as a nation says much more about what we have become.
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
The 2012 London Olympics is a distant memory, when the whole nation's atmosphere was so great and where everyone was just completely super proud of itself and all of our athletes, such as Mo Farrah and Jessica Ennis. It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves, expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
The 2012 Olympics cost us £8.77bn, well worth it to see Dressage and Synchronised swimming if you ask me. Much better than being spent on the NHS or other parts of our eroding country. Not to mentioned the much mentioned Olympic legacy that didn't exist, oh yes and selling our Olympic stadium to West Ham for fifty quid, that was worth it as well...but hey as long the nations atmosphere was great for a month then it was all worth it... do me a favour.
So 2012 Olympics - bad, but the targeting of immigrants going forward - good
Can anyone advise where to go to watch the civil unrest unfold?
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
I would worry that if there is unrest it might target immigrant communities, especially with the media stirring it up. Hopefully there won't be any trouble but there are some very angry people out there, even if they can't coherently explain why.
The 2012 London Olympics is a distant memory, when the whole nation's atmosphere was so great and where everyone was just completely super proud of itself and all of our athletes, such as Mo Farrah and Jessica Ennis. It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves, expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
The 2012 Olympics cost us £8.77bn, well worth it to see Dressage and Synchronised swimming if you ask me. Much better than being spent on the NHS or other parts of our eroding country. Not to mentioned the much mentioned Olympic legacy that didn't exist, oh yes and selling our Olympic stadium to West Ham for fifty quid, that was worth it as well...but hey as long the nations atmosphere was great for a month then it was all worth it... do me a favour.
So 2012 Olympics - bad, but the targeting of immigrants going forward - good
Comments
It's why I find it impossible not to call most of them stupid.
If you sat any of them down with a piece of paper and a pen and gave them an hour to list all the tangible benefits of Brexit, you'd be given a blank sheet of paper.
It is valid in my view that they, or any of us, are motivated by emotion.
Maybe the issue is when those motivated by emotion attempt to suggest they are motivated by reason, because at that point they're open to challenge and that is the point where they struggle with reality.
If brexiters adopted what is largely the 'Chippy Convention' and simply said 'I don't effing like it and that's that' they would at least be honest which I actually think is valid too.
Is there any point in reasoned argument? The emotional triumphed in the referendum and what they should do is take responsibility for that and deal with the practicalities.
They can't of course, but until the result of what they have done hits them viscerally they won't shift.
The lie is probably wrapped up in the notion that brexiters knew what they were voting for in a reasoned sense, they knew in an emotional sense.
In my opinion those emotions were in the negative realm of hatred, but the whole of the UK is obliged to go along with that expression of hatred, and in my case, emotionally, I hate having to do it.
To be fair, @stonemuse does not suffer from it. Neither does Dippenhall whom I won't tag as he has obviously given up on the thread. But that itself is significant. Dippenhall's argument for Brexit was largely trade based (as I think is stonemuse'). He seemed convinced that we would negotiate bigger and better trade deals, which would make the country richer, and thus benefit the population as a whole. That he no longer comes on here to demonstrate how that is going, 3 years since Cameron took the country down this path, is telling.
What I find rather sinister is the Sun and the Express writing editorials which fulminate against the very idea of a new vote arguing that it will 'unleash violent forces" in British society. It is absurd, because it pre-supposes that remain would win, in which case that is simply the will of the people. It is sinister because it actually gives carte blanche to those who suffer from the virulent form of the disease "southbankitis aggressivitis" to give vent to their aggression. You find them on here too. The ones whose only contribution to the discussion is "Fuck the EU"
Asking them to justify their decision is like asking someone who just sprayed graffiti over a wall what he has achieved. Or asking the 2011 London rioters exactly what was the point of burning down the factories in Croydon.
A similar thing is happening in France with the yellow jackets at the moment.
In the end, they have all achieved something because they have been listened to. I just wish there was some other way to make yourself heard without vandalising property or breaking up hard-won alliances and peace treaties!
This of course mainly applies to finance/economy; the impact on culture, science, education, cross border policing, travel, defence and I am sure other fields I have not thought of, is also relevant to many people.
Your argument is dangerous anyway. In 1989 Greenwich Council decided to ignore and treat with contempt the 1,000 of us who packed into Woolwich Town Hall. A lot of us walked out in disgust. Quite a few felt like going out and smashing some windows. Instead we formed the Valley Party and did things properly. We argued our case carefully, and a whole load of people who didn't even care about Charlton as a football club, voted for us. And the rest is history . That was a listening process.
Here's a Twitter thread along the same lines...
https://twitter.com/SNevin1/status/1070475402186055680
The frothing aneurysm Nigel Farage (“I will... don khaki, pick up a rifle and head for the front lines”) seems to be suggesting that some kind of violent disobedience will be enacted by hurt quitters whose will could be usurped by testing that will, democratically, by means of a People's Vote. But it leaves a number of questions outstanding. Like, where will this happen? Who will be taking part? To what end? And, the big one, against whom will this violence be aimed? Who will be on the receiving end?
I am interested in how Farage - and his fellow quitters - intend for this civil unrest to be played out. Who do they intend to fight? The British police? The British Army? Remain campaigners?
And, most interesting of all, I want to know what's going to be on their banners and in their chants. I am particularly interested in the one that will go: "What do we want?" "DEMOCRACY!" "When do we want it?" "ONLY IN 2016 AND CERTAINLY NOT SUBSEQUENTLY!"
Does anyone know where this civil unrest is likely to take place? And is there a stream?
Homelessness is up hugely , life expectancy is down , the HS2 scheme cost is projected to double in cost , the Health service is creaking , social care is in utter disarray , government ministers are resigning at an unprecedented rate , brexit has been handled appallingly ........ need I go one ?
It baffles me how people can look at this shower of shit and conclude that the primary concern is the competency of a potential Labour government
It's all too depressing to see where we now find ourselves expecting civil unrest from the far right in targeting immigrants
Targeting immigrant communities would, of course, be abhorrent. But also self-defeating. Because it would give the lie to the frequently-claimed assertion "I didn't vote Leave because of immigration".
I also wonder where these neanderthals (with apologies to Leave voters who don't see themselves as neanderthal and to neanderthals who would have preferred to dissociate themselves from Farage) will choose to find enclaves of EU migrants. Which part(s) of the country comprises majority EU immigrants?
OK
On a related point, having to spend that sort of money to make everybody feel good and together as a nation says much more about what we have become.