Any deal that May comes up with will upset a section of the anti-Brexiteers and continue the division within the country. I'm unclear what this will do to politics within the country?
Cameron's clumsy attempt at a referendum exacerbated the division within the country and highlighted a lot of discontent.
Any deal that May comes up with will upset a section of the anti-Brexiteers and continue the division within the country. I'm unclear what this will do to politics within the country?
Cameron's clumsy attempt at a referendum exacerbated the division within the country and highlighted a lot of discontent.
All true but at this point all that matters for May is being able to get the deal she has made through Parliament. Of course we still don’t have the details but if it’s along the lines of the Sunday Times leak which I’m sure it is, then I think she has a chance.
We have to see what it is, before we can comment too much on it.
Well Mr Johnson says it "stinks" .
Does he ? I’ve not had a chance to chase down the reactions of the nutters yet. My gut instinct is to think that they would reject it but will enough of their support base in the commons be persuaded to vote with it ? I’m starting to think that kicking the Irish issue down the road might satisfy the non rabid brexiters as long as it is time limited. The DUP have their own agenda but I would imagine they would be onside.
We have to see what it is, before we can comment too much on it.
Well Mr Johnson says it "stinks" .
Does he ? I’ve not had a chance to chase down the reactions of the nutters yet. My gut instinct is to think that they would reject it but will enough of their support base in the commons be persuaded to vote with it ? I’m starting to think that kicking the Irish issue down the road might satisfy the non rabid brexiters as long as it is time limited. The DUP have their own agenda but I would imagine they would be onside.
Have you checked Arlene's understanding of the offside rule?
The EU27 have been absolutely clear that the backstop is an insurance mechanism - it cannot be time limited, but, even in the event of a perfect future relationship around tariffs and regulatory issues, it would be held in reserve (just in case).
We have to see what it is, before we can comment too much on it.
Well Mr Johnson says it "stinks" .
Does he ? I’ve not had a chance to chase down the reactions of the nutters yet. My gut instinct is to think that they would reject it but will enough of their support base in the commons be persuaded to vote with it ? I’m starting to think that kicking the Irish issue down the road might satisfy the non rabid brexiters as long as it is time limited. The DUP have their own agenda but I would imagine they would be onside.
Brexiteers criticise Remainers for not accepting the referendum outcome yet Brexiteers seem unsure what the result means as they can't agree on a deal. Nobody thinks a second referendum is needed and apparently this is all going to work out okay.
Was Cameron a Russian agent trying to destabilise the UK - did a good job.
Even Aaron Banks is now saying he'd prefer to Remain.
Not really sure how this can get any more ridiculous unless the queen abdicates and Farage or Bojo become President.
I don't think kicking the Irish issue down the road should be acceptable to anybody. If you kick that solution down the road, for me you should kick everything else down the road too. The reason nobody has found a solution yet is because there just might not be one.
I don't think kicking the Irish issue down the road should be acceptable to anybody. If you kick that solution down the road, for me you should kick everything else down the road too. The reason nobody has found a solution yet is because there just might not be one.
Think you need to remember that kicking something down the road is always seen by politicians as a good option.
We have to see what it is, before we can comment too much on it.
Well Mr Johnson says it "stinks" .
Does he ? I’ve not had a chance to chase down the reactions of the nutters yet. My gut instinct is to think that they would reject it but will enough of their support base in the commons be persuaded to vote with it ? I’m starting to think that kicking the Irish issue down the road might satisfy the non rabid brexiters as long as it is time limited. The DUP have their own agenda but I would imagine they would be onside.
The article was for the Scum/S** so didn’t have to be too detailed. Looks like he is still trawling far and wide for support for his leadership bid. Is Uncle Rup starting to see him as a possibility perhaps?
We have to see what it is, before we can comment too much on it.
Well Mr Johnson says it "stinks" .
Does he ? I’ve not had a chance to chase down the reactions of the nutters yet. My gut instinct is to think that they would reject it but will enough of their support base in the commons be persuaded to vote with it ? I’m starting to think that kicking the Irish issue down the road might satisfy the non rabid brexiters as long as it is time limited. The DUP have their own agenda but I would imagine they would be onside.
The article was for the Scum/S** so didn’t have to be too detailed. Looks like he is still trawling far and wide for support for his leadership bid. Is Uncle Rup starting to see him as a possibility perhaps?
I’m thinking that this leaked deal is starting to worry the hard Brexit supporters and could even see the much talked about leadership challenge depending on how the deal once announced is generally viewed. If there is any thought it might get through any vote then it’s shit it bust for ERG & co.
The EU can see the absurdity of a time limited 'backstop' and have the common sense to realise it must (if it happens) stay in place until there is a resolution of the Irish border issue. If the UK hope a free trade agreement is the resolution then when does it happen, or if the UK thinks there is a technological solution why has it not even outlined in principle how that solution will operate? Of course there remains the option for the UK to go back on it's word in relation to the GTA and barb wire the frontier.
The EU can see the absurdity of a time limited 'backstop' and have the common sense to realise it must (if it happens) stay in place until there is a resolution of the Irish border issue. If the UK hope a free trade agreement is the resolution then when does it happen, or if the UK thinks there is a technological solution why has it not even outlined in principle how that solution will operate? Of course there remains the option for the UK to go back on it's word in relation to the GTA and barb wire the frontier.
Are you forgetting the “trusted trader” solution.
Trusted trader my arse.
We can’t even trust Volkswagen to give us emission figures without cheating, let alone Michael O’ Reilly logistics.
I suppose, If you agree a customs union, Norway type deal to be in place until a solution to the Irish border is found - you are effectively agreeing a Norway deal as solution won't be found. The problem with this is, people like Rees Mogg and Johnson will say they have a solution, which everybody knows isn't a solution, but I can't see them accepting this. Then the question is Labour. I could see a few Labour MPs voting for a Norway like deal, but will it satisfy the six tests? I doubt it, although I think if it did, Labour would support it!
Yes quite right. All leavers, who speak for 17m people, should be muzzled and Adonis, who remember has never been elected by anybody to anything, should be allowed to pontificate at will on the BBC about his 'peoples vote', which also has never been voted for by anybody except the Lib Dems-who got 7% of the vote at the General election last year.
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
Yes quite right. All leavers, who speak for 17m people, should be muzzled and Adonis, who remember has never been elected by anybody to anything, should be allowed to pontificate at will on the BBC about his 'peoples vote', which also has never been voted for by anybody except the Lib Dems-who got 7% of the vote at the General election last year.
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
Dare you actually tackle what Adonis said, or are you just going to make personal slights against him? It seems to me that he's bang on the money.
Yes quite right. All leavers, who speak for 17m people, should be muzzled and Adonis, who remember has never been elected by anybody to anything, should be allowed to pontificate at will on the BBC about his 'peoples vote', which also has never been voted for by anybody except the Lib Dems-who got 7% of the vote at the General election last year.
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
Dare you actually tackle what Adonis said, or are you just going to make personal slights against him? It seems to me that he's bang on the money.
'The BBC is consistently manipulated by Brexiteers into providing them with false parity in arguments where their views add nothing, represent nobody and are demonstrably and factually wrong'
He says the Brexiters represent 'nobody', and you think that is bang on the money?
Yes quite right. All leavers, who speak for 17m people, should be muzzled and Adonis, who remember has never been elected by anybody to anything, should be allowed to pontificate at will on the BBC about his 'peoples vote', which also has never been voted for by anybody except the Lib Dems-who got 7% of the vote at the General election last year.
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
Dare you actually tackle what Adonis said, or are you just going to make personal slights against him? It seems to me that he's bang on the money.
'The BBC is consistently manipulated by Brexiteers into providing them with false parity in arguments where their views add nothing, represent nobody and are demonstrably and factually wrong'
He says the Brexiters represent 'nobody', and you think that is bang on the money?
Again, you haven't actually tackled the thrust of Adonis' argument. You've given one quote and asked me a question on the basis of that quote. Except that in between the quote and the question you've managed to mangle the meaning of what was written. Adonis did not say that, "the Brexiters represent 'nobody'". He said that their views represent nobody; there's a difference and you need to understand that before you can have a hope of tackling what he said.
Yes quite right. All leavers, who speak for 17m people, should be muzzled and Adonis, who remember has never been elected by anybody to anything, should be allowed to pontificate at will on the BBC about his 'peoples vote', which also has never been voted for by anybody except the Lib Dems-who got 7% of the vote at the General election last year.
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
Dare you actually tackle what Adonis said, or are you just going to make personal slights against him? It seems to me that he's bang on the money.
'The BBC is consistently manipulated by Brexiteers into providing them with false parity in arguments where their views add nothing, represent nobody and are demonstrably and factually wrong'
He says the Brexiters represent 'nobody', and you think that is bang on the money?
Again, you haven't actually tackled the thrust of Adonis' argument. You've given one quote and asked me a question on the basis of that quote. Except that in between the quote and the question you've managed to mangle the meaning of what was written. Adonis did not say that, "the Brexiters represent 'nobody'". He said that their views represent nobody; there's a difference and you need to understand that before you can have a hope of tackling what he said.
It's a bit unreasonable to ask people to read stuff before conmenting.
Andrew Adonis has been appointed to Government positions by three Prime Ministers (Blair, Brown and Cameron); has sat in Parliament for more than 13 years; and has either been a member of, or served in Government with four political parties.
I would suggest he's better positioned to "pontificate" on Brexit than, for example, politicians who have resigned their posts, rather than being held accountable (Johnson, Gove); have never held government positions (Jacob Rees-Mogg); or who have never sat in Parliament in the UK (Farage).
Yes quite right. All leavers, who speak for 17m people, should be muzzled and Adonis, who remember has never been elected by anybody to anything, should be allowed to pontificate at will on the BBC about his 'peoples vote', which also has never been voted for by anybody except the Lib Dems-who got 7% of the vote at the General election last year.
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
Dare you actually tackle what Adonis said, or are you just going to make personal slights against him? It seems to me that he's bang on the money.
'The BBC is consistently manipulated by Brexiteers into providing them with false parity in arguments where their views add nothing, represent nobody and are demonstrably and factually wrong'
He says the Brexiters represent 'nobody', and you think that is bang on the money?
What Adonis is getting at there is that Arron Banks has never submitted himself to the electorate for representative duties (unlike Farage who has offered himself as an MP several times and been told to shove it). Why therefore should a private citizen be allowed to come on the Marr Show because he has been named as the subject of a criminal investigation, and have free reign to put up a defence before the NCA have even started work? Where is the public interest in that? Had Marr also "balanced" him by inviting, say, Carole Cadwalladr on, then it might have been acceptable - you know, like the Today programme gets Nigel Lawson on every time there is a new climate change discovery. But no, no balance this time. Just Banks being allowed to say "No Russian money" without Marr even suggesting there was - and then their Twitter feed highlighting him saying that!!
That show is the work of members of your 'liberal metropolitan elite' too, @Southbank.
That is a shame. Maybe the Irish PM could demonstrate how much he hates Brexit by paying back that 2 billion quid that we used to bail them out a few years back immediately.
Would that be the loan of £3.2 billion, being repaid with interest that Ireland offered to pay back in full ahead of time, an offer that that the UK refused?
The interest that has been paid to date is in the region of half a billion pounds.
I've no doubt that the Taoiseach would willingly pay now and avoid additional interest payments.
You always seem to bring facts in to counter opinion @NornIrishAddick . It is a bit unfair.
That is a shame. Maybe the Irish PM could demonstrate how much he hates Brexit by paying back that 2 billion quid that we used to bail them out a few years back immediately.
Would that be the loan of £3.2 billion, being repaid with interest that Ireland offered to pay back in full ahead of time, an offer that that the UK refused?
The interest that has been paid to date is in the region of half a billion pounds.
I've no doubt that the Taoiseach would willingly pay now and avoid additional interest payments.
You always seem to bring facts in to counter opinion @NornIrishAddick . It is a bit unfair.
Ireland have been willing to repay its loans in advance, but the loan from the UK has fixed terms and a severe penalty break clause. Which means that early repayment would cost Ireland more than continuing until the due date for repayment.
Comments
Cameron's clumsy attempt at a referendum exacerbated the division within the country and highlighted a lot of discontent.
If May gets a deal through in Parliament how long will the deal last before politicians try to sabotage it?
The EU27 have been absolutely clear that the backstop is an insurance mechanism - it cannot be time limited, but, even in the event of a perfect future relationship around tariffs and regulatory issues, it would be held in reserve (just in case).
Was Cameron a Russian agent trying to destabilise the UK - did a good job.
Even Aaron Banks is now saying he'd prefer to Remain.
Not really sure how this can get any more ridiculous unless the queen abdicates and Farage or Bojo become President.
If the UK hope a free trade agreement is the resolution then when does it happen, or if the UK thinks there is a technological solution why has it not even outlined in principle how that solution will operate?
Of course there remains the option for the UK to go back on it's word in relation to the GTA and barb wire the frontier.
Trusted trader my arse.
We can’t even trust Volkswagen to give us emission figures without cheating, let alone Michael O’ Reilly logistics.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/nov/05/andrew-marr-arron-banks-bbc-brexit?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard
I fear that if we had another referendum and Adonis lost again, his head would simply explode. The poor man needs all our sympathy. He simply cannot understand why he should not have his way.
He says the Brexiters represent 'nobody', and you think that is bang on the money?
I would suggest he's better positioned to "pontificate" on Brexit than, for example, politicians who have resigned their posts, rather than being held accountable (Johnson, Gove); have never held government positions (Jacob Rees-Mogg); or who have never sat in Parliament in the UK (Farage).
That show is the work of members of your 'liberal metropolitan elite' too, @Southbank.
Ireland have been willing to repay its loans in advance, but the loan from the UK has fixed terms and a severe penalty break clause. Which means that early repayment would cost Ireland more than continuing until the due date for repayment.
The other creditors did not have similar clauses, and so, the IMF, et al, have been repaid: https://ft.com/content/832e51b8-f6fb-3d99-ad87-d4defac42cf5.
Under the penalty break clause, the UK Government would demand an additional 200 million Euro payment from Ireland for any early repayment, so the Irish Government have decided not to bother: https://rte.ie/news/business/2017/0907/902980-imf-loan-repayments/ & https://irishtimes.com/business/economy/state-averts-200m-uk-penalty-amid-bailout-refinancing-1.3212780. If the UK was willing to allow early repayment without additional penalties, Ireland would have gone for it (and I've no doubt that, before the news, above, was made public, the Irish Government would have raised the matter with HMG).
Here's the latest UK Government report on the loan and repayments: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/748298/Ireland_loan_statutory_report_September_2018_web.pdf.