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The influence of the EU on Britain.

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  • Chaz Hill said:

    Chaz Hill said:

    A lot of common sense there from Ken Clarke. In short he said she might just as well tell the hard Brexiteers to ‘do one’ and go for a softer Brexit. She would stand more chance of getting that through a parliamentary vote.

    Ken Clarke just repeated this message on C4 News. Ideal man for new Brexit Secretary 😊

    Said Mogg and his nationalists are a waste of time as is Corbyn and his followers.
    Ken Clarke. Like my rant the other week about Fred Dinage.....He's 78 years old !!. Just fecking retire !! What is it with old people & working ??
  • Stig said:

    No deal will be funnier than The Infadel was.
    image
    (A 'comedy' film by David Badiel. A total box office flop.)
  • Stig said:

    No deal will be funnier than The Infadel was.
    image
    (A 'comedy' film by David Badiel. A total box office flop.)
    His act “My family (not the sitcom)” was brilliant though.
  • Stig said:

    No deal will be funnier than The Infadel was.
    image
    (A 'comedy' film by David Badiel. A total box office flop.)
    Thanks. I did know that. It was the no deal being funny that I couldn't comprehend.

  • Etiolated is a new word for me. I'm gonna try and use it all day.
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  • bobmunro said:

    Quote from 'Shooters Hill Addick'
    With the exception of Rees-Mogg and equally lunatic brexiters. A no deal Brexit is universally condemned

    Read this para from yesterdays 'left wing' Daily Mirror
    Letters Page:
    'Millions of men died to give this countrt freedom and democracy to rule ourselves.
    so why can't MPs and the public get behind the PM and get us out of one
    of the most corrupt organistions in the world, ie the EU'

    Serious food for thought!

    Serious food for thought? Bollox.

    Millions of men from many nations fought and won against tyranny and facism. The founding fathers of the EU had as one of their overiding ambitions to avoid a repeat of that, and for 73 years Europe, certainly western Europe, has been at peace.

    Except in 1982. The Falklands conflict was the only deployment of exclusively EU millitary. The French assisted the Argentines and 100sof British soldiers died as a result.
    The Irish maintained trading relations with the enemy.
    As others have said, your statement about the French is incorrect. Your ire might be more reasonably directed against the stance taken by Israel, https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/israel-sold-weapons-to-argentina-at-height-of-falklands-war-reve/, and the Israeli decision to provide support to the Argentinian Junta during the conflict probably did cost British lives.

    With regard to Ireland, as a member of the EEC, which implemented wide-ranging sanctions against Argentina, blocking all Argentinian exports to the EEC, for invading the Falklands (https://nytimes.com/1982/04/11/world/europeans-ending-argentine-imports-in-falkland-crisis.html) in contrast to the USA's more limited reaction (https://nytimes.com/1982/05/01/us/us-sides-with-britian-falkland-crisis-ordering-sanctions-against-argentines.html), any ongoing trade will only have been what the sanctions regime will have allowed.

    And, as someone who cares passionately about the Falkland Islands, not doubt you support their wish for the UK to remain in the Single Market (https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-falklands-islands-single-market-trade-eu-fishing-loligo-squid-government-a8347696.html).
    Israel isn't in the EU
    I point the finger at the government of the day who sleepwalked into that conflict while at the same time was was making plans to reduce our navy’s size and ability to defend our dependencies. A convenient truth that gets forgotten when we had such fine win that killed hundreds, maimed hundreds and caused and everlasting bad feelings on many fronts.
    Every prime minister seems to want to be remembered by a conflict, I wonder what T May’s will be?
    Really? Funny, I point the finger at the fascist imperialist argentine government that were also busy sheltering nazis.

    Yes really. You don’t have fight a war when you can avoid one. As what happened 4 years previously when David Owen sent 4 ships south as a show of force. If you may remember Lord Carrington resigned because it happened on his watch while he did nothing but allowing mixed messages go out.
    I guess you point the finger of the holocaust and ww2 at Neville chamberlain and appeasement then?
  • bobmunro said:

    Quote from 'Shooters Hill Addick'
    With the exception of Rees-Mogg and equally lunatic brexiters. A no deal Brexit is universally condemned

    Read this para from yesterdays 'left wing' Daily Mirror
    Letters Page:
    'Millions of men died to give this countrt freedom and democracy to rule ourselves.
    so why can't MPs and the public get behind the PM and get us out of one
    of the most corrupt organistions in the world, ie the EU'

    Serious food for thought!

    Serious food for thought? Bollox.

    Millions of men from many nations fought and won against tyranny and facism. The founding fathers of the EU had as one of their overiding ambitions to avoid a repeat of that, and for 73 years Europe, certainly western Europe, has been at peace.

    Except in 1982. The Falklands conflict was the only deployment of exclusively EU millitary. The French assisted the Argentines and 100sof British soldiers died as a result.
    The Irish maintained trading relations with the enemy.
    As others have said, your statement about the French is incorrect. Your ire might be more reasonably directed against the stance taken by Israel, https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/israel-sold-weapons-to-argentina-at-height-of-falklands-war-reve/, and the Israeli decision to provide support to the Argentinian Junta during the conflict probably did cost British lives.

    With regard to Ireland, as a member of the EEC, which implemented wide-ranging sanctions against Argentina, blocking all Argentinian exports to the EEC, for invading the Falklands (https://nytimes.com/1982/04/11/world/europeans-ending-argentine-imports-in-falkland-crisis.html) in contrast to the USA's more limited reaction (https://nytimes.com/1982/05/01/us/us-sides-with-britian-falkland-crisis-ordering-sanctions-against-argentines.html), any ongoing trade will only have been what the sanctions regime will have allowed.

    And, as someone who cares passionately about the Falkland Islands, not doubt you support their wish for the UK to remain in the Single Market (https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-falklands-islands-single-market-trade-eu-fishing-loligo-squid-government-a8347696.html).
    Israel isn't in the EU
    I point the finger at the government of the day who sleepwalked into that conflict while at the same time was was making plans to reduce our navy’s size and ability to defend our dependencies. A convenient truth that gets forgotten when we had such fine win that killed hundreds, maimed hundreds and caused and everlasting bad feelings on many fronts.
    Every prime minister seems to want to be remembered by a conflict, I wonder what T May’s will be?
    Really? Funny, I point the finger at the fascist imperialist argentine government that were also busy sheltering nazis.

    Yes really. You don’t have fight a war when you can avoid one. As what happened 4 years previously when David Owen sent 4 ships south as a show of force. If you may remember Lord Carrington resigned because it happened on his watch while he did nothing but allowing mixed messages go out.
    I guess you point the finger of the holocaust and ww2 at Neville chamberlain and appeasement then?
    No because Chamberlain was stalling for time. Totally different.
  • edited November 2018
    Lampreys are fantastic. They move rocks about with their mouths, spawn and then die. A fitting end for the etiolated one I think (but he's already done the spawning we can skip that bit).
  • Feeble eel
  • I rarely look at this thread but am glad I have found a new insult.

  • bobmunro said:

    Quote from 'Shooters Hill Addick'
    With the exception of Rees-Mogg and equally lunatic brexiters. A no deal Brexit is universally condemned

    Read this para from yesterdays 'left wing' Daily Mirror
    Letters Page:
    'Millions of men died to give this countrt freedom and democracy to rule ourselves.
    so why can't MPs and the public get behind the PM and get us out of one
    of the most corrupt organistions in the world, ie the EU'

    Serious food for thought!

    Serious food for thought? Bollox.

    Millions of men from many nations fought and won against tyranny and facism. The founding fathers of the EU had as one of their overiding ambitions to avoid a repeat of that, and for 73 years Europe, certainly western Europe, has been at peace.

    Except in 1982. The Falklands conflict was the only deployment of exclusively EU millitary. The French assisted the Argentines and 100sof British soldiers died as a result.
    The Irish maintained trading relations with the enemy.
    As others have said, your statement about the French is incorrect. Your ire might be more reasonably directed against the stance taken by Israel, https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/israel-sold-weapons-to-argentina-at-height-of-falklands-war-reve/, and the Israeli decision to provide support to the Argentinian Junta during the conflict probably did cost British lives.

    With regard to Ireland, as a member of the EEC, which implemented wide-ranging sanctions against Argentina, blocking all Argentinian exports to the EEC, for invading the Falklands (https://nytimes.com/1982/04/11/world/europeans-ending-argentine-imports-in-falkland-crisis.html) in contrast to the USA's more limited reaction (https://nytimes.com/1982/05/01/us/us-sides-with-britian-falkland-crisis-ordering-sanctions-against-argentines.html), any ongoing trade will only have been what the sanctions regime will have allowed.

    And, as someone who cares passionately about the Falkland Islands, not doubt you support their wish for the UK to remain in the Single Market (https://independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-falklands-islands-single-market-trade-eu-fishing-loligo-squid-government-a8347696.html).
    Israel isn't in the EU
    I point the finger at the government of the day who sleepwalked into that conflict while at the same time was was making plans to reduce our navy’s size and ability to defend our dependencies. A convenient truth that gets forgotten when we had such fine win that killed hundreds, maimed hundreds and caused and everlasting bad feelings on many fronts.
    Every prime minister seems to want to be remembered by a conflict, I wonder what T May’s will be?
    Really? Funny, I point the finger at the fascist imperialist argentine government that were also busy sheltering nazis.

    Yes really. You don’t have fight a war when you can avoid one. As what happened 4 years previously when David Owen sent 4 ships south as a show of force. If you may remember Lord Carrington resigned because it happened on his watch while he did nothing but allowing mixed messages go out.
    I guess you point the finger of the holocaust and ww2 at Neville chamberlain and appeasement then?
    Mate, I hate to look like Iam taking issue with you since I thoroughly enjoy your relevant contributions on the subject of this thread, (not to mention on cryptos) but if I may assume a couple of things, I think @charltonkeston and I are probably about as old as your Dad, and as such we probably remember the following key question which has never been answered:

    If the Falklands were of such strategic importance that we wheeled out the might of the entire Navy to defend it, how come before that we "defended" those strategic interests with the sum total of one trawler with a machine gun mounted on the front?

  • One for @micks1950 and his carefully marshalled reading of opinion polls and what they might indicate re next steps:

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  • Sybil Fawlty's "Brilliantine stick insect" also works pretty well.
  • Chaz Hill said:

    Chaz Hill said:

    A lot of common sense there from Ken Clarke. In short he said she might just as well tell the hard Brexiteers to ‘do one’ and go for a softer Brexit. She would stand more chance of getting that through a parliamentary vote.

    Ken Clarke just repeated this message on C4 News. Ideal man for new Brexit Secretary 😊

    Said Mogg and his nationalists are a waste of time as is Corbyn and his followers.
    Ken Clarke. Like my rant the other week about Fred Dinage.....He's 78 years old !!. Just fecking retire !! What is it with old people & working ??
    Well, in Trumps case you would certainly be correct.
  • Going to be an interesting day seeing that there are "reliable" claims that the 48-letters have been handed in as a vote of no confidence towards Theresa
  • Looks like Govey has been told to hang fire a bit by Uncle Rup who would, no doubt, rather have him go for the top job. Murdoch must be wetting himself at the thought of having even more control over the levers of power here, just like he has in the US.
  • edited November 2018
    There is one important question for me as a remainer. That is, would parliament stop a no deal Brexit if May takes this to the wire as it looks like she is doing or trying to do? If you believe the answer to that question is yes, events could be positive, as when the deal is rejected, parliament would have to force another vote or even kick Brexit into touch. However, if you do not believe Parliament will stop a no deal Brexit, or even think it may not be able to, it is probably best to support May's deal.

    Seeing as it is a ridiculous deal that is nothing to nobody, maybe now is the time for remainers of all parties to grow a pair and work out how no deal will be stopped.
  • edited November 2018

    One for @micks1950 and his carefully marshalled reading of opinion polls and what they might indicate re next steps:

    Thanks Prague

    The full results of this latest Yougov poll conducted for The People's Vote Campaign are here:

    https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/wywx6pr4gx/PVResults_181115_Snap_w.pdf

    While 'What UK Thinks'' Poll Tracker on the same question since the 2016 referendum (which includes this latest Yougov poll) are here:

    https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

    Let me make it clear if I could wake up tomorrow and find that Brexit was over and the UK remained in the EU I would be happy.

    What I have tried to do is introduce some caution into the idea that the outcome of another referendum would be clear cut and easy to organise,

    The 'What UK Thinks' Poll Tracker shows how volatile and close opinion has been since the 2016 vote, and it's an open question how the 46% vs 40% Remain/Leave in this latest poll (54% vs 46% excluding won't vote/don't know) would stand up during another referendum campaign - we might at best end up with another divisive just over vs just under 50% outcome either way.

    And even that is only if the practical issues I've also mentioned can be appropriately overcome; that in order for there to be another referendum a majority of MPs not only have pass another 'Referendum Act' but also to agree the question(s) that are to be put to the vote in that referendum (both the number of questions and exactly what they ask).

    But if there is another referendum I will both vote and campaign for a Remain outcome.
  • Gove not resigning
  • edited November 2018
    I think it is tactical - if May goes, he is well placed to take over from her with a foot in all camps. I didn't expect him to resign.
  • @micks1950

    Fair enough and unfortunately these two tweets, reflecting thoughtful European opinion, make most uncomfortable reading

This discussion has been closed.

Roland Out Forever!