I could be wrong but I am sure I read somewhere that the Europesn Central Bank stops ‘supporting’ Italy at the end of this year.
This has been a while coming but was inevitable.
You may well be right. I won't profess to knowing anything of the situation, but it's probably something the EU can live without on top of us leaving.
This was it;
“Thus far, the crisis has not turned critical because the European Central Bank has been willing (well not willing exactly, but obliged) to buy Italian bonds to help keep the country and its banking system going. That policy is being wound down and finishes at end 2018, and is in any case unsustainable without a wider reform of the eurozone into a fiscal union, as President Macron proposes.”
“Italians do not want to leave the EU or even the euro area; rather, they want to make it work their way. It is the opposite to the British, who just want to get out. The British option is easier to deal with for the EU. It is like the awkward member of the house share just finally moving out. The Italians are deciding to stay put, yet not doing their share of the washing and not chipping in to the house share budget. They sit in the corner and grumble about the housemates, or insult them, keeping them up at night with the noise. It is getting uncomfortable. Sooner or later, Italy will provoke another eurozone crisis. The flaws in the single currency are real, and have not gone away since the Greek and other crises a few years ago. It requires its members to deflate when they become uncompetitive; they cannot devalue their own currencies because they no longer exist.
Greece, crucially, was small enough to save. Italy is too big to fail, yet too big to save, also. As the third largest economy in the eurozone and with a vast national debt, it is beyond the means of the Germans to bail out, even assuming they wished to. Markets fear some sort of breakup of the eurozone, banks collapsing, political instability and much else spreading out from Italy towards the rest of "Club Med" and the EU in a wildfire of economic contagion. It could finish the euro; and that really does terrify Frankfurt, Brussels, Berlin and Paris - and financial players globally.”
I could be wrong but I am sure I read somewhere that the Europesn Central Bank stops ‘supporting’ Italy at the end of this year.
This has been a while coming but was inevitable.
You may well be right. I won't profess to knowing anything of the situation, but it's probably something the EU can live without on top of us leaving.
This was it;
“Thus far, the crisis has not turned critical because the European Central Bank has been willing (well not willing exactly, but obliged) to buy Italian bonds to help keep the country and its banking system going. That policy is being wound down and finishes at end 2018, and is in any case unsustainable without a wider reform of the eurozone into a fiscal union, as President Macron proposes.”
“Italians do not want to leave the EU or even the euro area; rather, they want to make it work their way. It is the opposite to the British, who just want to get out. The British option is easier to deal with for the EU. It is like the awkward member of the house share just finally moving out. The Italians are deciding to stay put, yet not doing their share of the washing and not chipping in to the house share budget. They sit in the corner and grumble about the housemates, or insult them, keeping them up at night with the noise. It is getting uncomfortable. Sooner or later, Italy will provoke another eurozone crisis. The flaws in the single currency are real, and have not gone away since the Greek and other crises a few years ago. It requires its members to deflate when they become uncompetitive; they cannot devalue their own currencies because they no longer exist.
Greece, crucially, was small enough to save. Italy is too big to fail, yet too big to save, also. As the third largest economy in the eurozone and with a vast national debt, it is beyond the means of the Germans to bail out, even assuming they wished to. Markets fear some sort of breakup of the eurozone, banks collapsing, political instability and much else spreading out from Italy towards the rest of "Club Med" and the EU in a wildfire of economic contagion. It could finish the euro; and that really does terrify Frankfurt, Brussels, Berlin and Paris - and financial players globally.”
This demonstrates the fundamental problem of the euro project, that a single currency has to have a single country with a single political system and a single central bank to make it work. The Euro can only be stable if all the the Euro countries abandon sovereignty and become a single country with a single government. Otherwise it is doomed to fail, maybe not this time but eventually, unless people from the eurozone countries decide to live in a fully federal state, but politically the opposite to that seems to be happening.
I could be wrong but I am sure I read somewhere that the Europesn Central Bank stops ‘supporting’ Italy at the end of this year.
This has been a while coming but was inevitable.
You may well be right. I won't profess to knowing anything of the situation, but it's probably something the EU can live without on top of us leaving.
This was it;
“Thus far, the crisis has not turned critical because the European Central Bank has been willing (well not willing exactly, but obliged) to buy Italian bonds to help keep the country and its banking system going. That policy is being wound down and finishes at end 2018, and is in any case unsustainable without a wider reform of the eurozone into a fiscal union, as President Macron proposes.”
“Italians do not want to leave the EU or even the euro area; rather, they want to make it work their way. It is the opposite to the British, who just want to get out. The British option is easier to deal with for the EU. It is like the awkward member of the house share just finally moving out. The Italians are deciding to stay put, yet not doing their share of the washing and not chipping in to the house share budget. They sit in the corner and grumble about the housemates, or insult them, keeping them up at night with the noise. It is getting uncomfortable. Sooner or later, Italy will provoke another eurozone crisis. The flaws in the single currency are real, and have not gone away since the Greek and other crises a few years ago. It requires its members to deflate when they become uncompetitive; they cannot devalue their own currencies because they no longer exist.
Greece, crucially, was small enough to save. Italy is too big to fail, yet too big to save, also. As the third largest economy in the eurozone and with a vast national debt, it is beyond the means of the Germans to bail out, even assuming they wished to. Markets fear some sort of breakup of the eurozone, banks collapsing, political instability and much else spreading out from Italy towards the rest of "Club Med" and the EU in a wildfire of economic contagion. It could finish the euro; and that really does terrify Frankfurt, Brussels, Berlin and Paris - and financial players globally.”
If the Italians did decide to leave the EU, will it be called Quitaly ?
"Shocked cabinet"? What a shower they are. The warnings that transport and customs experts have been giving out for the best part of three years have fallen on deaf ears, or been called "project fear" by the quitlings, and now a posh twat tells them in cabinet and they are "shocked".
Still - they need us more than we need them, eh...
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Tier 2 points based works just as well.
For whom?
Highly skilled non-EU migrants.
I can't see how a Tier 2 Visa, which has a dependency on a CoS from an employer, works as 'well' as an independent Tier 1 visa that assess the skills the person can bring to the UK economy and gives them unrestricted access to the UK job market?
Just a few examples of why I disagree:
- for a company to offer sponsorship, regardless of candidate points, the position needs to be advertised in at least two places to the UK labour market for a minimum of 30 days to give those eligible to work in the UK without restriction the chance to apply (unless it's an intra-company transfer of the applicant has a Tier 4 visa).
- If the Highly Skilled person want's to change jobs, they are restricted to employers who have a Home Office CoS and have followed the above guidelines. The do not have unrestricted access to the UK job market as a result.
- In the event of employment termination (redundancy or otherwise) the person has a limited timeframe to find a new sponsor (again regardless of points) or they are deported.
- Most Tier 2 visa holders will say themselves that they face extreme prejudice in the UK job market, with most recruiters and employers not even willing to consider applications from them given the admin, time and cost association.
To be fair, I hate the term 'highly-skilled'. I strongly believe that If / When we leave the EU and have 'control' (whatever that is) the term should be changed to 'Critical Workers' to cover all of the skills we will need in the UK moving forward and the old style Tier 1 visas should be re-introduced.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Great post
Certainly was.
What is interesting however is that in the year ending March 2018, there was a net influx of 235k non EU people and 87k from the EU. What I'd really be interested in is the stats on what these people were coming for. I suppose a lot of the non-EU people are students. People still are jumping through hoops to get here, it's not impossible.
From memory, I think that about half the non EU net figure is made up of students
Does this make much sense? A net influx of 120k students would mean that every year there are 120k more students than there were year before!
So far as I can tell there were around 65,000 non EU university applications last year. So I could possibly believe that a total 120k "students" arrived in the UK. But I would expect roughly the same number to stop being students and either go home or become true "immigrants".
For what it's worth I think people come here because we need them to! We have worked hard and earned good pensions and rightly expect to be looked after when we get old. But, although we theoretically have the money, there are not enough people around to actually do the work required - so one way or another we have to constantly grow the population to keep the whole thing going!
It's obviously not sustainable but we will not resolve this until we realise that high immigration is a symptom of the problem. It is not the cause.
I could be wrong but I am sure I read somewhere that the Europesn Central Bank stops ‘supporting’ Italy at the end of this year.
This has been a while coming but was inevitable.
You may well be right. I won't profess to knowing anything of the situation, but it's probably something the EU can live without on top of us leaving.
This was it;
“Thus far, the crisis has not turned critical because the European Central Bank has been willing (well not willing exactly, but obliged) to buy Italian bonds to help keep the country and its banking system going. That policy is being wound down and finishes at end 2018, and is in any case unsustainable without a wider reform of the eurozone into a fiscal union, as President Macron proposes.”
“Italians do not want to leave the EU or even the euro area; rather, they want to make it work their way. It is the opposite to the British, who just want to get out. The British option is easier to deal with for the EU. It is like the awkward member of the house share just finally moving out. The Italians are deciding to stay put, yet not doing their share of the washing and not chipping in to the house share budget. They sit in the corner and grumble about the housemates, or insult them, keeping them up at night with the noise. It is getting uncomfortable. Sooner or later, Italy will provoke another eurozone crisis. The flaws in the single currency are real, and have not gone away since the Greek and other crises a few years ago. It requires its members to deflate when they become uncompetitive; they cannot devalue their own currencies because they no longer exist.
Greece, crucially, was small enough to save. Italy is too big to fail, yet too big to save, also. As the third largest economy in the eurozone and with a vast national debt, it is beyond the means of the Germans to bail out, even assuming they wished to. Markets fear some sort of breakup of the eurozone, banks collapsing, political instability and much else spreading out from Italy towards the rest of "Club Med" and the EU in a wildfire of economic contagion. It could finish the euro; and that really does terrify Frankfurt, Brussels, Berlin and Paris - and financial players globally.”
It's not a case of Greece being small enough to save. It was French and German banks and the Euro that the EU was desperate to save. Greece was small enough to sacrifice. If losing 25% of your GDP and being saddled with a debt repayment/austerity/privatization programme that sentences you to years of penury is being saved, maybe you could do without that kind of saving.
Italy is a whole other level of disaster waiting to happen and will make Brexit look like a tea party.
Italy actually has a decent economy in some aspects. It exports more than us for instance. It has zombie banks and demographic issues which are its big issues. Whereas the Euro works for Germany, it works less well for Italy.
Before any fellow remainers have a whinge at me - I'll keep slagging off Germany until they no longer are the major problem in the EU. And I like Bauer and have no issue with the German people!
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Italy actually has a decent economy in some aspects. It exports more than us for instance. It has zombie banks and demographic issues which are its big issues. Whereas the Euro works for Germany, it works less well for Italy.
Before any fellow remainers have a whinge at me - I'll keep slagging off Germany until they no longer are the major problem in the EU. And I like Bauer and have no issue with the German people!
That's a huge, HUGE issue that means any semblance of a decent economy is immediately and completely undermined, though.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Italy actually has a decent economy in some aspects. It exports more than us for instance. It has zombie banks and demographic issues which are its big issues. Whereas the Euro works for Germany, it works less well for Italy.
Before any fellow remainers have a whinge at me - I'll keep slagging off Germany until they no longer are the major problem in the EU. And I like Bauer and have no issue with the German people!
That's a huge, HUGE issue that means any semblance of a decent economy is immediately and completely undermined, though.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
I think you've misinterpreted the post.
I think I have misinterpreted the post (i.e. usual racist rubbish meaning banging on about racism, rather than Seth being racist?) and these are fair points, though @Stu_of_Kunming I must confess I've not paid enough attention to this thread to see if Seth is mocking others with foreign-sounding names(?!!) and he's certainly not done it in actuality, so I'll have to recuse myself from answering that particular question.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
I think you've misinterpreted the post.
I think I have misinterpreted the post (i.e. usual racist rubbish meaning banging on about racism, rather than Seth being racist?) and these are fair points, though @Stu_of_Kunming I must confess I've not paid enough attention to this thread to see if Seth is mocking others with foreign-sounding names(?!!) and he's certainly not done it in actuality, so I'll have to recuse myself from answering that particular question.
Not on this thread, on any of the takeover, efl or associated threads, Seth likes to mock LDV's name, not liking someone, or the job they do doesn't excuse racist abuse. Nor does marrying a foreigner make it impossible to be a racist.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
Where is your evidence that I labelled you, Stu of Kunming, a racist?
My first post yesterday did not do what you say TT was referring to.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
I think you've misinterpreted the post.
I think I have misinterpreted the post (i.e. usual racist rubbish meaning banging on about racism, rather than Seth being racist?) and these are fair points, though @Stu_of_Kunming I must confess I've not paid enough attention to this thread to see if Seth is mocking others with foreign-sounding names(?!!) and he's certainly not done it in actuality, so I'll have to recuse myself from answering that particular question.
Not on this thread, on any of the takeover, efl or associated threads, Seth likes to mock LDV's name, not liking someone, or the job they do doesn't excuse racist abuse. Nor does marrying a foreigner make it impossible to be a racist.
Thank you for that.
Yes I usually write LDV's name differently.
I frequently call him Eddie Stobart's Van and Truck for Hire.
If you think that is racist because he is from Belgium I accept that, I thought I was behaving more poetically when giving him that (what I would call) nickname. I also was trying to be kind of poetic in my first post yesterday by playing around with colours like in 'blue faces and white passports', but clearly I hit a nerve with some who see that as a racist comment. I accept that some of my language play is clumsy and not especially poetic as is my intention. I suppose British people giving out nicknames like 'Gobinson' or 'Cojones' are not 'racist' because Karl Robinson and Tony Keohane are fellow Brits.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David D
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
Where is your evidence that I labelled you, Stu of Kunming, a racist?
My first post yesterday did not do what you say TT was referring to.
You have quite regularly labelled Brexit voters as racist.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis order question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
Having a Chinese wife does not make it impossible for you to be racist, I also have a Chinese wife, who is pregnant with my half-Chinese son, yet Seth finds it acceptable to label me a racist, whilst mocking people with foreign-sounding names himself, a little odd, wouldn't you agree?
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
Very strange to call a man with a Chinese wife and half-Chinese son (that'll be me) a racist. Because he simply is not.
I think you've misinterpreted the post.
I think I have misinterpreted the post (i.e. usual racist rubbish meaning banging on about racism, rather than Seth being racist?) and these are fair points, though @Stu_of_Kunming I must confess I've not paid enough attention to this thread to see if Seth is mocking others with foreign-sounding names(?!!) and he's certainly not done it in actuality, so I'll have to recuse myself from answering that particular question.
Not on this thread, on any of the takeover, efl or associated threads, Seth likes to mock LDV's name, not liking someone, or the job they do doesn't excuse racist abuse. Nor does marrying a foreigner make it impossible to be a racist.
Thank you for that.
Yes I usually write LDV's name differently.
I frequently call him Eddie Stobart's Van and Truck for Hire.
If you think that is racist because he is from Belgium I accept that, I thought I was behaving more poetically when giving him that (what I would call) nickname. I also was trying to be kind of poetic in my first post yesterday by playing around with colours like in 'blue faces and white passports', but clearly I hit a nerve with some who see that as a racist comment. I accept that some of my language play is clumsy and not especially poetic as is my intention. I suppose British people giving out nicknames like 'Gobinson' or 'Cojones' are not 'racist' because Karl Robinson and Tony Keohane are fellow Brits.
I have no doubt if someone else did the same with a Chinese name, you'd be calling them out.
The thing that I really can't get my head round is the fact that the sway of opinion hasn't changed that much.
I can honestly get why so many people voted to Leave, I was very, very close myself. Only changed my mind at the last minute.
But since the vote, the evidence that's been presented to us all as an electorate has been overwhelming of the lies. It's clear its going to be hugely damaging to the country as a whole and no-one from either side of the debate wants that, surely?
My friends that voted Leave now seem to refuse to debate, something they did with gusto in the lead up to the referendum but are adamant they'd vote the same way again, I just can't see why? They're people I respect and would value their opinions on most things, but what is it about the amount of evidence in this case that blinds people?
It's honestly the thing that concerns me the most as to the entrenched position despite SO MUCH evidence that says it will hurt us all.
How is there not a landslide of public opinion changing?
It's not a dig at those that haven't I promise, it's more me trying to understand why, and how this can be the situation?
The thing that I really can't get my head round is the fact that the sway of opinion hasn't changed that much.
I can honestly get why so many people voted to Leave, I was very, very close myself. Only changed my mind at the last minute.
But since the vote, the evidence that's been presented to us all as an electorate has been overwhelming of the lies. It's clear its going to be hugely damaging to the country as a whole and no-one from either side of the debate wants that, surely?
My friends that voted Leave now seem to refuse to debate, something they did with gusto in the lead up to the referendum but are adamant they'd vote the same way again, I just can't see why? They're people I respect and would value their opinions on most things, but what is it about the amount of evidence in this case that blinds people?
It's honestly the thing that concerns me the most as to the entrenched position despite SO MUCH evidence that says it will hurt us all.
How is there not a landslide of public opinion changing?
It's not a dig at those that haven't I promise, it's more me trying to understand why, and how this can be the situation?
I think it is changing, and I suspect that it'll pour soon, because I think the Daily Mail is about to flip, clear from Geordie Gregg that he's a ardent remainer, he can see it going wrong, and can shift the paper to at least to say pause, and probably a people's vote. It's already shifting it's tone, and especially on leaving the EU.
As for people refusing to change, if you've been conned, why would you openingly admit it. Like the middle aged women who got ripped off by the fake Nigerian lover, you never admit you got ripped off. Until they get in the ballot box.
The thing that I really can't get my head round is the fact that the sway of opinion hasn't changed that much.
I can honestly get why so many people voted to Leave, I was very, very close myself. Only changed my mind at the last minute.
But since the vote, the evidence that's been presented to us all as an electorate has been overwhelming of the lies. It's clear its going to be hugely damaging to the country as a whole and no-one from either side of the debate wants that, surely?
My friends that voted Leave now seem to refuse to debate, something they did with gusto in the lead up to the referendum but are adamant they'd vote the same way again, I just can't see why? They're people I respect and would value their opinions on most things, but what is it about the amount of evidence in this case that blinds people?
It's honestly the thing that concerns me the most as to the entrenched position despite SO MUCH evidence that says it will hurt us all.
How is there not a landslide of public opinion changing?
It's not a dig at those that haven't I promise, it's more me trying to understand why, and how this can be the situation?
It's simple psychology really. If you ask someone to make a decision, they make it and don't normally like to change. To do so would make them admit that they were wrong, and not many people are happy to do this. I'd also be surprised if the majority of people are actually paying attention to what is going on, or if they do there is an element on bias confirmation... Leavers may see it going wrong as evidence of why we needed to leave i.e. proved the EU are bastards, and remainers see it as evidence of why we should stay i.e. it's doing us harm.
Thank you for your reply. I have not therefore called you a racist so that is cleared up. As for calling people out over names, can I look forward to you calling out those who say stuff like 'Gobinson', and 'Keohane' as racist? It seems to me that because of our opposing views on almost everything you save specific allegations for me, when I share those same characteristics with other posters on this site who carry on free of allegations from you. Mind you, I am not asking for you to be even handed or consistent, you can call me out as much as you like, but to interpret my nickname for LDV as racist behaviour, and therefore I am a racist, I think is very weak ground indeed.
If we drop out of the EU with no deal and there is chaos I'm curious who is going to get the blame for it all.
If Macron decides to block imports from France then could someone explain how we'll get round this.
We seem to be in the midst of a slow motion car crash yet none of our useless politicians want to do anything about it.
That's an easy one - the Leave camp will blame the EU and the Remain camp will blame UK politicians.
How long can the leave camp blame the EU before it dawns on them their own politicians are a pile of s***. I'm assuming once we've left the EU we'll still be blaming it for the next 50 years or so.
If there is chaos at the ports and it's anywhere near as bad as predicted I'm assuming Bojo and Farage will sort it out?
Italy actually has a decent economy in some aspects. It exports more than us for instance. It has zombie banks and demographic issues which are its big issues. Whereas the Euro works for Germany, it works less well for Italy.
Before any fellow remainers have a whinge at me - I'll keep slagging off Germany until they no longer are the major problem in the EU. And I like Bauer and have no issue with the German people!
That's a huge, HUGE issue that means any semblance of a decent economy is immediately and completely undermined, though.
You are right - It is a huge issue.
The turning of a blind eye/fear of organised crime is a big problem, and possibly the difference between a successful Italy and an unsuccessful Italy?
It appears that the UK has nest-feathering politicians blaming the EU and Italy has crime tolerant politicians doing the same.
If we drop out of the EU with no deal and there is chaos I'm curious who is going to get the blame for it all.
If Macron decides to block imports from France then could someone explain how we'll get round this.
We seem to be in the midst of a slow motion car crash yet none of our useless politicians want to do anything about it.
That's an easy one - the Leave camp will blame the EU and the Remain camp will blame UK politicians.
How long can the leave camp blame the EU before it dawns on them their own politicians are a pile of s***. I'm assuming once we've left the EU we'll still be blaming it for the next 50 years or so.
If there is chaos at the ports and it's anywhere near as bad as predicted I'm assuming Bojo and Farage will sort it out?
If there is chaos that doesn't subside and the worst predictions of 'project fear' are realised then ultimately the blame will go all the way back to where it belongs - Cameron.
If we drop out of the EU with no deal and there is chaos I'm curious who is going to get the blame for it all.
If Macron decides to block imports from France then could someone explain how we'll get round this.
We seem to be in the midst of a slow motion car crash yet none of our useless politicians want to do anything about it.
That's an easy one - the Leave camp will blame the EU and the Remain camp will blame UK politicians.
How long can the leave camp blame the EU before it dawns on them their own politicians are a pile of s***. I'm assuming once we've left the EU we'll still be blaming it for the next 50 years or so.
If there is chaos at the ports and it's anywhere near as bad as predicted I'm assuming Bojo and Farage will sort it out?
If there is chaos that doesn't subside and the worst predictions of 'project fear' are realised then ultimately the blame will go all the way back to where it belongs - Cameron.
Comments
Sooner or later, Italy will provoke another eurozone crisis. The flaws in the single currency are real, and have not gone away since the Greek and other crises a few years ago. It requires its members to deflate when they become uncompetitive; they cannot devalue their own currencies because they no longer exist.
Greece, crucially, was small enough to save. Italy is too big to fail, yet too big to save, also. As the third largest economy in the eurozone and with a vast national debt, it is beyond the means of the Germans to bail out, even assuming they wished to. Markets fear some sort of breakup of the eurozone, banks collapsing, political instability and much else spreading out from Italy towards the rest of "Club Med" and the EU in a wildfire of economic contagion. It could finish the euro; and that really does terrify Frankfurt, Brussels, Berlin and Paris - and financial players globally.”
Still - they need us more than we need them, eh...
So far as I can tell there were around 65,000 non EU university applications last year. So I could possibly believe that a total 120k "students" arrived in the UK. But I would expect roughly the same number to stop being students and either go home or become true "immigrants".
For what it's worth I think people come here because we need them to! We have worked hard and earned good pensions and rightly expect to be looked after when we get old. But, although we theoretically have the money, there are not enough people around to actually do the work required - so one way or another we have to constantly grow the population to keep the whole thing going!
It's obviously not sustainable but we will not resolve this until we realise that high immigration is a symptom of the problem. It is not the cause.
Italy is a whole other level of disaster waiting to happen and will make Brexit look like a tea party.
Before any fellow remainers have a whinge at me - I'll keep slagging off Germany until they no longer are the major problem in the EU. And I like Bauer and have no issue with the German people!
Also, I'm not sure TT was calling him a racist, but referring to the nonsense of labelling others racist simply for the way they voted.
My first post yesterday did not do what you say TT was referring to.
Yes I usually write LDV's name differently.
I frequently call him Eddie Stobart's Van and Truck for Hire.
If you think that is racist because he is from Belgium I accept that, I thought I was behaving more poetically when giving him that (what I would call) nickname. I also was trying to be kind of poetic in my first post yesterday by playing around with colours like in 'blue faces and white passports', but clearly I hit a nerve with some who see that as a racist comment.
I accept that some of my language play is clumsy and not especially poetic as is my intention.
I suppose British people giving out nicknames like 'Gobinson' or 'Cojones' are not 'racist' because Karl Robinson and Tony Keohane are fellow Brits.
The thing that I really can't get my head round is the fact that the sway of opinion hasn't changed that much.
I can honestly get why so many people voted to Leave, I was very, very close myself. Only changed my mind at the last minute.
But since the vote, the evidence that's been presented to us all as an electorate has been overwhelming of the lies. It's clear its going to be hugely damaging to the country as a whole and no-one from either side of the debate wants that, surely?
My friends that voted Leave now seem to refuse to debate, something they did with gusto in the lead up to the referendum but are adamant they'd vote the same way again, I just can't see why? They're people I respect and would value their opinions on most things, but what is it about the amount of evidence in this case that blinds people?
It's honestly the thing that concerns me the most as to the entrenched position despite SO MUCH evidence that says it will hurt us all.
How is there not a landslide of public opinion changing?
It's not a dig at those that haven't I promise, it's more me trying to understand why, and how this can be the situation?
As for people refusing to change, if you've been conned, why would you openingly admit it. Like the middle aged women who got ripped off by the fake Nigerian lover, you never admit you got ripped off. Until they get in the ballot box.
Thank you for your reply.
I have not therefore called you a racist so that is cleared up.
As for calling people out over names, can I look forward to you calling out those who say stuff like 'Gobinson', and 'Keohane' as racist?
It seems to me that because of our opposing views on almost everything you save specific allegations for me, when I share those same characteristics with other posters on this site who carry on free of allegations from you.
Mind you, I am not asking for you to be even handed or consistent, you can call me out as much as you like, but to interpret my nickname for LDV as racist behaviour, and therefore I am a racist, I think is very weak ground indeed.
If Macron decides to block imports from France then could someone explain how we'll get round this.
We seem to be in the midst of a slow motion car crash yet none of our useless politicians want to do anything about it.
If there is chaos at the ports and it's anywhere near as bad as predicted I'm assuming Bojo and Farage will sort it out?
It appears that the UK has nest-feathering politicians blaming the EU and Italy has crime tolerant politicians doing the same.