They can always add on the 9m cost of the pro EU leaflet that we all paid for a couple of weeks before the referendum and the cost of bringing Obama over here to talk bollocks about being at the "Back of the queue".
Labour Remainers often get accused of betraying their white working class voter base, but only 37% of Labour voters voted Leave whereas 42% of Tory voters voted to Remain, yet Tory Brexiters are never referred to as betraying their voter base (and the analysis of Remain voter make up is that the white split was almost 50/50, and Remainers were made up more of private renters, mortgage holders, small business owners, professionals and managers). Those with the most to lose from Brexit voted Remain whilst those who will virtually see no impact on their personal fortune voted to Leave. Virtually no one will benefit from Brexit, save the handful of barons who have been betting against Britain and hope to make a windfall from the asset stripping that will occur following our eventual exit. The Rolands of the political sphere.
The people who stand to 'benefit' from Brexit, were it to go ahead, are those 17.4 million people who used their right as citizens in a country they live and pay taxes in, to decide the future political direction of the country.
That is a 'benefit' that many millions of people in China and elsewhere can only dream about. Those with the most to lose are the 17.4 million people who, were Brexit not to go ahead, would discover that their vote was worthless, and they may as well have stayed at home on referendum day like those who decided they could not be bothered to vote either way.
We then would all lose because our democracy would be shown to be not worth the ballot paper it was written on. It would increase the alienation from politics that many people already feel and would have long term consequences far worse than whatever short term economic difficulties occur.
Dear @Southbank . In 1992, I voted for Neil Kinnock's Labour. I was convinced that this time enough of my fellow countrymen had had enough of the Tories too. Indeed, in a severe case of premature ejaculation I uncorked a bottle of shampoo while watching the early results from Sunderland North etc. (no exit polls then to speak of). Imagine how i felt next day when i woke up with a hangover to find that John Major was still my effing Prime Minister. Worse was to come. Under that total idiot Norman Lamont, I saw my mortgage rate shoot up 5 % in one day, until the pound crashed out of the ERM. Then they went on to privatise the railways. But I did not bleat about my vote being "wasted". I just accepted that not everyone saw it as I did. Yet. In 1997 they were all finally turfed out, because enough of my fellow citizens had finally had enough. Things change. People's opinions evolve, as they discover more. We are not China, and will not be seeking to change the constitution so that Theresa May can go on and on. There will be another general election. As people's understanding of Brexit also evolves, and if the opinion polls continue to chart a shift in opinion, it would be undemocratic not to ask the electorate if they still want to proceed with Brexit now that the full implications of doing so are clear.
Referenda: the delegating of the most important decisions to the least informed people
Hope you include yourself in that wonderful statement that enlightens us all on this poxy cold day because even though you arrogantly and smugly assume that you know exactly what is going to happen you know the same as everyone else. Fuck All!
That in Cricket would be called a wicket taking delivery...
That in cricket would be called a wide.
One of those really embarassing, big ones...
And it hits an unsuspecting spectator in the face causing him to drop his beer all over his Britain First t shirt because he was too busy looking at his phone trying to press a little smiley face.
I know it's The Guardian, and the link appears to relate to an earlier story (but that could be my phone), but it appears that Theresa May is making noises about rejecting the expected legal wording that the EU Commission is expected to publish tomorrow.
If true, this could prove very "interesting", as the particular references that are believed to be worrying her are precisely those which allowed the EU27 accept that there had been sufficient progress in Phase 1 of the Article 50 negotiations.
In particular, it is the wording that the UK Government agreed in relation to a "no deal" Brexit (i.e. continuing full alignment with the rules of the Single Market and the Customs Union (including future rules) to protect North-South cooperation, the all-Ireland economy and the Good Friday Agreement) that is causing the greatest difficulty.
The problem for the UK Government is that it has agreed that this will be the default position in the absence of a deal and workable border control solutions, in order to move to Phase 2 discussions. If they seek to walk away from this commitment, what is to stop the EU27, in response, from decoding that sufficient progress has not in fact been achieved, and that a return to Phase 1 negotiations is required?
They can always add on the 9m cost of the pro EU leaflet that we all paid for a couple of weeks before the referendum and the cost of bringing Obama over here to talk bollocks about being at the "Back of the queue".
Labour Remainers often get accused of betraying their white working class voter base, but only 37% of Labour voters voted Leave whereas 42% of Tory voters voted to Remain, yet Tory Brexiters are never referred to as betraying their voter base (and the analysis of Remain voter make up is that the white split was almost 50/50, and Remainers were made up more of private renters, mortgage holders, small business owners, professionals and managers). Those with the most to lose from Brexit voted Remain whilst those who will virtually see no impact on their personal fortune voted to Leave. Virtually no one will benefit from Brexit, save the handful of barons who have been betting against Britain and hope to make a windfall from the asset stripping that will occur following our eventual exit. The Rolands of the political sphere.
The people who stand to 'benefit' from Brexit, were it to go ahead, are those 17.4 million people who used their right as citizens in a country they live and pay taxes in, to decide the future political direction of the country.
That is a 'benefit' that many millions of people in China and elsewhere can only dream about. Those with the most to lose are the 17.4 million people who, were Brexit not to go ahead, would discover that their vote was worthless, and they may as well have stayed at home on referendum day like those who decided they could not be bothered to vote either way.
We then would all lose because our democracy would be shown to be not worth the ballot paper it was written on. It would increase the alienation from politics that many people already feel and would have long term consequences far worse than whatever short term economic difficulties occur.
Dear @Southbank . In 1992, I voted for Neil Kinnock's Labour. I was convinced that this time enough of my fellow countrymen had had enough of the Tories too. Indeed, in a severe case of premature ejaculation I uncorked a bottle of shampoo while watching the early results from Sunderland North etc. (no exit polls then to speak of). Imagine how i felt next day when i woke up with a hangover to find that John Major was still my effing Prime Minister. Worse was to come. Under that total idiot Norman Lamont, I saw my mortgage rate shoot up 5 % in one day, until the pound crashed out of the ERM. Then they went on to privatise the railways. But I did not bleat about my vote being "wasted". I just accepted that not everyone saw it as I did. Yet. In 1997 they were all finally turfed out, because enough of my fellow citizens had finally had enough. Things change. People's opinions evolve, as they discover more. We are not China, and will not be seeking to change the constitution so that Theresa May can go on and on. There will be another general election. As people's understanding of Brexit also evolves, and if the opinion polls continue to chart a shift in opinion, it would be undemocratic not to ask the electorate if they still want to proceed with Brexit now that the full implications of doing so are clear.
Referenda: the delegating of the most important decisions to the least informed people
Hope you include yourself in that wonderful statement that enlightens us all on this poxy cold day because even though you arrogantly and smugly assume that you know exactly what is going to happen you know the same as everyone else. Fuck All!
That in Cricket would be called a wicket taking delivery...
That in cricket would be called a wide.
One of those really embarassing, big ones...
And it hits an unsuspecting spectator in the face causing him to drop his beer all over his Britain First t shirt because he was too busy looking at his phone trying to press a little smiley face.
You would be at silly point
That's quite a good one, Chips, to be fair. Hopefully this is the start of a new tactical approach from you. Keep it up
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
We get a lot of much deserved criticism of our "negotiators" here from both Brexiters and Remainers. Just wondered who the Brexiters would like to see in their preferred negotiating team?
They can always add on the 9m cost of the pro EU leaflet that we all paid for a couple of weeks before the referendum and the cost of bringing Obama over here to talk bollocks about being at the "Back of the queue".
Labour Remainers often get accused of betraying their white working class voter base, but only 37% of Labour voters voted Leave whereas 42% of Tory voters voted to Remain, yet Tory Brexiters are never referred to as betraying their voter base (and the analysis of Remain voter make up is that the white split was almost 50/50, and Remainers were made up more of private renters, mortgage holders, small business owners, professionals and managers). Those with the most to lose from Brexit voted Remain whilst those who will virtually see no impact on their personal fortune voted to Leave. Virtually no one will benefit from Brexit, save the handful of barons who have been betting against Britain and hope to make a windfall from the asset stripping that will occur following our eventual exit. The Rolands of the political sphere.
The people who stand to 'benefit' from Brexit, were it to go ahead, are those 17.4 million people who used their right as citizens in a country they live and pay taxes in, to decide the future political direction of the country.
That is a 'benefit' that many millions of people in China and elsewhere can only dream about. Those with the most to lose are the 17.4 million people who, were Brexit not to go ahead, would discover that their vote was worthless, and they may as well have stayed at home on referendum day like those who decided they could not be bothered to vote either way.
We then would all lose because our democracy would be shown to be not worth the ballot paper it was written on. It would increase the alienation from politics that many people already feel and would have long term consequences far worse than whatever short term economic difficulties occur.
Dear @Southbank . In 1992, I voted for Neil Kinnock's Labour. I was convinced that this time enough of my fellow countrymen had had enough of the Tories too. Indeed, in a severe case of premature ejaculation I uncorked a bottle of shampoo while watching the early results from Sunderland North etc. (no exit polls then to speak of). Imagine how i felt next day when i woke up with a hangover to find that John Major was still my effing Prime Minister. Worse was to come. Under that total idiot Norman Lamont, I saw my mortgage rate shoot up 5 % in one day, until the pound crashed out of the ERM. Then they went on to privatise the railways. But I did not bleat about my vote being "wasted". I just accepted that not everyone saw it as I did. Yet. In 1997 they were all finally turfed out, because enough of my fellow citizens had finally had enough. Things change. People's opinions evolve, as they discover more. We are not China, and will not be seeking to change the constitution so that Theresa May can go on and on. There will be another general election. As people's understanding of Brexit also evolves, and if the opinion polls continue to chart a shift in opinion, it would be undemocratic not to ask the electorate if they still want to proceed with Brexit now that the full implications of doing so are clear.
Referenda: the delegating of the most important decisions to the least informed people
Hope you include yourself in that wonderful statement that enlightens us all on this poxy cold day because even though you arrogantly and smugly assume that you know exactly what is going to happen you know the same as everyone else. Fuck All!
That in Cricket would be called a wicket taking delivery...
That in cricket would be called a wide.
One of those really embarassing, big ones...
And it hits an unsuspecting spectator in the face causing him to drop his beer all over his Britain First t shirt because he was too busy looking at his phone trying to press a little smiley face.
You would be at silly point
That's quite a good one, Chips, to be fair. Hopefully this is the start of a new tactical approach from you. Keep it up
Watched Newsnight last night and there was a segment with one of the BBC business editors where she put up the 3 figures for the hit the UK GDP would take under 3 Brexit scenarios. After 15 years the predicted negative impact was 2%, 5% and 15%. These are figures I have seen before. She then presented the estimated positive impact of negotiating free trade deals with a host of countries such as the US, China, Australia and a few others. Total positive impact on GDP after 15 years......0.8%. Can't find a clip at the moment so quoting from memory.
We get a lot of much deserved criticism of our "negotiators" here from both Brexiters and Remainers. Just wondered who the Brexiters would like to see in their preferred negotiating team?
Reading between the lines on that, my interpretation is that Barnier is warning the EU that it's obvious that Davis' role has been downgraded/changed to lobbying individual members rather than dealing with them collectively? Divide and rule and all that is at least a tactic I suppose but what happens if it fails?
I'm more convinced than ever we are looking at a 'No deal' outcome.
Watched Newsnight last night and there was a segment with one of the BBC business editors where she put up the 3 figures for the hit the UK GDP would take under 3 Brexit scenarios. After 15 years the predicted negative impact was 2%, 5% and 15%. These are figures I have seen before. She then presented the estimated positive impact of negotiating free trade deals with a host of countries such as the US, China, Australia and a few others. Total positive impact on GDP after 15 years......0.8%. Can't find a clip at the moment so quoting from memory.
I'm not surprised at the 0.8% figure for the rest of the world, although clearly no way of knowing whether or not it's accurate.
We already trade with the US, China, India, Australia et al - in fact the US is our biggest single country market. Any new trade deals will almost certainly be one way traffic - putting America first will be reflected in any trade deal, and does anyone really expect a deal with China would benefit us more than China? Same goes for India and the other BRIC countries.
We get a lot of much deserved criticism of our "negotiators" here from both Brexiters and Remainers. Just wondered who the Brexiters would like to see in their preferred negotiating team?
Reading between the lines on that, my interpretation is that Barnier is warning the EU that it's obvious that Davis' role has been downgraded/changed to lobbying individual members rather than dealing with them collectively? Divide and rule and all that is at least a tactic I suppose but what happens if it fails?
I'm more convinced than ever we are looking at a 'No deal' outcome.
I think you are right @Bournemouth Addick, unless we get a change of government.
Watched Newsnight last night and there was a segment with one of the BBC business editors where she put up the 3 figures for the hit the UK GDP would take under 3 Brexit scenarios. After 15 years the predicted negative impact was 2%, 5% and 15%. These are figures I have seen before. She then presented the estimated positive impact of negotiating free trade deals with a host of countries such as the US, China, Australia and a few others. Total positive impact on GDP after 15 years......0.8%. Can't find a clip at the moment so quoting from memory.
I'm not surprised at the 0.8% figure for the rest of the world, although clearly no way of knowing whether or not it's accurate.
We already trade with the US, China, India, Australia et al - in fact the US is our biggest single country market. Any new trade deals will almost certainly be one way traffic - putting America first will be reflected in any trade deal, and does anyone really expect a deal with China would benefit us more than China? Same goes for India and the other BRIC countries.
We get a lot of much deserved criticism of our "negotiators" here from both Brexiters and Remainers. Just wondered who the Brexiters would like to see in their preferred negotiating team?
Reading between the lines on that, my interpretation is that Barnier is warning the EU that it's obvious that Davis' role has been downgraded/changed to lobbying individual members rather than dealing with them collectively? Divide and rule and all that is at least a tactic I suppose but what happens if it fails?
I'm more convinced than ever we are looking at a 'No deal' outcome.
I tend to agree. The whole thing is such a clusterfcuk that there is no acceptable in between option. At the end of the day May can shrug her shoulders and say she put Davis, Johnson, Fox and Gove in key negotiating positions and we have ended up with nothing constructive. The 'will of the people' can then prevail and we can all wallow in the shit storm that follows.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
Hello Prague You have probably seen this. From arch Remainer Tony Barber on the crisis of the pro EU centre left across Europe.
So the EU confirms NI can remain in the customs union. Which means that the Conservative and Unionist position (ie that we leave the customs union) means the Union is split. And the Labour position (that the whole of the UK remains in the customs union) means that the UK remains in place, no doubt to the delight of the DUP.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
So we're one of the richest countries on earth but anything other than recession should be acceptable to us? Is 1% going to catch the monkey? 0.5%? 0.1?
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
Don't panic. Don't re run the referendum debate. Brexit voters knew what they were voting for. All brexit voters have the answers to the questions that confuse remainers like me. The answers are a secret (unless maybe you know a funny handshake in one trouser leg).
Labour Remainers often get accused of betraying their white working class voter base, but only 37% of Labour voters voted Leave whereas 42% of Tory voters voted to Remain, yet Tory Brexiters are never referred to as betraying their voter base (and the analysis of Remain voter make up is that the white split was almost 50/50, and Remainers were made up more of private renters, mortgage holders, small business owners, professionals and managers). Those with the most to lose from Brexit voted Remain whilst those who will virtually see no impact on their personal fortune voted to Leave. Virtually no one will benefit from Brexit, save the handful of barons who have been betting against Britain and hope to make a windfall from the asset stripping that will occur following our eventual exit. The Rolands of the political sphere.
The people who stand to 'benefit' from Brexit, were it to go ahead, are those 17.4 million people who used their right as citizens in a country they live and pay taxes in, to decide the future political direction of the country.
That is a 'benefit' that many millions of people in China and elsewhere can only dream about. Those with the most to lose are the 17.4 million people who, were Brexit not to go ahead, would discover that their vote was worthless, and they may as well have stayed at home on referendum day like those who decided they could not be bothered to vote either way.
We then would all lose because our democracy would be shown to be not worth the ballot paper it was written on. It would increase the alienation from politics that many people already feel and would have long term consequences far worse than whatever short term economic difficulties occur.
Dear @Southbank . In 1992, I voted for Neil Kinnock's Labour. I was convinced that this time enough of my fellow countrymen had had enough of the Tories too. Indeed, in a severe case of premature ejaculation I uncorked a bottle of shampoo while watching the early results from Sunderland North etc. (no exit polls then to speak of). Imagine how i felt next day when i woke up with a hangover to find that John Major was still my effing Prime Minister. Worse was to come. Under that total idiot Norman Lamont, I saw my mortgage rate shoot up 5 % in one day, until the pound crashed out of the ERM. Then they went on to privatise the railways. But I did not bleat about my vote being "wasted". I just accepted that not everyone saw it as I did. Yet. In 1997 they were all finally turfed out, because enough of my fellow citizens had finally had enough. Things change. People's opinions evolve, as they discover more. We are not China, and will not be seeking to change the constitution so that Theresa May can go on and on. There will be another general election. As people's understanding of Brexit also evolves, and if the opinion polls continue to chart a shift in opinion, it would be undemocratic not to ask the electorate if they still want to proceed with Brexit now that the full implications of doing so are clear.
Just to ask you directly, if the result of the first referendum is not carried out, why should anybody believe the result of a second referendum would or should be honoured?
The 'full implications' are not clear by the way. The full implications of having the Leave process carried out by people who do not believe in it is what is being revealed.
We might as well say that another referendum should be between the result of May's dreadful negotiation process and leaving properly. But I know that is not what you are proposing.
You make some valid points about respecting the vote and higher up you challenge the decline of the centre left. Each tribe (hard, soft brexit and remoaners) has about 1/3 of the electorate and they live in different parties. But some might disagree with your assertion that it is poor execution which is letting down the implementation.
Whatever people might think of experts, they consistently predict that the three course meal becomes a bag of crisps if we leave everything. So no senior civil servant nor responsible politician will go down that path. Thus we are left with a variation on a Mexican stand off. And it's multi dimensional just to add to the fun!
There was a major piece in the FT about shifts in voting patterns: "By and large the European political establishment in 2017 withstood the assault of insurgent, national, populist parties. But this success disguised a different trend: the continuing collapse [sic] of the centre left."In other words, your point about the reduction in voting % for social democratic parties has been picked up. There is much thinking and discussion to be had around the future of post crash western democracies - nobody can deny that Labour are bucking this trend.
The fact is that your views appear to coincide with those espoused here zwilo.com/peter-mair-predicted-rise-populists-brexit/ Skimming through, much makes sense. Would this be one of your sources? Never heard of the bloke before but his name came up elsewhere on the web. One can critique certain points and then ask why/how Labour is bucking the trend?
Perhaps Labour is growing because it certainly isn't a branch of the EU and it is focussed on bottom up policy development and campaigning as opposed to handing down hard to digest truths from the "global elite". Clearly this view doesn't sit well with Londoners who might view EU membership as the priority. But it goes some way to explaining that the apparent agnosticism (or even ambivalence) is perhaps part of a winning play? For Labour are winning the likes of Kensington, Canterbury and their regional seats.
And the threat of the loss of the Customs Union must concern voters in the Blue parts of the country. Just a view and observation of your perspective plus recent developments.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
So we're one of the richest countries on earth but anything other than recession should be acceptable to us? Is 1% going to catch the monkey? 0.5%? 0.1?
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
Why does an opinion, positive and different to yours have to be right wing?
Are you that far left that any other view is right wing☺.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
So we're one of the richest countries on earth but anything other than recession should be acceptable to us? Is 1% going to catch the monkey? 0.5%? 0.1?
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
You really don't need to claim everything is right wing just to discredit it. There is a common theme that people are following of late. If you disagree with it, or it's news that doesn't fit in with your train of thought, then it must be a right wing 'thing'.
Quick, easy and lazy way of making something taboo.
Also, any sentence that starts with 'So' can automatically be ignored as it is, more often than not, followed by a statement that makes loads of assumptions.
I think the so-called collapse of the centre-left is a bit of an illusion. The issue is that, with the rise of UKIP, La Pen, etc., that the centre ground has shifted right. Therefore, what were once centre-left parties now appear more left-wing, the centre has moved to far to the right for traditional centre-left parties to follow it without moving too far from their base values.
With the failure of La Pen, the decimation of UKIP we might see a shift back to what was the traditional centre, but not fully until Brexit plays out. A hard brexit will embolden the right, at least initially, but if it's the disaster many predict then there will be a snap back to the left in reaction. A soft-brexit, no-brexit result will see a slight drift back from the hard-right.
That's just in this country though, how the result is arrived at rather than the result itself is probably more important on the continent. If the EU is seen as too bullying to get the result it wants that could cause the populist, anti-EU right to strike out, especially if immigration isn't handled better.
Of course immigration is the catalyst for a lot of the populist rise, and many on the continent will be frustrated that Brexit is using up a lot of time and energy that could be directed towards solving the EUs joint problems, rather than pandering to an issue created by a single member.
At PMQ's May says no land border in Ireland, no border in the Irish Sea, and no customs union. Would the brexit voters who knew what they were voting for (I.e. all of them) explain how that all works in practical terms? #funnyhandshakeinonetrouserleg
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
So we're one of the richest countries on earth but anything other than recession should be acceptable to us? Is 1% going to catch the monkey? 0.5%? 0.1?
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
You really don't need to claim everything is right wing just to discredit it. There is a common theme that people are following of late. If you disagree with it, or it's news that doesn't fit in with your train of thought, then it must be a right wing 'thing'.
Quick, easy and lazy way of making something taboo.
Also, any sentence that starts with 'So' can automatically be ignored as it is, more often than not, followed by a statement that makes loads of assumptions.
I am not sure economics is your strong point.
1.7% is not a recession. However if the trend is in the opposite direction to that of a key trading partner, the EU, that is a big flashing red light. More immediately, if that figure is less than what was forecast as the basis for the Chancellor's budget, there are implications for spending on public services.
The UK unemployment figures are regarded with scepticism - and have been for getting on 30 years - because of deregulation of employment laws and various training programmes and whatever that don't work very well, but cause people to disappear from the unemployment register.
The lack of real, secure employment is one of the big beefs of the just about managing and those below, who are also over-represented groups within the Brexit vote. ironically.
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
So we're one of the richest countries on earth but anything other than recession should be acceptable to us? Is 1% going to catch the monkey? 0.5%? 0.1?
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
You really don't need to claim everything is right wing just to discredit it. There is a common theme that people are following of late. If you disagree with it, or it's news that doesn't fit in with your train of thought, then it must be a right wing 'thing'.
Quick, easy and lazy way of making something taboo.
Also, any sentence that starts with 'So' can automatically be ignored as it is, more often than not, followed by a statement that makes loads of assumptions.
I am not sure economics is your strong point.
1.7% is not a recession. However if the trend is in the opposite direction to that of a key trading partner, the EU, that is a big flashing red light. More immediately, if that figure is less than what was forecast as the basis for the Chancellor's budget, there are implications for spending on public services.
The UK unemployment figures are regarded with scepticism - and have been for getting on 30 years - because of deregulation of employment laws and various training programmes and whatever that don't work very well, but cause people to disappear from the unemployment register.
The lack of real, secure employment is one of the big beefs of the just about managing and those below, who are also over-represented groups within the Brexit vote. ironically.
I'm not sure humour, or having a sense of humour, is your strong point.
We all have crosses to bear
Like I say, despite voting to Remain, I am an optimist and will continue to be one. No matter the size of the obstacle.
I've also retained the immovable deep love for my family and friends that voted differently to me. It will take more than politics and my train of thought to drive a wedge between me and my closest family and allies
Good to see the pissing match is continuing...You lot have jobs right?
What's been going on? Skim reading tells me that we're taking cricket back from the world?
My job is recruitment. Unfortunately for me, I do this in a country in the heart of the booming EU, with a national unemployment rate of 3.2%. I've got nobody to interview.
It's only 4.4% over here, in the heart of booming England, with a population of 5-6 times that of where you are.
Yes. However the difference is that we don't have this zero hours fake jobs shit. We don't have unpaid interns. Amazon not only offer people proper contracts, they have had to pay above the going rates, and advertise like hell, just to get the staff they need. And the PM joined with the Prague Mayor to deliver the CEO of Uber a simple message: obey the employment laws or fuck off. AirBnB will be next.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
It's still only 4.4%, right?
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
So we're one of the richest countries on earth but anything other than recession should be acceptable to us? Is 1% going to catch the monkey? 0.5%? 0.1?
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
You really don't need to claim everything is right wing just to discredit it. There is a common theme that people are following of late. If you disagree with it, or it's news that doesn't fit in with your train of thought, then it must be a right wing 'thing'.
Quick, easy and lazy way of making something taboo.
Also, any sentence that starts with 'So' can automatically be ignored as it is, more often than not, followed by a statement that makes loads of assumptions.
I am not sure economics is your strong point.
1.7% is not a recession. However if the trend is in the opposite direction to that of a key trading partner, the EU, that is a big flashing red light. More immediately, if that figure is less than what was forecast as the basis for the Chancellor's budget, there are implications for spending on public services.
The UK unemployment figures are regarded with scepticism - and have been for getting on 30 years - because of deregulation of employment laws and various training programmes and whatever that don't work very well, but cause people to disappear from the unemployment register.
The lack of real, secure employment is one of the big beefs of the just about managing and those below, who are also over-represented groups within the Brexit vote. ironically.
I'm not sure humour, or having a sense of humour, is your strong point.
We all have crosses to bear
Like I say, despite voting to Remain, I am an optimist and will continue to be one. No matter the size of the obstacle.
I've also retained the immovable deep love for my family and friends that voted differently to me. It will take more than politics and my train of thought to drive a wedge between me and my closest family and allies
I have travelled a different journey to you. I was once even able to tolerate and have a laugh with Tories, and still can, but instead of becoming more optimistic and reconciled to brexit my antipathy has deepened and strengthened. I will always try to be tolerant and polite towards brexit voters I meet, or know from my family (which totals zero as far as I know) I find myself feeling totally alienated from brexit voters, even to the extent of preferring remain Tories than brexit Socialists. You are indeed fortunate to feel optimistic, I have tried to get started down that road by asking brexiters to explain the upside of it all, and so far they have not put forward a credible upside. Incidentally, whatever happens to the brexit trope of digging out people for 'talking the country down'? Brexiters have a chance to talk the country up, be optimistic if you like, but if they have anything good to say about it, it has passed me by, however I do continually hear how much some brexiters hate 'foreigners'. Indeed today a brexit supporter said that brexit can't come soon enough to avoid a blended world population. Blended! I have never felt as alienated from those in disguise around me as I do now, and they are the winners.
Comments
If true, this could prove very "interesting", as the particular references that are believed to be worrying her are precisely those which allowed the EU27 accept that there had been sufficient progress in Phase 1 of the Article 50 negotiations.
In particular, it is the wording that the UK Government agreed in relation to a "no deal" Brexit (i.e. continuing full alignment with the rules of the Single Market and the Customs Union (including future rules) to protect North-South cooperation, the all-Ireland economy and the Good Friday Agreement) that is causing the greatest difficulty.
The problem for the UK Government is that it has agreed that this will be the default position in the absence of a deal and workable border control solutions, in order to move to Phase 2 discussions. If they seek to walk away from this commitment, what is to stop the EU27, in response, from decoding that sufficient progress has not in fact been achieved, and that a return to Phase 1 negotiations is required?
https://theguardian.com/politics/2018/feb/27/boris-johnson-likens-post-brexit-irish-border-checks-to-congestion-charge
:-)
I'm more convinced than ever we are looking at a 'No deal' outcome.
We already trade with the US, China, India, Australia et al - in fact the US is our biggest single country market. Any new trade deals will almost certainly be one way traffic - putting America first will be reflected in any trade deal, and does anyone really expect a deal with China would benefit us more than China? Same goes for India and the other BRIC countries.
It's what we do, to coin a phrase, In Europe.
Oh and BTW growth of 1.7% isn't exactly a boom.
I know that our figures are never comparable to any other nation. Ever. Unless it's to show Britain in a poor light.
It's what you do, to coin a phrase
Fortunately my glass is more half full than empty most of the time so I look to take the positives (please refrain from going down the "so, tell me what these positives are that you speak of. I'm genuinely interested to know" route)
Growth is growth. Slowly, slowly catchy monkey and all that.
You have probably seen this. From arch Remainer Tony Barber on the crisis of the pro EU centre left across Europe.
https://www.ft.com/content/6e19773a-1667-11e8-9e9c-25c814761640?accessToken=zwAAAWHcX6RYkc9uGXc6FmcR6NOenCXIFHYWQA.MEUCIC_9y4b24e45rdypva9SFEI2ifHNjtBK8nWUhwL1bqWDAiEA6a_36_Lf9VsaKp56XIiGdIBR-vcz1XkKKHkAlV_27xA&sharetype=gift
Guardian piece
So the EU confirms NI can remain in the customs union. Which means that the Conservative and Unionist position (ie that we leave the customs union) means the Union is split. And the Labour position (that the whole of the UK remains in the customs union) means that the UK remains in place, no doubt to the delight of the DUP.
Strange times.
Just the latest spin from the right wing that everything's going swimmingly whilst in reality even the threat of Brexit has effected growth.
Don't re run the referendum debate.
Brexit voters knew what they were voting for.
All brexit voters have the answers to the questions that confuse remainers like me.
The answers are a secret (unless maybe you know a funny handshake in one trouser leg).
Whatever people might think of experts, they consistently predict that the three course meal becomes a bag of crisps if we leave everything. So no senior civil servant nor responsible politician will go down that path. Thus we are left with a variation on a Mexican stand off. And it's multi dimensional just to add to the fun!
There was a major piece in the FT about shifts in voting patterns: "By and large the European political establishment in 2017 withstood the assault of insurgent, national, populist parties. But this success disguised a different trend: the continuing collapse [sic] of the centre left."In other words, your point about the reduction in voting % for social democratic parties has been picked up. There is much thinking and discussion to be had around the future of post crash western democracies - nobody can deny that Labour are bucking this trend.
The fact is that your views appear to coincide with those espoused here zwilo.com/peter-mair-predicted-rise-populists-brexit/ Skimming through, much makes sense. Would this be one of your sources? Never heard of the bloke before but his name came up elsewhere on the web. One can critique certain points and then ask why/how Labour is bucking the trend?
Perhaps Labour is growing because it certainly isn't a branch of the EU and it is focussed on bottom up policy development and campaigning as opposed to handing down hard to digest truths from the "global elite". Clearly this view doesn't sit well with Londoners who might view EU membership as the priority. But it goes some way to explaining that the apparent agnosticism (or even ambivalence) is perhaps part of a winning play? For Labour are winning the likes of Kensington, Canterbury and their regional seats.
And the threat of the loss of the Customs Union must concern voters in the Blue parts of the country. Just a view and observation of your perspective plus recent developments.
Are you that far left that any other view is right wing☺.
Quick, easy and lazy way of making something taboo.
Also, any sentence that starts with 'So' can automatically be ignored as it is, more often than not, followed by a statement that makes loads of assumptions.
With the failure of La Pen, the decimation of UKIP we might see a shift back to what was the traditional centre, but not fully until Brexit plays out. A hard brexit will embolden the right, at least initially, but if it's the disaster many predict then there will be a snap back to the left in reaction. A soft-brexit, no-brexit result will see a slight drift back from the hard-right.
That's just in this country though, how the result is arrived at rather than the result itself is probably more important on the continent. If the EU is seen as too bullying to get the result it wants that could cause the populist, anti-EU right to strike out, especially if immigration isn't handled better.
Of course immigration is the catalyst for a lot of the populist rise, and many on the continent will be frustrated that Brexit is using up a lot of time and energy that could be directed towards solving the EUs joint problems, rather than pandering to an issue created by a single member.
Would the brexit voters who knew what they were voting for (I.e. all of them) explain how that all works in practical terms?
#funnyhandshakeinonetrouserleg
1.7% is not a recession. However if the trend is in the opposite direction to that of a key trading partner, the EU, that is a big flashing red light. More immediately, if that figure is less than what was forecast as the basis for the Chancellor's budget, there are implications for spending on public services.
The UK unemployment figures are regarded with scepticism - and have been for getting on 30 years - because of deregulation of employment laws and various training programmes and whatever that don't work very well, but cause people to disappear from the unemployment register.
The lack of real, secure employment is one of the big beefs of the just about managing and those below, who are also over-represented groups within the Brexit vote. ironically.
We all have crosses to bear
Like I say, despite voting to Remain, I am an optimist and will continue to be one. No matter the size of the obstacle.
I've also retained the immovable deep love for my family and friends that voted differently to me. It will take more than politics and my train of thought to drive a wedge between me and my closest family and allies
I was once even able to tolerate and have a laugh with Tories, and still can, but instead of becoming more optimistic and reconciled to brexit my antipathy has deepened and strengthened. I will always try to be tolerant and polite towards brexit voters I meet, or know from my family (which totals zero as far as I know) I find myself feeling totally alienated from brexit voters, even to the extent of preferring remain Tories than brexit Socialists.
You are indeed fortunate to feel optimistic, I have tried to get started down that road by asking brexiters to explain the upside of it all, and so far they have not put forward a credible upside.
Incidentally, whatever happens to the brexit trope of digging out people for 'talking the country down'? Brexiters have a chance to talk the country up, be optimistic if you like, but if they have anything good to say about it, it has passed me by, however I do continually hear how much some brexiters hate 'foreigners'. Indeed today a brexit supporter said that brexit can't come soon enough to avoid a blended world population. Blended!
I have never felt as alienated from those in disguise around me as I do now, and they are the winners.