Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
That’s very possible but times they are a changing. Ten years of austerity. Brexit fiasco orchestrated with stunning incompetence by the Conservatives and a government literally tearing itself apart. Perhaps a stark choice but don’t forget that Brexit was never going to be voted for and Trump could never become President.
Corbyn clawed back a lot of ground against all predictions (including mine) at the last election so I wouldn’t write him off yet.
Thatcher wasn’t exactly Keynesian and didn’t scare off the electorate then did it?
A left wing government hasn’t been elected for over 40 years. I’m afraid the old saying is very true: those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and socialists are one of the most stubborn groups going.
The promise to end the 'greed-is-good' culture was a curious promise to make, if not only because it is completely impossible to end a compensatory human behaviour borne from experiences.
Plenty of other wishy-washy, impossible to implement/deliver on promises. Sounds good, no doubt, though.
I tend to agree - just a soundbite. Perhaps this is another way of saying it:
To secure for the workers by hand or by brain the full fruits of their industry and the most equitable distribution thereof that may be possible upon the basis of the common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, and the best obtainable system of popular administration and control of each industry or service.
Sounds very similar (identical, in fact) to Clause IV of the Labour Constitution of 1918
Also, very soshulist.
Oi! Not even @PragueAddick (CL royalty) is allowed to get away with that.
Credit where credit is due. Corbyn is getting better at this. He is currently delivering an excellent speech. Measured in tone, skilfully delivered and full of relevant and pertinent content setting out the new Labour policy (in contrast to the ridiculous shouty and childish references to Spanish civil war 80 years ago by Emily Thornbury). It is a real shame that he and the Labour leadership have such a blind spot about Brexit and don't seem to realise that after Brexit there will be no scope to finance any of their new policies and they won't be able to protect the working classes who will be most affected by it.
Just don’t ask him about anything he’s done in the past or people and organisations he’s supported.
Credit where credit is due. Corbyn is getting better at this. He is currently delivering an excellent speech. Measured in tone, skilfully delivered and full of relevant and pertinent content setting out the new Labour policy (in contrast to the ridiculous shouty and childish references to Spanish civil war 80 years ago by Emily Thornbury). It is a real shame that he and the Labour leadership have such a blind spot about Brexit and don't seem to realise that after Brexit there will be no scope to finance any of their new policies and they won't be able to protect the working classes who will be most affected by it.
Just don’t ask him about anything he’s done in the past or people and organisations he’s supported.
A lot of water to flow under the bridge yet but Survation the pollsters who called the last election against the opinion of all the other polling predictions have labour four points ahead. What rabbit can May pull out of the hat that will change that. She’s got a split party. A no Brexit or Chequers (ish) deal to put before Parliament with the very likely prospect she’ll lose and a vote of no confidence. Looking like an uphill struggle fir the Tories if you ask me.
Credit where credit is due. Corbyn is getting better at this. He is currently delivering an excellent speech. Measured in tone, skilfully delivered and full of relevant and pertinent content setting out the new Labour policy (in contrast to the ridiculous shouty and childish references to Spanish civil war 80 years ago by Emily Thornbury). It is a real shame that he and the Labour leadership have such a blind spot about Brexit and don't seem to realise that after Brexit there will be no scope to finance any of their new policies and they won't be able to protect the working classes who will be most affected by it.
Just don’t ask him about anything he’s done in the past or people and organisations he’s supported.
Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Mate, he couldn’t even be bothered to wear a jacket that fitted him. What are you actually impressed with. The tenuous conditions put on May for the Labour Party to support a Brexit plan or the signing to Trex?
Honestly, party bias aside it was a speech given by a man trying to make the country a socialist state but knowing it is never going to happen.
I really want a credible alternative but while labour have this goon in charge, it ain’t ever gonna happen.
In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.
I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.
Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.
Earlier today Bruno Le Maire, the french finance minister, announced that "If we give the idea that we can exit the European Union and keep all of the benefits of the single market then it is the end of Europe" This has been the key to the European position, and has been set out again and again.
May has managed to deliberately avoid this concept as she cobbled together her Chequers plan. If we are to leave, then we have two choices: a Norway model that keep the 4 freedoms or a hard Brexit that will decimate the UK economy. Which option do we think Labour is closer to? Here's a clue: Labour wish that the UK is in "a Customs Union" and have access to the single market, whilst Sir Keir Starmer openly talks to a Norway option.
Labour have avoided the immigration debate because, quite frankly, it's toxic. Only now, two years after the referendum has the electorate's concern about immigration reduced to normal levels after being stoked up by Farage, Johnson, The Mail and Express. Polls show that the electorate is balanced between immigration controls and access to the single market but when faced with all or nothing which way would Labour go? Perhaps we will stay in the EEA and the Alt-right will attempt to rise again with their dog whistle politics? But will people be fooled again?
Most but not all of the electorate know that the Norway option is obviously worse than what we have at present, while the second is a catastrophe. So perhaps staying in the EU is the best option? Or perhaps we leave the EU but stay in the EEA?
For what it's worth Corbyn, McDonnell and Starmer along with the 300 delegates in the composite meeting have now paved the way to play a winning hand over the next few months. For they can now claim that they can both cut a Brexit deal with M.Barnier AND that they may well give the final choice to the people.
There appears to be no deal that exists which is acceptable to M.Barnier, May, the DUP and the ERG and that means that May is headed for "no deal". This in turn puts the Tory remainers in the frame - they are the people who can stop this train wreck. Those on the EU side have offered to extend the October deadline to November giving just two months from today - do we really think May is going to deliver something which is compliant with EU priorities?
In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.
I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.
Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.
Actually you are slightly wrong. Sephardic Jews who can prove that their relatives were expelled from Spain from 1492 onwards can obtain a Spanish passport and keep their old one, but only until Oct 2019.
In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.
I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.
Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.
Actually you are slightly wrong. Sephardic Jews who can prove that their relatives were expelled from Spain from 1492 onwards can obtain a Spanish passport and keep their old one, but only until Oct 2019.
Earlier today Bruno Le Maire, the french finance minister, announced that "If we give the idea that we can exit the European Union and keep all of the benefits of the single market then it is the end of Europe" This has been the key to the European position, and has been set out again and again.
May has managed to deliberately avoid this concept as she cobbled together her Chequers plan. If we are to leave, then we have two choices: a Norway model that keep the 4 freedoms or a hard Brexit that will decimate the UK economy. Which option do we think Labour is closer to? Here's a clue: Labour wish that the UK is in "a Customs Union" and have access to the single market, whilst Sir Keir Starmer openly talks to a Norway option.
Labour have avoided the immigration debate because, quite frankly, it's toxic. Only now, two years after the referendum has the electorate's concern about immigration reduced to normal levels after being stoked up by Farage, Johnson, The Mail and Express. Polls show that the electorate is balanced between immigration controls and access to the single market but when faced with all or nothing which way would Labour go? Perhaps we will stay in the EEA and the Alt-right will attempt to rise again with their dog whistle politics? But will people be fooled again?
Most but not all of the electorate know that the Norway option is obviously worse than what we have at present, while the second is a catastrophe. So perhaps staying in the EU is the best option? Or perhaps we leave the EU but stay in the EEA?
For what it's worth Corbyn, McDonnell and Starmer along with the 300 delegates in the composite meeting have now paved the way to play a winning hand over the next few months. For they can now claim that they can both cut a Brexit deal with M.Barnier AND that they may well give the final choice to the people.
There appears to be no deal that exists which is acceptable to M.Barnier, May, the DUP and the ERG and that means that May is headed for "no deal". This in turn puts the Tory remainers in the frame - they are the people who can stop this train wreck. Those on the EU side have offered to extend the October deadline to November giving just two months from today - do we really think May is going to deliver something which is compliant with EU priorities?
This has been blindingly obvious from the offset and I think it is an understandable position.
You can tell when Corbyn's done a good speech, because the attack dogs on here suddenly get much more virulent
Tony Blair was brilliant at making good speeches.
Just sayin'
And, for all that some will believe that what he has said about a possible Brexit outcome today, the EU27 will still only agree to a political statement on a future trading relationship if that recognises the constitutional, legal foundations on which the EU is constructed.
Just as with the Government approach, it is difficult to see how the Labour policy on immigration (as I understand from Diane Abbott's comments this week) would be compatible with the sort of relationship that they say that they want.
I don't want Brexit, naturally, but I also don't want the country governed by political parties that seem utterly incapable of understanding the most basic criteria of the EU when seeking to negotiate the most important Agreement/Treaty in our lifetimes. Anyone would think that the UK had never been a member of the organisation.
A bespoke trade deal (because every trade deal is tailored to the needs of the parties) is available, but the EU will not tear itself apart to achieve one.
Ignore foreign policy, what was exactly bad about blair’s Reign?
I know you cannot be serious, but... Ignoring the half million dead from the Iraq war, obvs
He was a two face Tory. Deregulation of banks Disgraceful social house building record. PFI Uncontrolled immigration Chilcott Selling of playing fields Introduction of student fees New Labour was “intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich”, in the famous words of Peter Mandelson, Dont mention all the other wars Cambell, Mandelson spin
...and thats just from one Guardian article.
Which bit did you find funny Orms? Was it the totally un necessary deaths of UK servicemen and others, or something else?
In the last week I have discovered a strange thing about the 2016 Referendum.
One of my friends voted Leave because he wanted to stick it to David Cameron. In that sense he has achieved his Brexit goal. Unfortunately him and his wife wanted to buy a place abroad (Spain or Portugal) next year when she retires. With the current uncertainty they aren't prepared to purchase and he now deeply regrets voting Leave.
Another friend is a lifelong socialist whose father emigrated from Cyprus. He is a virulent anti-EU leaver who sees the EU as capitalist cabal to assert German authority over Europe including punishing his beloved Cyprus and Greece. He is suddenly applying for a Cypriot passport.
Another family friend is an anti-immigration Leaver who is obsessed with Sadiq Khan and the increasing number of non-white faces in the community (which is strange because we're in rural Essex) This is the Cleethorpes paradox because the majority of non-white people in our village work in either the Indian restaurant or Chinese takeaway. The other small number work in the City of London. This guy and his wife own two properties in Spain and now have Spanish passports - "to protect our future " as he reminds us without seeing the hypocrisy his vote.
A fourth friend who previously voted UKIP is planning to retire to Germany with his German wife because life is better in Germany.
My friends are a microcosm of people like Farage, Nigel Lawson and others who have no intention of actually living with the consequences of the future that tbey have handed everyone else.
I didn’t think Spain allowed dual nationality. I thought if you took a Spanish passport based on residency you were forced to renounce your British one ? Could be wrong though.
Edit : I’m right for once. Unless your original nationality is from one of a few countries that share ancestral heritage with Spain like the South American countries you must give up your nationality in order to take a spanish passport.
Actually you are slightly wrong. Sephardic Jews who can prove that their relatives were expelled from Spain from 1492 onwards can obtain a Spanish passport and keep their old one, but only until Oct 2019.
So it wasn't "Many Brexit Tory politicians" who actively colluded with Russia during the referendum?
They may not have actively colluded in the sense of direct dialogue with Russian actors; however any of them who were part of the Leave EU gang, and/or worked closely with Dominic Cummings, will need to be scrutinised.
Which is fine, but that wasn't the original accusation, was it? Ridiculous posts, like the original one need calling out, you are quick enough - quite rightly - to ask for sources when you disagree with a post, that's all I did.
Anyone colluding with The Russians should 100% face the full force of the law, from both sides of the house, or, in Banks' case, outside the house.
For a while now I have felt that May should simply go cap in hand to Barnier and ask for an extension to Article 50, because there is absolutely no way that the country can be ready for 29 3.19. Have you noticed just how close that date is now?
That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.
Francois P 28 minutes ago No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.
Pasquino 1 hour ago A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.
Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.
Till S. 1 hour ago No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.
You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.
"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"
For a while now I have felt that May should simply go cap in hand to Barnier and ask for an extension to Article 50, because there is absolutely no way that the country can be ready for 29 3.19. Have you noticed just how close that date is now?
That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.
Francois P 28 minutes ago No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.
Pasquino 1 hour ago A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.
Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.
Till S. 1 hour ago No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.
You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.
"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"
Tough. Who cares? You had enough time.
It’s good to see it in print but it’s obvious that would be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens. I’m British and don’t want Brexit but I find it hard to disagree with the above sentiment.
He might be better laying off the least effective builders.
Not entirely sure how legal it is either. There is a point to it though. People will have to take responsibility for their vote. Was reading a bit in the guardian y’day claiming a no deal would be bad for British farmers. A lot of them voted for Brexit
Just watched Corbyn’s speech. I’ve been very critical of him but I have to say I thought it was inclusive, progressive and delivered impeccably well. I don’t think he’s done himself or Labour any harm today. Impressed.
Really
Yep. I think apart from the right wing press I think he’ll get a lot of credit tomorrow.
Tories don’t have any policies next week to shout about. They will spend their entire conference attacking Corbyn. Next few months are going to be very interesting.
I think what has been said this week will scare the shit out of middle England I have never voted Tory and I never will but I think Corbin has just won the Tories the next election.
Corbyn will win the tories general elections whilst he’s still leader. A large percentage of the country simply won’t vote for him.
That’s very possible but times they are a changing. Ten years of austerity. Brexit fiasco orchestrated with stunning incompetence by the Conservatives and a government literally tearing itself apart. Perhaps a stark choice but don’t forget that Brexit was never going to be voted for and Trump could never become President.
Corbyn clawed back a lot of ground against all predictions (including mine) at the last election so I wouldn’t write him off yet.
Thatcher wasn’t exactly Keynesian and didn’t scare off the electorate then did it?
A left wing government hasn’t been elected for over 40 years. I’m afraid the old saying is very true: those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and socialists are one of the most stubborn groups going.
I was having this discussion last night with my latest squeeze. She is a leftist & O just said that as a fonamcial advisor the economics of socialism, esp a Corbyn/McDonall one, just doesnt work. It is great to want to spread wealth, and to make sure all our public services are well funded, but it takes money.....lots of it. Everyone will have to pay more tax.....not just the rich.
First thing is to change the tax rates. Daft that someone earning £50k pays the same rate as someone earning £145k. There should be more bands.....20 / 30 / 40 / 50
Paying more tax to fund what the country genuinely needs and makes it a better place to live is not something I have a problem with in any way shape or form.
Paying more tax to fund what the country genuinely needs and makes it a better place to live is not something I have a problem with in any way shape or form.
Paying more tax to fund what the country genuinely needs and makes it a better place to live is not something I have a problem with in any way shape or form.
nor do I.......but don't dress it up as "tax the rich" or "for the many not the few".
Currently you pay the same rate of tax if you earn £150k or £1.5m.........and only 5% more than someone earning £50k.
Paying more tax to fund what the country genuinely needs and makes it a better place to live is not something I have a problem with in any way shape or form.
nor do I.......but don't dress it up as "tax the rich" or "for the many not the few".
Currently you pay the same rate of tax if you earn £150k or £1.5m.........and only 5% more than someone earning £50k.
Surely changing that ridiculous situation would be "for the many not the few".
For a while now I have felt that May should simply go cap in hand to Barnier and ask for an extension to Article 50, because there is absolutely no way that the country can be ready for 29 3.19. Have you noticed just how close that date is now?
That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.
Francois P 28 minutes ago No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.
Pasquino 1 hour ago A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.
Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.
Till S. 1 hour ago No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.
You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.
"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"
Tough. Who cares? You had enough time.
It’s good to see it in print but it’s obvious that would be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens. I’m British and don’t want Brexit but I find it hard to disagree with the above sentiment.
If that’s the reaction of a large proportion of EU citizens then it’s good to know that ignorance of how damaging Brexit will be across the U.K. & EU isn’t limited to our own deluded Brexiteers.
My perception of the Europeans that I come into contact with is most think this is as silly as most Charlton Life members on this thread appear to and want a sensible outcome rather than the “screw them” attitude reflected in the comments posted by Prague.
Comments
A left wing government hasn’t been elected for over 40 years. I’m afraid the old saying is very true: those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and socialists are one of the most stubborn groups going.
Honestly, party bias aside it was a speech given by a man trying to make the country a socialist state but knowing it is never going to happen.
I really want a credible alternative but while labour have this goon in charge, it ain’t ever gonna happen.
May has managed to deliberately avoid this concept as she cobbled together her Chequers plan. If we are to leave, then we have two choices: a Norway model that keep the 4 freedoms or a hard Brexit that will decimate the UK economy. Which option do we think Labour is closer to? Here's a clue: Labour wish that the UK is in "a Customs Union" and have access to the single market, whilst Sir Keir Starmer openly talks to a Norway option.
Labour have avoided the immigration debate because, quite frankly, it's toxic. Only now, two years after the referendum has the electorate's concern about immigration reduced to normal levels after being stoked up by Farage, Johnson, The Mail and Express. Polls show that the electorate is balanced between immigration controls and access to the single market but when faced with all or nothing which way would Labour go? Perhaps we will stay in the EEA and the Alt-right will attempt to rise again with their dog whistle politics? But will people be fooled again?
Most but not all of the electorate know that the Norway option is obviously worse than what we have at present, while the second is a catastrophe. So perhaps staying in the EU is the best option? Or perhaps we leave the EU but stay in the EEA?
For what it's worth Corbyn, McDonnell and Starmer along with the 300 delegates in the composite meeting have now paved the way to play a winning hand over the next few months. For they can now claim that they can both cut a Brexit deal with M.Barnier AND that they may well give the final choice to the people.
There appears to be no deal that exists which is acceptable to M.Barnier, May, the DUP and the ERG and that means that May is headed for "no deal". This in turn puts the Tory remainers in the frame - they are the people who can stop this train wreck. Those on the EU side have offered to extend the October deadline to November giving just two months from today - do we really think May is going to deliver something which is compliant with EU priorities?
Was it the totally un necessary deaths of UK servicemen and others, or something else?
Still, makes a change from your puerile Flags.
That's pretty much what Philip Stephens concludes in today's FT. Most of you of course are not subscribers. It's a long article to cut and paste too. But instead I cut and paste some of the comments, because being the FT, several come from across the Channel. You don't hear these voices in the British media, so here are some now.
Francois P 28 minutes ago
No thanks, Mr Stephens. We citizens of the EU27 aren’t willing to endure the whining of the British any longer. The sooner this farce comes to a close, the better.
Pasquino 1 hour ago
A timeout would be in the UK's interests, but not those of the EU-27. Better to cut off the diseased limb.
Mostly Harmless 1 hour ago
On the continent we just want this to be over asap. Honestly, there is not much goodwill left after 4 decades of moaning and insults and 3 years of a particular bipolar disorder of megalomania and hysteria. Brexit was hybris. The sooner it is exposed as such, the better for all involved.
Till S. 1 hour ago
No, no, no. Get on and be done with it. No more of this madness. Actions like calling an unnecessary referendum or cluelessly triggering a leave process should have, no must have consequences.
You have been taking Europe for fools long enough. Out you go. You need to feel the (hard) consequences now and - hopefully, even though I wouldn't hold my breath - learn your lesson.
"It should be evident by now that Britain is simply not ready for Brexit"
Tough. Who cares? You had enough time.
I do like his son though. He doesn't like Corbyn much.
It’s good to see it in print but it’s obvious that would be the reaction from a large proportion of EU citizens. I’m British and don’t want Brexit but I find it hard to disagree with the above sentiment.
They’re reaping what they sow.
First thing is to change the tax rates. Daft that someone earning £50k pays the same rate as someone earning £145k. There should be more bands.....20 / 30 / 40 / 50
Currently you pay the same rate of tax if you earn £150k or £1.5m.........and only 5% more than someone earning £50k.
My perception of the Europeans that I come into contact with is most think this is as silly as most Charlton Life members on this thread appear to and want a sensible outcome rather than the “screw them” attitude reflected in the comments posted by Prague.