Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
Yes, but they're the same people that would never vote for Ed Milliband either or anyone with a red rosette for that matter. In the same way there's swathes of the population who will never vote Tory even if Jesus Christ himself stood with a blue rosette.
Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
Yes, but they're the same people that would never vote for Ed Milliband either or anyone with a red rosette for that matter. In the same way there's swathes of the population who will never vote Tory even if Jesus Christ himself stood with a blue rosette.
Had people voted for Milliband, we wouldn't have had the referendum and the country would be a lot more stable now. What we got was Cameron adopting Millibands policies apart from the referendum anyway! Still the press told us what a disaster it would be!
There would be no way to achieve the frictionless cross-border trade that everyone says they want, in terms of animal-derived products if the article is right. The EU27 nations would demand that all UK agrifood exports would have to undergo tests at the limited number of approved veterinary border inspection posts (BIPs) available (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1538041486901&uri=CELEX:32009D0821), obviously, there are none on the Irish border, but the Dover-Calais route is also not covered. Unless the UK is prepared to allow in all food products from the EU (and those transiting through the Eu from third countries) without any form of sanitary or phyto-sanitary testing, it will also have to begin such testing.
Paying more tax to fund what the country genuinely needs and makes it a better place to live is not something I have a problem with in any way shape or form.
I earn a very good salary, and would gladly pay more tax if it went to the right places, particularly social care and those that genuinely need it most.
Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
Yes, but they're the same people that would never vote for Ed Milliband either or anyone with a red rosette for that matter. In the same way there's swathes of the population who will never vote Tory even if Jesus Christ himself stood with a blue rosette.
Had people voted for Milliband, we wouldn't have had the referendum and the country would be a lot more stable now. What we got was Cameron adopting Millibands policies apart from the referendum anyway! Still the press told us what a disaster it would be!
Exactly, my point is that there are plenty on both sides who will only vote one way regardless of who the leader is. But "who the leader is" is always used to bash a party and as an excuse at all times in history.
For a while now I have felt that May should simply go cap in hand to Barnier and ask for an extension to Article 50, because there is absolutely no way that the country can be ready for 29 3.19. Have you noticed just how close that date is now?
That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.
Francois P 28 minutes ago No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.
Pasquino 1 hour ago A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.
Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.
Till S. 1 hour ago No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.
You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.
"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"
Tough. Who cares? You had enough time.
It’s good to see it in print but it’s obvious that would be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens. I’m British and don’t want Brexit but I find it hard to disagree with the above sentiment.
If that’s the reaction of a large proportion of EU citizens then it’s good to know that ignorance of how damaging Brexit will be across the U.K. & EU isn’t limited to our own deluded Brexiteers.
My perception of the Europeans that I come into contact with is most think this is as silly as most Charlton Life members on this thread appear to and want a sensible outcome rather than the “screw them” attitude reflected in the comments posted by Prague.
Yes, that is my personal experience too. However, my contacts find it hard to see signs that the UK know how to negotiate in a way which produces that sensible outcome (which would be a grown up win-win approach or at least a "minimal loss-loss" one). Now, as another poster points out, Article 50 timeline is extendable, but in his/her words, "you have to ask nicely". So my point is, are we behaving in a way which makes it even possible to ask nicely, and in a way which would be taken seriously? Because if we are going to ask, the time is coming up. In the next big scheduled meeting, I would say...
Thank you for this link. Can you point out even one word on this clip where he says there will be anything good about brexit?
Facts4eu.org look at the bit where the single market commissioner who is on 250k salary states that 80% of the single market doesn't work for the UK. And that is the EU commissioner saying that, not me not the mail not the express.
Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
Yes, but they're the same people that would never vote for Ed Milliband either or anyone with a red rosette for that matter. In the same way there's swathes of the population who will never vote Tory even if Jesus Christ himself stood with a blue rosette.
Had people voted for Milliband, we wouldn't have had the referendum and the country would be a lot more stable now. What we got was Cameron adopting Millibands policies apart from the referendum anyway! Still the press told us what a disaster it would be!
Exactly, my point is that there are plenty on both sides who will only vote one way regardless of who the leader is. But "who the leader is" is always used to bash a party and as an excuse at all times in history.
The last manifesto sold Corbyn's Labour Party to me. I was actually very anti Corbyn before it.
Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
Yes, but they're the same people that would never vote for Ed Milliband either or anyone with a red rosette for that matter. In the same way there's swathes of the population who will never vote Tory even if Jesus Christ himself stood with a blue rosette.
Had people voted for Milliband, we wouldn't have had the referendum and the country would be a lot more stable now. What we got was Cameron adopting Millibands policies apart from the referendum anyway! Still the press told us what a disaster it would be!
Exactly, my point is that there are plenty on both sides who will only vote one way regardless of who the leader is. But "who the leader is" is always used to bash a party and as an excuse at all times in history.
The last manifesto sold Corbyn's Labour Party to me. I was actually very anti Corbyn before it.
As it did me, that's exactly my point.
I stand by the fact it was a fantastic manifesto and I can only hope that someday in my lifetime something along that lines could be attempted to be put into practice and reality.
There would be no way to achieve the frictionless cross-border trade that everyone says they want, in terms of animal-derived products if the article is right. The EU27 nations would demand that all UK agrifood exports would have to undergo tests at the limited number of approved veterinary border inspection posts (BIPs) available (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1538041486901&uri=CELEX:32009D0821), obviously, there are none on the Irish border, but the Dover-Calais route is also not covered. Unless the UK is prepared to allow in all food products from the EU (and those transiting through the Eu from third countries) without any form of sanitary or phyto-sanitary testing, it will also have to begin such testing.
I know you get it @NornIrishAddick as this is something we've both been raising since the vote (and, in my case at least, before). But I genuinely think most Leavers still don't understand the concept and aims of the Single Market and why it is impossible to have a truly frictionless border as a third country. And it's not necessarily their fault either.
The fact that only fairly recently the Tories have moved the focus onto regulatory alignment/mutual recognition from their previous (and blinkered imo) concentration on tariffs, etc. is indicative of their approach to the whole shebang and supported by the Brexit supporting press; pretend that it's a minor, technical detail that can be ignored and maybe sorted out through technology later. It's not, never was and can't be.
Somebody, somewhere, will need to start examining those products, including livestock, entering the EU from the UK to ensure compliance with EU standards and laws. And vice versa. This has to happen the minute we leave the EU to maintain the integrity of the SM and for the shiny new laws we are going to implement as part of taking back control.
People take the pee over my focus on chlorinated chicken(!) but it illustrates perfectly the problem. If we let the US get its way, which we know they're pushing against an open door on, we can forget about the chances of our food exports being remotely competitive into the EU because of the additional checks and measures that will be needed. At best what will happen is the non-chlorinated chucks or no antibiotic stuffed beef will go up in price because they will now be a premium product.
Thank you for this link. Can you point out even one word on this clip where he says there will be anything good about brexit?
Facts4eu.org look at the bit where the single market commissioner who is on 250k salary states that 80% of the single market doesn't work for the UK. And that is the EU commissioner saying that, not me not the mail not the express.
The clip that was linked didn't have one positive word regarding brexit. If 80% of the single market 'doesn't work for the UK' (and it is unclear what 'work' or working might actually mean), then how does brexit make whatever the UK aspires to better? Isn't 20% of something better than 100% of nothing?
For a while now I have felt that May should simply go cap in hand to Barnier and ask for an extension to Article 50, because there is absolutely no way that the country can be ready for 29 3.19. Have you noticed just how close that date is now?
That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.
Francois P 28 minutes ago No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.
Pasquino 1 hour ago A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.
Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.
Till S. 1 hour ago No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.
You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.
"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"
Tough. Who cares? You had enough time.
It’s good to see it in print but it’s obvious that would be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens. I’m British and don’t want Brexit but I find it hard to disagree with the above sentiment.
If that’s the reaction of a large proportion of EU citizens then it’s good to know that ignorance of how damaging Brexit will be across the U.K. & EU isn’t limited to our own deluded Brexiteers.
My perception of the Europeans that I come into contact with is most think this is as silly as most Charlton Life members on this thread appear to and want a sensible outcome rather than the “screw them” attitude reflected in the comments posted by Prague.
Yes, that is my personal experience too. However, my contacts find it hard to see signs that the UK know how to negotiate in a way which produces that sensible outcome (which would be a grown up win-win approach or at least a "minimal loss-loss" one). Now, as another poster points out, Article 50 timeline is extendable, but in his/her words, "you have to ask nicely". So my point is, are we behaving in a way which makes it even possible to ask nicely, and in a way which would be taken seriously? Because if we are going to ask, the time is coming up. In the next big scheduled meeting, I would say...
No we aren’t. However my issue was more that the comments you posted, and the follow up comment from another poster was that these responses would “be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens” and, based on my experience, I don’t believe that to be the case.
Now the onus is definitely on our side to show some reasonability but I’m not really expecting that to happen without a change of government.
Thank you for this link. Can you point out even one word on this clip where he says there will be anything good about brexit?
Facts4eu.org look at the bit where the single market commissioner who is on 250k salary states that 80% of the single market doesn't work for the UK. And that is the EU commissioner saying that, not me not the mail not the express.
The clip that was linked didn't have one positive word regarding brexit. If 80% of the single market 'doesn't work for the UK' (and it is unclear what 'work' or working might actually mean), then how does brexit make whatever the UK aspires to better? Isn't 20% of something better than 100% of nothing?
Lol like the guardian then... Its all facts based from EU reports and papers, not good reading is it. But you said being in the SM was so wonderful. I think you need to read again.... All of it... And if you still think voting remain was the right option, you clearly did not know what you voted for.
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
Classic Brexiteer!
Is that a new special interest magazine in WH Smiths, just up the shelf from the partworks collections?
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
Classic Brexiteer!
Is that a new special interest magazine in WH Smiths, just up the shelf from the partworks collections?
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
Hundreds of pages and you use 1 paragraph... Classic remainers
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
Classic Brexiteer!
Is that a new special interest magazine in WH Smiths, just up the shelf from the partworks collections?
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
I actually did the same (for my sins). It really is quite comical.
In the interests of balance I've just had a look at the https://facts4eu.org/bbp.shtml#1 "Brexit Battle Pack". As expected it's riddled with the usual "metropolitan elite" conspiracy, "the media are full of Remoaners", anti "Remainiac Guardian" nonsense, being long on rhetoric, short on data and designed to foster a victim mentality.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.
What do you think of the SM commissioners comments then about the EU still shafting us... And also they are heading defence reviews into the EU army, something your other hero Clegg said was brexiter fantasy land. Carpet getting lifted and getting swept under again.
Comments
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.express.co.uk/videos/553380/Marc-Roche-Britain-will-become-very-big-danger-for-EU&ved=2ahUKEwiqv-_84NrdAhUbM8AKHXMuCHo4ChAWMAV6BAgEEAE&usg=AOvVaw2CsMp9VlKUfWwSOJ6fBeSZ
Can you point out even one word on this clip where he says there will be anything good about brexit?
There would be no way to achieve the frictionless cross-border trade that everyone says they want, in terms of animal-derived products if the article is right. The EU27 nations would demand that all UK agrifood exports would have to undergo tests at the limited number of approved veterinary border inspection posts (BIPs) available (https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?qid=1538041486901&uri=CELEX:32009D0821), obviously, there are none on the Irish border, but the Dover-Calais route is also not covered. Unless the UK is prepared to allow in all food products from the EU (and those transiting through the Eu from third countries) without any form of sanitary or phyto-sanitary testing, it will also have to begin such testing.
I stand by the fact it was a fantastic manifesto and I can only hope that someday in my lifetime something along that lines could be attempted to be put into practice and reality.
The fact that only fairly recently the Tories have moved the focus onto regulatory alignment/mutual recognition from their previous (and blinkered imo) concentration on tariffs, etc. is indicative of their approach to the whole shebang and supported by the Brexit supporting press; pretend that it's a minor, technical detail that can be ignored and maybe sorted out through technology later. It's not, never was and can't be.
Somebody, somewhere, will need to start examining those products, including livestock, entering the EU from the UK to ensure compliance with EU standards and laws. And vice versa. This has to happen the minute we leave the EU to maintain the integrity of the SM and for the shiny new laws we are going to implement as part of taking back control.
People take the pee over my focus on chlorinated chicken(!) but it illustrates perfectly the problem. If we let the US get its way, which we know they're pushing against an open door on, we can forget about the chances of our food exports being remotely competitive into the EU because of the additional checks and measures that will be needed. At best what will happen is the non-chlorinated chucks or no antibiotic stuffed beef will go up in price because they will now be a premium product.
This is quite a sobering thought.
If 80% of the single market 'doesn't work for the UK' (and it is unclear what 'work' or working might actually mean), then how does brexit make whatever the UK aspires to better?
Isn't 20% of something better than 100% of nothing?
Now the onus is definitely on our side to show some reasonability but I’m not really expecting that to happen without a change of government.
Given this is a resource designed for Leavers to lobby for a hard Brexit it might have contained more useful "facts" to include in leavers letters of complaint to the BBC, etc however it's best summed up by their explanation;
"We would love to provide you with a selection of some 'killer charts and facts' which we have researched and produced on all topics related to EU membership. Unfortunately we simply don't have the resources to put these together in a summary as we are grossly underfunded."
Hmm, I expect that's the only reason they aren't included then...and yes I'm also aware that there are going to be Remainer versions of something similar too.