I cant see how ending freedom of movement will make our popululation greater & suggesting that unemployed people wont be able to go abroad to find work when most wont move half way across the country its plain stupid (or more project fear).
As for what you should have voted for ; no idea.....depends how strong your views were on why you wanted to leave the EU.......but I thought it was perfectly clear that leaving the EU meant ending free movement of people. If you didn't like that aspect it might have been better to vote remain.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
I fail to see how the sociological make up of over half a million people can be judged by the observations of cynical journalists, or anybody else either feeling positive or negative about the crowd. It was a lot of people after all.
Just wondering if anybody cares what the working class might think, especially you pro Corbyn class warriors. They do not seem to have been on the demo. But please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
That is complete rubbish - all classes were at the demo. There you go - corrected. I would say it was shy of thick, ignorant people but I think it is insulting if some are trying to say those sort of people are the working class.
But it isn't insulting to say those not on the march are thick and ignorant?
Which wasn't a criteria for not going on the march and not what I said. I'm sure the vast majority of people who did not go on the march were not thick and ignorant. The point is simple enough - how can people tell if somebody is from a working class background or not without speaking to them? And it isn't easy to speak to 700k people and know what class they represent. Actually, it is impossible. It is insulting and ignorant to suggest so.
I fail to see how the sociological make up of over half a million people can be judged by the observations of cynical journalists, or anybody else either feeling positive or negative about the crowd. It was a lot of people after all.
Just wondering if anybody cares what the working class might think, especially you pro Corbyn class warriors. They do not seem to have been on the demo. But please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
That is complete rubbish - all classes were at the demo. There you go - corrected. I would say it was shy of thick, ignorant people but I think it is insulting if some are trying to say those sort of people are the working class.
But it isn't insulting to say those not on the march are thick and ignorant?
Which wasn't a criteria for not going on the march and not what I said. I'm sure the vast majority of people who did not go on the march were not thick and ignorant. The point is simple enough - how can people tell if somebody is from a working class background or not without speaking to them? And it isn't easy to speak to 700k people and know what class they represent. Actually, it is impossible. It is insulting and ignorant to suggest so.
I have gone back and read your words again and still read it the way I interpreted it, but a am happy to accept that wasn't your intention.
I wasn't on the march but I think it would be silly to think the working classes were not represented by their presence. I don't believe this is necessarily a class issue.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
I fail to see how the sociological make up of over half a million people can be judged by the observations of cynical journalists, or anybody else either feeling positive or negative about the crowd. It was a lot of people after all.
Just wondering if anybody cares what the working class might think, especially you pro Corbyn class warriors. They do not seem to have been on the demo. But please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
That is complete rubbish - all classes were at the demo. There you go - corrected. I would say it was shy of thick, ignorant people but I think it is insulting if some are trying to say those sort of people are the working class.
But it isn't insulting to say those not on the march are thick and ignorant?
Which wasn't a criteria for not going on the march and not what I said. I'm sure the vast majority of people who did not go on the march were not thick and ignorant. The point is simple enough - how can people tell if somebody is from a working class background or not without speaking to them? And it isn't easy to speak to 700k people and know what class they represent. Actually, it is impossible. It is insulting and ignorant to suggest so.
I fail to see how the sociological make up of over half a million people can be judged by the observations of cynical journalists, or anybody else either feeling positive or negative about the crowd. It was a lot of people after all.
Just wondering if anybody cares what the working class might think, especially you pro Corbyn class warriors. They do not seem to have been on the demo. But please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
That is complete rubbish - all classes were at the demo. There you go - corrected. I would say it was shy of thick, ignorant people but I think it is insulting if some are trying to say those sort of people are the working class.
But it isn't insulting to say those not on the march are thick and ignorant?
Which wasn't a criteria for not going on the march and not what I said. I'm sure the vast majority of people who did not go on the march were not thick and ignorant. The point is simple enough - how can people tell if somebody is from a working class background or not without speaking to them? And it isn't easy to speak to 700k people and know what class they represent. Actually, it is impossible. It is insulting and ignorant to suggest so.
I have gone back and read your words again and still read it the way I interpreted it, but a am happy to accept that wasn't your intention.
I wasn't on the march but I think it would be silly to think the working classes were not represented by their presence. I don't believe this is necessarily a class issue.
I used it as an exageration to highlight how can anybody work out the individual or collective class of 700k people. The point I was making, or trying to make, is what does the working class look like that makes them so easy to identify? The original tweet should have been called out for what it was.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Seems that it is for some... (6th time - have you actually watched it?)
I cant see how ending freedom of movement will make our popululation greater & suggesting that unemployed people wont be able to go abroad to find work when most wont move half way across the country its plain stupid (or more project fear).
As for what you should have voted for ; no idea.....depends how strong your views were on why you wanted to leave the EU.......but I thought it was perfectly clear that leaving the EU meant ending free movement of people. If you didn't like that aspect it might have been better to vote remain.
But the point is that the referendum result is NOT a mandate to end freedom of movement. That was not the question on the paper!
When there was a referendum for Scotland to leave the UK, there was no question on either side of stopping free movement between the countries. Hardly anyone wanted or would have voted for that!
I cant see how ending freedom of movement will make our popululation greater & suggesting that unemployed people wont be able to go abroad to find work when most wont move half way across the country its plain stupid (or more project fear).
As for what you should have voted for ; no idea.....depends how strong your views were on why you wanted to leave the EU.......but I thought it was perfectly clear that leaving the EU meant ending free movement of people. If you didn't like that aspect it might have been better to vote remain.
But the point is that the referendum result is NOT a mandate to end freedom of movement. That was not the question on the paper!
When there was a referendum for Scotland to leave the UK, there was no question on either side of stopping free movement between the countries. Hardly anyone wanted or would have voted for that!
Why is the EU referendum any different?
Because some people were lead to believe that it was, by a bunch of liars. They were hoodwinked, and now they blame everyone and everything other than their own stupidity...
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
The usual racist rubbish from you Seth. Very disappointing that you refuse to grasp this aspect. Tbh I think that this view undermines any legimate objections to Brexit that you might have.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Seems that it is for some... (6th time - have you actually watched it?)
I’m pretty sure there’s another YouTube video that shows politicians (probably some of the same ones in the video you posted!) clearly stating that voting leave did mean leaving the SM & CU. Basically no one really knew what the future relationship would be with the EU if we voted to leave, which is why we’re in the mess that we are but it also creates the opportunity for people to define Brexit in terms of what they personally think it should mean meaning we probably have 65M versions of what the result of the vote should mean.
Contrast this with a sensible nation like Ireland who recently held an important referendum where the terms of a vote one way or other were clearly defined and agreed upon before the referendum so there could be very little room for the silliness we’ve seen in our country after the referendum result was known.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Seems that it is for some... (6th time - have you actually watched it?)
I’m pretty sure there’s another YouTube video that shows politicians (probably some of the same ones in the video you posted!) clearly stating that voting leave did mean leaving the SM & CU. Basically no one really knew what the future relationship would be with the EU if we voted to leave, which is why we’re in the mess that we are but it also creates the opportunity for people to define Brexit in terms of what they personally think it should mean meaning we probably have 65M versions of what the result of the vote should mean.
Contrast this with a sensible nation like Ireland who recently held an important referendum where the terms of a vote one way or other were clearly defined and agreed upon before the referendum so there could be very little room for the silliness we’ve seen in our country after the referendum result was known.
That's kind of the point I am making SE9. They said whatever it took to get their way, depending on who they were talking to. People who had already made up their mind to vote leave, because of forty years of (mostly right wing) press hostility to the Common Market/EEC/EU being drip-fed into their lives, just heard what they wanted to hear...
This is an interesting insight into what the future may bring in the WTO "utopia", from what is (as far as I am aware) a fairly neutral source.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Yes remain voters like me ought to contemplate whether wider EU immigration policy is racist.
I think it fundamentally and institutionally is actually. I would happily move towards a situation of no borders and no restrictions in terms of people moving, living and working wheresoever they choose. The current march in South and Central America and Mexico is quite an interesting case in point, and as far as I am concerned those people should march right in to the United States.
Did not millions of Europeans (and others) start that whole process off by marching in to that land, deciding to take over, and then doing their level best to eliminate the aboriginal population there, as the British led migrations to Australia also did there?
I don't see the answer to the world population crisis as being one where individual territories and forces establish barriers.
So yes you are right there is a racist element to EU policy I would say.
I don't see the answer to that as being in a place that aspires to be even worse though.
I certainly see no reason at all to boast about either the UK or the EU immigration policy, however my solution is not to withdraw and ally myself either with those who demonstrate overt relish ('picanniny' Johnson for example, or the Farage migrant poster, or endless right wing anti immigrant newspaper headlines) or axiomatically to racist policies by voting on the same side. Do I need to mention the increase in racist hate crime in the UK following the referendum?
Anyway my approach is to now accept defeat and challenge the brexit winners to implement their victory. I will not be lifting a finger to help them though.
It is a surreal situation I find myself in, because I feel exiled in this place since the referendum result. I have taken care to describe the actions of the 'UK' in this debate, never we, or 'our', or us, because despite the accident of my birth taking place in Erith, and my huge love and affection for so many aspects of this land, I certainly do not see myself as part of 'we' or 'us' and that it is ours. It is almost like having an our of body experience gazing down on the land I live in and hardly recognising it because of the mystery of the brexit referendum result.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Tier 2 points based works just as well.
For whom?
Highly skilled non-EU migrants.
I can't see how a Tier 2 Visa, which has a dependency on a CoS from an employer, works as 'well' as an independent Tier 1 visa that assess the skills the person can bring to the UK economy and gives them unrestricted access to the UK job market?
Just a few examples of why I disagree:
- for a company to offer sponsorship, regardless of candidate points, the position needs to be advertised in at least two places to the UK labour market for a minimum of 30 days to give those eligible to work in the UK without restriction the chance to apply (unless it's an intra-company transfer of the applicant has a Tier 4 visa).
- If the Highly Skilled person want's to change jobs, they are restricted to employers who have a Home Office CoS and have followed the above guidelines. The do not have unrestricted access to the UK job market as a result.
- In the event of employment termination (redundancy or otherwise) the person has a limited timeframe to find a new sponsor (again regardless of points) or they are deported.
- Most Tier 2 visa holders will say themselves that they face extreme prejudice in the UK job market, with most recruiters and employers not even willing to consider applications from them given the admin, time and cost association.
To be fair, I hate the term 'highly-skilled'. I strongly believe that If / When we leave the EU and have 'control' (whatever that is) the term should be changed to 'Critical Workers' to cover all of the skills we will need in the UK moving forward and the old style Tier 1 visas should be re-introduced.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Don’t forget that The Chequers plan had something called the common rule book. A customs union of sorts but one that the EU couldn’t agree to. Perhaps that’s where movement has happened. Similar with Labours “A” customs union.
Regardless the Brexit loons won’t like it. For what it’s worth I think the loonies are seeing their Brexit slipping away. Having May replaced at some strategic point over the next few months with Davis would put that back on track. I still think she be done for before the end of March.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Don’t forget that The Chequers plan had something called the common rule book. A customs union of sorts but one that the EU couldn’t agree to. Perhaps that’s where movement has happened. Similar with Labours “A” customs union.
Regardless the Brexit loons won’t like it. For what it’s worth I think the loonies are seeing their Brexit slipping away. Having May replaced at some strategic point over the next few months with Davis would put that back on track. I still think she be done for before the end of March.
Remember all that Project Fear talk about Brits needing visas to travel in the EU.
Yesterday before heading home to Prague, I attended a discussion hosted by the New Europeans group. This guy ( a professor, at one of the London Unis) repeated what he tweets here.
There are several Lifers currently resident in France. Someone tip off Ibborg, since he doesn't seem to appreciate it when I drag him back to this thread, as he sees it...
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Great post
Certainly was.
What is interesting however is that in the year ending March 2018, there was a net influx of 235k non EU people and 87k from the EU. What I'd really be interested in is the stats on what these people were coming for. I suppose a lot of the non-EU people are students. People still are jumping through hoops to get here, it's not impossible.
I could be wrong but I am sure I read somewhere that the Europesn Central Bank stops ‘supporting’ Italy at the end of this year.
This has been a while coming but was inevitable.
You may well be right. I won't profess to knowing anything of the situation, but it's probably something the EU can live without on top of us leaving.
This was it;
“Thus far, the crisis has not turned critical because the European Central Bank has been willing (well not willing exactly, but obliged) to buy Italian bonds to help keep the country and its banking system going. That policy is being wound down and finishes at end 2018, and is in any case unsustainable without a wider reform of the eurozone into a fiscal union, as President Macron proposes.”
May was hinting at a customs union so perhaps that’s not true @""seth plum" Only problem of course is that Davis, Mogg et al won’t accept it. Suits the DUP though so it could come to a very close vote if the rest of what’s on the table satisfies Labours six tests.
Personally I now think David Davis will be PM before the end of March. That way the Tories survive because they won’t under any circumstances call a general election.
Until the extreme brexiteers say a customs union is not brexit. If David Davis ends up in charge perhaps he will magic up the easiest trade deal ever as he promised. Incidentally regarding the land border in Ireland, Davis has lined up firmly behind the non existent, and unworkable 'technological' solution, dressed up with these ridiculous 'trusted trader' ideas, and local exemptions. That all translates into Davis has no solution to the Irish border question.
Well, seeing as staying in THE Customs Union means keeping freedom of trade & movement of people then I would have to agree that its not Brexit.
its not that hard to understand is it.
Everybody knows the real brexit is blue faces and white passports. Have I got that right?
Freedom of movement has meant that pressure to decrease immigration has led to various visa categories (Tier 1 HSMP visa being one example) being abolished. 90% of HSMP applicants were Indian.
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Great post
Certainly was.
What is interesting however is that in the year ending March 2018, there was a net influx of 235k non EU people and 87k from the EU. What I'd really be interested in is the stats on what these people were coming for. I suppose a lot of the non-EU people are students. People still are jumping through hoops to get here, it's not impossible.
From memory, I think that about half the non EU net figure is made up of students. I have never understood why May insists they remain part of the immigration figures and only skew the reality of true immigration IMO.
Comments
As for what you should have voted for ; no idea.....depends how strong your views were on why you wanted to leave the EU.......but I thought it was perfectly clear that leaving the EU meant ending free movement of people. If you didn't like that aspect it might have been better to vote remain.
Have I got that right?
I wasn't on the march but I think it would be silly to think the working classes were not represented by their presence. I don't believe this is necessarily a class issue.
When there was a referendum for Scotland to leave the UK, there was no question on either side of stopping free movement between the countries. Hardly anyone wanted or would have voted for that!
Why is the EU referendum any different?
Given that casually throwing around racism accusations seems acceptable, is it possible that you, I and the rest of our fellow remain voters look closer to home? We've voted to stay part of an elite club that leads to the discrimination of non-Europeans and seem quite happy to boast about it.
Contrast this with a sensible nation like Ireland who recently held an important referendum where the terms of a vote one way or other were clearly defined and agreed upon before the referendum so there could be very little room for the silliness we’ve seen in our country after the referendum result was known.
This is an interesting insight into what the future may bring in the WTO "utopia", from what is (as far as I am aware) a fairly neutral source.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2018-10-17/how-tiny-moldova-s-brexit-grudge-could-cost-u-k-1-7-trillion?fbclid=IwAR0YqkMJ7CeZHknisknLZouBOsSqyC1bh3tkUDRapgXvT2zBHDhIs2V-NAc
I think it fundamentally and institutionally is actually. I would happily move towards a situation of no borders and no restrictions in terms of people moving, living and working wheresoever they choose. The current march in South and Central America and Mexico is quite an interesting case in point, and as far as I am concerned those people should march right in to the United States.
Did not millions of Europeans (and others) start that whole process off by marching in to that land, deciding to take over, and then doing their level best to eliminate the aboriginal population there, as the British led migrations to Australia also did there?
I don't see the answer to the world population crisis as being one where individual territories and forces establish barriers.
So yes you are right there is a racist element to EU policy I would say.
I don't see the answer to that as being in a place that aspires to be even worse though.
I certainly see no reason at all to boast about either the UK or the EU immigration policy, however my solution is not to withdraw and ally myself either with those who demonstrate overt relish ('picanniny' Johnson for example, or the Farage migrant poster, or endless right wing anti immigrant newspaper headlines) or axiomatically to racist policies by voting on the same side. Do I need to mention the increase in racist hate crime in the UK following the referendum?
Anyway my approach is to now accept defeat and challenge the brexit winners to implement their victory. I will not be lifting a finger to help them though.
It is a surreal situation I find myself in, because I feel exiled in this place since the referendum result. I have taken care to describe the actions of the 'UK' in this debate, never we, or 'our', or us, because despite the accident of my birth taking place in Erith, and my huge love and affection for so many aspects of this land, I certainly do not see myself as part of 'we' or 'us' and that it is ours. It is almost like having an our of body experience gazing down on the land I live in and hardly recognising it because of the mystery of the brexit referendum result.
Just a few examples of why I disagree:
- for a company to offer sponsorship, regardless of candidate points, the position needs to be advertised in at least two places to the UK labour market for a minimum of 30 days to give those eligible to work in the UK without restriction the chance to apply (unless it's an intra-company transfer of the applicant has a Tier 4 visa).
- If the Highly Skilled person want's to change jobs, they are restricted to employers who have a Home Office CoS and have followed the above guidelines. The do not have unrestricted access to the UK job market as a result.
- In the event of employment termination (redundancy or otherwise) the person has a limited timeframe to find a new sponsor (again regardless of points) or they are deported.
- Most Tier 2 visa holders will say themselves that they face extreme prejudice in the UK job market, with most recruiters and employers not even willing to consider applications from them given the admin, time and cost association.
To be fair, I hate the term 'highly-skilled'. I strongly believe that If / When we leave the EU and have 'control' (whatever that is) the term should be changed to 'Critical Workers' to cover all of the skills we will need in the UK moving forward and the old style Tier 1 visas should be re-introduced.
@MuttleyCAFC
Regardless the Brexit loons won’t like it. For what it’s worth I think the loonies are seeing their Brexit slipping away. Having May replaced at some strategic point over the next few months with Davis would put that back on track. I still think she be done for before the end of March.
BruteBoris?Yesterday before heading home to Prague, I attended a discussion hosted by the New Europeans group. This guy ( a professor, at one of the London Unis) repeated what he tweets here.
There are several Lifers currently resident in France. Someone tip off Ibborg, since he doesn't seem to appreciate it when I drag him back to this thread, as he sees it...
Italy really is a basket case
This has been a while coming but was inevitable.
#bluepassports
What is interesting however is that in the year ending March 2018, there was a net influx of 235k non EU people and 87k from the EU. What I'd really be interested in is the stats on what these people were coming for. I suppose a lot of the non-EU people are students. People still are jumping through hoops to get here, it's not impossible.
“Thus far, the crisis has not turned critical because the European Central Bank has been willing (well not willing exactly, but obliged) to buy Italian bonds to help keep the country and its banking system going. That policy is being wound down and finishes at end 2018, and is in any case unsustainable without a wider reform of the eurozone into a fiscal union, as President Macron proposes.”