As this has veered off topic and there is some concentration on Labour politicians, in case anybody needs reminding about the Tories I reproduce the article below from Northern Voices from 15/12/15. It is now a little outdated, but you might note the connection between the British Council and the Foreign and Commonwealth office, and who is the Foreign Secretary now. I doubt there is anything that is more guaranteed to get the backs up of English workers than hearing some upper middle-class Tory bastard telling them that they need to work harder.
Earlier this year at the Tory Party conference in Manchester, the multi-millionaire Health Secretary, Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt, claimed in a conference speech that low-paid workers lacked dignity and self respect and ought to graft like the Chinese "Who put in punishing hours" in a sweatshop. Needless to say, having been borne into a life of privilege, this former head boy of Charterhouse and student of Magdalen College Oxford, would know all about hard graft.
Jeremy Hunt's own career and advancement in life, is something that seems to have been shrouded in mystery. At the Tory Party conference, Hunt claimed that his father "worked as a manager" for the NHS. Given that his father, Sir Nicholas John Streynsham Hunt, was Admiral of the Fleet in his main career, this is something of an exaggeration. After retirement, Sir Nicholas like a lot of well-connected establishment figures, became a 'quangoista', joining various hospital boards. He then became Chairman of the South West Surrey District Health Authority during 1990 to 1995 and then Chairman of Nuffield Hospitals from 1996 to 2001. For most of this time, his niece, Virginia Bottomley, was the Secretary of State for Health in a Conservative government.
Until her retirement from open politics, Virginia Bottomley, had been the Conservative MP for South West Surrey. In 2005, her cousin Jeremy Hunt inherited her constituency (not quite Queen's Crawley) and stepped into her shoes becoming the new MP. Virginia was then ennobled and became Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone. She now lobbies on behalf of the private health sector and was a director of BUPA between 2007-2013.
During 1998-2001, Virginia Bottomley became Vice Chair of the British Council, a body that is linked to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and which promotes British cultural interests overseas. While she was at the British Council, Jeremy Hunt, became the monopoly supplier obtaining the catering contract for his company 'Hotcourses'. As the monopoly catering supplier for the British Council, Jeremy amassed the fortune that he is so proud of today.
After being elected to Parliament, Jeremy was appointed Minister for Media and Culture and was put in charge of adjudicating the News Corp bid for BSkyB. Jeremy had previously partnered News Corp in his educational supplies business. After being an MP for just seven years, Jeremy Hunt became Secretary of State for Health, a position that had been previously held by his cousin Virginia Bottomley.
Although he owes much of his success in life to the social class that he was born into and his social connections, the Prime Minister, David Cameron, says that it's not where you come from that really matters but where you are going. But career progress of this type, "the leg up", or some would say 'nepotism,' is something that is admired by Cameron in spite of his assertions about merit. Cameron's only job outside of politics, was when he worked for Carlton TV, a job he got by being given a leg up by his mother-in-law, Lady Annabel Astor.
We do not mean to throw any odious imputation upon the general character of either Virginia Bottomley or Jeremy Hunt, nor do we suggest that they have acted in any way illegally. However, it is intriguing how both their lives and careers have been so closely intertwined as Jeremy as followed in the footsteps of his older cousin in becoming Health Secretary and in inheriting her Surrey constituency. Nor should we be surprised at the antics of a nepotistic English ruling elite, the Tory Party, who work to defend established privilege and work for anyone with money or power.
As for working like the Chinese, Jeremy Hunt failed to mention in his speech to the Tory Party that in 2010, Apple's Foxconn plants in China issued contracts forcing workers to sign a pledge stating that they would not commit suicide due to workplace stress. Another cousin, is Tristam Hunt MP, the son of Lord Hunt.
Before we have the first person to say 'they're all at it', perhaps somebody can show how Corbyn has used his connections to amass wealth.
What amazes me is how the obvious is always missed. I know it isn't just obvious to me, but to most people, so why are politicians so unaware of it. During the referendum, we had the git Osborne telling us the disaster that would befall us the day after the referendum. That was ridiculous as was his other scare stories. The disaster was always going to come after we had left! Then we had leavers telling us how easy it was going to be - that was never going to be the case. I assume Southbank's tongue is firmly in his cheek when he implies this chaos is all some government anti-brexit conspiracy. The government is so useless, he gives them too much credit!
It was obvious Brexit would be extremely difficult because of one common sense fact I know I kept going on about prior to the referendum. If we came out of all this with a good deal, it would put the future of the EU at grave risk. It is simple, but the reason why nobody was going to bend over backwards to give us everything we want. If I understood that, why didn't more intelligent people than me. Why did I, and many others - I am not bigging myself up here, not feel threatened by Sadam Hussain at all when Blair, the Prime Minsiter FFS told us otherwise?
We should be asking these questions, and seeing these jokers for what they are. A bit of honesty from both sides would have enabled the British public to make informed choices. We got to the point where we saw one of the most crazy lies I have ever seen is any campaign. The NHS TV add and message on the bus. I think it was so ridiculous that most people didn't believe it - but nobody seems to ask what allowed the people that run our country to show how dishonest they are. The Remainer politicians did similar with project fear.
The truth about what is going on is that it is all a massive pile of dog poo. We need another referendum because of it. Otherwise the choice will be between two options I'm pretty sure the British people didn't want or choose.
I was going to press like on this until I read your last sentence.
As a leaver myself I knew what I was voting for, but I also understood the uncertainty around Brexit due to a big change this Country is making. I was going to exchange some money as I was going on holiday to Greece but waited after the referendum result as I thought leave would lose.
The NHS bus issue was a joke and the leave side kept banging on about immigration as the main issue when it was part of the issue, like many other things of being a EU member.
I want a trade with the EU but I know how tough the EU are trying to be because if they give us a easy deal then other Countries will certainly follow suit. What the EU doesn’t understand is they’re cutting their nose to spite their faces as the European companies would loose out if a no deal scenario happens. German car manufacturers are already crying out for a deal.
I fear of a no deal snenario but I strongly believe staying in the EU will be much worse for us. The UK is one of the biggest economies around the world and we’re attractive to trade with. The economy grew more this year than the EU has for starters!
A another referendum would put us in a much weaker position and it shows as un-democratic. The result was done no matter how pathetic both campaigns were, people made their minds up.If another referendum is certainly demanded why don’t we wait 5 years after we’ve left the EU then it will give us a clear view of things...because we’re still technically inside the EU!
Ken Livingstone - middle East envoy. Though that's not as silly as Tony Blair doing it
Development secretary, Kate Osamor.
Lets ignore that she has faced intense criticism after it emerged that she promoted her son in his House of Commons job, regardless of his conviction for having £2,500 of Class A drugs. Ms Osamor and her son Ishmael, 29, are living in social housing in Tottenham, north London - despite their earnings classing them ineligible by council guidelines.
Haringey Council documents from 2017 state that households earning in excess of £64,200 are not eligible to apply for a social housing property.
And it has been reported that 9,000 people are waiting for social housing in the borough - one of the poorest in Britain - and a further 3,000 are living in temporary accommodation due to the limited supply of properties.
Ms Osamor, a close ally of Jeremy Corbyn, is paid a salary of £77,379 plus expenses. Since being elected an MP in 2015 she has also benefitted from £13,000 of travel and accommodation on visits to countries including India and Nigeria.
Ken Livingstone - middle East envoy. Though that's not as silly as Tony Blair doing it
Development secretary, Kate Osamor.
Lets ignore that she has faced intense criticism after it emerged that she promoted her son in his House of Commons job, regardless of his conviction for having £2,500 of Class A drugs. Ms Osamor and her son Ishmael, 29, are living in social housing in Tottenham, north London - despite their earnings classing them ineligible by council guidelines.
Haringey Council documents from 2017 state that households earning in excess of £64,200 are not eligible to apply for a social housing property.
And it has been reported that 9,000 people are waiting for social housing in the borough - one of the poorest in Britain - and a further 3,000 are living in temporary accommodation due to the limited supply of properties.
Ms Osamor, a close ally of Jeremy Corbyn, is paid a salary of £77,379 plus expenses. Since being elected an MP in 2015 she has also benefitted from £13,000 of travel and accommodation on visits to countries including India and Nigeria.
And what does this have to do with the influence of the EU on Britain?
When do Dave Milliband and Jo Johnson announce the new centralist pro-remain party?
One nation under a groove.
Jo Johnson, centrist? Shall we examine his voting record?
Whooosh
The fact that I was seriously longing for said party shows that the bottom of the barrel has finally been reached
Ok let's play and annoy the Corbyn cultists.
Dan Jarvis - Minister of Defence
Your the cultish Henry - you throw darts at Corbyn's picture before you go to bed - admit it. You make me laugh more than annoy, your attempts are so feeble. It was annoying when you blamed him for a few things, but I think there isn't anything you haven't blamed him for now
When do Dave Milliband and Jo Johnson announce the new centralist pro-remain party?
One nation under a groove.
Jo Johnson, centrist? Shall we examine his voting record?
Whooosh
The fact that I was seriously longing for said party shows that the bottom of the barrel has finally been reached
Ok let's play and annoy the Corbyn cultists.
Dan Jarvis - Minister of Defence
Your the cultish Henry - you throw darts at Corbyn's picture before you go to bed - admit it. You make me laugh more than annoy, your attempts are so feeble. It was annoying when you blamed him for a few things, but I think there isn't anything you haven't blamed him for now
Your not very good at pretending your not getting wound up @MuttleyCAFC
It's ok, lots of people used to believe in a kind man with a white beard bringing happiness but then they realised father Christmas wasn't real either.
Cue the usual construction-industry suspects blathering on about being undercut by Poles rather than questioning the structural failings in UK employment law that allow them to be undercut at all!
When do Dave Milliband and Jo Johnson announce the new centralist pro-remain party?
One nation under a groove.
Jo Johnson, centrist? Shall we examine his voting record?
Whooosh
The fact that I was seriously longing for said party shows that the bottom of the barrel has finally been reached
Ok let's play and annoy the Corbyn cultists.
Dan Jarvis - Minister of Defence
Your the cultish Henry - you throw darts at Corbyn's picture before you go to bed - admit it. You make me laugh more than annoy, your attempts are so feeble. It was annoying when you blamed him for a few things, but I think there isn't anything you haven't blamed him for now
Your not very good at pretending your not getting wound up @MuttleyCAFC
It's ok, lots of people used to believe in a kind man with a white beard bringing happiness but then they realised father Christmas wasn't real either.
Arthur. We have options to control immigration, used by other EU countries but we choose not to implement them. Leaving EU will not reduce non-EU migrants, indeed likely to increase as French controls removed at Calais etc. Race hate fuelled by right wing press with their own agenda.
Quite. But that's not the point. It isn't what I'm suggesting either.
UKIP's detestable rise was fueled by uncontrolled immigration. Deny it, intellectualize it, blame it on right wing press or bluff it away, it really cant be denied.
None of the experts on this thread have explained why Labour heartlands voted to leave. Do you think northern industrial town Labour voters were influenced by right wing press? Really? Then if you do perhaps you are wrong.
Quite. But that's not the point. It isn't what I'm suggesting either.
UKIP's detestable rise was fueled by uncontrolled immigration. Deny it, intellectualize it, blame it on right wing press or bluff it away, it really cant be denied.
None of the experts on this thread have explained why Labour heartlands voted to leave. Do you think northern industrial town Labour voters were influenced by right wing press? Really? Then if you do perhaps you are wrong.
Partially The Sun, partially inherited bigotry unreconstructed by actual exposure to foreigners, partially racist and deceitful Facebook advertising, but mostly the not absurd notion that the state has let them down big time and ruined their lives
Quite. But that's not the point. It isn't what I'm suggesting either.
UKIP's detestable rise was fueled by uncontrolled immigration. Deny it, intellectualize it, blame it on right wing press or bluff it away, it really cant be denied.
None of the experts on this thread have explained why Labour heartlands voted to leave. Do you think northern industrial town Labour voters were influenced by right wing press? Really? Then if you do perhaps you are wrong.
Partially The Sun, partially inherited bigotry unreconstructed by actual exposure to foreigners, partially racist and deceitful Facebook advertising, but mostly the not absurd notion that the state has let them down big time and ruined their lives
Really? From your privileged London throne you think Labour voting northern industrial unemployed workers are sucked in by the Scum Newspaper? Dream on with your deluded views. Which state let them down? The current conservative twats or their supposed natural soul mates, the Labour party? Labour who ignored their needs for the sake of a few hundred thousand votes. Who let them down? Could it be Bliar and Brown who were supposed to look after their interests or the hated tories who, lets face it, have been their traditional foe since they first started voting? Who was it Leuth? Clue. They never voted Tory. Blame Facewank, advertising, a paper/press they have never trusted and a media they never read or believed, or could it possibly, maybe, incredibly, be what they see on their streets and their daily experiences? Something so far removed from your idealogical ivory tower you simply cant conceive it?
Uncontrolled immigration? I thought To y Blair’s government was one of the few European governments to permit immediate free movement of the Eastern European states acceding to the EU which had two effects, 1) significant economic growth in the UK compared to other European countries who regulated immigration and 2) pockets of unintegrated Eastern European tradespeople who didn’t bring families but worked harder, more professionally and cheaper than the existing workforce.
If this is what you mean by uncontrolled immigration, I agree.
However I think many people voting to leave the EU, particularly those from non-urban areas also voted to leave on the understanding that not only the Europeans would be restricted in free movement to the UK but also those from non-EU, in particular anyone Muslim where the prevailing view seemed to be that the closed and insular society favoured by many Imam developed a total lack of British identity and harboured terrorist cells.
Whether there are any serious any grounds to either argument is open to question, but I agree the perception that immigration has been uncontrolled and the increase in population cells that do not want or cannot integrate with those already present has been a massive influence on the vote, and unfortunately remains the most difficult aspect of running the country.
Do we need economic growth? If so we need to attract immigrant talent and labour.
If we look to grow by productivity improvement (where the UK is very weak) then we need to understand why we are so poor in this area.
Three things jump to mind:
1) we work too long hours in the main. Look at the 4 day week initiatives. Working longer hours is not more productive
2) incentivise research and development and arts spend in the uk
3) encourage integration of immigrant populations (don’t know what exactly I’m thinking of here tbf)
Is society under strain because of the level of immigration over the last few decades, yes. Has it been uncontrolled, no. Should there have, and should there be more support, yes.
Population and economic growth deliver benefits but they stretch existing resources (NHS, schools) while they add value (pays for our ridiculously unfunded state pension).
Politicians have known what they are doing on this for a long time and to say it is uncontrolled is not right. Totally agree it’s been badly managed.
Comments
Dan Jarvis - Minister of Defence
Ken Livingstone - middle East envoy. Though that's not as silly as Tony Blair doing it
It is now a little outdated, but you might note the connection between the British Council and the Foreign and Commonwealth office, and who is the Foreign Secretary now.
I doubt there is anything that is more guaranteed to get the backs up of English workers than hearing some upper middle-class Tory bastard telling them that they need to work harder.
Earlier this year at the Tory Party conference in Manchester, the multi-millionaire Health Secretary, Jeremy Richard Streynsham Hunt, claimed in a conference speech that low-paid workers lacked dignity and self respect and ought to graft like the Chinese "Who put in punishing hours" in a sweatshop. Needless to say, having been borne into a life of privilege, this former head boy of Charterhouse and student of Magdalen College Oxford, would know all about hard graft.
Jeremy Hunt's own career and advancement in life, is something that seems to have been shrouded in mystery. At the Tory Party conference, Hunt claimed that his father "worked as a manager" for the NHS. Given that his father, Sir Nicholas John Streynsham Hunt, was Admiral of the Fleet in his main career, this is something of an exaggeration. After retirement, Sir Nicholas like a lot of well-connected establishment figures, became a 'quangoista', joining various hospital boards. He then became Chairman of the South West Surrey District Health Authority during 1990 to 1995 and then Chairman of Nuffield Hospitals from 1996 to 2001. For most of this time, his niece, Virginia Bottomley, was the Secretary of State for Health in a Conservative government.
Until her retirement from open politics, Virginia Bottomley, had been the Conservative MP for South West Surrey. In 2005, her cousin Jeremy Hunt inherited her constituency (not quite Queen's Crawley) and stepped into her shoes becoming the new MP. Virginia was then ennobled and became Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone. She now lobbies on behalf of the private health sector and was a director of BUPA between 2007-2013.
During 1998-2001, Virginia Bottomley became Vice Chair of the British Council, a body that is linked to the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and which promotes British cultural interests overseas. While she was at the British Council, Jeremy Hunt, became the monopoly supplier obtaining the catering contract for his company 'Hotcourses'. As the monopoly catering supplier for the British Council, Jeremy amassed the fortune that he is so proud of today.
After being elected to Parliament, Jeremy was appointed Minister for Media and Culture and was put in charge of adjudicating the News Corp bid for BSkyB. Jeremy had previously partnered News Corp in his educational supplies business. After being an MP for just seven years, Jeremy Hunt became Secretary of State for Health, a position that had been previously held by his cousin Virginia Bottomley.
Although he owes much of his success in life to the social class that he was born into and his social connections, the Prime Minister, David Cameron, says that it's not where you come from that really matters but where you are going. But career progress of this type, "the leg up", or some would say 'nepotism,' is something that is admired by Cameron in spite of his assertions about merit. Cameron's only job outside of politics, was when he worked for Carlton TV, a job he got by being given a leg up by his mother-in-law, Lady Annabel Astor.
We do not mean to throw any odious imputation upon the general character of either Virginia Bottomley or Jeremy Hunt, nor do we suggest that they have acted in any way illegally. However, it is intriguing how both their lives and careers have been so closely intertwined as Jeremy as followed in the footsteps of his older cousin in becoming Health Secretary and in inheriting her Surrey constituency. Nor should we be surprised at the antics of a nepotistic English ruling elite, the Tory Party, who work to defend established privilege and work for anyone with money or power.
As for working like the Chinese, Jeremy Hunt failed to mention in his speech to the Tory Party that in 2010, Apple's Foxconn plants in China issued contracts forcing workers to sign a pledge stating that they would not commit suicide due to workplace stress. Another cousin, is Tristam Hunt MP, the son of Lord Hunt.
Before we have the first person to say 'they're all at it', perhaps somebody can show how Corbyn has used his connections to amass wealth.
As a leaver myself I knew what I was voting for, but I also understood the uncertainty around Brexit due to a big change this Country is making. I was going to exchange some money as I was going on holiday to Greece but waited after the referendum result as I thought leave would lose.
The NHS bus issue was a joke and the leave side kept banging on about immigration as the main issue when it was part of the issue, like many other things of being a EU member.
I want a trade with the EU but I know how tough the EU are trying to be because if they give us a easy deal then other Countries will certainly follow suit. What the EU doesn’t understand is they’re cutting their nose to spite their faces as the European companies would loose out if a no deal scenario happens. German car manufacturers are already crying out for a deal.
I fear of a no deal snenario but I strongly believe staying in the EU will be much worse for us. The UK is one of the biggest economies around the world and we’re attractive to trade with. The economy grew more this year than the EU has for starters!
A another referendum would put us in a much weaker position and it shows as un-democratic. The result was done no matter how pathetic both campaigns were, people made their minds up.If another referendum is certainly demanded why don’t we wait 5 years after we’ve left the EU then it will give us a clear view of things...because we’re still technically inside the EU!
Lets ignore that she has faced intense criticism after it emerged that she promoted her son in his House of Commons job, regardless of his conviction for having £2,500 of Class A drugs.
Ms Osamor and her son Ishmael, 29, are living in social housing in Tottenham, north London - despite their earnings classing them ineligible by council guidelines.
Haringey Council documents from 2017 state that households earning in excess of £64,200 are not eligible to apply for a social housing property.
And it has been reported that 9,000 people are waiting for social housing in the borough - one of the poorest in Britain - and a further 3,000 are living in temporary accommodation due to the limited supply of properties.
Ms Osamor, a close ally of Jeremy Corbyn, is paid a salary of £77,379 plus expenses. Since being elected an MP in 2015 she has also benefitted from £13,000 of travel and accommodation on visits to countries including India and Nigeria.
It's ok, lots of people used to believe in a kind man with a white beard bringing happiness but then they realised father Christmas wasn't real either.
But that's not the point. It isn't what I'm suggesting either.
UKIP's detestable rise was fueled by uncontrolled immigration.
Deny it, intellectualize it, blame it on right wing press or bluff it away, it really cant be denied.
None of the experts on this thread have explained why Labour heartlands voted to leave. Do you think northern industrial town Labour voters were influenced by right wing press? Really? Then if you do perhaps you are wrong.
From your privileged London throne you think Labour voting northern industrial unemployed workers are sucked in by the Scum Newspaper?
Dream on with your deluded views.
Which state let them down? The current conservative twats or their supposed natural soul mates, the Labour party? Labour who ignored their needs for the sake of a few hundred thousand votes.
Who let them down? Could it be Bliar and Brown who were supposed to look after their interests or the hated tories who, lets face it, have been their traditional foe since they first started voting?
Who was it Leuth? Clue. They never voted Tory.
Blame Facewank, advertising, a paper/press they have never trusted and a media they never read or believed, or could it possibly, maybe, incredibly, be what they see on their streets and their daily experiences?
Something so far removed from your idealogical ivory tower you simply cant conceive it?
If this is what you mean by uncontrolled immigration, I agree.
However I think many people voting to leave the EU, particularly those from non-urban areas also voted to leave on the understanding that not only the Europeans would be restricted in free movement to the UK but also those from non-EU, in particular anyone Muslim where the prevailing view seemed to be that the closed and insular society favoured by many Imam developed a total lack of British identity and harboured terrorist cells.
Whether there are any serious any grounds to either argument is open to question, but I agree the perception that immigration has been uncontrolled and the increase in population cells that do not want or cannot integrate with those already present has been a massive influence on the vote, and unfortunately remains the most difficult aspect of running the country.
Do we need economic growth? If so we need to attract immigrant talent and labour.
If we look to grow by productivity improvement (where the UK is very weak) then we need to understand why we are so poor in this area.
Three things jump to mind:
1) we work too long hours in the main. Look at the 4 day week initiatives. Working longer hours is not more productive
2) incentivise research and development and arts spend in the uk
3) encourage integration of immigrant populations (don’t know what exactly I’m thinking of here tbf)
Is society under strain because of the level of immigration over the last few decades, yes. Has it been uncontrolled, no. Should there have, and should there be more support, yes.
Population and economic growth deliver benefits but they stretch existing resources (NHS, schools) while they add value (pays for our ridiculously unfunded state pension).
Politicians have known what they are doing on this for a long time and to say it is uncontrolled is not right. Totally agree it’s been badly managed.
Between 1997 and 2010, net annual immigration quadrupled, and the UK population was boosted by more than 2.2 million
Its an article from The Grauniad, so some of you might even read it. Try it Charlton Madrid and Randy Andy
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/mar/24/how-immigration-came-to-haunt-labour-inside-story