That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Now your struggling to pin me down...i am closer to you than you think..i do have the ability if i want to find you.
That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Now your struggling to pin me down...i am closer to you than you think..i do have the ability if i want to find you.
That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Now your struggling to pin me down...i am closer to you than you think..i do have the ability if i want to find you.
That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Now your struggling to pin me down...i am closer to you than you think..i do have the ability if i want to find you.
That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Now your struggling to pin me down...i am closer to you than you think..i do have the ability if i want to find you.
That Guardian is some newspaper....seems to get scoops you cant read anywhere else...
You're right, Chippy, it is a good newspaper. It covers a lot of ground, in a lot of depth, often finding, through the use of diligent, hard-working investigative journalists, many important issues.
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Now your struggling to pin me down...i am closer to you than you think..i do have the ability if i want to find you.
Fuck me, Chippy is Liam Neeson!
If only.....
You sure? He's Irish you know.
Hello me old china how are you
How am I? I am a brexit vote loser that's how I am. However I take comfort that brexit means regaining control of the UK borders, so brexit won't actually happen. So, as Nick Berry would say, 'Every Loser Wins'.
I think that's the aim. If you close down the discussion then you don't have to acknowledge the growing reality that is the mess of Brexit.
Which would be a shame as for the most part the discussions been fairly cordial without reverting to personal abuse or bookings for Makro's car park. Even when someone does post the most ridiculous nonsense most of the time...
I think that's the aim. If you close down the discussion then you don't have to acknowledge the growing reality that is the mess of Brexit.
Which would be a shame as for the most part the discussions been fairly cordial without reverting to personal abuse or bookings for Makro's car park. Even when someone does post the most ridiculous nonsense most of the time...
I'm not sure there's much actual discussion going on though.
Just checking in on this for the first time since y’day evening. Chippy, the stuff about finding people and begging for a fanny as you so eloquently put it, is up there with some of the biggest waffle I think I’ve read on in my 8 years of being on the site and Chizz if you continue to bait him that’s not right either
You two will never see any common ground on this thread and any interaction is likely to end in the nonsense above, so I would simply ignore one another on here.
As before, we’re trying to keep this open for important developments over the next few months, be good if we could all rise above the nonsense
I think that's the aim. If you close down the discussion then you don't have to acknowledge the growing reality that is the mess of Brexit.
Which would be a shame as for the most part the discussions been fairly cordial without reverting to personal abuse or bookings for Makro's car park. Even when someone does post the most ridiculous nonsense most of the time...
I'm not sure there's much actual discussion going on though.
Right now, no. However if people would take a look at that Bloomberg article, it lays bare the true tragedy of Brexit ( the Guardian and others are carrying shorter articles which summarize the key findings) . Basicallynthere was vague talk of how Brexit- pushing hedge fund types made a killing on it, but nobody up to now has explained how. Now the process is laid bare for all to see. Once again ordinary people are seeing their incomes stagnate, while prices rise, yet some already rich ( and not particularly civic minded) individuals trouser a load a sa direct result of the referendum. And theirin lies the tragedy. From their various remarks, I reckon that if you put Chippy and Chizz in one to one research interviews about the political policies other than Brexit which would Make Britain Great again, their choices would match up far more than we might all imagine from this thread. Brexit allowed a bunch of ultra right wing greedy bastards ( Rees-Mogg and Redwood are firmly in that camp) to lead the Chippy and Blackpool type voters. Those bastards don't give a monkeys about such voters future. They've already trousered their wedge.
Just checking in on this for the first time since y’day evening. Chippy, the stuff about finding people and begging for a fanny as you so eloquently put it, is up there with some of the biggest waffle I think I’ve read on in my 8 years of being on the site and Chizz if you continue to bait him that’s not right either
You two will never see any common ground on this thread and any interaction is likely to end in the nonsense above, so I would simply ignore one another on here.
As before, we’re trying to keep this open for important developments over the next few months, be good if we could all rise above the nonsense
Good advice, which I will follow. Although I'll reserve the right to call out racism when it rears its ugly head.
Just checking in on this for the first time since y’day evening. Chippy, the stuff about finding people and begging for a fanny as you so eloquently put it, is up there with some of the biggest waffle I think I’ve read on in my 8 years of being on the site and Chizz if you continue to bait him that’s not right either
You two will never see any common ground on this thread and any interaction is likely to end in the nonsense above, so I would simply ignore one another on here.
As before, we’re trying to keep this open for important developments over the next few months, be good if we could all rise above the nonsense
Bloody Jonniecomelatelys rocking up throwing their weight about, like they own the place...
Just checking in on this for the first time since y’day evening. Chippy, the stuff about finding people and begging for a fanny as you so eloquently put it, is up there with some of the biggest waffle I think I’ve read on in my 8 years of being on the site and Chizz if you continue to bait him that’s not right either
You two will never see any common ground on this thread and any interaction is likely to end in the nonsense above, so I would simply ignore one another on here.
As before, we’re trying to keep this open for important developments over the next few months, be good if we could all rise above the nonsense
I got told to wind my neck in when I was being rude to Brexiters, you don't seem to apply the same rules to quitters - as well as Chippy's childish wind ups, Howells has sent at least three of us mildly abusive personal messages and that seems to have gone unchallenged.
I think the CL VAR is about as accurate as FIFA's...
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
But do you never ever stop to look at the politicians who best express your Brexit and just wonder how you came to be in the same camp as them? Because you are putting them in power after you've got your Brexit, so if I were you, I would stop and ask yourself what plans they have for you, and what you are going to do if you don't like the answer.
I think that's the aim. If you close down the discussion then you don't have to acknowledge the growing reality that is the mess of Brexit.
Which would be a shame as for the most part the discussions been fairly cordial without reverting to personal abuse or bookings for Makro's car park. Even when someone does post the most ridiculous nonsense most of the time...
I'm not sure there's much actual discussion going on though.
True enough maybe but I think thats more a reflection of the paucity of 'good news' Leave events as a balance to the daily bad ones as we get nearer to the date.
Brexit is on the ropes getting it's face smashed in every round but the ref won't stop it as they're worried about it all going off in the crowd and the cormer won't throw in the towel as they're thinking about their own bank balance and getting a move to a better gym.
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
But do you never ever stop to look at the politicians who best express your Brexit and just wonder how you came to be in the same camp as them? Because you are putting them in power after you've got your Brexit, so if I were you, I would stop and ask yourself what plans they have for you, and what you are going to do if you don't like the answer.
I think you are misreading politics in the UK if you think Brexiteer politicians are close to getting power.
Since the referendum British politics has been run by remainers in Government and in Parliament.
Their aim, transparent from the start, has been to end up with a Brexit in name only, which they are very close to achieving. The sad reality is that Brexit has not changed politics in this country. We still have two main parties with no good vision or programme for Britain, and in the main desperate to hold on to their Brussels connections so they never have to come up with a political programme we can buy into, but continue to rely on Brussels rule.
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
But do you never ever stop to look at the politicians who best express your Brexit and just wonder how you came to be in the same camp as them? Because you are putting them in power after you've got your Brexit, so if I were you, I would stop and ask yourself what plans they have for you, and what you are going to do if you don't like the answer.
I think you are misreading politics in the UK if you think Brexiteer politicians are close to getting power.
Since the referendum British politics has been run by remainers in Government and in Parliament.
Their aim, transparent from the start, has been to end up with a Brexit in name only, which they are very close to achieving. The sad reality is that Brexit has not changed politics in this country. We still have two main parties with no good vision or programme for Britain, and in the main desperate to hold on to their Brussels connections so they never have to come up with a political programme we can buy into, but continue to rely on Brussels rule.
How can people who don't know Boris Johnson is foreign secretary be allowed to vote on anything?
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
What were they? And do you still stand by them?
I'm not going over and over again with you. And yes I would still vote the same way.
That's fair enough. Look at it from another perspective though. What would have to change about the direction we are travelling for you to reconsider your existing position?
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
What were they? And do you still stand by them?
I'm not going over and over again with you. And yes I would still vote the same way.
That's fair enough. Look at it from another perspective though. What would have to change about the direction we are travelling for you to reconsider your existing position?
Don't talk tosh, @southbank. One of Johnson Gove or the Cartoon Aristocrat will be chosen as next Tory leader, and Labour under Corbyn will fail to defeat them because people like me cannot vote for them.
@blackpool72 I thought of a more precise question for you. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are or were in the fire service. That's a profession I admire, and I would vote for higher salaries for all of them. However John Redwood, when he was a Tory minister was not of that view at all. On the contrary he wanted to take away your right to strike. I am sure he still does, but he spends more time now advising clients at his investment bank to pull out of the U.K. How do you feel, lining up behind him?
Stop discussing the quality of discussion. We know who is on which side anyway. The immutable fact is that brexit won, what remains are the practicalities such as the Irish border. Brexit now is an exercise in measuring how moronic, and to a degree how selfish brexit voters are. I hesitate to say how racist or at least now xenophobic brexit voters are, but I admit that deep down I believe they are xenophobic and perhaps racists in denial, mainly because no brexit voters here or elsewhere can structure a good news story out of brexit. The approach is 100% about antipathy to anti brexiteers because without digging out remainers and associated forces brexiteers have nothing to say. I link the constant antipathy, here to antipathy towards foreigners. In my mind there are a few things that might shift my thinking. One is to be persuaded that leaving is better than staying. Another is for brexiters to come up with an Irish solution. And another tough one is for brexiters to face the issues that continually arise as problems like the European Arrest Warrant. I don't anticipate any of that happening, not because I believe myself to be close minded, but because I believe brexiters to be trapped in their nightmare with no escape beyond lashing out. Like Boris saying fuck business, or Ireland is the tail wagging the dog.
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
But do you never ever stop to look at the politicians who best express your Brexit and just wonder how you came to be in the same camp as them? Because you are putting them in power after you've got your Brexit, so if I were you, I would stop and ask yourself what plans they have for you, and what you are going to do if you don't like the answer.
I think you are misreading politics in the UK if you think Brexiteer politicians are close to getting power.
Since the referendum British politics has been run by remainers in Government and in Parliament.
Their aim, transparent from the start, has been to end up with a Brexit in name only, which they are very close to achieving. The sad reality is that Brexit has not changed politics in this country. We still have two main parties with no good vision or programme for Britain, and in the main desperate to hold on to their Brussels connections so they never have to come up with a political programme we can buy into, but continue to rely on Brussels rule.
If that was the case, then why has the government pushed for a hard brexit at every turn. Why have they continually ruled out reverting to EEA and every other halfway house. If you're conspiracy theory was true then they could have so easily use all the leaver promises of a Norway option prior to the referendum to rubber stamp EEA membership 2 years ago.
They didn't do that, so your paranoid delusions are immediately blown out of the water.
We have a government pursuing a hard/no-deal brexit against all sane advice, we have leavers terrified of a second referendum as they know they'll lose their "will of the people" mantra if/when the numbers switch. I
When leave won 52-48 it was the will of the people to leave. If we had a second referendum and it was 55-45 to remain then you would claim that you brexit was being stolen, that it was the conspiracy to deny the people, but how can that be the case if it's the people who decide?
That's why you view point doesn't stack up, you only want to claim it's the will of the people when they agree with you. If they don't then it's because it's a remainer conspiracy. You are everything you've ever accused remainers of, and worse as you're a hypocrite too.
Prague mate. My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood. Cheers.
But do you never ever stop to look at the politicians who best express your Brexit and just wonder how you came to be in the same camp as them? Because you are putting them in power after you've got your Brexit, so if I were you, I would stop and ask yourself what plans they have for you, and what you are going to do if you don't like the answer.
I think you are misreading politics in the UK if you think Brexiteer politicians are close to getting power.
Since the referendum British politics has been run by remainers in Government and in Parliament.
Their aim, transparent from the start, has been to end up with a Brexit in name only, which they are very close to achieving. The sad reality is that Brexit has not changed politics in this country. We still have two main parties with no good vision or programme for Britain, and in the main desperate to hold on to their Brussels connections so they never have to come up with a political programme we can buy into, but continue to rely on Brussels rule.
I disagree that brexit is being run by remainers, morons possibly, or more likely by people who know unicorns don't exist in tandem with people who think they do.
I think that's the aim. If you close down the discussion then you don't have to acknowledge the growing reality that is the mess of Brexit.
Which would be a shame as for the most part the discussions been fairly cordial without reverting to personal abuse or bookings for Makro's car park. Even when someone does post the most ridiculous nonsense most of the time...
I'm not sure there's much actual discussion going on though.
Right now, no. However if people would take a look at that Bloomberg article, it lays bare the true tragedy of Brexit ( the Guardian and others are carrying shorter articles which summarize the key findings) . Basicallynthere was vague talk of how Brexit- pushing hedge fund types made a killing on it, but nobody up to now has explained how. Now the process is laid bare for all to see. Once again ordinary people are seeing their incomes stagnate, while prices rise, yet some already rich ( and not particularly civic minded) individuals trouser a load a sa direct result of the referendum. And theirin lies the tragedy. From their various remarks, I reckon that if you put Chippy and Chizz in one to one research interviews about the political policies other than Brexit which would Make Britain Great again, their choices would match up far more than we might all imagine from this thread. Brexit allowed a bunch of ultra right wing greedy bastards ( Rees-Mogg and Redwood are firmly in that camp) to lead the Chippy and Blackpool type voters. Those bastards don't give a monkeys about such voters future. They've already trousered their wedge.
But this is only a "tragedy" in your eyes, because you (like me) are against Brexit. This thread has been live for nine months, and one before it much longer than that with pretty much the same group of participants - have any of you materially changed your positions?
It seems that it is becoming increasingly fractious and divisive as the protagonists views are increasingly entrenched it seems. As this is, after all, a Charlton Athletic forum and our club really feels as though it's on the precipice right now I would argue that it's not a good idea for us to divide our fan base with this sort of stuff, especially as both sides are debating with minds that can't be changed.
Comments
However, this is one story that isn't exclusive to the Guardian. You can also read this one on the Sky News website.
And on RTE.ie and Bloomberg and Yahoo News and the FT.
As well as the BBC, Daily Express, Independent, Personal Today, Reuters, Sputnik International, AutoExpress, Swindon Advertiser, Oxford Mail. And many other places. If you look hard enough.
Fuck me, Chippy is Liam Neeson!
I am a brexit vote loser that's how I am.
However I take comfort that brexit means regaining control of the UK borders, so brexit won't actually happen.
So, as Nick Berry would say, 'Every Loser Wins'.
Which would be a shame as for the most part the discussions been fairly cordial without reverting to personal abuse or bookings for Makro's car park. Even when someone does post the most ridiculous nonsense most of the time...
But, hey...as Boris says, "Fuck Business!".
You two will never see any common ground on this thread and any interaction is likely to end in the nonsense above, so I would simply ignore one another on here.
As before, we’re trying to keep this open for important developments over the next few months, be good if we could all rise above the nonsense
My reasons for voting Brexit had nothing to do with Rees Mogg or Redwood.
Cheers.
And yes I would still vote the same way.
I think the CL VAR is about as accurate as FIFA's...
Brexit is on the ropes getting it's face smashed in every round but the ref won't stop it as they're worried about it all going off in the crowd and the cormer won't throw in the towel as they're thinking about their own bank balance and getting a move to a better gym.
Other analogys are available on request...
Since the referendum British politics has been run by remainers in Government and in Parliament.
Their aim, transparent from the start, has been to end up with a Brexit in name only, which they are very close to achieving. The sad reality is that Brexit has not changed politics in this country. We still have two main parties with no good vision or programme for Britain, and in the main desperate to hold on to their Brussels connections so they never have to come up with a political programme we can buy into, but continue to rely on Brussels rule.
@blackpool72 I thought of a more precise question for you. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you are or were in the fire service. That's a profession I admire, and I would vote for higher salaries for all of them. However John Redwood, when he was a Tory minister was not of that view at all. On the contrary he wanted to take away your right to strike. I am sure he still does, but he spends more time now advising clients at his investment bank to pull out of the U.K. How do you feel, lining up behind him?
We know who is on which side anyway.
The immutable fact is that brexit won, what remains are the practicalities such as the Irish border.
Brexit now is an exercise in measuring how moronic, and to a degree how selfish brexit voters are.
I hesitate to say how racist or at least now xenophobic brexit voters are, but I admit that deep down I believe they are xenophobic and perhaps racists in denial, mainly because no brexit voters here or elsewhere can structure a good news story out of brexit. The approach is 100% about antipathy to anti brexiteers because without digging out remainers and associated forces brexiteers have nothing to say.
I link the constant antipathy, here to antipathy towards foreigners.
In my mind there are a few things that might shift my thinking.
One is to be persuaded that leaving is better than staying.
Another is for brexiters to come up with an Irish solution.
And another tough one is for brexiters to face the issues that continually arise as problems like the European Arrest Warrant.
I don't anticipate any of that happening, not because I believe myself to be close minded, but because I believe brexiters to be trapped in their nightmare with no escape beyond lashing out.
Like Boris saying fuck business, or Ireland is the tail wagging the dog.
They didn't do that, so your paranoid delusions are immediately blown out of the water.
We have a government pursuing a hard/no-deal brexit against all sane advice, we have leavers terrified of a second referendum as they know they'll lose their "will of the people" mantra if/when the numbers switch. I
When leave won 52-48 it was the will of the people to leave. If we had a second referendum and it was 55-45 to remain then you would claim that you brexit was being stolen, that it was the conspiracy to deny the people, but how can that be the case if it's the people who decide?
That's why you view point doesn't stack up, you only want to claim it's the will of the people when they agree with you. If they don't then it's because it's a remainer conspiracy. You are everything you've ever accused remainers of, and worse as you're a hypocrite too.
It seems that it is becoming increasingly fractious and divisive as the protagonists views are increasingly entrenched it seems. As this is, after all, a Charlton Athletic forum and our club really feels as though it's on the precipice right now I would argue that it's not a good idea for us to divide our fan base with this sort of stuff, especially as both sides are debating with minds that can't be changed.