Chippy posts here, and says he voted leave, and his blanket comments regarding 'the Irish' are not exactly what you might call gracious. Have you missed that stuff? Maybe my antennae is too tuned in on that particular topic.
I have every good reason too as i am part irish. And all of that part that gave me it is all bad.
The trouble I have with that is you use your personal antipathy to tarnish and hate a whole nation or peoples. Now what is that definition of racist?
What you blabbing on about.
I am blabbing on about this comment from Big Bad World:
I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light.
...And I am using you as an example.
When i lived in Scotland i was called a foreigner on many occasions, but as usual celts can hate the English but when it's the other way round they bleet as usual.
You are a very present example of a leave voter being disparaging to foreigners and I have pointed that out to Big Bad World because he was doubtful that people with your attitude exist.
With the greatest respect, do not deliberately misrepresent what I said.
You what? If I have misrepresented you, then you are at liberty to put me right and of course I will acknowledge my fault. My comments have grown from this bit you wrote:
'I must mix in very different circles, and listen in to different conversations than you as I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light. On the contrary, those I know recognise the vital part that those new to our shores play.'
If by misrepresentation you are complaining that I have conflated 'heard' with 'wrote' then I am sorry for that. My overall point is basically that I am surprised you wrote what you wrote, whilst seemingly being blissfully ignorant regarding Chippy and his consistent anti-Irish posts on here.
Me saying that I haven't heard a leave voter express disparaging remarks towards a 'foreigner' in a conversation I've been involved in or overheard is in no way the same as me doubting people that hold such views exist.
Chippy posts here, and says he voted leave, and his blanket comments regarding 'the Irish' are not exactly what you might call gracious. Have you missed that stuff? Maybe my antennae is too tuned in on that particular topic.
I have every good reason too as i am part irish. And all of that part that gave me it is all bad.
The trouble I have with that is you use your personal antipathy to tarnish and hate a whole nation or peoples. Now what is that definition of racist?
What you blabbing on about.
I am blabbing on about this comment from Big Bad World:
I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light.
...And I am using you as an example.
When i lived in Scotland i was called a foreigner on many occasions, but as usual celts can hate the English but when it's the other way round they bleet as usual.
You are a very present example of a leave voter being disparaging to foreigners and I have pointed that out to Big Bad World because he was doubtful that people with your attitude exist.
With the greatest respect, do not deliberately misrepresent what I said.
You what? If I have misrepresented you, then you are at liberty to put me right and of course I will acknowledge my fault. My comments have grown from this bit you wrote:
'I must mix in very different circles, and listen in to different conversations than you as I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light. On the contrary, those I know recognise the vital part that those new to our shores play.'
If by misrepresentation you are complaining that I have conflated 'heard' with 'wrote' then I am sorry for that. My overall point is basically that I am surprised you wrote what you wrote, whilst seemingly being blissfully ignorant regarding Chippy and his consistent anti-Irish posts on here.
Seth, he didn’t say he was doubtful people like that existed - BBW said he hadn’t recognised that behaviour in leave voters he has spoken to on the subject. That may say more about the people he mixes with.
As has often been said, most racists would have voted leave which doesn’t equal most leave voters are racists. Similarly most right wingers would have voted to leave but not all leave voters are right wing.
What am I saying - BBW doesn’t need me to defend himself.
Chippy posts here, and says he voted leave, and his blanket comments regarding 'the Irish' are not exactly what you might call gracious. Have you missed that stuff? Maybe my antennae is too tuned in on that particular topic.
I have every good reason too as i am part irish. And all of that part that gave me it is all bad.
The trouble I have with that is you use your personal antipathy to tarnish and hate a whole nation or peoples. Now what is that definition of racist?
What you blabbing on about.
I am blabbing on about this comment from Big Bad World:
I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light.
...And I am using you as an example.
When i lived in Scotland i was called a foreigner on many occasions, but as usual celts can hate the English but when it's the other way round they bleet as usual.
You are a very present example of a leave voter being disparaging to foreigners and I have pointed that out to Big Bad World because he was doubtful that people with your attitude exist.
With the greatest respect, do not deliberately misrepresent what I said.
You what? If I have misrepresented you, then you are at liberty to put me right and of course I will acknowledge my fault. My comments have grown from this bit you wrote:
'I must mix in very different circles, and listen in to different conversations than you as I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light. On the contrary, those I know recognise the vital part that those new to our shores play.'
If by misrepresentation you are complaining that I have conflated 'heard' with 'wrote' then I am sorry for that. My overall point is basically that I am surprised you wrote what you wrote, whilst seemingly being blissfully ignorant regarding Chippy and his consistent anti-Irish posts on here.
Seth, he didn’t say he was doubtful people like that existed - BBW said he hadn’t recognised that behaviour in leave voters he has spoken to on the subject. That may say more about the people he mixes with.
As has often been said, most racists would have voted leave which doesn’t equal most leave voters are racists. Similarly most right wingers would have voted to leave but not all leave voters are right wing.
What am I saying - BBW doesn’t need me to defend himself.
Chippy posts here, and says he voted leave, and his blanket comments regarding 'the Irish' are not exactly what you might call gracious. Have you missed that stuff? Maybe my antennae is too tuned in on that particular topic.
I have every good reason too as i am part irish. And all of that part that gave me it is all bad.
The trouble I have with that is you use your personal antipathy to tarnish and hate a whole nation or peoples. Now what is that definition of racist?
What you blabbing on about.
I am blabbing on about this comment from Big Bad World:
I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light.
...And I am using you as an example.
When i lived in Scotland i was called a foreigner on many occasions, but as usual celts can hate the English but when it's the other way round they bleet as usual.
You are a very present example of a leave voter being disparaging to foreigners and I have pointed that out to Big Bad World because he was doubtful that people with your attitude exist.
With the greatest respect, do not deliberately misrepresent what I said.
You what? If I have misrepresented you, then you are at liberty to put me right and of course I will acknowledge my fault. My comments have grown from this bit you wrote:
'I must mix in very different circles, and listen in to different conversations than you as I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light. On the contrary, those I know recognise the vital part that those new to our shores play.'
If by misrepresentation you are complaining that I have conflated 'heard' with 'wrote' then I am sorry for that. My overall point is basically that I am surprised you wrote what you wrote, whilst seemingly being blissfully ignorant regarding Chippy and his consistent anti-Irish posts on here.
Seth, he didn’t say he was doubtful people like that existed - BBW said he hadn’t recognised that behaviour in leave voters he has spoken to on the subject. That may say more about the people he mixes with.
As has often been said, most racists would have voted leave which doesn’t equal most leave voters are racists. Similarly most right wingers would have voted to leave but not all leave voters are right wing.
What am I saying - BBW doesn’t need me to defend himself.
''The facts are the Brexit agenda is being predominantly driven by those on the right (and quite clearly far to the right too). Criticism of that agenda can only be linked by association to those pushing it...who by and large happen to be right wingers.
I reserve a special level of contempt for Kate Hoey btw...''
Dennis Skinner and George Galloway also voted Brexit, hardly right wingers mate!
Chippy posts here, and says he voted leave, and his blanket comments regarding 'the Irish' are not exactly what you might call gracious. Have you missed that stuff? Maybe my antennae is too tuned in on that particular topic.
I have every good reason too as i am part irish. And all of that part that gave me it is all bad.
The trouble I have with that is you use your personal antipathy to tarnish and hate a whole nation or peoples. Now what is that definition of racist?
What you blabbing on about.
I am blabbing on about this comment from Big Bad World:
I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light.
...And I am using you as an example.
When i lived in Scotland i was called a foreigner on many occasions, but as usual celts can hate the English but when it's the other way round they bleet as usual.
You are a very present example of a leave voter being disparaging to foreigners and I have pointed that out to Big Bad World because he was doubtful that people with your attitude exist.
With the greatest respect, do not deliberately misrepresent what I said.
You what? If I have misrepresented you, then you are at liberty to put me right and of course I will acknowledge my fault. My comments have grown from this bit you wrote:
'I must mix in very different circles, and listen in to different conversations than you as I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light. On the contrary, those I know recognise the vital part that those new to our shores play.'
If by misrepresentation you are complaining that I have conflated 'heard' with 'wrote' then I am sorry for that. My overall point is basically that I am surprised you wrote what you wrote, whilst seemingly being blissfully ignorant regarding Chippy and his consistent anti-Irish posts on here.
Seth, he didn’t say he was doubtful people like that existed - BBW said he hadn’t recognised that behaviour in leave voters he has spoken to on the subject. That may say more about the people he mixes with.
As has often been said, most racists would have voted leave which doesn’t equal most leave voters are racists. Similarly most right wingers would have voted to leave but not all leave voters are right wing.
What am I saying - BBW doesn’t need me to defend himself.
Sounds like a fair summary - shake hands time.
I haven't got any beef with @seth plum as I recognise his heart is in the right place.
I like to think I'm usually careful enough with my wording so as not to be ambiguous. That sometimes leads to me feeling the need to challenge misrepresentations, no matter how trivial, as they can lead in to weirder territory.
There are reasons why those on the left and those on the right support Brexit and they are completely different reasons. What those on the left have to understand is that Brexit will be owned by those on the right - they don't want it for some socialist Eutopia to be formed - more to profit from deregulation at the worker's expense. and it could end up damaging the people they care about. Hoey is a joke MP and always has been.
Chippy posts here, and says he voted leave, and his blanket comments regarding 'the Irish' are not exactly what you might call gracious. Have you missed that stuff? Maybe my antennae is too tuned in on that particular topic.
I have every good reason too as i am part irish. And all of that part that gave me it is all bad.
The trouble I have with that is you use your personal antipathy to tarnish and hate a whole nation or peoples. Now what is that definition of racist?
What you blabbing on about.
I am blabbing on about this comment from Big Bad World:
I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light.
...And I am using you as an example.
When i lived in Scotland i was called a foreigner on many occasions, but as usual celts can hate the English but when it's the other way round they bleet as usual.
You are a very present example of a leave voter being disparaging to foreigners and I have pointed that out to Big Bad World because he was doubtful that people with your attitude exist.
With the greatest respect, do not deliberately misrepresent what I said.
You what? If I have misrepresented you, then you are at liberty to put me right and of course I will acknowledge my fault. My comments have grown from this bit you wrote:
'I must mix in very different circles, and listen in to different conversations than you as I've not heard one leave voter mention 'foreigners' in a disparaging light. On the contrary, those I know recognise the vital part that those new to our shores play.'
If by misrepresentation you are complaining that I have conflated 'heard' with 'wrote' then I am sorry for that. My overall point is basically that I am surprised you wrote what you wrote, whilst seemingly being blissfully ignorant regarding Chippy and his consistent anti-Irish posts on here.
Seth, he didn’t say he was doubtful people like that existed - BBW said he hadn’t recognised that behaviour in leave voters he has spoken to on the subject. That may say more about the people he mixes with.
As has often been said, most racists would have voted leave which doesn’t equal most leave voters are racists. Similarly most right wingers would have voted to leave but not all leave voters are right wing.
What am I saying - BBW doesn’t need me to defend himself.
Also, @seriously_red , what are your thoughts on Pareto Distribution?
Obviously we need to sign him to replace Kashi...
In all seriousness, nobody is arguing for absolute equality, just less inequality. Nothing to do with a redistribution of wealth but it may interest people to know that Europe has a far smaller disparity of wealth and income than the UK and US.
As for Price - not heard of that but fully familliar with Pareto since I use it all the time in my work. Every client I work with has their pet views about what's wrong and five different people will have five priorities. But it is always 20% of the environment delivering the value and the data. And the technological revolution unfolding may well exacerbate these trends?
Whatever the wealth disparities, since Victorian times we have had charitable works and this evolved into the post war welfare state. Today we have alternatives of universal credit and universal basic income to consider. The fact remains that if a large number of voters have no realistic prospects of breaking out of poverty then that is going to cause social tensions.
We have excessive inequalities and a lack of political solutions. That @Southbank and I agree that these are down to decades of neoliberalism and deregulation (which exacerbates the Gini coefficient) is neither ironic nor a mystery. We are talking of vast numbers of people and vast amounts of money. It so happens that half of my journeys outside the M25 are on airport runs and the other half are to places such as Essex, the Midlands and Newcastle to visit friends and family. Now we wouldn't live out there but millions do and it's a different world.
The 58% who voted leave from those parts of the world voted for a reason - not just lack of wealth but lack of investment and opportunity. Smart people from those areas just get on their bikes - get educated and find decent first jobs. Many of the rest buy into the likes of UKIP and actually believe that the EU is the problem.
What happens after we leave and nothing changes in these people's lives? The solutions are as yet unclear but we all have a chance to witness the Italian election on Sunday. Aside from Burlusconi centre right (28%) and the Progressive Democrats (22%) I have no idea what the rest stand for nor how they will do. Nor have I been to the south of Italy but I hear that it's in really bad shape.
Getting back to the point of the thread, what are your views on Sir John Major's speech? Among other things, he doesn't seem as sanguine as you about the state of the economy...
Also, @seriously_red , what are your thoughts on Pareto Distribution?
Obviously we need to sign him to replace Kashi...
In all seriousness, nobody is arguing for absolute equality, just less inequality. Nothing to do with a redistribution of wealth but it may interest people to know that Europe has a far smaller disparity of wealth and income than the UK and US.
As for Price - not heard of that but fully familliar with Pareto since I use it all the time in my work. Every client I work with has their pet views about what's wrong and five different people will have five priorities. But it is always 20% of the environment delivering the value and the data. And the technological revolution unfolding may well exacerbate these trends?
Whatever the wealth disparities, since Victorian times we have had charitable works and this evolved into the post war welfare state. Today we have alternatives of universal credit and universal basic income to consider. The fact remains that if a large number of voters have no realistic prospects of breaking out of poverty then that is going to cause social tensions.
We have excessive inequalities and a lack of political solutions. That @Southbank and I agree that these are down to decades of neoliberalism and deregulation (which exacerbates the Gini coefficient) is neither ironic nor a mystery. We are talking of vast numbers of people and vast amounts of money. It so happens that half of my journeys outside the M25 are on airport runs and the other half are to places such as Essex, the Midlands and Newcastle to visit friends and family. Now we wouldn't live out there but millions do and it's a different world.
The 58% who voted leave from those parts of the world voted for a reason - not just lack of wealth but lack of investment and opportunity. Smart people from those areas just get on their bikes - get educated and find decent first jobs. Many of the rest buy into the likes of UKIP and actually believe that the EU is the problem.
What happens after we leave and nothing changes in these people's lives? The solutions are as yet unclear but we all have a chance to witness the Italian election on Sunday. Aside from Burlusconi centre right (28%) and the Progressive Democrats (22%) I have no idea what the rest stand for nor how they will do. Nor have I been to the south of Italy but I hear that it's in really bad shape.
So what's the solution to both Pareto and Price's Laws. That to me would go some way to solving the inequality of wealth problem.
''The facts are the Brexit agenda is being predominantly driven by those on the right (and quite clearly far to the right too). Criticism of that agenda can only be linked by association to those pushing it...who by and large happen to be right wingers.
I reserve a special level of contempt for Kate Hoey btw...''
Dennis Skinner and George Galloway also voted Brexit, hardly right wingers mate!
Yeah, I think we've cleared this up already but in case of any doubt I don't see George Galloway or the Beast of Bolsover being in any way influential in how Brexit is developing do you? It's being driven and controlled by the right. In the press and in parliament. Again, for the avoidance of any doubt - that does not mean all Leavers are also rightwingers nor all Remainers are raving lefties.
Ironically, the one thing me and my sister have ever agreed upon politically is Remaining. She's a rampant Tory in every other respect but works in financial services and can see it for the looming disaster it is.
Getting back to the point of the thread, what are your views on Sir John Major's speech? Among other things, he doesn't seem as sanguine as you about the state of the economy...
Let me know if we're still talking about conversations I've had or overheard with leave voters, as opposed to anyone at a Millwall match without knowing which way they voted in the referendum, and I'll give considerable thought to answering your question (you don't get away that easily).
''The facts are the Brexit agenda is being predominantly driven by those on the right (and quite clearly far to the right too). Criticism of that agenda can only be linked by association to those pushing it...who by and large happen to be right wingers.
I reserve a special level of contempt for Kate Hoey btw...''
Dennis Skinner and George Galloway also voted Brexit, hardly right wingers mate!
Yeah, I think we've cleared this up already the but in case of any doubt I don't see George Galloway or the Beast of Holdover being in any way influential in how Brexit is developing do you? It's being driven and controlled by the right. In the press and in parliament.
He wasn't the best Prime Minister but always struck me as honest - apart from cheating on his wife with Edwina Currie! Mind you I thought Liam Fox left parliament in disgrace - Are we supposed to have forgotten and he can be slipped back in without anybody noticing?
Cheating on your partner is one of the most dishonest and quite disgusting things anyone can do. But seeing as its you john, its quite ok.
What's your feelings about Boris in that case then?
What part of anyone do you not understand. Think shooters and me need to save you a seat in our evening class.
...and Nigel? He's a bit of a hero to you isn't he?
Getting back to the point of the thread, what are your views on Sir John Major's speech? Among other things, he doesn't seem as sanguine as you about the state of the economy...
Where have I made any comment, positive or negative, on the state of the economy?
Comments
As has often been said, most racists would have voted leave which doesn’t equal most leave voters are racists. Similarly most right wingers would have voted to leave but not all leave voters are right wing.
What am I saying - BBW doesn’t need me to defend himself.
Sorry, Bob, just putting it out there
show previous quotes
''The facts are the Brexit agenda is being predominantly driven by those on the right (and quite clearly far to the right too). Criticism of that agenda can only be linked by association to those pushing it...who by and large happen to be right wingers.
I reserve a special level of contempt for Kate Hoey btw...''
Dennis Skinner and George Galloway also voted Brexit, hardly right wingers mate!
I like to think I'm usually careful enough with my wording so as not to be ambiguous. That sometimes leads to me feeling the need to challenge misrepresentations, no matter how trivial, as they can lead in to weirder territory.
How’s that for starters?
In all seriousness, nobody is arguing for absolute equality, just less inequality. Nothing to do with a redistribution of wealth but it may interest people to know that Europe has a far smaller disparity of wealth and income than the UK and US.
As for Price - not heard of that but fully familliar with Pareto since I use it all the time in my work. Every client I work with has their pet views about what's wrong and five different people will have five priorities. But it is always 20% of the environment delivering the value and the data. And the technological revolution unfolding may well exacerbate these trends?
Whatever the wealth disparities, since Victorian times we have had charitable works and this evolved into the post war welfare state. Today we have alternatives of universal credit and universal basic income to consider. The fact remains that if a large number of voters have no realistic prospects of breaking out of poverty then that is going to cause social tensions.
We have excessive inequalities and a lack of political solutions. That @Southbank and I agree that these are down to decades of neoliberalism and deregulation (which exacerbates the Gini coefficient) is neither ironic nor a mystery. We are talking of vast numbers of people and vast amounts of money. It so happens that half of my journeys outside the M25 are on airport runs and the other half are to places such as Essex, the Midlands and Newcastle to visit friends and family. Now we wouldn't live out there but millions do and it's a different world.
The 58% who voted leave from those parts of the world voted for a reason - not just lack of wealth but lack of investment and opportunity. Smart people from those areas just get on their bikes - get educated and find decent first jobs. Many of the rest buy into the likes of UKIP and actually believe that the EU is the problem.
What happens after we leave and nothing changes in these people's lives? The solutions are as yet unclear but we all have a chance to witness the Italian election on Sunday. Aside from Burlusconi centre right (28%) and the Progressive Democrats (22%) I have no idea what the rest stand for nor how they will do. Nor have I been to the south of Italy but I hear that it's in really bad shape.
Getting back to the point of the thread, what are your views on Sir John Major's speech? Among other things, he doesn't seem as sanguine as you about the state of the economy...
Ironically, the one thing me and my sister have ever agreed upon politically is Remaining. She's a rampant Tory in every other respect but works in financial services and can see it for the looming disaster it is.
Stop trying to be too clever.
This is brexit ffs - you’re meant to be ripping into one another
I currently have other distractions