Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
Would he not have said that you were a sex-obsessed loon?
Not that I know anything about Freud, well, I have a basic awareness of the late Clement...
While, behind the paywall, Stephen Collins makes a case with which I am not entirely in accord.
Stephen Collins: Prospect of hard Brexit receding
Squaring Border circle remains one of the most intractable elements of negotiations
The good news for Ireland from this week’s drama in the House of Commons is that thanks to Theresa May’s deal with the sensible wing of the Conservative Party the prospect of a no-deal Brexit now seems remote at best. Given the many twists and turns in the Brexit process to date, nothing can be totally ruled out but it would appear that the United Kingdom is heading in the direction of a soft Brexit.
However, even if the doomsday scenario looks to be off the table there is still huge uncertainty about the precise nature of the deal that will ultimately emerge and the Irish Government will have some difficult calls to make in the months ahead.
It is generally accepted that agreement on the Irish backstop, which was due to be finalised at the EU summit in Brussels next week, will have to be postponed because the British have still not come up with an acceptable formula to deal with a frictionless border.
“This is all going to go down to the wire in October and the Irish issue will inevitably be a pawn in the end game as the final shape of future relationship between the EU and the UK is sorted out,” said one senior Brussels figure.
He added that Ireland did not have a lot to fear from this scenario as support for this country is solid across the EU while there is little sympathy for the British position. Still, if everything is up for grabs in October the Irish side will have difficult decisions to make under pressure.
Former taoiseach Enda Kenny warned this week that the European Council meeting in October would not be a negotiating meeting. “If negotiations have not been concluded before that meeting, then the EU Council will meet to discuss among themselves without Britain. This is really crucial,” Kenny said on Monday when being presented with the European of the Year award in Dublin.
In his speech, Kenny scotched any notion that he favoured a softer approach to the negotiations than his successor Leo Varadkar. He pointed out that six months on from the Irish backstop agreement last December, very little progress had been made to flesh it out.
Spectre of Labour “The EU continues to negotiate from a unified position, British business is afraid to speak out because of the spectre of a Labour government,” he added.
While he is right to point out that October is the deadline for the UK to agree a final legal text of the withdrawal agreement, so that it can be ratified by the European Council and Parliament as well as the House of Commons, deadlines can always be deferred if necessary.
Boris Johnson’s derogatory comment about the tail wagging the dog reflects his real view of this country
The crucial thing about May’s agreement with Tory moderates this week is that a hard Brexit no longer appears to be a live option. This is due to the persistence and clever parliamentary tactics of a relatively small group of courageous MPs who have been so vilified by a section of the British media that their lives have been threatened.
Chief among them is former attorney general Dominic Grieve, who tabled this week’s Commons motion to strengthen parliament’s role in the Brexit negotiations. After receiving assurances from May, he voted with the government but was adamant that the concerns of his group would be addressed. “I expect the government to honour its commitments... If it were to turn out there was a problem, we will deal with it,” he remarked when some of Tory Brexiteers insisted that May had not modified her position.
Grieve is a long-time member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. He has a detailed knowledge of this country and the problems that will be created if Brexit results in the restoration of a hard border.
Time-limited backstop How the Border circle can be squared remains one of the most intractable elements of the negotiations in the months ahead. The British plan published last week for a time-limited backstop for the entire UK represents some movement in the right direction but there is a long way to go.
Varadkar gave it a tentative welcome but EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier took a decidedly more negative view expressing serious doubts about how a backstop arrangement to keep Northern Ireland in regulatory alignment with the EU could be applied to the whole of the UK. He remarked that what was feasible for a territory the size of the North might not be feasible for the UK as a whole.
The fact the Border is such an important issue for the entire EU is a tribute to the approach taken by the Government and its officials and has undoubtedly helped to push the British in the direction of a soft rather than a hard Brexit. That has infuriated Brexiteers such as Boris Johnson. His derogatory comment about the tail wagging the dog reflects his real view of this country.
This week’s Commons manoeuvring has put Johnson and his cronies on the back foot. They will undoubtedly make further efforts to drag things back their way but for the moment at least their desire for a no-deal Brexit has been thwarted.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
I take it you didn't actually read what I wrote. For a poster who reduced their reasoning to three words, 'you're a loon', perhaps anything more complex is a bit of a stretch.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
What do you do when you win a sissy?
Nice one..whining I meant of course...tablet changed it. Apologise for late response Bourne. ..currently in Menorca getting the last of my maroon coloured thingy. This will also be nailed on completion.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
What do you do when you win a sissy?
Nice one..whining I meant of course...tablet changed it. Apologise for late response Bourne. ..currently in Menorca getting the last of my maroon coloured thingy. This will also be nailed on completion.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
*their
I know be careful..said to the Mrs wonder what muppet would pick me up for that...you were in my top three.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
Have you considered recruiting from within the EU?
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
Have you considered recruiting from within the EU?
"There's zero evidence that independent trade deals will provide any economic benefit to the UK that's material. It's a myth..."
When we have the representative of our most important manufacturers warning that Brexit could result in the "extinction" of certain areas of UK trade shouldn't we at least pause to consider what they have to say properly? Or have we really arrived at a point in the process where political dogma trumps any practicalities and our economic well being?
If he is that certain governor. Ask him has he put his life savings on that happening....bet he hasn't.
Is that the limit of Leavers response to the warning from our manufacturing sector that we are staring at massive job losses unless things change direction pretty quickly?
I'm sure the bloke himself will be just fine personally. He's extremely wealthy himself and, like yourself, has an Irish passport, but probably hasn't nailed his up somewhere to wind up a colleague who was unable to source an EU passport post-Brexit.
So I don't think he's really looking after own interests by making these repeated warnings tbh. More so the interests of the 100,000's of business his organisation represents.
Predictably the press have gone straight to JRM for a top up of the Project Fear rhetoric as a result though so we've no need to worry, it's all going to be great. Unless the CBI are right and Moggys wrong of course.
Well this EXPERT CBI man, Chippy Building Industry is looking for manufacturing and design engineers plus other trades as we can't keep them due to the amount of MANUFACTURING jobs out there. Salaries in excess of 50k particularly if there chartered. Tell the other CBI expert to get his arse down to Hampshire and see what's going on. One down side is they will have to report to me...And as you know I don't like winning sissies.
Have you considered recruiting from within the EU?
Or relocating to the Republic of Ireland?
Or hiring a bunch of people who have made up their qualifications?
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
Does your divorce mean no more ongoing payments of any sort? No kids to look after? Maybe not, but that's not the case for everyone.
I can't think of a single reason why a soft brexit with customs union will have any advantage over being a full member. We lose our place at the table, and we had a very powerful voice there.
I also think a soft brexit is better than a hard brexit. But I would, I voted remain and think the EU is on the whole a good thing to be part of. But the public disagreed, and full membership is off the table. Got to pick the best of the remaining options.
I think there is a good point made above - the Tory rebels have shown courage and the treatment of them from the press is a scandal. The death of Jo Cox should be a warning how these bodies need to use the power of influence they have very carefully. Calling them traitors and the general language and tones warrants serious action against these publications whatever side of the debate you are on!
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
Does your divorce mean no more ongoing payments of any sort? No kids to look after? Maybe not, but that's not the case for everyone.
I can't think of a single reason why a soft brexit with customs union will have any advantage over being a full member. We lose our place at the table, and we had a very powerful voice there.
I also think a soft brexit is better than a hard brexit. But I would, I voted remain and think the EU is on the whole a good thing to be part of. But the public disagreed, and full membership is off the table. Got to pick the best of the remaining options.
Totally agree.....a soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU.....reason why we need a no deal at thst stage. Wont happen of course because T May is weak & has no control. This AC Greyling chap is a complete nutter imo.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
Does your divorce mean no more ongoing payments of any sort? No kids to look after? Maybe not, but that's not the case for everyone.
I can't think of a single reason why a soft brexit with customs union will have any advantage over being a full member. We lose our place at the table, and we had a very powerful voice there.
I also think a soft brexit is better than a hard brexit. But I would, I voted remain and think the EU is on the whole a good thing to be part of. But the public disagreed, and full membership is off the table. Got to pick the best of the remaining options.
Totally agree.....a soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU.....reason why we need a no deal at thst stage. Wont happen of course because T May is weak & has no control. This AC Greyling chap is a complete nutter imo.
"A soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU".
I wonder how many people voted Leave with the hope that we would have a soft brexit. Perhaps, persuaded by people like Nigel Farage ("what's wrong with the Norway option?") or Daniel Hanan ("Nobody, and I repeat nobody, is threatening our place in the single market").
It seems likely that, at the referendum, some people voted with the intention of instigating a hard brexit (split between those who wanted to negotiate their way out of everything and those who wanted to leave with no deal) and many, many more voted with the intention of not harming the economy as much as a hard brexit would (split between those wanting a soft brexit and those wanting to remain).
Maybe we should follow the will of the people and end any speculation that we should head towards a hard brexit. And maybe there should be a referendum between soft brexit and remain. Or would that be a bit too democatic for some?
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
Does your divorce mean no more ongoing payments of any sort? No kids to look after? Maybe not, but that's not the case for everyone.
I can't think of a single reason why a soft brexit with customs union will have any advantage over being a full member. We lose our place at the table, and we had a very powerful voice there.
I also think a soft brexit is better than a hard brexit. But I would, I voted remain and think the EU is on the whole a good thing to be part of. But the public disagreed, and full membership is off the table. Got to pick the best of the remaining options.
Totally agree.....a soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU.....reason why we need a no deal at thst stage. Wont happen of course because T May is weak & has no control. This AC Greyling chap is a complete nutter imo.
"A soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU".
I wonder how many people voted Leave with the hope that we would have a soft brexit. Perhaps, persuaded by people like Nigel Farage ("what's wrong with the Norway option?") or Daniel Hanan ("Nobody, and I repeat nobody, is threatening our place in the single market").
It seems likely that, at the referendum, some people voted with the intention of instigating a hard brexit (split between those who wanted to negotiate their way out of everything and those who wanted to leave with no deal) and many, many more voted with the intention of not harming the economy as much as a hard brexit would (split between those wanting a soft brexit and those wanting to remain).
Maybe we should follow the will of the people and end any speculation that we should head towards a hard brexit. And maybe there should be a referendum between soft brexit and remain. Or would that be a bit too democatic for some?
I have asked this a few times and had no respinse, so...what is a soft brexut and in what way does it differ from being in the EU and under the control of the ECJ, accepting free movement of labour and paying to keep the EU going? Golfie is right that Remain wins if no deal is taken off the table. The EU will feel no need to make any kind of deal if they know we will not walk away-it is a simple fact of how negotiations work.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
Thank you for this link. It will take a bit of re-read but my first impression is that it suggests that a technological solution (for goods) is the solution but hope is for a trade deal to avoid that . As far as I understand it the technology doesn't exist, and my thoughts are that the practicalities won't work, if there is some magic solution then fine. The technological solution will apply to trade in goods and stratified various types of business and requires methods of registration. Presumably there would a!so need to be forces to monitor this and react to transgressions. I sort of joked months ago that the technological solution would need every person to be microchipped in the ear lobe to deal with the movement of people across the border in the absence of documentary checks. The interesting paper you have linked avoids talking about the movement of people, and about properties that span the border as well as multiple crossings per day back and forth. At least this paper exists, but again on first reading it back, mentions the caveats. It is incomplete because it is not fully comprehensive regarding all the issues, and tellingly it has suggestions that allude to the ROI government being obliged to follow the UK lead in all this, on something they might have problems with, and certainly something Ireland wasn't involved in voting for. My early conclusion is that the paper you linked does not reveal a workable solution to th at land border with 220 crossing points, and properties spanning the border or about the movement of individual people. I would welcome a push back at my interpretation where it can be shown that the problems I have highlighted can be overcome.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
Does your divorce mean no more ongoing payments of any sort? No kids to look after? Maybe not, but that's not the case for everyone.
I can't think of a single reason why a soft brexit with customs union will have any advantage over being a full member. We lose our place at the table, and we had a very powerful voice there.
I also think a soft brexit is better than a hard brexit. But I would, I voted remain and think the EU is on the whole a good thing to be part of. But the public disagreed, and full membership is off the table. Got to pick the best of the remaining options.
Totally agree.....a soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU.....reason why we need a no deal at thst stage. Wont happen of course because T May is weak & has no control. This AC Greyling chap is a complete nutter imo.
"A soft brexit will not have any advantage to staying in the EU".
I wonder how many people voted Leave with the hope that we would have a soft brexit. Perhaps, persuaded by people like Nigel Farage ("what's wrong with the Norway option?") or Daniel Hanan ("Nobody, and I repeat nobody, is threatening our place in the single market").
It seems likely that, at the referendum, some people voted with the intention of instigating a hard brexit (split between those who wanted to negotiate their way out of everything and those who wanted to leave with no deal) and many, many more voted with the intention of not harming the economy as much as a hard brexit would (split between those wanting a soft brexit and those wanting to remain).
Maybe we should follow the will of the people and end any speculation that we should head towards a hard brexit. And maybe there should be a referendum between soft brexit and remain. Or would that be a bit too democatic for some?
I have asked this a few times and had no respinse, so...what is a soft brexut and in what way does it differ from being in the EU and under the control of the ECJ, accepting free movement of labour and paying to keep the EU going? Golfie is right that Remain wins if no deal is taken off the table. The EU will feel no need to make any kind of deal if they know we will not walk away-it is a simple fact of how negotiations work.
On your first point about language I agree. There is either brexit or no brexit, a deal or no deal, there is also either a border or no border. The soft/hard stuff is irritating and obfuscating.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
You're right, I don't have a clue about solving the Irish border that will satisfy N Ireland, ROI, the EU, the IRA......
but I have a clue how to solve it from a UK prospective (ie, to fulfill the referendun & leave the EU & have control of our borders)....make sure there is a hard border between the 2. How do other countries such as Mecica, Canada, Argentina etc etc. I've never been to those countries so I truely don't know.
Just because that goes against the GFA is no relevance. The GFA will have to be re-visited & re-done.....just like all the other legislation that we are "bringing back under our control". If you feel that there is no answer then I would ask why was the Referendum ever conducted in the first place ?? Might as well have asked the country if we wanted to join the USA in that case.
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
You're right, I don't have a clue about solving the Irish border that will satisfy N Ireland, ROI, the EU, the IRA......
but I have a clue how to solve it from a UK prospective (ie, to fulfill the referendun & leave the EU & have control of our borders)....make sure there is a hard border between the 2. How do other countries such as Mecica, Canada, Argentina etc etc. I've never been to those countries so I truely don't know.
Just because that goes against the GFA is no relevance. The GFA will have to be re-visited & re-done.....just like all the other legislation that we are "bringing back under our control". If you feel that there is no answer then I would ask why was the Referendum ever conducted in the first place ?? Might as well have asked the country if we wanted to join the USA in that case.
There is no such word as can't.
I don't believe the G FA suggestion you have mentioned can be undone just like that.
I will post this again (5th time) for those quitters going on about Brexit meaning leaving the single market.
Perhaps it should be posted every day in the morning, a bit like "assembly" at school, so the same lie doesn't keep getting repeated (though it will be after half an hour anyway).
I will post this again (5th time) for those quitters going on about Brexit meaning leaving the single market.
Perhaps it should be posted every day in the morning, a bit like "assembly" at school, so the same lie doesn't keep getting repeated (though it will be after half an hour anyway).
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
Read 5 paragraphs and come across this already "This is sustainable as long as the UK does not require visas for EU27 visitors, and that the Republic of Ireland does not join the Schengen area."
So that's two big assumptions and two potential problems dismissed with a wave of the pen straight away.
"Let's ignore the bits I have no answer to and get on with the bits I do".
Brexiters knew completely and fully what they were voting for, and they won. Everything that has happened since their thoroughly thought through victory was and has been anticipated. Nobody has taken that victory away. There is nobody to praise or blame for anything but themselves. Each and every single brexit voter. Their plan is a secret known only to themselves but that is a fruit of their victory. They don't have to tell anybody what the good or bad bits are when asked. Any brexit voter who does not wholly and ful!y own their victory and everything that flows from that seems to me to be a coward. The country belongs to the winners, losers like me will complain forever until brexiters find a way to shut us down. For me I complain because the country I once shared with others has been taken by 52% in a successful power grab, and being an alien in the country I have been in since birth is difficult to assimilate.
when I listen to people like you it does make me wonder how we can both be living on the same planet.
my main problem with brexit has been that T.May & the rest of the government /parliament are trying to appease all sides, but especially the remainers. The referendum was quite simple....we leave the EU. We joined it quite easily enough (at the 2nd time of asking) so we leave in the same way. There was always going to be tough decisions along the way, but you have to make them & move on. There has been too much fannying about. We should have told the EU our terms....paid them our exit fee & left.
To use the phrase 'people like you' in order to put me in a box is similar to the catch all phrase of 'foreigners' and 'immigrants'. You can describe me by what I have done (voted remain) but please don't use the 'people like you' phrase because in my view that is straying into a territory very close to that occupied by the racists.
You're a loon.
Feck me! A response from Sigmund Freud.
You're the one who brought up racism about a comment made from one middle aged white man, to another middle aged white man.
Its ok Stu, I can fight my own battles. I wasn't going to sink to the depths that some posters do by name calling just because I had the audacity to reply.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
The point is I didn't 'name call' you, I pushed back at your generalizing 'people like you' phrase aimed at me. Neither did I call you a racist.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border. In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
Read 5 paragraphs and come across this already "This is sustainable as long as the UK does not require visas for EU27 visitors, and that the Republic of Ireland does not join the Schengen area."
So that's two big assumptions and two potential problems dismissed with a wave of the pen straight away.
"Let's ignore the bits I have no answer to and get on with the bits I do".
For the record, I would love for Ireland to join the Schengen. Its fantastic getting off a plane and not having to go through customs, just off the plane and out the front door.
Comments
Not that I know anything about Freud, well, I have a basic awareness of the late Clement...
While, behind the paywall, Stephen Collins makes a case with which I am not entirely in accord.
Stephen Collins: Prospect of hard Brexit receding
Squaring Border circle remains one of the most intractable elements of negotiations
The good news for Ireland from this week’s drama in the House of Commons is that thanks to Theresa May’s deal with the sensible wing of the Conservative Party the prospect of a no-deal Brexit now seems remote at best. Given the many twists and turns in the Brexit process to date, nothing can be totally ruled out but it would appear that the United Kingdom is heading in the direction of a soft Brexit.
However, even if the doomsday scenario looks to be off the table there is still huge uncertainty about the precise nature of the deal that will ultimately emerge and the Irish Government will have some difficult calls to make in the months ahead.
It is generally accepted that agreement on the Irish backstop, which was due to be finalised at the EU summit in Brussels next week, will have to be postponed because the British have still not come up with an acceptable formula to deal with a frictionless border.
“This is all going to go down to the wire in October and the Irish issue will inevitably be a pawn in the end game as the final shape of future relationship between the EU and the UK is sorted out,” said one senior Brussels figure.
He added that Ireland did not have a lot to fear from this scenario as support for this country is solid across the EU while there is little sympathy for the British position. Still, if everything is up for grabs in October the Irish side will have difficult decisions to make under pressure.
Former taoiseach Enda Kenny warned this week that the European Council meeting in October would not be a negotiating meeting. “If negotiations have not been concluded before that meeting, then the EU Council will meet to discuss among themselves without Britain. This is really crucial,” Kenny said on Monday when being presented with the European of the Year award in Dublin.
In his speech, Kenny scotched any notion that he favoured a softer approach to the negotiations than his successor Leo Varadkar. He pointed out that six months on from the Irish backstop agreement last December, very little progress had been made to flesh it out.
Spectre of Labour
“The EU continues to negotiate from a unified position, British business is afraid to speak out because of the spectre of a Labour government,” he added.
While he is right to point out that October is the deadline for the UK to agree a final legal text of the withdrawal agreement, so that it can be ratified by the European Council and Parliament as well as the House of Commons, deadlines can always be deferred if necessary.
Boris Johnson’s derogatory comment about the tail wagging the dog reflects his real view of this country
The crucial thing about May’s agreement with Tory moderates this week is that a hard Brexit no longer appears to be a live option. This is due to the persistence and clever parliamentary tactics of a relatively small group of courageous MPs who have been so vilified by a section of the British media that their lives have been threatened.
Chief among them is former attorney general Dominic Grieve, who tabled this week’s Commons motion to strengthen parliament’s role in the Brexit negotiations. After receiving assurances from May, he voted with the government but was adamant that the concerns of his group would be addressed. “I expect the government to honour its commitments... If it were to turn out there was a problem, we will deal with it,” he remarked when some of Tory Brexiteers insisted that May had not modified her position.
Grieve is a long-time member of the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly. He has a detailed knowledge of this country and the problems that will be created if Brexit results in the restoration of a hard border.
Time-limited backstop
How the Border circle can be squared remains one of the most intractable elements of the negotiations in the months ahead. The British plan published last week for a time-limited backstop for the entire UK represents some movement in the right direction but there is a long way to go.
Varadkar gave it a tentative welcome but EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier took a decidedly more negative view expressing serious doubts about how a backstop arrangement to keep Northern Ireland in regulatory alignment with the EU could be applied to the whole of the UK. He remarked that what was feasible for a territory the size of the North might not be feasible for the UK as a whole.
The fact the Border is such an important issue for the entire EU is a tribute to the approach taken by the Government and its officials and has undoubtedly helped to push the British in the direction of a soft rather than a hard Brexit. That has infuriated Brexiteers such as Boris Johnson. His derogatory comment about the tail wagging the dog reflects his real view of this country.
This week’s Commons manoeuvring has put Johnson and his cronies on the back foot. They will undoubtedly make further efforts to drag things back their way but for the moment at least their desire for a no-deal Brexit has been thwarted.
For a poster who reduced their reasoning to three words, 'you're a loon', perhaps anything more complex is a bit of a stretch.
I've no doubt you'll get your own back.
All I will say is that the remainers have won. After this weeks shenanigans there will be no hard brexit, no "no deal", but simply a very soft brexit. There is already a transition arrangement that means we will still be part of the EU until Jan 2021 but wont be able to have any say in any laws made after we leave in March 2019. We will have to pay £40bn & get nothing for it & will also be in some form of Customs Union because of Ireland. If you think this is what leaving the EU means then I don't suppose you've been divorced (twice) like I have.
I urge anyone who hasn't seen it to watch thurs nights episode of This Week. AC Greyling is frightening in his views on what should happen now & Andrew Neils questions to Liz & Michael & their answers at the end of the programmed summed it all up. Absolute farce.
I can't think of a single reason why a soft brexit with customs union will have any advantage over being a full member. We lose our place at the table, and we had a very powerful voice there.
I also think a soft brexit is better than a hard brexit. But I would, I voted remain and think the EU is on the whole a good thing to be part of. But the public disagreed, and full membership is off the table. Got to pick the best of the remaining options.
Your assertion here that remain has won isn't evident in any way. In the vacuum of ideas from leavers the space is occupied by remain sceptics who are successful simply by asking brexiters awkward questions, as I ask you and others for a solution to the Irish Border.
In the absence of knowing what to do with their victory brexiters are distracting everybody by obsessing about those who oppose them.
I too saw Grayling. In the programme I agreed with Kendall about no second referendum but also agree with Grayling that in a second referendum won by leave that should be that, because we have now had the debate that should have happened before the first vote.
By the way given your statements about it above, are you able to state your plan for the Irish border? I have asked you several times, is your response that it is somebody else's problem to solve, or that you don't have a clue?
I wonder how many people voted Leave with the hope that we would have a soft brexit. Perhaps, persuaded by people like Nigel Farage ("what's wrong with the Norway option?") or Daniel Hanan ("Nobody, and I repeat nobody, is threatening our place in the single market").
It seems likely that, at the referendum, some people voted with the intention of instigating a hard brexit (split between those who wanted to negotiate their way out of everything and those who wanted to leave with no deal) and many, many more voted with the intention of not harming the economy as much as a hard brexit would (split between those wanting a soft brexit and those wanting to remain).
Maybe we should follow the will of the people and end any speculation that we should head towards a hard brexit. And maybe there should be a referendum between soft brexit and remain. Or would that be a bit too democatic for some?
Golfie is right that Remain wins if no deal is taken off the table. The EU will feel no need to make any kind of deal if they know we will not walk away-it is a simple fact of how negotiations work.
As far as I understand it the technology doesn't exist, and my thoughts are that the practicalities won't work, if there is some magic solution then fine. The technological solution will apply to trade in goods and stratified various types of business and requires methods of registration. Presumably there would a!so need to be forces to monitor this and react to transgressions.
I sort of joked months ago that the technological solution would need every person to be microchipped in the ear lobe to deal with the movement of people across the border in the absence of documentary checks. The interesting paper you have linked avoids talking about the movement of people, and about properties that span the border as well as multiple crossings per day back and forth.
At least this paper exists, but again on first reading it back, mentions the caveats. It is incomplete because it is not fully comprehensive regarding all the issues, and tellingly it has suggestions that allude to the ROI government being obliged to follow the UK lead in all this, on something they might have problems with, and certainly something Ireland wasn't involved in voting for.
My early conclusion is that the paper you linked does not reveal a workable solution to th at land border with 220 crossing points, and properties spanning the border or about the movement of individual people.
I would welcome a push back at my interpretation where it can be shown that the problems I have highlighted can be overcome.
but I have a clue how to solve it from a UK prospective (ie, to fulfill the referendun & leave the EU & have control of our borders)....make sure there is a hard border between the 2. How do other countries such as Mecica, Canada, Argentina etc etc. I've never been to those countries so I truely don't know.
Just because that goes against the GFA is no relevance. The GFA will have to be re-visited & re-done.....just like all the other legislation that we are "bringing back under our control". If you feel that there is no answer then I would ask why was the Referendum ever conducted in the first place ?? Might as well have asked the country if we wanted to join the USA in that case.
There is no such word as can't.
Perhaps it should be posted every day in the morning, a bit like "assembly" at school, so the same lie doesn't keep getting repeated (though it will be after half an hour anyway).
So that's two big assumptions and two potential problems dismissed with a wave of the pen straight away.
"Let's ignore the bits I have no answer to and get on with the bits I do".