Not really. If Labour decided they can't meet their election promises/aims/desires a year after an election, they don't say "after further thoughts, we can't deliver on those things we promised, so we'll overrule the vote and pass the baton to the Tory's for the next 4 years".
Of course, I get that the referendum was a one off and you can't revert back after five years, but it has to be seen through. The politicians owe it to the public, otherwise it's a complete kick in the gonads for democracy, even if it was wrongly provided to us in some peoples opinions.
I was always of the opinion that this is a change for future generations, possibly long after our lifetimes. I don't expect to see major improvements in 5/10/15 years etc., in fact things may well get worse, but history (or peoples interpretation of it) will view the success or not of the decision, probably long after all our time.
Is it even possible to agree how 'success' is measured?
In a slightly unrelated noted, the head of the NRA has broken cover a week after the Florida school shooting to condemn those who want better gun controls to prevent future tragedies as "elites" who "hate freedom".
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth.
That's why I would be happy to play my part in negotiations.
I don't actually believe that the scenario you describe is what anybody actually wants but we might end up with some of that if May can't get her act together.
This issue is too important for our politicians to play silly games. Of course, we are unlikely to agree on which ones are playing the silliest games.
anyway, all will be sorted today at chequers and we'll be able to close the thread and get back to slagging off the sacred cow airman brown on the takeover thread. I look forward to what May and the rest of the enlightened are going to come up with
It's over 600 days since the referendum and just over a year until we leave, so it might be quite helpful if the Cabinet can agree a position!
Whatever they agree will not have majority support in Parliament nor with the electorate. It will be open to criticism, ridicule and expert analysis of the impact.
And that's when campaigns and Labour will finally have a target to aim at. Or perhaps they wait until the EU27 have dissected any proposition and replied with what is actually on the table? Those who want Labour to hurry up lack finesse and fail to see the bigger picture. For time is ticking and the Conservative party has has a fault line for decades which may well divide the party for good.
The options are still either Canada or a Brexit in name only with no end date on a transition period. That is until an FTA is agreed. In other words a Norway plus CU option.
And the interesting part is that this will take us over to the next General election. So in the end the electorate will have control after all. This since they determine the shape of the next Parliament.
And thus one might expect the Government to kick the can down the road rather than opting for the Canada style relationship which reduces GDP growth drastically as well as undermining the peace process in Northern Ireland.
It is and always has been an impossible wicket for May to play. Soon we will see how she actually plays it. The time for rhetoric is nearly over.
I have said on many occasions that these are not the only choices - more will emerge during the negotiations.
"At a joint news conference in Berlin, Merkel encouraged May to aim for something in between. Asked by a U.K. reporter if she could accept anything that is “bespoke,” the German leader came to May’s defense: "It’s not necessarily the case that a situation that is neither already known nor a classic free trade deal, that this situation is cherry-picking." "In the end, there has to be a fair balance, of variations, on the single market, for example," she said. “We as the 27 will ensure that it’s as close as possible, but that there’s a difference from current membership."
"However, she appeared to offer an olive branch by suggesting that the U.K.’s hopes of a bespoke deal may be achievable. Asked about bespoke arrangements — as opposed to the starker options of single market membership or a Canada-style trade deal — she said it was “not a given” that such an arrangement “means cherry-picking.” “In the end the outcome needs to be a fair balance that deviates from the single market and is not as close a partnership as we’ve had, but I think one can find that,” she said, according to the official translation of her remarks."
Thank you for your considered response. As stated elsewhere in my post "perhaps Labour and campaigns will wait until the EU27 dissect any proposition and spell out what is really on the table."
Some have stated that the UK will simply not secure passporting for financial services without being members of the single market.
Time will tell but what we have seen over the last 600 days is inertia and rhetoric. And talk of "a" customs union not "the" customs union. And for technical reasons that simply won't happen.
My money is on more stalling - as per comments six months ago May is still in Zugzuang where it will be better not to move and let somebody else make a play. Trouble for her is that everybody else is asking her to make a move... including Rees Mogg and his ERG.
Your optimism is admirable but not sure the politics will work like that?
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth.
That's why I would be happy to play my part in negotiations.
I don't actually believe that the scenario you describe is what anybody actually wants but we might end up with some of that if May can't get her act together.
This issue is too important for our politicians to play silly games. Of course, we are unlikely to agree on which ones are playing the silliest games.
My new bit:
I think between us we're getting our quoting a bit mixed up, but never mind. Do you really mean that, if you had a seat at the negotiating table you would take up the cudgels on my behalf? If you do, perhaps you could explain how there could be a border as open as going from Wandsworth to Lambeth on the island of Ireland, yet for the UK to be outside a customs union whilst taking in to account the constraints of the international treaty the UK signed commonly known as the Good Friday Agreement? You lose a titchy bit of credibility if you say that you would put a rope around Wandsworth and tow it out to the mid Atlantic!
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
In 5 years time there will be a lot of Brexit voters lying in their care home beds covered in their own shit as a direct result of their vote to leave the EU but they won't mind because in their grubby filthy hands they will be clasping a blue passport!
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Is this one of your very rich company owning colleagues, German colleagues, academic colleagues or just a workmate sticking a rivet through a sheet of galvanised steel ?
I suggest before you start lecturing anyone on their being dense you pay some attention to the spelling and grammatical structure of your posts. It really would help the rest of us understand what you are trying to say.
I might add that if I and others don’t understand what you are saying then that’s your fault not ours. Berating us for not being able to pick our way through your gibberish is really rather muggy.
Also you mean others on your side....That goes two ways...I will leave to work out that gibberish.
You’re doing this on purpose now aren’t you. Are you completely unable to post anything at all that anyone other than your work colleagues can understand.
I would actually like to know what you think but there’s no way of finding out by reading your illiterate outpourings.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
You are really letting your prejudices get in the way here my friend, the BBC story says there was a net INCREASE of 90,000 EU citizens in the UK in this period, not a decrease.
The headline is classic , misleading BBC anti- Brexit spin.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
Sorry Madrid but there are not "fewer foreign people". There are 90000 net more Eu migrants and substantially more 205000 non European migrants offset by uk nationals emigrating. I think the BBC headline is quite misleading. I think the overal net increase is over 240,000 in the year to sept 2017.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
You are really letting your prejudices get in the way here my friend, the BBC story says there was a net INCREASE of 90,000 EU citizens in the UK in this period, not a decrease.
The headline is classic , misleading BBC anti- Brexit spin.
Great minds and all that. You pipped me to the response with an almost identical post.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
You are really letting your prejudices get in the way here my friend, the BBC story says there was a net INCREASE of 90,000 EU citizens in the UK in this period, not a decrease.
The headline is classic , misleading BBC anti- Brexit spin.
Great minds and all that. You pipped me to the response with an almost identical post.
Yes, but wait for somebody to tell us the BBC is pro-Brexit
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
In 5 years time there will be a lot of Brexit voters lying in their care home beds covered in their own shit as a direct result of their vote to leave the EU but they won't mind because in their grubby filthy hands they will be clasping a blue passport!
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
In 5 years time there will be a lot of Brexit voters lying in their care home beds covered in their own shit as a direct result of their vote to leave the EU but they won't mind because in their grubby filthy hands they will be clasping a blue passport!
So you did not actually read the BBC story either then. Your fellow BBC Remainers triggered you good.
I said the figures were interesting then passed on some personal experiences from friends and former colleagues of mine who are either thinking or leaving of who have left. I think it is a great shame for the UK when and if they do.
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth.
That's why I would be happy to play my part in negotiations.
I don't actually believe that the scenario you describe is what anybody actually wants but we might end up with some of that if May can't get her act together.
This issue is too important for our politicians to play silly games. Of course, we are unlikely to agree on which ones are playing the silliest games.
My new bit:
I think between us we're getting our quoting a bit mixed up, but never mind. Do you really mean that, if you had a seat at the negotiating table you would take up the cudgels on my behalf? If you do, perhaps you could explain how there could be a border as open as going from Wandsworth to Lambeth on the island of Ireland, yet for the UK to be outside a customs union whilst taking in to account the constraints of the international treaty the UK signed commonly known as the Good Friday Agreement? You lose a titchy bit of credibility if you say that you would put a rope around Wandsworth and tow it out to the mid Atlantic!
Sorry Seth i wont reveal my master plan in advance of sitting down but I will reveal the objectives to the EU as soon as we sit down. Unlike Mrs May.
anyway, all will be sorted today at chequers and we'll be able to close the thread and get back to slagging off the sacred cow airman brown on the takeover thread. I look forward to what May and the rest of the enlightened are going to come up with
It's over 600 days since the referendum and just over a year until we leave, so it might be quite helpful if the Cabinet can agree a position!
Whatever they agree will not have majority support in Parliament nor with the electorate. It will be open to criticism, ridicule and expert analysis of the impact.
And that's when campaigns and Labour will finally have a target to aim at. Or perhaps they wait until the EU27 have dissected any proposition and replied with what is actually on the table? Those who want Labour to hurry up lack finesse and fail to see the bigger picture. For time is ticking and the Conservative party has has a fault line for decades which may well divide the party for good.
The options are still either Canada or a Brexit in name only with no end date on a transition period. That is until an FTA is agreed. In other words a Norway plus CU option.
And the interesting part is that this will take us over to the next General election. So in the end the electorate will have control after all. This since they determine the shape of the next Parliament.
And thus one might expect the Government to kick the can down the road rather than opting for the Canada style relationship which reduces GDP growth drastically as well as undermining the peace process in Northern Ireland.
It is and always has been an impossible wicket for May to play. Soon we will see how she actually plays it. The time for rhetoric is nearly over.
I have said on many occasions that these are not the only choices - more will emerge during the negotiations.
"At a joint news conference in Berlin, Merkel encouraged May to aim for something in between. Asked by a U.K. reporter if she could accept anything that is “bespoke,” the German leader came to May’s defense: "It’s not necessarily the case that a situation that is neither already known nor a classic free trade deal, that this situation is cherry-picking." "In the end, there has to be a fair balance, of variations, on the single market, for example," she said. “We as the 27 will ensure that it’s as close as possible, but that there’s a difference from current membership."
"However, she appeared to offer an olive branch by suggesting that the U.K.’s hopes of a bespoke deal may be achievable. Asked about bespoke arrangements — as opposed to the starker options of single market membership or a Canada-style trade deal — she said it was “not a given” that such an arrangement “means cherry-picking.” “In the end the outcome needs to be a fair balance that deviates from the single market and is not as close a partnership as we’ve had, but I think one can find that,” she said, according to the official translation of her remarks."
Thank you for your considered response. As stated elsewhere in my post "perhaps Labour and campaigns will wait until the EU27 dissect any proposition and spell out what is really on the table."
Some have stated that the UK will simply not secure passporting for financial services without being members of the single market.
Time will tell but what we have seen over the last 600 days is inertia and rhetoric. And talk of "a" customs union not "the" customs union. And for technical reasons that simply won't happen.
My money is on more stalling - as per comments six months ago May is still in Zugzuang where it will be better not to move and let somebody else make a play. Trouble for her is that everybody else is asking her to make a move... including Rees Mogg and his ERG.
Your optimism is admirable but not sure the politics will work like that?
Despite our deplorable political class, I am still optimistic.
However,you are so right about the inertia and rhetoric.
I said the figures were interesting then passed on some personal experiences from friends and former colleagues of mine who are either thinking or leaving or who have left.
Nice try, no coconut. You said there were 'fewer foreign people' here, presumably because it is now a racist hellhole,, whereas there are actually more. They obviously never got your memo about what a terrible country this now is.
I said the figures were interesting then passed on some personal experiences from friends and former colleagues of mine who are either thinking or leaving or who have left.
Nice try, no coconut. You said there were 'fewer foreign people' here, presumably because it is now a racist hellhole,, whereas there are actually more. They obviously never got your memo about what a terrible country this now is.
So are these figures a good thing or a bad thing ?
I said the figures were interesting then passed on some personal experiences from friends and former colleagues of mine who are either thinking or leaving or who have left.
Nice try, no coconut. You said there were 'fewer foreign people' here, presumably because it is now a racist hellhole,, whereas there are actually more. They obviously never got your memo about what a terrible country this now is.
So are these figures a good thing or a bad thing ?
They show that the UK is still an attractive place to come to. I am in favour of controlled immigration, we have more people in work in this country now than ever before, so more workers coming in at this time is not a problem generally speaking..
I said the figures were interesting then passed on some personal experiences from friends and former colleagues of mine who are either thinking or leaving or who have left.
Nice try, no coconut. You said there were 'fewer foreign people' here, presumably because it is now a racist hellhole,, whereas there are actually more. They obviously never got your memo about what a terrible country this now is.
Would some people not be happy there are fewer foreign people? I am sure some would, and they might have their own reasons for wanting that which is their choice. Luckily not that many I'd hope. Some people I know have definitely felt more discomfort there in the last years and particularly in the last couple but 'racist hellhole' is completely over the top. I was just adding some personal anecdote: it's not necessary to exaggerate so much. As the article points out, many EU nationals have chosen to leave and I think it's fair to comment if you know people who have or are thinking of doing so, and their reasons.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops. Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
NB There are most certainly not fewer foreign people in the UK. There are 244,000 more, 90,000 from the EU.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops. Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
The sooner there are not enough people to pick the crops the faster they will find a way to mechanise this work and consign the low paid back breaking jobs to history.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops. Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
The sooner there are not enough people to pick the crops the faster they will find a way to mechanise this work and consign the low paid back breaking jobs to history.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops. Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
The sooner there are not enough people to pick the crops the faster they will find a way to mechanise this work and consign the low paid back breaking jobs to history.
Alternatively we might starve.
There is always pick your own fruit if you are that hungry.
I think the more interesting extract is that 220,000 Eu migrants came here in the year in question and post referendum. That doesn't suggest it's a hateful place to come to.
Presumably the 220000 will have post brexit transition rights as I guess will the 130,000 who left in the same period.
I think the more interesting extract is that 220,000 Eu migrants came here in the year in question and post referendum. That doesn't suggest it's a hateful place to come to.
Presumably the 220000 will have post brexit transition rights as I guess will the 130,000 who left in the same period.
And so they should.
It is mainly in the minds of ex-pats like CharltonMadrid that the UK is a shit place to be. For all its faults the UK is still by most international standards a good place to live and those of us who do live here know that.
If Brexit ever happens we will have an opportunity to make it an even better place by having politicians who are directly accountable to us for everything they do.
I think the more interesting extract is that 220,000 Eu migrants came here in the year in question and post referendum. That doesn't suggest it's a hateful place to come to.
Presumably the 220000 will have post brexit transition rights as I guess will the 130,000 who left in the same period.
And so they should.
It is mainly in the minds of ex-pats like CharltonMadrid that the UK is a shit place to be. For all its faults the UK is still by most international standards a good place to live and those of us who do live here know that.
If Brexit ever happens we will have an opportunity to make it an even better place by having politicians who are directly accountable to us for everything they do.
Hold on! I didn't say it was a shit place to be! How on earth have you come to this conclusion? I posted a link about EU nationals leaving and said I knew some who had done so or were thinking of it which was a shame.
I believe if Brexit is to be successful people need to be far less confrontational and extreme. Very strange overreaction to my post and sorry if I made it look too critical but I was just passing on some personal experience. I didn't say the UK was shit - I don't think that for a minute.
There is often a strange suspicion on here of 'ex pats' - that somehow we do not live in the UK because we hate it, when often there are varied family and work reasons. The idea that somehow we are against the UK seems to come up on here occasionally and I always find it quite sad. We may not be in the UK but still feel very connected to it and are interested in what happens.
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
So in the year to September 2017 an additional 244,000 people have entered the UK (total net immigration) and unemployment is on the increase and yet farmers are complaining that there aren't enough immigrants to pick the crops. Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
The sooner there are not enough people to pick the crops the faster they will find a way to mechanise this work and consign the low paid back breaking jobs to history.
I think the more interesting extract is that 220,000 Eu migrants came here in the year in question and post referendum. That doesn't suggest it's a hateful place to come to.
Presumably the 220000 will have post brexit transition rights as I guess will the 130,000 who left in the same period.
And so they should.
It is mainly in the minds of ex-pats like CharltonMadrid that the UK is a shit place to be. For all its faults the UK is still by most international standards a good place to live and those of us who do live here know that.
If Brexit ever happens we will have an opportunity to make it an even better place by having politicians who are directly accountable to us for everything they do.
Hold on! I didn't say it was a shit place to be! How on earth have you come to this conclusion? I posted a link about EU nationals leaving and said I knew some who had done so or were thinking of it which was a shame.
I believe if Brexit is to be successful people need to be far less confrontational and extreme. Very strange overreaction to my post and sorry if I made it look too critical but I was just passing on some personal experience. I didn't say the UK was shit - I don't think that for a minute.
There is often a strange suspicion on here of 'ex pats' - that somehow we do not live in the UK because we hate it, when often there are varied family and work reasons. The idea that somehow we are against the UK seems to come up on here occasionally and I always find it quite sad. We may not be in the UK but still feel very connected to it and are interested in what happens.
Comments
Sounds a bit familiar.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth.
That's why I would be happy to play my part in negotiations.
I don't actually believe that the scenario you describe is what anybody actually wants but we might end up with some of that if May can't get her act together.
This issue is too important for our politicians to play silly games. Of course, we are unlikely to agree on which ones are playing the silliest games.
Some have stated that the UK will simply not secure passporting for financial services without being members of the single market.
Time will tell but what we have seen over the last 600 days is inertia and rhetoric. And talk of "a" customs union not "the" customs union. And for technical reasons that simply won't happen.
My money is on more stalling - as per comments six months ago May is still in Zugzuang where it will be better not to move and let somebody else make a play. Trouble for her is that everybody else is asking her to make a move... including Rees Mogg and his ERG.
Your optimism is admirable but not sure the politics will work like that?
That's why I would be happy to play my part in negotiations.
I don't actually believe that the scenario you describe is what anybody actually wants but we might end up with some of that if May can't get her act together.
This issue is too important for our politicians to play silly games. Of course, we are unlikely to agree on which ones are playing the silliest games.
My new bit:
I think between us we're getting our quoting a bit mixed up, but never mind.
Do you really mean that, if you had a seat at the negotiating table you would take up the cudgels on my behalf?
If you do, perhaps you could explain how there could be a border as open as going from Wandsworth to Lambeth on the island of Ireland, yet for the UK to be outside a customs union whilst taking in to account the constraints of the international treaty the UK signed commonly known as the Good Friday Agreement?
You lose a titchy bit of credibility if you say that you would put a rope around Wandsworth and tow it out to the mid Atlantic!
Migration figures: Highest number of EU nationals leaving UK in a decade - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43154308
I've certainly met quite a lot of EU citizens who have left or are thinking about leaving the UK either because of the uncertainty or through feeling unwelcome there now, particularly teachers. I'm sure many people will be happy there are fewer foreign people in the UK but these are tax paying, contributing members of society in jobs where there is a real recruitment shortfall like teaching or the NHS.
I would actually like to know what you think but there’s no way of finding out by reading your illiterate outpourings.
The headline is classic , misleading BBC anti- Brexit spin.
I don't actually believe that the scenario you describe is what anybody actually wants but we might end up with some of that if May can't get her act together.
This issue is too important for our politicians to play silly games. Of course, we are unlikely to agree on which ones are playing the silliest games.
My new bit:
I think between us we're getting our quoting a bit mixed up, but never mind.
Do you really mean that, if you had a seat at the negotiating table you would take up the cudgels on my behalf?
If you do, perhaps you could explain how there could be a border as open as going from Wandsworth to Lambeth on the island of Ireland, yet for the UK to be outside a customs union whilst taking in to account the constraints of the international treaty the UK signed commonly known as the Good Friday Agreement?
You lose a titchy bit of credibility if you say that you would put a rope around Wandsworth and tow it out to the mid Atlantic!
Sorry Seth i wont reveal my master plan in advance of sitting down but I will reveal the objectives to the EU as soon as we sit down. Unlike Mrs May.
However,you are so right about the inertia and rhetoric.
I am in favour of controlled immigration, we have more people in work in this country now than ever before, so more workers coming in at this time is not a problem generally speaking..
Hmm, you would have thought that with a quarter of million more people available it would be a resolvable issue.
NB There are most certainly not fewer foreign people in the UK. There are 244,000 more, 90,000 from the EU.
Presumably the 220000 will have post brexit transition rights as I guess will the 130,000 who left in the same period.
It is mainly in the minds of ex-pats like CharltonMadrid that the UK is a shit place to be. For all its faults the UK is still by most international standards a good place to live and those of us who do live here know that.
If Brexit ever happens we will have an opportunity to make it an even better place by having politicians who are directly accountable to us for everything they do.
I believe if Brexit is to be successful people need to be far less confrontational and extreme. Very strange overreaction to my post and sorry if I made it look too critical but I was just passing on some personal experience. I didn't say the UK was shit - I don't think that for a minute.
There is often a strange suspicion on here of 'ex pats' - that somehow we do not live in the UK because we hate it, when often there are varied family and work reasons. The idea that somehow we are against the UK seems to come up on here occasionally and I always find it quite sad. We may not be in the UK but still feel very connected to it and are interested in what happens.