Happy to give you an opinion @Southbank . It stinks. Just like many political appointments around the globe including, perhaps especially, within the UK.
Now, explain to us why you believe and what evidence you have that leads to such disparate groups such as the TUC and the CBI working together as part of the Remain elite conspiracy when they are in every other situation in opposition to each other?
I agree with @Bournemouth Addick that it stinks (admittedly, though, it's possibly not corruption of the highest order, so much as nepotism), but I would just caution against assuming that this is, necessarily, unique to the EU.
Even in cases where there is a promotion "competition" in the case of a Civil Service (senior or otherwise), there is a remarkable tendency for the successful candidate to be the individual favoured by management. Of course, I'm probably just bitter and twisted.
And, in partial defence of the EU in this case, they have been remarkably willing to answer the journalists, even if it was like pulling hens' teeth. A genuinely corrupt organization, the UK Civil Service, or most public authorities, would not respond to journalists' queries as quickly, if at all.
Juncker has acted crassly in seeking to promote his protégé before his term comes to an end. He was obvious, and has been caught out. If he'd been smarter, he could have managed an "open and fair promotion competition" and Martin Selmayr could have been the successful candidate, obviously solely on his merits.
No one says it is perfect but there is plenty of corruption everywhere - see answers above. Best way to prevent it is to fight it, can't do that from outside. Much more good done by the EU than negatives. The question you have to ask yourself is what negative effect has the EU had on me personally. And if there is one, is it outweighed by the good? The answer in 95% of cases, if you can bring it upon yourself to be honest, is that there is no negative effect...
At the risk of appearing to one of many ganging up to pick on you, I just wonder if this is a good time to mention radar and transponders? Or things like Air Traffic Control, Port Authorities, or the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency?
All aircraft entering UK airspace are tracked to their destination and, as the link below shows, a similar process is applied to shipping in UK waters.
So, it would appear that everyone is logged, and checked to see where it is heading. It might be slightly more difficult applying rules that work for a Maersk container ship or a cargo 747, that for a Transit van crossing the border near Lisnaskea.
By your rationale, the UK would seem to have a problem.
Just a thought.
So you've identified a new problem, ergo there can be no new solution as advance blueprints for a solution have not been presented?
I can understand the EU, in a negotiating position, calling for detail before progressing. I fail to understand why the anti Brexit sentiments of politicians and UK citizens apes the negotiating stance of the EU. Instead of engaging in any level of positive contribution to ensure Brexit has least adverse impact, the stance taken with pride is (even noticed it in Major's address) "..it's not my problem I voted Remain". I find this extraordinary and only adds to the view that the least favourable outcome is preferred by Remainers to any other. It's a win win for Remainers. The lack of engagement either contributes to Brexit being scuppered or a sub optimal outcome they will have brought to fruition to prove them right.
In response to the problem raised for non flying goods, one could speculate on the use of chips and GPS tracking for any kind of vehicle or form of transportation - sorry it's only an idea so feel free to knock it down on the basis there is no precedent and all the technical challenges have not been set down on a football forum.
@Bournemouth Addick not sure why you thought I was referring to your post or anyone else's in particular.
The black economy will continue whether in or out of the EU regardless of border controls. Technology does however give potential for a blip to appear on the radar for any unregistered business. Again feel free to ridicule any such high level idea on the basis I haven't got a clue how it would work in practice.
At the risk of appearing to one of many ganging up to pick on you, I just wonder if this is a good time to mention radar and transponders? Or things like Air Traffic Control, Port Authorities, or the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency?
All aircraft entering UK airspace are tracked to their destination and, as the link below shows, a similar process is applied to shipping in UK waters.
So, it would appear that everyone is logged, and checked to see where it is heading. It might be slightly more difficult applying rules that work for a Maersk container ship or a cargo 747, that for a Transit van crossing the border near Lisnaskea.
By your rationale, the UK would seem to have a problem.
Just a thought.
So you've identified a new problem, ergo there can be no new solution as advance blueprints for a solution have not been presented?
I can understand the EU, in a negotiating position, calling for detail before progressing. I fail to understand why the anti Brexit sentiments of politicians and UK citizens apes the negotiating stance of the EU. Instead of engaging in any level of positive contribution to ensure Brexit has least adverse impact, the stance taken with pride is (even noticed it in Major's address) "..it's not my problem I voted Remain". I find this extraordinary and only adds to the view that the least favourable outcome is preferred by Remainers to any other. It's a win win for Remainers. The lack of engagement either contributes to Brexit being scuppered or a sub optimal outcome they will have brought to fruition to prove them right.
In response to the problem raised for non flying goods, one could speculate on the use of chips and GPS tracking for any kind of vehicle or form of transportation - sorry it's only an idea so feel free to knock it down on the basis there is no precedent and all the technical challenges have not been set down on a football forum.
@Bournemouth Addick not sure why you thought I was referring to your post or anyone else's in particular.
The black economy will continue whether in or out of the EU regardless of border controls. Technology does however give potential for a blip to appear on the radar for any unregistered business. Again feel free to ridicule any such high level idea on the basis I haven't got a clue how it would work in practice.
You are absolutely right in saying the stance, certainly from me and may be others, is to say 'it's not my problem, I voted remain'. You mention it because you seem to be disappointed about the negative contribution of remainers, and you seem to want suggestions so as to get what you call the 'least adverse impact'. That is a few steps away from brexit being any good. If I read you right you feel frustrated that remainers are not involved in a damage limitation exercise. I dispute your view that how people engage here would scupper brexit, mainly because brexit hasn't been scuppered, brexit won, and isn't it a wrong call to suggest that if it is a dreadful outcome it will be down to the remainers for not being more positive? Isn't it up to the brexiters to show the way? You talk of the least favourable outcome happening, well I for one would say it has already happened simply because brexit won, and I don't see as how anything favourable can be attributed to that victory, or flow from that victory. And again like a broken record I repeat it is not down to the EU to be especially accommodating outside their clear rules and procedures, and it is not down to remainers to heal this mess and division, it is down to brexiters. It really isn't our problem, we voted remain.
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
It is tangentially Brexit related as leavers continually tell us that once we leave the EU we'll be able to get these great trade deals elsewhere. What this move by Trump shows is that one of the biggest markets on earth, where the UK would have been looking to make up with lost trade with the EU, is now hostile to external trade partners and that any hope of a great deal there (if there ever was a genuine chance anyway) is unlikely in the extreme now.
Yeah. Come on all you pro EU guys - the ones who said that the EU is perfect as it is and requires no improvements whatsoever? Where are you all now that someone's pointed out someone saying he thinks there is someone corrupt? Not so noisy now are you? All you "the EU doesn't need reform" brigade.
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
It is tangentially Brexit related as leavers continually tell us that once we leave the EU we'll be able to get these great trade deals elsewhere. What this move by Trump shows is that one of the biggest markets on earth, where the UK would have been looking to make up with lost trade with the EU, is now hostile to external trade partners and that any hope of a great deal there (if there ever was a genuine chance anyway) is unlikely in the extreme now.
Pfffffft, what do they know? About as reliable as the remainers who insisted that Nigel or Boris would be our next PM after Cameron stood down
At the risk of appearing to one of many ganging up to pick on you, I just wonder if this is a good time to mention radar and transponders? Or things like Air Traffic Control, Port Authorities, or the UK Maritime and Coastguard Agency?
All aircraft entering UK airspace are tracked to their destination and, as the link below shows, a similar process is applied to shipping in UK waters.
So, it would appear that everyone is logged, and checked to see where it is heading. It might be slightly more difficult applying rules that work for a Maersk container ship or a cargo 747, that for a Transit van crossing the border near Lisnaskea.
By your rationale, the UK would seem to have a problem.
Just a thought.
So you've identified a new problem, ergo there can be no new solution as advance blueprints for a solution have not been presented?
I can understand the EU, in a negotiating position, calling for detail before progressing. I fail to understand why the anti Brexit sentiments of politicians and UK citizens apes the negotiating stance of the EU. Instead of engaging in any level of positive contribution to ensure Brexit has least adverse impact, the stance taken with pride is (even noticed it in Major's address) "..it's not my problem I voted Remain". I find this extraordinary and only adds to the view that the least favourable outcome is preferred by Remainers to any other. It's a win win for Remainers. The lack of engagement either contributes to Brexit being scuppered or a sub optimal outcome they will have brought to fruition to prove them right.
In response to the problem raised for non flying goods, one could speculate on the use of chips and GPS tracking for any kind of vehicle or form of transportation - sorry it's only an idea so feel free to knock it down on the basis there is no precedent and all the technical challenges have not been set down on a football forum.
@Bournemouth Addick not sure why you thought I was referring to your post or anyone else's in particular.
The black economy will continue whether in or out of the EU regardless of border controls. Technology does however give potential for a blip to appear on the radar for any unregistered business. Again feel free to ridicule any such high level idea on the basis I haven't got a clue how it would work in practice.
You are absolutely right in saying the stance, certainly from me and may be others, is to say 'it's not my problem, I voted remain'. You mention it because you seem to be disappointed about the negative contribution of remainers, and you seem to want suggestions so as to get what you call the 'least adverse impact'. That is a few steps away from brexit being any good. If I read you right you feel frustrated that remainers are not involved in a damage limitation exercise. I dispute your view that how people engage here would scupper brexit, mainly because brexit hasn't been scuppered, brexit won, and isn't it a wrong call to suggest that if it is a dreadful outcome it will be down to the remainers for not being more positive? Isn't it up to the brexiters to show the way? You talk of the least favourable outcome happening, well I for one would say it has already happened simply because brexit won, and I don't see as how anything favourable can be attributed to that victory, or flow from that victory. And again like a broken record I repeat it is not down to the EU to be especially accommodating outside their clear rules and procedures, and it is not down to remainers to heal this mess and division, it is down to brexiters. It really isn't our problem, we voted remain.
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
What tosh. Of course it’s relevent to the Brexit debate. It perfectly illustrates the difficulty that Britain will encounter when standing alone in the big wide world of trade deals. Nobody is going to give us anything by way of a special deal and that obviously includes the man who our Brexit leaders assured us was going to be a shining example of what trade deals are out there.
It is tangentially Brexit related as leavers continually tell us that once we leave the EU we'll be able to get these great trade deals elsewhere. What this move by Trump shows is that one of the biggest markets on earth, where the UK would have been looking to make up with lost trade with the EU, is now hostile to external trade partners and that any hope of a great deal there (if there ever was a genuine chance anyway) is unlikely in the extreme now.
Pfffffft, what do they know? About as reliable as the remainers who insisted that Nigel or Boris would be our next PM after Cameron stood down
Quite a leap to think that Nigel would be PM. First of all he needs to persuade some numbties to elect him in the HoC. Last attempt went very well.
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
What tosh. Of course it’s relevent to the Brexit debate. It perfectly illustrates the difficulty that Britain will encounter when standing alone in the big wide world of trade deals. Nobody is going to give us anything by way of a special deal and that obviously includes the man who our Brexit leaders assured us was going to be a shining example of what trade deals are out there.
It is tangentially Brexit related as leavers continually tell us that once we leave the EU we'll be able to get these great trade deals elsewhere. What this move by Trump shows is that one of the biggest markets on earth, where the UK would have been looking to make up with lost trade with the EU, is now hostile to external trade partners and that any hope of a great deal there (if there ever was a genuine chance anyway) is unlikely in the extreme now.
Pfffffft, what do they know? About as reliable as the remainers who insisted that Nigel or Boris would be our next PM after Cameron stood down
Quite a leap to think that Nigel would be PM. First of all he needs to persuade some numbties to elect him in the HoC. Last attempt went very well.
Oh yeah, was and is never going to happen (Nigel). Was just a small dig at some of the experts (of both sides) on here.
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
What tosh. Of course it’s relevent to the Brexit debate. It perfectly illustrates the difficulty that Britain will encounter when standing alone in the big wide world of trade deals. Nobody is going to give us anything by way of a special deal and that obviously includes the man who our Brexit leaders assured us was going to be a shining example of what trade deals are out there.
It is tangentially Brexit related as leavers continually tell us that once we leave the EU we'll be able to get these great trade deals elsewhere. What this move by Trump shows is that one of the biggest markets on earth, where the UK would have been looking to make up with lost trade with the EU, is now hostile to external trade partners and that any hope of a great deal there (if there ever was a genuine chance anyway) is unlikely in the extreme now.
Pfffffft, what do they know? About as reliable as the remainers who insisted that Nigel or Boris would be our next PM after Cameron stood down
Quite a leap to think that Nigel would be PM. First of all he needs to persuade some numbties to elect him in the HoC. Last attempt went very well.
Oh yeah, was and is never going to happen (Nigel). Was just a small dig at some of the experts (of both sides) on here.
You may think we have reached peak Bojo. Everyone on here probably thinks so, as does at least 60% of the country, I reckon.
But he himself is still utterly, totally convinced that it is his destiny to be PM. Take a good long look at him and what he says and does....
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Would you prefer to be in a club that acts against its members' interests?
No, hence why voted out.
Just to be clear, you're saying you voted to leave a club that works for the benefit of its members' interests, because you don't want to be in a club that works against its members' interests.
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
Donald our new best friend after Brexit has already stuck two fingers up to the UK. 25% import tariff for steel and 10% for aluminium. Unless you’re Canada or Mexico that is.
All very promising on our journey to the sunny uplands.
To the UK, the EU and the rest of the world, thus not making it Brexit related whatsoever as it would be no different if we were staying in the EU?
What tosh. Of course it’s relevent to the Brexit debate. It perfectly illustrates the difficulty that Britain will encounter when standing alone in the big wide world of trade deals. Nobody is going to give us anything by way of a special deal and that obviously includes the man who our Brexit leaders assured us was going to be a shining example of what trade deals are out there.
It is tangentially Brexit related as leavers continually tell us that once we leave the EU we'll be able to get these great trade deals elsewhere. What this move by Trump shows is that one of the biggest markets on earth, where the UK would have been looking to make up with lost trade with the EU, is now hostile to external trade partners and that any hope of a great deal there (if there ever was a genuine chance anyway) is unlikely in the extreme now.
Pfffffft, what do they know? About as reliable as the remainers who insisted that Nigel or Boris would be our next PM after Cameron stood down
Quite a leap to think that Nigel would be PM. First of all he needs to persuade some numbties to elect him in the HoC. Last attempt went very well.
Oh yeah, was and is never going to happen (Nigel). Was just a small dig at some of the experts (of both sides) on here.
You may think we have reached peak Bojo. Everyone on here probably thinks so, as does at least 60% of the country, I reckon.
But he himself is still utterly, totally convinced that it is his destiny to be PM. Take a good long look at him and what he says and does....
Oh yeah, no doubt there Prague. The blokes a moron, praying it doesn’t happen and personally don’t think it will.
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Would you prefer to be in a club that acts against its members' interests?
No, hence why voted out.
Just to be clear, you're saying you voted to leave a club that works for the benefit of its members' interests, because you don't want to be in a club that works against its members' interests.
That strikes me as being somewhat muddled.
Read what my original post said... But take out there's a suprise.
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Would you prefer to be in a club that acts against its members' interests?
No, hence why voted out.
Just to be clear, you're saying you voted to leave a club that works for the benefit of its members' interests, because you don't want to be in a club that works against its members' interests.
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Yes. That's the whole fucking point.
I think this is very telling - many Brexiters just don't see themselves as members and never have - it is a waste of time making the economic arguments when fundamentally it is how they see this country in relation to the rest of the world. If you want sovreignty, it is an idea/concept of independance of a great empire, rather than what it actually means today. You want this country to decide its laws even if they are stupid laws, they are our laws. There is no room for pragmatism, so any argument is futile. You just have to cream off the top, the Brexiters that could have come down either way and persuade them.
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Would you prefer to be in a club that acts against its members' interests?
No, hence why voted out.
Just to be clear, you're saying you voted to leave a club that works for the benefit of its members' interests, because you don't want to be in a club that works against its members' interests.
That strikes me as being somewhat muddled.
Read what my original post said... But take out there's a suprise.
OK. I'm left with: "Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members". Which, to be frank, isn't much less baffling. Because a lot of people agree with this point. There really is not much point leaving a club that acts so clearly in its members' interests.
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Would you prefer to be in a club that acts against its members' interests?
No, hence why voted out.
Just to be clear, you're saying you voted to leave a club that works for the benefit of its members' interests, because you don't want to be in a club that works against its members' interests.
That strikes me as being somewhat muddled.
Read what my original post said... But take out there's a suprise.
OK. I'm left with: "Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members". Which, to be frank, isn't much less baffling. Because a lot of people agree with this point. There really is not much point leaving a club that acts so clearly in its members' interests.
Perhaps it works in your head though.
Your deflecting the real issue of nepotism and breaking their own rules and procedures from Sepp Blatter I mean Mr Juncker....disgusting....
Well there's a suprise.... Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members.
Would you prefer to be in a club that acts against its members' interests?
No, hence why voted out.
Just to be clear, you're saying you voted to leave a club that works for the benefit of its members' interests, because you don't want to be in a club that works against its members' interests.
That strikes me as being somewhat muddled.
Read what my original post said... But take out there's a suprise.
OK. I'm left with: "Cant understand anyone wanting to leave this cosy club. Always act in the benefit of it's members". Which, to be frank, isn't much less baffling. Because a lot of people agree with this point. There really is not much point leaving a club that acts so clearly in its members' interests.
Perhaps it works in your head though.
Your deflecting the real issue of nepotism and breaking their own rules and procedures from Sepp Blatter I mean Mr Juncker....disgusting....
Perhaps that works in your head......Though.
Yeah - best we leave it to these denizens of virtue to have sole power of life and death over us, eh...
Comments
Now, explain to us why you believe and what evidence you have that leads to such disparate groups such as the TUC and the CBI working together as part of the Remain elite conspiracy when they are in every other situation in opposition to each other?
Sorry to lumber you Seth but do you think you could try and help get some answers to the Calais border issue as well.
Even in cases where there is a promotion "competition" in the case of a Civil Service (senior or otherwise), there is a remarkable tendency for the successful candidate to be the individual favoured by management. Of course, I'm probably just bitter and twisted.
And, in partial defence of the EU in this case, they have been remarkably willing to answer the journalists, even if it was like pulling hens' teeth. A genuinely corrupt organization, the UK Civil Service, or most public authorities, would not respond to journalists' queries as quickly, if at all.
Juncker has acted crassly in seeking to promote his protégé before his term comes to an end. He was obvious, and has been caught out. If he'd been smarter, he could have managed an "open and fair promotion competition" and Martin Selmayr could have been the successful candidate, obviously solely on his merits.
Wait, what?
But he himself is still utterly, totally convinced that it is his destiny to be PM. Take a good long look at him and what he says and does....
That strikes me as being somewhat muddled.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/elisa-mosler-vidal/brexodus-uk-may-leave-eu-but-eu-may-already-be-leaving-uk
Perhaps it works in your head though.
Perhaps that works in your head......Though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_parliamentary_expenses_scandal