Quite frankly I am stunned by some of the comments about Labour's new policy.
All this hinges on us being in a customs union that will also give us freedom to negotiate with other countries in our own.
Had the government announced this wish, you lot would have been very quick to point out that the EU 27 (holding all the aces) have told us this won't be allowed. So how come it would if we have a communist government?
If course Corbyn knows he won't be in power so once again can claim whatever he wants and is likely to be planning on winning the next general election once Brexit has been finalised. He clearly doesn't want to deal with it before.
Unless I've got it wrong that isn't what he was saying.
He wants a comprehensive Customs Union between the EU and the UK and he wants to work with and have a say in any new deals the EU does with other countries/trading blocks. He was most certainly not saying he wanted carte blanche to do separate trade deals with other countries that just involved the UK. Big difference.
Now, we've got all that now of course.
Laura kuenssberg picked up on it and asked JC what plan b was if the eu didn't agree and he replied to keep going until plan a was agreed. This was shown on the BBC tea time news.
Why not keep going? - Labour supports a longer transition - we have been in the EU long enough, we should take the time we need to get the Brexit we need and be a bit more patient. The only reason a lot of Brexiters have no patience is they fear we may change our minds. But they are willing to jeopardise the strength of the deal over this fear. It is not Corbyn who has been exposed by the events of today, but the weakness of teh government.
While I welcome Corbyn's eventual commitment to a customs union, I hope my fellow Remainers will forgive me if I don't join in the general adulation for his genius move. I will not be forgetting in a hurry that:
1. If he had got out and campaigned for Remain in the referendum, and made some of the points he did in his speech today, we wouldn't be in this dire situation.
2. It has taken 18 months or so for him to finally accept that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, especially the young ones who flocked to Labour in the last election. His speech is a grudging acceptance that they are a lot more progressive and aware of the world than he is. But he still hasn't worked out what to do about those Labour seats with pockets of high Leave votes. It might take balls to deal with that, and i don't think he's got the balls.
If this causes the Tories a problem, good. But I will not willingly vote for or support Labour until he has effed off and been replaced by someone who understands the world as it is in 2018.
Corbyn is a reluctant remainer. That hasn't changed and is the reason he didn't do as you wanted him to. The majority of all voters want a soft Brexit and remaining or leaving is about 50:50 whether you or I like that fact or not! Labour's position seems to be following the current will of the people -how outrageous! W*nkers like Liam Fox say they are for democracy but they really are not!
The important next steps are the strategic meetings the Tory 'mutineers' will be having as a result of this. They won't and don't support Labour of course but this strengthens their position and makes the possibility they may act greater. This was avoidable from a Tory perspective, but the Brexiters within the party have shown zero willingness to chuck remainers any bones and have been lobbying and fighting against their colleagues. This is much more dangerous for the government than many are giving it credit for. A lot of people will start doing the maths now!
For me the only way Brexit can be stopped, is an election which shows a big anti-brexit byas. If you want it stopped, anything that makes it likely, you ought to support.
Quite frankly I am stunned by some of the comments about Labour's new policy.
All this hinges on us being in a customs union that will also give us freedom to negotiate with other countries in our own.
Had the government announced this wish, you lot would have been very quick to point out that the EU 27 (holding all the aces) have told us this won't be allowed. So how come it would if we have a communist government?
If course Corbyn knows he won't be in power so once again can claim whatever he wants and is likely to be planning on winning the next general election once Brexit has been finalised. He clearly doesn't want to deal with it before.
Firstly, the last Labour manifesto was a Social Democratic prospectus. Secondly what JC and the lads have proposed is to retain access to all of the current deals (including Canada and Japan just signed) as well as requesting the right to participate in the negotiation of any new deals between the EU and third countries.
It is Liam Fox who wants the UK to throw all that away and start negotiating brand new deals like a maverick on his own without the backing of an experienced team nor the mass market of 500 million consumers. That's a big cost to achoeve a sub optimum outcome - as well as being completely incoherent and inconsistent with the Irish situation.
Contrary to your assumption that Corbyn won't be in power this might well be the first of a few hurdles which trip up and then bury the government. May and her cabinet do not have a clear policy after nearly 700 days so it's the definition of insanity to expect the same people and same culture to deliver something in 2018.
Quite frankly I am stunned by some of the comments about Labour's new policy.
All this hinges on us being in a customs union that will also give us freedom to negotiate with other countries in our own.
Had the government announced this wish, you lot would have been very quick to point out that the EU 27 (holding all the aces) have told us this won't be allowed. So how come it would if we have a communist government?
If course Corbyn knows he won't be in power so once again can claim whatever he wants and is likely to be planning on winning the next general election once Brexit has been finalised. He clearly doesn't want to deal with it before.
The policy seems designed to avoid a border in Ireland. Beyond that it is poor.
Labour as a party will be tested soon enough in the May local elections. If I were in charge of Labour I would say a vote for us is a vote to halt brexit, if brexit matters so much to 'core' voters, then vote Tory or UKIP. However Labour voters may have other priorities like public services that rank higher than brexit, if so vote Labour rather than the slash and burn Tories. Up to voters, have brexit and Bullenden and Carillion style carry on, or no brexit and some hope for the wider population. I wouldn't gives a damn if the Tories won on that basis, because workers will have industrial action in reserve, the bosses will have Philip Green.
Even if this is political expediency to win power - isn't that Corbyn's job? Personally, it has been pretty clear Labour favoured a softer Brexit all along. They have simply spelled it out to those that couldn't see the obvious!
Corbyn is a reluctant remainer. That hasn't changed and is the reason he didn't do as you wanted him to. The majority of all voters want a soft Brexit and remaining or leaving is about 50:50 whether you or I like that fact or not! Labour's position seems to be following the current will of the people -how outrageous! W*nkers like Liam Fox say they are for democracy but they really are not!
The important next steps are the strategic meetings the Tory 'mutineers' will be having as a result of this. They won't and don't support Labour of course but this strengthens their position and makes the possibility they may act greater. This was avoidable from a Tory perspective, but the Brexiters within the party have shown zero willingness to chuck remainers any bones and have been lobbying and fighting against their colleagues. This is much more dangerous for the government than many are giving it credit for. A lot of people will start doing the maths now!
For me the only way Brexit can be stopped, is an election which shows a big anti-brexit byas. If you want it stopped, anything that makes it likely, you ought to support.
Personally, I don't see much difference between the government's stated aim and Labour's. They both want a free trade agreement with the eu, with the ability to negotiate free trade deals unilaterally if the eu doesn't have one.
As for stopping Brexit, how will that happen when we are still 50/50 split and you are hoping for a 'big anti-brexit' vote?
While I welcome Corbyn's eventual commitment to a customs union, I hope my fellow Remainers will forgive me if I don't join in the general adulation for his genius move. I will not be forgetting in a hurry that:
1. If he had got out and campaigned for Remain in the referendum, and made some of the points he did in his speech today, we wouldn't be in this dire situation.
2. It has taken 18 months or so for him to finally accept that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, especially the young ones who flocked to Labour in the last election. His speech is a grudging acceptance that they are a lot more progressive and aware of the world than he is. But he still hasn't worked out what to do about those Labour seats with pockets of high Leave votes. It might take balls to deal with that, and i don't think he's got the balls.
If this causes the Tories a problem, good. But I will not willingly vote for or support Labour until he has effed off and been replaced by someone who understands the world as it is in 2018.
I think he has worked out what to do with Labour Leavers- abandon them to UKIP and the right wing of the Tory Party. Labour has become a Party led by middle class Remainers, with a membership of middle class Remainers apoealing to middle class Remainers.
While I welcome Corbyn's eventual commitment to a customs union, I hope my fellow Remainers will forgive me if I don't join in the general adulation for his genius move. I will not be forgetting in a hurry that:
1. If he had got out and campaigned for Remain in the referendum, and made some of the points he did in his speech today, we wouldn't be in this dire situation.
2. It has taken 18 months or so for him to finally accept that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, especially the young ones who flocked to Labour in the last election. His speech is a grudging acceptance that they are a lot more progressive and aware of the world than he is. But he still hasn't worked out what to do about those Labour seats with pockets of high Leave votes. It might take balls to deal with that, and i don't think he's got the balls.
If this causes the Tories a problem, good. But I will not willingly vote for or support Labour until he has effed off and been replaced by someone who understands the world as it is in 2018.
This is Keir Starmer's work and I think we should be comforted by the fact that he is now being allowed to get on with the task of rescuing something from this clusterfcuk.
Corbyn is a reluctant remainer. That hasn't changed and is the reason he didn't do as you wanted him to. The majority of all voters want a soft Brexit and remaining or leaving is about 50:50 whether you or I like that fact or not! Labour's position seems to be following the current will of the people -how outrageous! W*nkers like Liam Fox say they are for democracy but they really are not!
The important next steps are the strategic meetings the Tory 'mutineers' will be having as a result of this. They won't and don't support Labour of course but this strengthens their position and makes the possibility they may act greater. This was avoidable from a Tory perspective, but the Brexiters within the party have shown zero willingness to chuck remainers any bones and have been lobbying and fighting against their colleagues. This is much more dangerous for the government than many are giving it credit for. A lot of people will start doing the maths now!
For me the only way Brexit can be stopped, is an election which shows a big anti-brexit byas. If you want it stopped, anything that makes it likely, you ought to support.
Personally, I don't see much difference between the government's stated aim and Labour's. They both want a free trade agreement with the eu, with the ability to negotiate free trade deals unilaterally if the eu doesn't have one.
As for stopping Brexit, how will that happen when we are still 50/50 split and you are hoping for a 'big anti-brexit' vote?
I didn't say I was hoping for it personally - but if you don't think Brexit will not be a major issue in the election campaign you may need your bumps felt. During a campaign you have the opportunity to persuade - like Corbyn raised his vote during the last election. This presents an opportunity to remain supporting politicians of all colours.
While I welcome Corbyn's eventual commitment to a customs union, I hope my fellow Remainers will forgive me if I don't join in the general adulation for his genius move. I will not be forgetting in a hurry that:
1. If he had got out and campaigned for Remain in the referendum, and made some of the points he did in his speech today, we wouldn't be in this dire situation.
2. It has taken 18 months or so for him to finally accept that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, especially the young ones who flocked to Labour in the last election. His speech is a grudging acceptance that they are a lot more progressive and aware of the world than he is. But he still hasn't worked out what to do about those Labour seats with pockets of high Leave votes. It might take balls to deal with that, and i don't think he's got the balls.
If this causes the Tories a problem, good. But I will not willingly vote for or support Labour until he has effed off and been replaced by someone who understands the world as it is in 2018.
I think he has worked out what to do with Labour Leavers- abandon them to UKIP and the right wing of the Tory Party. Labour has become a Party led by middle class Remainers, with a membership of middle class Remainers apoealing to middle class Remainers.
I think it maybe as much that Labour brexitiers have nowhere to go with their vote now ukip has collapsed.
Ukip was never a proper party but was very influential under the farage leadership.
While I welcome Corbyn's eventual commitment to a customs union, I hope my fellow Remainers will forgive me if I don't join in the general adulation for his genius move. I will not be forgetting in a hurry that:
1. If he had got out and campaigned for Remain in the referendum, and made some of the points he did in his speech today, we wouldn't be in this dire situation.
2. It has taken 18 months or so for him to finally accept that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, especially the young ones who flocked to Labour in the last election. His speech is a grudging acceptance that they are a lot more progressive and aware of the world than he is. But he still hasn't worked out what to do about those Labour seats with pockets of high Leave votes. It might take balls to deal with that, and i don't think he's got the balls.
If this causes the Tories a problem, good. But I will not willingly vote for or support Labour until he has effed off and been replaced by someone who understands the world as it is in 2018.
I think he has worked out what to do with Labour Leavers- abandon them to UKIP and the right wing of the Tory Party. Labour has become a Party led by middle class Remainers, with a membership of middle class Remainers apoealing to middle class Remainers.
On this you could have a point. Then again even for the middle class decent public services may be a higher priority than brexit issues. To me the best policy on brexit for Labour is a never ending relentless attack on those apparently implementing it, whilst not denying the referendum result.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MPs that save it. It should be close either way!
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
6 is quite a lot in this context.
Think they'll be more Tories back the amendment
I hope so - it will be the first domino that needs pushing to bring this government down and save the country from the disaster they are steering us towards.
As a bit of a Corbyn supporter I don't agree with the sentiment, but I am minded of what Heseltine said on the subject. Any mess a Labour goverment makes of things we can fix in the next parliament - it is what has been happening for years. But the mess of leaving the EU can't be fixed. The next question is how many Tories take that view. I have been told there are quite a few, but the government will be doing all they can to keep the weaker ones onside. Interesting days, but the game has started.
I still think that the majority of the Tory rebels will cave in and support the government. Certainly enough of them to get May accross the line. I think the more prominent ones like Soubry, Clarke, Grieve and Morgan might stick it out but many of the others will give in to the threats. Add to that Hoey and Field and both the government and Brexit will stumble on as before.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MPs that save it. It should be close either way!
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
6 is quite a lot in this context.
Think they'll be more Tories back the amendment
I hope so - it will be the first domino that needs pushing to bring this government down and save the country from the disaster they are steering us towards.
As a bit of a Corbyn supporter I don't agree with the sentiment, but I am minded of what Heseltine said on the subject. Any mess a Labour goverment makes of things we can fix in the next parliament - it is what has been happening for years. But the mess of leaving the EU can't be fixed. The next question is how many Tories take that view. I have been told there are quite a few, but the government will be doing all they can to keep the weaker ones onside. Interesting days, but the game has started.
I still think that the majority of the Tory rebels will cave in and support the government. Certainly enough of them to get May accross the line. I think the more prominent ones like Soubry, Clarke, Grieve and Morgan might stick it out but many of the others will give in to the threats. Add to that Hoey and Field and both the government and Brexit will stumble on as before.
This is such a monumental time in UK politics, especially with regard to the GFA and the Irish border, I wonder if Sinn Fein might take up their 6 seats with the sole intention of bringing down the Tory-DUP government. I am sure a lot of their voters would support such a move if it is seen as a way of protecting the GFA.
Also talk of a total betrayal of those on the lowest incomes coming from the guy who ran on a manifesto of raising the taxes on the lowest paid by 11%.
Thanks for posting this. I'd be interested in a regional breakdown as well (not so interested as to actually look for one). I suspect that in metropolitan areas which are sewn up for labour, such as London, the remain vote will be very high. The problem is the old labour industrial heartlands which are more likely to be leave. There's a worry that people there might stop voting labour. I wonder what the effect will be in Scotland, which was mainly remain, but abandoned labour two elections ago?
I know Labour has a strategy to win over supporters up north. A big one is the fact that they are still advocating Brexit - a second is the lies about the NHS etc... and the lack of improvements in people's lives and a third thing is to offer them the chance to make a protest statement in a different way, using the popularist angle with Corbyn. It is crazy that Brexiters are banking the votes of these people!
One of the problems with the referendum was them being told how much they benefited from the EU when they didn't feel it! There is a perception up north that the EU is only for the benefit of London. But if anybody thinks the current Labour party is not a thousand times slicker than they used to be and indeed what the Tories currently are - well they haven't been paying attention - whatever their political leaning is.
BTW, the SNP will have an important part to play in us staying in the EU if there is an election. A remainer will not want Labour to win outright but to form a minority government - something they were very close to doing after the last election. This is the other big mistake people may make - Labour doesn't have to win the next election, just win a few more seats to scupper the Tory hard Brexit! Then manifestos can change a bit!
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MPs that save it. It should be close either way!
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
6 is quite a lot in this context.
Think they'll be more Tories back the amendment
I hope so - it will be the first domino that needs pushing to bring this government down and save the country from the disaster they are steering us towards.
As a bit of a Corbyn supporter I don't agree with the sentiment, but I am minded of what Heseltine said on the subject. Any mess a Labour goverment makes of things we can fix in the next parliament - it is what has been happening for years. But the mess of leaving the EU can't be fixed. The next question is how many Tories take that view. I have been told there are quite a few, but the government will be doing all they can to keep the weaker ones onside. Interesting days, but the game has started.
I still think that the majority of the Tory rebels will cave in and support the government. Certainly enough of them to get May accross the line. I think the more prominent ones like Soubry, Clarke, Grieve and Morgan might stick it out but many of the others will give in to the threats. Add to that Hoey and Field and both the government and Brexit will stumble on as before.
This is such a monumental time in UK politics, especially with regard to the GFA and the Irish border, I wonder if Sinn Fein might take up their 6 seats with the sole intention of bringing down the Tory-DUP government. I am sure a lot of their voters would support such a move if it is seen as a way of protecting the GFA.
It’s an interesting point but I just don’t see it happening.
In any case Corbyn is still committed to taking us out of the EU and I don’t believe for a moment that he can deliver his version of “a customs union”. Until labour change their stance to being a remain party which won’t happen we are still heading for the rocks just with a different captain on the bridge.
No party would want to win a vote thanks to Sinn Fein. It would do a lot of damage. But they deny what they stand for if they take their seats in the commons so it wont happen anyway.
If by "True Brexit" he means the UK adopting unilateral tariff-free status, abandoning any concerns about use of pesticides and other chemicals, animal/worker welfare and inconvenient things like standards, then, yes, it probably is true that there would be cheaper food and clothes. There would be almost no UK agricultural economy left because only the very richest (and often industrialised) or the hobby/niche farmers would survive (because, unlike large parts of New Zealand or the, rapidly clearing, Amazon, the UK climate will not readily support their styles of production), and what would be left would be forced to emulate the standards of the cheaper imports in order to survive.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MPs that save it. It should be close either way!
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
What Corbyn has done here is what I have been predicting. He has thrown a bone to the arch Tory remainers or 'mutineers'. This has significantly strengthened their position and they will be looking for deals that the government will find hard to give.
Labour's problem is the Brexit supporting MPs within its own camp. I think this is a dangerous time for the government and it could be Labour MP that saves it. It should be close either way!
There's only 6 max, and Hoey and Field are probably the most committed to the cause, the others will see it as an opportunity to seriously weaken May even further, and maybe collapse the government.
6 is quite a lot in this context.
Think they'll be more Tories back the amendment
I hope so - it will be the first domino that needs pushing to bring this government down and save the country from the disaster they are steering us towards.
As a bit of a Corbyn supporter I don't agree with the sentiment, but I am minded of what Heseltine said on the subject. Any mess a Labour goverment makes of things we can fix in the next parliament - it is what has been happening for years. But the mess of leaving the EU can't be fixed. The next question is how many Tories take that view. I have been told there are quite a few, but the government will be doing all they can to keep the weaker ones onside. Interesting days, but the game has started.
I still think that the majority of the Tory rebels will cave in and support the government. Certainly enough of them to get May accross the line. I think the more prominent ones like Soubry, Clarke, Grieve and Morgan might stick it out but many of the others will give in to the threats. Add to that Hoey and Field and both the government and Brexit will stumble on as before.
This is such a monumental time in UK politics, especially with regard to the GFA and the Irish border, I wonder if Sinn Fein might take up their 6 seats with the sole intention of bringing down the Tory-DUP government. I am sure a lot of their voters would support such a move if it is seen as a way of protecting the GFA.
It’s an interesting point but I just don’t see it happening.
In any case Corbyn is still committed to taking us out of the EU and I don’t believe for a moment that he can deliver his version of “a customs union”. Until labour change their stance to being a remain party which won’t happen we are still heading for the rocks just with a different captain on the bridge.
As stated by Leave campaigners Norway and Switzerland do alright. So why not simply join the EEA. That is one likely destination for this process.
Once again, fighting a second referendum before March 2019 without a mandate is unlikely and ignoring the 2016 vote might well be incendiary.
There is more to the political economy of the UK than Brexit.
I know Labour has a strategy to win over supporters up north. A big one is the fact that they are still advocating Brexit - a second is the lies about the NHS etc... and the lack of improvements in people's lives and a third thing is to offer them the chance to make a protest statement in a different way, using the popularist angle with Corbyn. It is crazy that Brexiters are banking the votes of these people!
One of the problems with the referendum was them being told how much they benefited from the EU when they didn't feel it! There is a perception up north that the EU is only for the benefit of London. But if anybody thinks the current Labour party is not a thousand times slicker than they used to be and indeed what the Tories currently are - well they haven't been paying attention - whatever their political leaning is.
BTW, the SNP will have an important part to play in us staying in the EU if there is an election. A remainer will not want Labour to win outright but to form a minority government - something they were very close to doing after the last election. This is the other big mistake people may make - Labour doesn't have to win the next election, just win a few more seats to scupper the Tory hard Brexit! Then manifestos can change a bit!
I'm not sure either Labour (or the Tories) would do a deal with the SNP, but we live in strange times.
Corbyn is very likely to say vote with us or not - no deals. But if there is a strong anti Brexit result from the election the SNP could be helpful for the remain position. I think there would have to be a strong anti Brexit vote though. The position that we need to see what the public want once and for all could be attractive in those circumstances.
Comments
1. If he had got out and campaigned for Remain in the referendum, and made some of the points he did in his speech today, we wouldn't be in this dire situation.
2. It has taken 18 months or so for him to finally accept that the majority of Labour voters wanted to remain, especially the young ones who flocked to Labour in the last election. His speech is a grudging acceptance that they are a lot more progressive and aware of the world than he is. But he still hasn't worked out what to do about those Labour seats with pockets of high Leave votes. It might take balls to deal with that, and i don't think he's got the balls.
If this causes the Tories a problem, good. But I will not willingly vote for or support Labour until he has effed off and been replaced by someone who understands the world as it is in 2018.
The important next steps are the strategic meetings the Tory 'mutineers' will be having as a result of this. They won't and don't support Labour of course but this strengthens their position and makes the possibility they may act greater. This was avoidable from a Tory perspective, but the Brexiters within the party have shown zero willingness to chuck remainers any bones and have been lobbying and fighting against their colleagues. This is much more dangerous for the government than many are giving it credit for. A lot of people will start doing the maths now!
For me the only way Brexit can be stopped, is an election which shows a big anti-brexit byas. If you want it stopped, anything that makes it likely, you ought to support.
It is Liam Fox who wants the UK to throw all that away and start negotiating brand new deals like a maverick on his own without the backing of an experienced team nor the mass market of 500 million consumers. That's a big cost to achoeve a sub optimum outcome - as well as being completely incoherent and inconsistent with the Irish situation.
Contrary to your assumption that Corbyn won't be in power this might well be the first of a few hurdles which trip up and then bury the government. May and her cabinet do not have a clear policy after nearly 700 days so it's the definition of insanity to expect the same people and same culture to deliver something in 2018.
Labour as a party will be tested soon enough in the May local elections. If I were in charge of Labour I would say a vote for us is a vote to halt brexit, if brexit matters so much to 'core' voters, then vote Tory or UKIP. However Labour voters may have other priorities like public services that rank higher than brexit, if so vote Labour rather than the slash and burn Tories.
Up to voters, have brexit and Bullenden and Carillion style carry on, or no brexit and some hope for the wider population.
I wouldn't gives a damn if the Tories won on that basis, because workers will have industrial action in reserve, the bosses will have Philip Green.
As for stopping Brexit, how will that happen when we are still 50/50 split and you are hoping for a 'big anti-brexit' vote?
(
Ukip was never a proper party but was very influential under the farage leadership.
To me the best policy on brexit for Labour is a never ending relentless attack on those apparently implementing it, whilst not denying the referendum result.
One of the problems with the referendum was them being told how much they benefited from the EU when they didn't feel it! There is a perception up north that the EU is only for the benefit of London. But if anybody thinks the current Labour party is not a thousand times slicker than they used to be and indeed what the Tories currently are - well they haven't been paying attention - whatever their political leaning is.
BTW, the SNP will have an important part to play in us staying in the EU if there is an election. A remainer will not want Labour to win outright but to form a minority government - something they were very close to doing after the last election. This is the other big mistake people may make - Labour doesn't have to win the next election, just win a few more seats to scupper the Tory hard Brexit! Then manifestos can change a bit!
In any case Corbyn is still committed to taking us out of the EU and I don’t believe for a moment that he can deliver his version of “a customs union”. Until labour change their stance to being a remain party which won’t happen we are still heading for the rocks just with a different captain on the bridge.
Once again, fighting a second referendum before March 2019 without a mandate is unlikely and ignoring the 2016 vote might well be incendiary.
There is more to the political economy of the UK than Brexit.