Are there seriously any people in the known universe, or even going through the black holes into an unknown universe, who dont think Boris Johnson is a complete and utter c*nt?
Of course there are or he would not be Foreign Secretary.
In short, the UK loses control of its borders (there will be no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic; but we will need "something" in place between Great Britain and Northern Ireland); and the rules for EU immigrants that have been in place and remain in place until the end of March next year stay in place beyond the end of next March.
We lose control of our borders, continue to have "uncontrolled immigration", continue to pay for membership of the EU, but lose the ability to influence laws passed.
The Quitters have systematically and piece-by-piece ensured that we no longer enjoy the benefits of EU membership, while losing control of the parts that Brexit was supposed to have improved. Well done.
In short, the UK loses control of its borders (there will be no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic; but we will need "something" in place between Great Britain and Northern Ireland); and the rules for EU immigrants that have been in place and remain in place until the end of March next year stay in place beyond the end of next March.
We lose control of our borders, continue to have "uncontrolled immigration", continue to pay for membership of the EU, but lose the ability to influence laws passed.
The Quitters have systematically and piece-by-piece ensured that we no longer enjy the benefits of EU membership, while losing control of the parts that Brexit was supposed to have improved. Well done.
What's not to like?! What is happening is that the cliff edge is being moved from March 2019 to 33 months time (December 2021). This relieves the immediate pressure on any business or financial services institution to execute contingency plans immediately. Decisions will still be made by business in terms of location and investment and the post Brexit arrangement is still completely up in the air. It also happens to place the cliff edge right next to the next election!
What we now have is a longer period of time for the democratic process via Parliament and opinion polls to take place. We will all see the impact on immigration, GDP growth, the exchange rate and, most importantly FDI. People will still argue whether the impending Brexit in three years time is affecting the economy. The choise at the end is still the same: Norway plus Customs Union or Canada free trade deal.
Meanwhile Merkel and Macron are meeting to discuss Eurozone reforms which might be put to the wider group in June this year. Nobody knows how long the Italians might take to form a government but it is crystal clear that there is a deal to be done across the Eurozone whereby local reforms and continued growth will unlock the possibilities of banking union and other aspects which will share the load. Merkel with a new finance minister is flagging up that Germany will not underwrite the whole of Europe for free - but if countries reform their regulations and approach to increase productivity and GDP, then mutualisation of debt is possible in the medium term. And a banking union with a mutual guarantee scheme might appear sooner than we thought possible.
It's very hard to tell how this debate will pan out but it does appear that the Tories have just bought themselves more time, this time by locking in a proposition on N.Ireland. Then again, as @seth plum has pointed out for at least a year, the Belfast Agreement aka the GFA always locked in the absence of a land border in Ireland. Quite amazing the amount of rhetoric from some Brexiteers who often dismissed the GFA.
As far as I can tell the 'backstop' suggestion is going to be a problem. The Tories are in hock to the DUP, and they won't agree to a border in the Irish Sea.
As far as I can tell the 'backstop' suggestion is going to be a problem. The Tories are in hock to the DUP, and they won't agree to a border in the Irish Sea.
Another £1billion bribe Investment might ease the pain
Many of us have long known suspected of what Breitbart has been up to but here is the inventor of the system telling us that 50 million profiles were illegally and knowingly used/hacked.
He takes it a stage further by explaining how the information was used including creating websites/social media that gave people the (biased) answers they were looking for. Maybe that is where @queensland_addick gets all his/her info from?
We don't need Putin to fuck us over we have plenty on our own side of the fence already doing a fine job in that regard.
*Apologies I know it has already been posted but I can't find where.
As far as I can tell the 'backstop' suggestion is going to be a problem. The Tories are in hock to the DUP, and they won't agree to a border in the Irish Sea.
Is this the first line of your Brexit Rap, Seth?
"The Tories are in hock to the DUP, and they won't agree to a border in the Irish Sea".
Any reaction to Barnier, (because he's worth it) praising the UK negotiating team that has been endlessly denounced on here as being utterly clueless?
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
Any reaction to Barnier, (because he's worth it) praising the UK negotiating team that has been endlessly denounced on here as being utterly clueless?
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
The middle way through this madness will prevail.
Just meaningless platitudes. There is only one competent negotiating team and it is not the one that continues to make all the concessions. Although the reality is that what the Brexiteers believed they could negotiate was and is a complete fantasy.
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
Have the UK won any serious concessions from the EU's original stated starting position? No. The UK, in a desperate bid to get the talks moving, are now formally agreeing to more and more of the EU terms. Why would Barnier continue to be negative when that happens?
Any reaction to Barnier, (because he's worth it) praising the UK negotiating team that has been endlessly denounced on here as being utterly clueless?
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
The middle way through this madness will prevail.
Just meaningless platitudes. There is only one competent negotiating team and it is not the one that continues to make all the concessions. Although the reality is that what the Brexiteers believed they could negotiate was and is a complete fantasy.
So you're saying that your and other posters anger at Brexit is unnecessary because we won't get what we wanted. Not that any of us had a Scooby what we did want anyway.
Despite the baiting, your side must be disappointed there have been no nibbles yet.
The final outcome is what is important to me. I will await this with interest.
My take on Barnier today was that he said the much repeated phrase 'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed'. The Irish border is no closer to a suggested practical solution than it was the day after brexit won. If the backstop happens, then not only will it pee off a whole load of people in Northern Ireland, but it will mean that brexiters effectively have voted to break up the Union. Maybe it will be Scotland next. Yet Theresa May said that there would be no backstop solution, and there it appears to be in the 'agreement' today. So the so called ace negotiators have seemingly negotiated against the Prime Ministers stance, and also risked having negotiated away the Union. Remind me again how Theresa May is able to command a majority in the 'sovereign' Parliament brexiters love.
Any reaction to Barnier, (because he's worth it) praising the UK negotiating team that has been endlessly denounced on here as being utterly clueless?
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
The middle way through this madness will prevail.
Just meaningless platitudes. There is only one competent negotiating team and it is not the one that continues to make all the concessions. Although the reality is that what the Brexiteers believed they could negotiate was and is a complete fantasy.
So you're saying that your and other posters anger at Brexit is unnecessary because we won't get what we wanted. Not that any of us had a Scooby what we did want anyway.
Despite the baiting, your side must be disappointed there have been no nibbles yet.
The final outcome is what is important to me. I will await this with interest.
My anger, and other likeminded posters' anger, is necessary because whilst it was always the case the fanciful deal touted by the Brexiteers was never going to happen what will happen is the UK will be a diminished country culturally and economically for generations to come as a result of Brexit.
Any reaction to Barnier, (because he's worth it) praising the UK negotiating team that has been endlessly denounced on here as being utterly clueless?
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
The middle way through this madness will prevail.
Just meaningless platitudes. There is only one competent negotiating team and it is not the one that continues to make all the concessions. Although the reality is that what the Brexiteers believed they could negotiate was and is a complete fantasy.
So you're saying that your and other posters anger at Brexit is unnecessary because we won't get what we wanted. Not that any of us had a Scooby what we did want anyway.
Despite the baiting, your side must be disappointed there have been no nibbles yet.
The final outcome is what is important to me. I will await this with interest.
My anger, and other likeminded posters' anger, is necessary because whilst it was always the case the fanciful deal touted by the Brexiteers was never going to happen what will happen is the UK will be a diminished country culturally and economically for generations to come as a result of Brexit.
Once again, a remainer knows what's going to happen but leavers never did and still don't. Or so we are always told.
Any reaction to Barnier, (because he's worth it) praising the UK negotiating team that has been endlessly denounced on here as being utterly clueless?
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
The middle way through this madness will prevail.
Just meaningless platitudes. There is only one competent negotiating team and it is not the one that continues to make all the concessions. Although the reality is that what the Brexiteers believed they could negotiate was and is a complete fantasy.
So you're saying that your and other posters anger at Brexit is unnecessary because we won't get what we wanted. Not that any of us had a Scooby what we did want anyway.
Despite the baiting, your side must be disappointed there have been no nibbles yet.
The final outcome is what is important to me. I will await this with interest.
My anger, and other likeminded posters' anger, is necessary because whilst it was always the case the fanciful deal touted by the Brexiteers was never going to happen what will happen is the UK will be a diminished country culturally and economically for generations to come as a result of Brexit.
Once again, a remainer knows what's going to happen but leavers never did and still don't. Or so we are always told.
I will dip out again.
Well the government have no idea how it will turn out so why should you.
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does no one see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Well they just showed the whole video of it on C4 news, and that looks just as cringe-worthy.
I don't think you can expect people to actually be excited about today's agreement, but nevertheless, thank heavens we have it.
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Who is james felton
Great harmonica player...or is that Mark Feltham...
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Who is james felton
Great harmonica player...or is that Mark Feltham...
Now there's a quality contribution. Seeing him in a fortnight!
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
I am afraid I struggle to find anything positive because I don't find leaving the EU positive for any reason at all, and the details are equally difficult for me to accept, and difficult if not impossible to sort out. If two blokes have been polite for a while then fine, but the overarching fundamental for me is the dreadful event of brexit.
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Who is james felton
Great harmonica player...or is that Mark Feltham...
Now there's a quality contribution. Seeing him in a fortnight!
Glad to hear he is still going. He must be older than David Davis? Who is he playing with?
Why would Barnier be spouting 'meaningless platitudes'? I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
It's normal. Barnier recognises that a big stage in the process has been completed - at last - and wishes to close the chapter, with no overhang of bad feeling from the preceding discussions. On to a new stage, clean slate. Standard personal skills in negotiation. Class, in other words. Too bad that class is in short supply on the other side
Wow - a momentary photo proves everything?? Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does noone see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
I am afraid I struggle to find anything positive because I don't find leaving the EU positive for any reason at all, and the details are equally difficult for me to accept, and difficult if not impossible to sort out. If two blokes have been polite for a while then fine, but the overarching fundamental for me is the dreadful event of brexit.
I think we all get that. Sounds like you will be negative until your last day then?
Comments
In short, the UK loses control of its borders (there will be no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic; but we will need "something" in place between Great Britain and Northern Ireland); and the rules for EU immigrants that have been in place and remain in place until the end of March next year stay in place beyond the end of next March.
We lose control of our borders, continue to have "uncontrolled immigration", continue to pay for membership of the EU, but lose the ability to influence laws passed.
The Quitters have systematically and piece-by-piece ensured that we no longer enjoy the benefits of EU membership, while losing control of the parts that Brexit was supposed to have improved. Well done.
What is happening is that the cliff edge is being moved from March 2019 to 33 months time (December 2021). This relieves the immediate pressure on any business or financial services institution to execute contingency plans immediately. Decisions will still be made by business in terms of location and investment and the post Brexit arrangement is still completely up in the air. It also happens to place the cliff edge right next to the next election!
What we now have is a longer period of time for the democratic process via Parliament and opinion polls to take place. We will all see the impact on immigration, GDP growth, the exchange rate and, most importantly FDI. People will still argue whether the impending Brexit in three years time is affecting the economy. The choise at the end is still the same: Norway plus Customs Union or Canada free trade deal.
Meanwhile Merkel and Macron are meeting to discuss Eurozone reforms which might be put to the wider group in June this year. Nobody knows how long the Italians might take to form a government but it is crystal clear that there is a deal to be done across the Eurozone whereby local reforms and continued growth will unlock the possibilities of banking union and other aspects which will share the load. Merkel with a new finance minister is flagging up that Germany will not underwrite the whole of Europe for free - but if countries reform their regulations and approach to increase productivity and GDP, then mutualisation of debt is possible in the medium term. And a banking union with a mutual guarantee scheme might appear sooner than we thought possible.
It's very hard to tell how this debate will pan out but it does appear that the Tories have just bought themselves more time, this time by locking in a proposition on N.Ireland. Then again, as @seth plum has pointed out for at least a year, the Belfast Agreement aka the GFA always locked in the absence of a land border in Ireland. Quite amazing the amount of rhetoric from some Brexiteers who often dismissed the GFA.
The Tories are in hock to the DUP, and they won't agree to a border in the Irish Sea.
bribeInvestment might ease the painMany of us have long known suspected of what Breitbart has been up to but here is the inventor of the system telling us that 50 million profiles were illegally and knowingly used/hacked.
He takes it a stage further by explaining how the information was used including creating websites/social media that gave people the (biased) answers they were looking for. Maybe that is where @queensland_addick gets all his/her info from?
We don't need Putin to fuck us over we have plenty on our own side of the fence already doing a fine job in that regard.
*Apologies I know it has already been posted but I can't find where.
"The Tories are in hock to the DUP, and they won't agree to a border in the Irish Sea".
I listened to his live translated speech, but strangely cant find any video or transcript of the first part of his announcement where he stated how well the UK and EU negotiators had done.
Doesn't seem so long ago that many on here were saying we didn't even have any negotiators.
The middle way through this madness will prevail.
https://www.open-britain.co.uk/background_briefing_seven_broken_promises_on_transition
I mean I know that helps you explain it in your world, but in reality - after all the negativity from Barnier and others, why change now?
Despite the baiting, your side must be disappointed there have been no nibbles yet.
The final outcome is what is important to me. I will await this with interest.
If the backstop happens, then not only will it pee off a whole load of people in Northern Ireland, but it will mean that brexiters effectively have voted to break up the Union. Maybe it will be Scotland next.
Yet Theresa May said that there would be no backstop solution, and there it appears to be in the 'agreement' today.
So the so called ace negotiators have seemingly negotiated against the Prime Ministers stance, and also risked having negotiated away the Union.
Remind me again how Theresa May is able to command a majority in the 'sovereign' Parliament brexiters love.
I will dip out again.
Really flawed tweet.
As for class - both sides in fulsome praise - does no one see any positive to this or shall we just continue to cynically weave our own narratives in a desperate bid to explain it?
Well they just showed the whole video of it on C4 news, and that looks just as cringe-worthy.
I don't think you can expect people to actually be excited about today's agreement, but nevertheless, thank heavens we have it.
Seeing him in a fortnight!
If two blokes have been polite for a while then fine, but the overarching fundamental for me is the dreadful event of brexit.
Huge tour this April / May with a warm up with Mr Tillbrook.
Edit....Mark is 62
Sounds like you will be negative until your last day then?