It has been suggested to me that the UK civil servants involved in brexit are not working to rule, but very much to the letter. Express instructions in evidential form have to be obtained from government ministers, what they do or don't do has to be faithful all rules and guidelines. They are working in a way in which their roles and responsibilities are unarguable, because if an enquiry ever happens over brexit, like the Chilcott enquiry, they have covered their backs absolutely. If when suggesting somebody ought to sort out brexit, just get on with it, leave, then the buck stops squarely with the politicians, so those politicians can't wriggle out of it by blaming the civil service.
I think again this illustrates how successful the Leave campaign was at putting concepts in people's heads - taking back control, sovereignty and here Michael Gove's throwaway (or calculated?) 'I think we've had enough of experts'. It does show how important it is to convey soundbites and slogans in politics no matter how accurate they are - many of the things that were said get picked up and recycled endlessly as people's own opinion.
Perhaps the Remain campaign should have had some of their own rather than general economic meltdown predictions. A lack of catchphrases seems to have cost them, and the country, dearly.
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
You sound a bit like an expert @aliwibble. Chippy can’t be doing with all those incontrovertible facts and stuff.
I’m predicting you get an lol and a one sentence repost.
I think again this illustrates how successful the Leave campaign was at putting concepts in people's heads - taking back control, sovereignty and here Michael Gove's throwaway (or calculated?) 'I think we've had enough of experts'. It does show how important it is to convey soundbites and slogans in politics no matter how accurate they are - many of the things that were said get picked up and recycled endlessly as people's own opinion.
Perhaps the Remain campaign should have had some of their own rather than general economic meltdown predictions. A lack of catchphrases seems to have cost them, and the country, dearly.
I think the problem is everyone thinks they are experts rather than having enough of them. The reality is most people’s expertise is limited and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, it’s just the way it is. Ask anyone to explain the single market, customs union or what is a trade deal, ( not a generalisation but an in depth explanation with examples), they would struggle. Someone who could explain in detail what any of those three are would send me to sleep within ten minutes. Dull and boring they may be but I think we may need real experience and expertise on number of issues in the coming months. Just to say, “we want it and have won a vote and it’s the government of the days problem to deliver it”, is quite an incredibly non expert as you can get but Gove and co got away with it. Now our government is struggling on all fronts, surprise, surprise.
No. A journalist. Reporting on an article in The Times. Which was about a report drawn up about the effects of Brexit, by experts, ie the civil service.
Have you so thoroughly bought in to the mantra that "experts" is something to be feared or ignored?
There's a fine line between being scared by experts and being concerned by some of what they disseminate. I'm worried for you and your ilk, Chippy, if you genuinely are afraid of experts. Because, frankly, where would you go once you realise you need help?
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
You don’t need any help ? You’ll soon go running to seek the advice of “experts” should you (god forbid) find yourself in ill health won’t you.
People spend years studying and working in a particular field and earn the right to be considered “an expert” be that in medicine or mechanical engineering. There’s no such thing as 100% certainty in any field of expertise but you risk much when you think you know better than those that have years of experience.
You and your ilk are arrogant and stupid to the maximum degree. Answer me this. You I know are considered “an expert” in your field of heating and ventilation ( apologies if that not quite correct). Would you poor scorn onto someone with little or no experience in your area of expertise if they told you you were talking bollocks ?
Y2K wasn't a well planned out blah, blah - it was a massive, expensive con
Absolutely no doubt that some firms made a killing using the Millennium Bug as an excuse to sell unnecessary upgrades. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't a real threat and that businesses has to plan for.
I think again this illustrates how successful the Leave campaign was at putting concepts in people's heads - taking back control, sovereignty and here Michael Gove's throwaway (or calculated?) 'I think we've had enough of experts'. It does show how important it is to convey soundbites and slogans in politics no matter how accurate they are - many of the things that were said get picked up and recycled endlessly as people's own opinion.
Perhaps the Remain campaign should have had some of their own rather than general economic meltdown predictions. A lack of catchphrases seems to have cost them, and the country, dearly.
I think the problem is everyone thinks they are experts rather than having enough of them. The reality is most people’s expertise is limited and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, it’s just the way it is. Ask anyone to explain the single market, customs union or what is a trade deal, ( not a generalisation but an in depth explanation with examples), they would struggle. Someone who could explain in detail what any of those three are would send me to sleep within ten minutes. Dull and boring they may be but I think we may need real experience and expertise on number of issues in the coming months. Just to say, “we want it and have won a vote and it’s the government of the days problem to deliver it”, is quite an incredibly non expert as you can get but Gove and co got away with it. Now our government is struggling on all fronts, surprise, surprise.
No need to worry, it's only a short-term problem...
The Government only has to agree with itself workable solutions, draft them into coherent arguments, submit them for the pre-EU Council meeting negotiations/discussions, and persuade the EU Commission/EU27 that the plans put forward will meet their needs for a negotiated exit settlement, within the next two weeks (copyright S Coveney).
IMHO, failure to do so will make it virtually impossible to have any kind of agreed departure next March, and will render the much vaunted transition agreement null and void.
It's not like any of us might argue that recent history indicates that the current Government are unlikely to achieve any of this, much less within a fortnight.
I think again this illustrates how successful the Leave campaign was at putting concepts in people's heads - taking back control, sovereignty and here Michael Gove's throwaway (or calculated?) 'I think we've had enough of experts'. It does show how important it is to convey soundbites and slogans in politics no matter how accurate they are - many of the things that were said get picked up and recycled endlessly as people's own opinion.
Perhaps the Remain campaign should have had some of their own rather than general economic meltdown predictions. A lack of catchphrases seems to have cost them, and the country, dearly.
I think the problem is everyone thinks they are experts rather than having enough of them. The reality is most people’s expertise is limited and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, it’s just the way it is. Ask anyone to explain the single market, customs union or what is a trade deal, ( not a generalisation but an in depth explanation with examples), they would struggle. Someone who could explain in detail what any of those three are would send me to sleep within ten minutes. Dull and boring they may be but I think we may need real experience and expertise on number of issues in the coming months. Just to say, “we want it and have won a vote and it’s the government of the days problem to deliver it”, is quite an incredibly non expert as you can get but Gove and co got away with it. Now our government is struggling on all fronts, surprise, surprise.
No need to worry, it's only a short-term problem...
The Government only has to agree with itself workable solutions, draft them into coherent arguments, submit them for the pre-EU Council meeting negotiations/discussions, and persuade the EU Commission/EU27 that the plans out forward will meet their needs for a negotiated exit settlement, within the next two weeks (copyright S Coveney).
IMHO, failure to do so will make it virtually impossible to have any kind of agreed departure next March, and will render the much vaunted transition agreement null and void.
It's not like any of us might argue that recent history indicates that the current Government are unlikely to achieve any of this, much less within a fortnight.
No. A journalist. Reporting on an article in The Times. Which was about a report drawn up about the effects of Brexit, by experts, ie the civil service.
Have you so thoroughly bought in to the mantra that "experts" is something to be feared or ignored?
There's a fine line between being scared by experts and being concerned by some of what they disseminate. I'm worried for you and your ilk, Chippy, if you genuinely are afraid of experts. Because, frankly, where would you go once you realise you need help?
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
You don’t need any help ? You’ll soon go running to seek the advice of “experts” should you (god forbid) find yourself in ill health won’t you.
People spend years studying and working in a particular field and earn the right to be considered “an expert” be that in medicine or mechanical engineering. There’s no such thing as 100% certainty in any field of expertise but you risk much when you think you know better than those that have years of experience.
You and your ilk are arrogant and stupid to the maximum degree. Answer me this. You I know are considered “an expert” in your field of heating and ventilation ( apologies if that not quite correct). Would you poor scorn onto someone with little or no experience in your area of expertise if they told you you were talking bollocks ?
No. A journalist. Reporting on an article in The Times. Which was about a report drawn up about the effects of Brexit, by experts, ie the civil service.
Have you so thoroughly bought in to the mantra that "experts" is something to be feared or ignored?
There's a fine line between being scared by experts and being concerned by some of what they disseminate. I'm worried for you and your ilk, Chippy, if you genuinely are afraid of experts. Because, frankly, where would you go once you realise you need help?
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
You don’t need any help ? You’ll soon go running to seek the advice of “experts” should you (god forbid) find yourself in ill health won’t you.
People spend years studying and working in a particular field and earn the right to be considered “an expert” be that in medicine or mechanical engineering. There’s no such thing as 100% certainty in any field of expertise but you risk much when you think you know better than those that have years of experience.
You and your ilk are arrogant and stupid to the maximum degree. Answer me this. You I know are considered “an expert” in your field of heating and ventilation ( apologies if that not quite correct). Would you poor scorn onto someone with little or no experience in your area of expertise if they told you you were talking bollocks ?
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
You sound a bit like an expert @aliwibble. Chippy can’t be doing with all those incontrovertible facts and stuff.
I’m predicting you get an lol and a one sentence repost.
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
So where were you that night in 1999... Guess where i was.....
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
So where were you that night in 1999... Guess where i was.....
Y2K wasn't a well planned out blah, blah - it was a massive, expensive con
Absolutely no doubt that some firms made a killing using the Millennium Bug as an excuse to sell unnecessary upgrades. But that doesn't mean that there wasn't a real threat and that businesses has to plan for.
Well said.. But you can't beat the experts here who had naff all to do with it.
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
So where were you that night in 1999... Guess where i was.....
That night I was at a New Year's Eve party in Charlton, and went to watch the fireworks over the dome from the flyover over the Blackwall Tunnel approach road. A small number of my colleagues were on call to support the out of hours staff in case of any issues on the systems that they used during the switchover, I think the network and server teams were in on the Sunday, and IIRC most of us had to go in on the Bank Holiday Monday to test the systems before the ordinary staff were back in on the Tuesday. For the next week or so I had to do some manual data modifications for transfers into an old legacy system that wasn't worth the expense of upgrading, and there were a few shenanigans around the year end processing in March/April, but the bulk of the donkey work had been done in the previous 2 years or so with a big effort to recode or replace the systems, and test that they behaved as expected.
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
So where were you that night in 1999... Guess where i was.....
That night I was at a New Year's Eve party in Charlton, and went to watch the fireworks over the dome from the flyover over the Blackwall Tunnel approach road. A small number of my colleagues were on call to support the out of hours staff in case of any issues on the systems that they used during the switchover, I think the network and server teams were in on the Sunday, and IIRC most of us had to go in on the Bank Holiday Monday to test the systems before the ordinary staff were back in on the Tuesday. For the next week or so I had to do some manual data modifications for transfers into an old legacy system that wasn't worth the expense of upgrading, and there were a few shenanigans around the year end processing in March/April, but the bulk of the donkey work had been done in the previous 2 years or so with a big effort to recode or replace the systems, and test that they behaved as expected.
That is excellent and glad you enjoyed yourself....I was working that night. Was on days but they couldn't get anyone in to cover the nights overtime, so they bribed 3 of us with cash to come in between 11.00PM till 2.00.AM. Most of our equipment was tested for year 2000 compliance but no-one was totally sure.
Mostly everything was fine on our building services side. That wasn't true for our telephone systems they failed but BT said it had nothing to do with the bug. It hadn't crashed before and hasn't done since.....
Don't need any help thank you very much......I am doing nicely thanks for your concern......I am not scared its the constant posting of people no-ones heard of, in a desperate act to scaremonger as usual...as said on the Marr show this morning....does everyone recall the millennium bug that was going to destroy us...
Oh not this bollocks again. As I said on the original Brexit thread back in March 2016 - "This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
So where were you that night in 1999... Guess where i was.....
Remainers have to be patient, there are big risks for Brexit but with current polls only showing a slight lead for remain, if they make their move at the wrong time, it could affect public opinion and Brexit can only be reversed democratically! Rest assured that remainers from all political sides are keeping their powder dry for a do or die push!
In the Autumn parliament will vote on the government’s “withdrawal agreement” with Europe. MPs definitely won’t vote the bill down as they are frightened they will be accused of going against the will of the people. But there won't be any detail in it as if there was, the Conservative party will be fractured! However, with Labour support and 20 or so Tories, MPs could vote for a second referendum next year that gives VOTERS final approval over the terms of withdrawal. The EU would give Britain time to hold one. That is the opportunity - but a referendum would need to be won, which is by no means certain!
I expect the Labour position will be that it respects the will of the people, but the government has made such a mess of negotiations, and with there still being no clarity, we just can't leave on any terms no matter how harsh. We need the British people to sign off what has been agreed!
Remainers have to be patient, there are big risks for Brexit but with current polls only showing a slight lead for remain, if they make their move at the wrong time, it could affect public opinion and Brexit can only be reversed democratically! Rest assured that remainers from all political sides are keeping their powder dry for a do or die push!
In the Autumn parliament will vote on the government’s “withdrawal agreement” with Europe. MPs definitely won’t vote the bill down as they are frightened they will be accused of going against the will of the people. But there won't be any detail in it as if there was, the Conservative party will be fractured! However, with Labour support and 20 or so Tories, MPs could vote for a second referendum next year that gives VOTERS final approval over the terms of withdrawal. The EU would give Britain time to hold one. That is the opportunity - but a referendum would need to be won, which is by no means certain!
I expect the Labour position will be that it respects the will of the people, but the government has made such a mess of negotiations, and with there still being no clarity, we just can't leave on any terms no matter how harsh. We need the British people to sign off what has been agreed!
I would never vote for any MP that voted in Parliament for a second referendum on this issue.
It has been suggested to me that the UK civil servants involved in brexit are not working to rule, but very much to the letter. Express instructions in evidential form have to be obtained from government ministers, what they do or don't do has to be faithful all rules and guidelines. They are working in a way in which their roles and responsibilities are unarguable, because if an enquiry ever happens over brexit, like the Chilcott enquiry, they have covered their backs absolutely. If when suggesting somebody ought to sort out brexit, just get on with it, leave, then the buck stops squarely with the politicians, so those politicians can't wriggle out of it by blaming the civil service.
That is why civil servants are constantly leaking disaster scenarios, as in the Sunday Times yesterday. Not because they they they will happen, but to make sure they have covered themselves for any eventuality-except a good one, which they will happily take credit for.
"To chase the economic moonbeams peddled by Brexiters" - No dodge the diminishing relevance of the EU "the values we prize are under global assault" - Must be alluding to the protection we need from an EU militia. "to cower behind borders that shut out the rest of our continent" - The only barriers and borders faced will continue to be those soft barriers created by rules to protect the EU project from the rest of the World.
"Brexiters dodge these truths". - Remainers live in a parallel universe created to justify their angst worried about roaming data charges on holiday in Europe.
"The EU is the citadel of rules-based international free trade and the international standard-setter that Britain did so much to create – and at whose centre we stood". - So the UK is the expert on designing and promoting free trade deals ?
TRUTHS?? -
Should be on the jokes thread. Ask non-EU countries what tariffs they bear to export agricultural goods to the EU. Easy for Remainers to be confused between the liberal internal trading rules of the EU single market with the protectionist operation of its rules to the outside world. The EU has a poor record concluding trade deals with large economies because large economies will not be bullied, like small countries are, into accepting the EU rules or nothing - yes the Guardian is right on one thing, the EU are experts on operating rules - except they are too often barriers under the pretext of being a citadel of standards.
"To chase the economic moonbeams peddled by Brexiters" - No dodge the diminishing relevance of the EU "the values we prize are under global assault" - Must be alluding to the protection we need from an EU militia. "to cower behind borders that shut out the rest of our continent" - The only barriers and borders faced will continue to be those soft barriers created by rules to protect the EU project from the rest of the World.
"Brexiters dodge these truths". - Remainers live in a parallel universe created to justify their angst worried about roaming data charges on holiday in Europe.
"The EU is the citadel of rules-based international free trade and the international standard-setter that Britain did so much to create – and at whose centre we stood". - So the UK is the expert on designing and promoting free trade deals ?
TRUTHS?? -
Should be on the jokes thread. Ask non-EU countries what tariffs they bear to export agricultural goods to the EU. Easy for Remainers to be confused between the liberal internal trading rules of the EU single market with the protectionist operation of its rules to the outside world. The EU has a poor record concluding trade deals with large economies because large economies will not be bullied, like small countries are, into accepting the EU rules or nothing - yes the Guardian is right on one thing, the EU are experts on operating rules - except they are too often barriers under the pretext of being a citadel of standards.
All the crazy Brexit arguments you were peddling since before the Referendum and a while after have been shown up to be the complete nonsense they always were by the unfolding events and emerging hard facts and truths that you and the rest of the Brexit nut jobs cannot counter with your pre referendum lies and fake news.
You are now coming acrosss as a wild eyed crazy drunken religious lunatic standing on a street corner shouting gibberish and getting ever more angrier as you watch the chasm slowly but surely opening up between your fantasy world and reality.
Trade is not the only thing though. Anyway I fail to foresee any benefit to UK trade or citizens on the horizon, or any benefit that mitigates the huge negative impact of leaving. Don't you think the forthcoming hard border, especially in Ireland come without huge social political and financial costs that eat up any (as it stands unforeseeable) benefits to the UK?
Comments
Express instructions in evidential form have to be obtained from government ministers, what they do or don't do has to be faithful all rules and guidelines. They are working in a way in which their roles and responsibilities are unarguable, because if an enquiry ever happens over brexit, like the Chilcott enquiry, they have covered their backs absolutely.
If when suggesting somebody ought to sort out brexit, just get on with it, leave, then the buck stops squarely with the politicians, so those politicians can't wriggle out of it by blaming the civil service.
Perhaps the Remain campaign should have had some of their own rather than general economic meltdown predictions. A lack of catchphrases seems to have cost them, and the country, dearly.
"This is absolute cobblers. Dealing with the Millenium Bug issue was not a theoretical risk, and huge amounts of testing, recoding, system replacements and system upgrades were involved in making sure that any systems or interfaces that relied on date fields in any way, shape or form were able to cope appropriately. The reason why disaster did not occur was because we knew exactly what circumstances we would be facing after the change, could replicate it beforehand to see what would happen, and were able to make appropriate provisions to accommodate it."
With the customs stuff, we still have no idea what rules are going to need to be applied, let alone started writing the systems to automate as much of the processing as possible. We're well past the lead time for being ready for March 2019, and we're probably pushing our luck on being ready for the end of the implementation period unless we get agreement soon, and even then we're still going to have to chuck shedloads of money at the problem to get it done in time.
I’m predicting you get an lol and a one sentence repost.
The reality is most people’s expertise is limited and I don’t mean that in a condescending way, it’s just the way it is. Ask anyone to explain the single market, customs union or what is a trade deal, ( not a generalisation but an in depth explanation with examples), they would struggle. Someone who could explain in detail what any of those three are would send me to sleep within ten minutes. Dull and boring they may be but I think we may need real experience and expertise on number of issues in the coming months.
Just to say, “we want it and have won a vote and it’s the government of the days problem to deliver it”, is quite an incredibly non expert as you can get but Gove and co got away with it. Now our government is struggling on all fronts, surprise, surprise.
The Government only has to agree with itself workable solutions, draft them into coherent arguments, submit them for the pre-EU Council meeting negotiations/discussions, and persuade the EU Commission/EU27 that the plans put forward will meet their needs for a negotiated exit settlement, within the next two weeks (copyright S Coveney).
IMHO, failure to do so will make it virtually impossible to have any kind of agreed departure next March, and will render the much vaunted transition agreement null and void.
It's not like any of us might argue that recent history indicates that the current Government are unlikely to achieve any of this, much less within a fortnight.
Mostly everything was fine on our building services side. That wasn't true for our telephone systems they failed but BT said it had nothing to do with the bug. It hadn't crashed before and hasn't done since.....
In the Autumn parliament will vote on the government’s “withdrawal agreement” with Europe. MPs definitely won’t vote the bill down as they are frightened they will be accused of going against the will of the people. But there won't be any detail in it as if there was, the Conservative party will be fractured! However, with Labour support and 20 or so Tories, MPs could vote for a second referendum next year that gives VOTERS final approval over the terms of withdrawal. The EU would give Britain time to hold one. That is the opportunity - but a referendum would need to be won, which is by no means certain!
I expect the Labour position will be that it respects the will of the people, but the government has made such a mess of negotiations, and with there still being no clarity, we just can't leave on any terms no matter how harsh. We need the British people to sign off what has been agreed!
"To chase the economic moonbeams peddled by Brexiters" - No dodge the diminishing relevance of the EU
"the values we prize are under global assault" - Must be alluding to the protection we need from an EU militia.
"to cower behind borders that shut out the rest of our continent" - The only barriers and borders faced will continue to be those soft barriers created by rules to protect the EU project from the rest of the World.
"Brexiters dodge these truths". - Remainers live in a parallel universe created to justify their angst worried about roaming data charges on holiday in Europe.
"The EU is the citadel of rules-based international free trade and the international standard-setter that Britain did so much to create – and at whose centre we stood". - So the UK is the expert on designing and promoting free trade deals ?
TRUTHS?? -
Should be on the jokes thread. Ask non-EU countries what tariffs they bear to export agricultural goods to the EU. Easy for Remainers to be confused between the liberal internal trading rules of the EU single market with the protectionist operation of its rules to the outside world. The EU has a poor record concluding trade deals with large economies because large economies will not be bullied, like small countries are, into accepting the EU rules or nothing - yes the Guardian is right on one thing, the EU are experts on operating rules - except they are too often barriers under the pretext of being a citadel of standards.
You are now coming acrosss as a wild eyed crazy drunken religious lunatic standing on a street corner shouting gibberish and getting ever more angrier as you watch the chasm slowly but surely opening up between your fantasy world and reality.
Anyway I fail to foresee any benefit to UK trade or citizens on the horizon, or any benefit that mitigates the huge negative impact of leaving.
Don't you think the forthcoming hard border, especially in Ireland come without huge social political and financial costs that eat up any (as it stands unforeseeable) benefits to the UK?