There is a lot of talk about the will of the 17.4 million, but the evidence is pointing to the fact that there is no longer that number which would seem logical given all the nonsense we have had to put up with since the result. Anyway, if there is, let's test it with a vote and people can shut up and get on with what the vote tells us after that!
There is a lot of talk about the will of the 17.4 million, but the evidence is pointing to the fact that there is no longer that number which would seem logical given all the nonsense we have had to put up with since the result. Anyway, if there is, let's test it with a vote and people can shut up and get on with what the vote tells us after that!
There was never a will of the people in the first place. The result was statistically speaking a dead heat, a third of the electorate didn't participate, the advisory nature of the referendum has been completely ignored, and the referendum was contaminated with wide-ranging incidents of electoral fraud, criminal activity, foreign interference, and a democratically elected representative was murdered in cold blood in an attempt to intimidate voters and campaigners (and despite the consensus amongst both sides to suspend campaigning in the aftermath of the murder, the Leave campaigns continued their illegal social media campaign that has been widely attributed to surge in Leave votes).
The whole exercise and the events following it is one of the saddest and most painful chapters in British political history.
Latest from BBC is that it could be there are only 25 letters sent to the 1922 Cttee. A failure to reach the 48 would be a massive blow to ERG and its supporters.
So that's step 1: it appears that May stays put and the ERG are exposed.
The EU27 need to agree the WA and then it goes to the Commons. We can be sure that political journalists will count the numbers... which way will the DUP and ERG vote? In favour, abstain or against?
And the Tory remainers of course.
At this stage, some still want to blame Corbyn and Labour. That's understandable but it doesn't change the arithmetic for the vote. The fact is that Labour has 255 MPs of which a handful might support May. Clearly the SNP and Lib Dems will vote against.
Should the bill be defeated, that opens up the possibility of a "People's vote". So the question is whether the DUP and ERG will risk no Brexit at all by voting down the bill?
Both groups have been very vocal but they know that there's zero chance of changing the WA.
End of the day Brexit has been a huge overhead taking up so much time when there are far more important issues to address. Education and training, the availability of finance and boosting productivity with technology and innovation are four areas which need to be addressed.
Edit - The latest polls show that the Tories have lost 10% of the Leave vote of which 6% has moved back to UKIP and 4% has gone to Labour. This in turn delivers an overall Labour lead. Only one poll so we will have to wait and see if this is the start of a trend.
The CBI's response to Theresa May gives the lie to Southbank's assertion that disruptive capitalism will benefit the UK post Brexit, pointing out that companies are wasting billions preparing for Brexit outcomes and billions in investment is leaving the country. What an utter waste of time and money.
It's hard to see how any of this (or almost any deal) will get through parliament, I think the vote will be close, but no where near close enough.
Parliament is as split as the country. The brexiteers will vote against anything other than a hard brexit. The stayers will vote against anything that isn't EU lite and Corbyn will instruct Labour to vote against almost anything the Tories come up with whether he's read the documents or not.
This will rumble on, but could result in a no deal brexit which is probably the worst of the lot.
The next general election could be very interesting.
It's all just a massive distraction against other things as a country we could be doing/sorting out.
It's hard to see how any of this (or almost any deal) will get through parliament, I think the vote will be close, but no where near close enough.
Parliament is as split as the country. The brexiteers will vote against anything other than a hard brexit. The stayers will vote against anything that isn't EU lite and Corbyn will instruct Labour to vote against almost anything the Tories come up with whether he's read the documents or not.
This will rumble on, but could result in a no deal brexit which is probably the worst of the lot.
The next general election could be very interesting.
It's all just a massive distraction against other things as a country we could be doing/sorting out.
I think a lot of Brexit supporting Tory MP’s are not convinced enough to vote this down in fear of a no deal Brexit. That won’t include the hard core nutters but when push comes to shove I can see fewer than 15 actually voting it down. Add the uncertainty of the DUP and a proportion of labour MP’s plus abstentions and I think this will be run very close.
Having said that. If anyone does abstain on this I think they should be strung up by the buster browns.
The CBI's response to Theresa May gives the lie to Southbank's assertion that disruptive capitalism will benefit the UK post Brexit, pointing out that companies are wasting billions preparing for Brexit outcomes and billions in investment is leaving the country. What an utter waste of time and money.
I think we should dissolve Parliament and put the CBI in charge. After all they are always for the best interests of the common people and not representative of the rich and powerful.
The CBI's response to Theresa May gives the lie to Southbank's assertion that disruptive capitalism will benefit the UK post Brexit, pointing out that companies are wasting billions preparing for Brexit outcomes and billions in investment is leaving the country. What an utter waste of time and money.
I think we should dissolve Parliament and put the CBI in charge. After all they are always for the best interests of the common people and not representative of the rich and powerful.
It's hard to see how any of this (or almost any deal) will get through parliament, I think the vote will be close, but no where near close enough.
Parliament is as split as the country. The brexiteers will vote against anything other than a hard brexit. The stayers will vote against anything that isn't EU lite and Corbyn will instruct Labour to vote against almost anything the Tories come up with whether he's read the documents or not.
This will rumble on, but could result in a no deal brexit which is probably the worst of the lot.
The next general election could be very interesting.
It's all just a massive distraction against other things as a country we could be doing/sorting out.
I think a lot of Brexit supporting Tory MP’s are not convinced enough to vote this down in fear of a no deal Brexit. That won’t include the hard core nutters but when push comes to shove I can see fewer than 15 actually voting it down. Add the uncertainty of the DUP and a proportion of labour MP’s plus abstentions and I think this will be run very close.
Having said that. If anyone does abstain on this I think they should be strung up by the buster browns.
This will be the question. Remainers from all parties will be meeting now and they will need to know they can stop a hard Brexit. Time won't be an issue as they already know that the EU will put things on hold if there is a vote! The issue is May will try to scare remainers into voting for her plan and it is going to be how well she does that.
It's hard to see how any of this (or almost any deal) will get through parliament, I think the vote will be close, but no where near close enough.
Parliament is as split as the country. The brexiteers will vote against anything other than a hard brexit. The stayers will vote against anything that isn't EU lite and Corbyn will instruct Labour to vote against almost anything the Tories come up with whether he's read the documents or not.
This will rumble on, but could result in a no deal brexit which is probably the worst of the lot.
The next general election could be very interesting.
It's all just a massive distraction against other things as a country we could be doing/sorting out.
I think a lot of Brexit supporting Tory MP’s are not convinced enough to vote this down in fear of a no deal Brexit. That won’t include the hard core nutters but when push comes to shove I can see fewer than 15 actually voting it down. Add the uncertainty of the DUP and a proportion of labour MP’s plus abstentions and I think this will be run very close.
Having said that. If anyone does abstain on this I think they should be strung up by the buster browns.
This will be the question. Remainers from all parties will be meeting now and they will need to know they can stop a hard Brexit. Time won't be an issue as they already know that the EU will put things on hold if there is a vote! The issue is May will try to scare remainers into voting for her plan and it is going to be how well she does that.
I know that the EU27 and the Commission have made sympathetic noises, but things may be less straightforward than any of us might imagine.
For one thing, should the UK still be a member of the EU beyond 29 March, there is the EU Parliament election to consider. And, as matters drag on towards 2020, there will be budgetary discussions (including things like expenditure on CAP/CFP and whether existing rebates should be amended), that would have been had in any event.
I would not expect anything to be put on hold, unless there is a reasonable expectation that there would be some form of significant change to UK policy as a result - and the polling numbers may not, at the moment, support such an expectation.
Looks like the real reason Boris is a bitter Brexiter is because the Germans diddled him in 2014 by selling him three water cannons worth £11,000 for £322,000.
It's hard to see how any of this (or almost any deal) will get through parliament, I think the vote will be close, but no where near close enough.
Parliament is as split as the country. The brexiteers will vote against anything other than a hard brexit. The stayers will vote against anything that isn't EU lite and Corbyn will instruct Labour to vote against almost anything the Tories come up with whether he's read the documents or not.
This will rumble on, but could result in a no deal brexit which is probably the worst of the lot.
The next general election could be very interesting.
It's all just a massive distraction against other things as a country we could be doing/sorting out.
I think a lot of Brexit supporting Tory MP’s are not convinced enough to vote this down in fear of a no deal Brexit. That won’t include the hard core nutters but when push comes to shove I can see fewer than 15 actually voting it down. Add the uncertainty of the DUP and a proportion of labour MP’s plus abstentions and I think this will be run very close.
Having said that. If anyone does abstain on this I think they should be strung up by the buster browns.
This will be the question. Remainers from all parties will be meeting now and they will need to know they can stop a hard Brexit. Time won't be an issue as they already know that the EU will put things on hold if there is a vote! The issue is May will try to scare remainers into voting for her plan and it is going to be how well she does that.
How do they know that? have the EU confirmed they would but A50 on ice?
A they have spoken to them and B there have been hints! Remember we are talking about stopping Brexit here, or at least a decent opportunity of doing so.
A they have spoken to them and B there have been hints! Remember we are talking about stopping Brexit here, or at least a decent opportunity of doing so.
Brexit can't be stopped, the Dear Leader told us that.
I think that has been clarified - he has said he was talking in the context of the Labour party in that the Labour Party could not stop Brexit.
Of course, that must be what the Dear Leader meant even though that wasn't what he said.
We all love the Dear Leader, the Dear Leader can not be wrong. Long Live the Dear Leader.
Now now, he's the democratically elected leader of the labour party. The labour party comes first, unless that entails ever getting rid of corbyn, corbyn MUST be leader. For the good of the party.
BRB gonna attend the 2 min hate when we yell at photos of Bojo and the mogg and flags of israel
When you two popinjays are quite finished, have you not considered that the likeliest route to cancelling Brexit will be voting down this deal?
See, you don't get to use words like that when you went to a comprehensive, only public schoolboys like Rees-Mogg or Boris Johnson would ever use "popinjays".
This short thread that Sunny links to spells out, in fairly specific terms, Labour's current position in Brexit. It brings up two important questions:
1. Why can't the Conservative party settle on a single, all-encompassing policy that offers all wings of the party ownership of the policy in the way this thread demonstrates that Labour seems to have been able to?
2. Why can't Labour properly, clearly, simply and unambiguously articulate their policy in the way this person has?
This short thread that Sunny links to spells out, in fairly specific terms, Labour's current position in Brexit. It brings up two important questions:
1. Why can't the Conservative party settle on a single, all-encompassing policy that offers all wings of the party ownership of the policy in the way this thread demonstrates that Labour seems to have been able to?
2. Why can't Labour properly, clearly, simply and unambiguously articulate their policy in the way this person has?
Comments
https://twitter.com/BorderIrish/status/1064441340870754304
The whole exercise and the events following it is one of the saddest and most painful chapters in British political history.
The EU27 need to agree the WA and then it goes to the Commons. We can be sure that political journalists will count the numbers... which way will the DUP and ERG vote? In favour, abstain or against?
And the Tory remainers of course.
At this stage, some still want to blame Corbyn and Labour. That's understandable but it doesn't change the arithmetic for the vote. The fact is that Labour has 255 MPs of which a handful might support May. Clearly the SNP and Lib Dems will vote against.
Should the bill be defeated, that opens up the possibility of a "People's vote". So the question is whether the DUP and ERG will risk no Brexit at all by voting down the bill?
Both groups have been very vocal but they know that there's zero chance of changing the WA.
End of the day Brexit has been a huge overhead taking up so much time when there are far more important issues to address. Education and training, the availability of finance and boosting productivity with technology and innovation are four areas which need to be addressed.
Edit - The latest polls show that the Tories have lost 10% of the Leave vote of which 6% has moved back to UKIP and 4% has gone to Labour. This in turn delivers an overall Labour lead. Only one poll so we will have to wait and see if this is the start of a trend.
Parliament is as split as the country. The brexiteers will vote against anything other than a hard brexit. The stayers will vote against anything that isn't EU lite and Corbyn will instruct Labour to vote against almost anything the Tories come up with whether he's read the documents or not.
This will rumble on, but could result in a no deal brexit which is probably the worst of the lot.
The next general election could be very interesting.
It's all just a massive distraction against other things as a country we could be doing/sorting out.
Having said that. If anyone does abstain on this I think they should be strung up by the buster browns.
Interesting insight into the manoeuvres in the Tory party - if you can get access past their 'pay wall'):
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/farewell-theresa-may-rivals-sharpen-the-knife-thlpk9s9s
For one thing, should the UK still be a member of the EU beyond 29 March, there is the EU Parliament election to consider. And, as matters drag on towards 2020, there will be budgetary discussions (including things like expenditure on CAP/CFP and whether existing rebates should be amended), that would have been had in any event.
I would not expect anything to be put on hold, unless there is a reasonable expectation that there would be some form of significant change to UK policy as a result - and the polling numbers may not, at the moment, support such an expectation.
We all love the Dear Leader, the Dear Leader can not be wrong. Long Live the Dear Leader.
BRB gonna attend the 2 min hate when we yell at photos of Bojo and the mogg and flags of israel
Dat Deus Incrementum
1. Why can't the Conservative party settle on a single, all-encompassing policy that offers all wings of the party ownership of the policy in the way this thread demonstrates that Labour seems to have been able to?
2. Why can't Labour properly, clearly, simply and unambiguously articulate their policy in the way this person has?