The EU needs to continue to be improved. That does not mean it's significantly flawed as it is. It merely reflects the fact that the EU works to improve the opportunities and rights of EU citizens. And as the requirements of the citizens of the EU change, so the EU needs to adapt to reflect those changes.
All of us in the EU benefit directly and indirectly from the rights and opportunities that are protected and promoted by the EU. And, if nothing changes in future, membership of the EU does more for UK citizens' rights and opportunities than anything the Brexit clusterf*ck can hope to offer. The worst EU model available (ie the current version of the EU, without any further reform or improvement) does more for UK citizens than the wildest estimate as to what Brexit might be able to deliver.
I get the point that Brexit offers us the opportunity to negotiate trade deals with many, far-flung countries. (Although, I think the words "urgent and desperate need" in that sentence, as opposed to "opportunity"). But I cannot see how UK citizens rights and opportunities could be protected and promoted better by Brexit than by the EU.
Brexit offers British people less opportunity, fewer rights, likely lower growth and significantly less say on how the EU is run, moving forward. But I am sure that, at some point, Johnson, Gove, Davis or May will come out with something to show that it might be worth while. Surely..?
I disagree and believe that Macron has it right in his book, wherein he states that: The EU is suffering an existential crisis, unable to remedy its glaring policy failures and in danger of losing the support of its peoples. He further states that the EU is ‘too weak, too slow, too ineffective’.
Take a deep breath and re-read the first two sentences of my post. The one you highlighted (for some reason) and the one immediately before it, to which it refers.
If something requires continual improvement, it does not necessarily mean that it is fundamentally flawed.
A doctor isn't flawed simply because she continues to learn and develop her skills. A cake that needs twenty more minutes of cooking isn't flawed. Scientists aren't flawed simply because there are still more discoveries to be made.
You may *think* that the EU is fundamentally flawed. But you can't disagree with the sentence you have highlighted, because that sentence doesn't state that the EU is fundamentally flawed. It merely explains that the previous sentence doesn't demonstrate that it's flawed.
Maybe you didn't really want to address the topic of my post and, instead wanted to introduce some "quotes" from another EU Head of State. If so, fill your boots. But it would be interesting to see whether you disagree with the fundamental point I made in my post. If you can see it.
Not sure if I am missing something here - it could be my misunderstanding - if so, I apologise.
To recap, I believe the EU is fundamentally flawed in its current state ... as does Macron, Merkel and many others in positions of power.
It is not just me (and them) that believes that - many other commentators do (e.g. also refer to the report that @PragueAddick provided).
And why do you refer to the comments from Macron as 'quotes' - do you think I have provided an incorrect reflection of his statements? Read his book and you will see that they are exactly his thoughts.
Thanks for recapping the part of your post that wasn't relevant to mine.
Now to the bit that *is* relevant. The rights and opportunities of citizens are better protected by the EU (even if the EU requires improvement) than they are by any reasonable definition of what Brexit might be. To put it another way, British citizens' rights and opportunities are better protected and better promoted while we are in the EU than they can be if we were ever to leave.
I am waiting to see if any of the group of Brexiteers leading us away from the EU are able to demonstrate why losing these rights and opportunities will be, in the round, worth while. It's not apparent yet.
I'm very worried about our rights, and have no faith whatsoever in the brexit leaders doing anything to protect them. It's no coincidence that the sort of people pushing brexit, are the sort of people who support fixed hours contacts, low wages, longer hours, and union bashing.
The EU needs to continue to be improved. That does not mean it's significantly flawed as it is. It merely reflects the fact that the EU works to improve the opportunities and rights of EU citizens. And as the requirements of the citizens of the EU change, so the EU needs to adapt to reflect those changes.
All of us in the EU benefit directly and indirectly from the rights and opportunities that are protected and promoted by the EU. And, if nothing changes in future, membership of the EU does more for UK citizens' rights and opportunities than anything the Brexit clusterf*ck can hope to offer. The worst EU model available (ie the current version of the EU, without any further reform or improvement) does more for UK citizens than the wildest estimate as to what Brexit might be able to deliver.
I get the point that Brexit offers us the opportunity to negotiate trade deals with many, far-flung countries. (Although, I think the words "urgent and desperate need" in that sentence, as opposed to "opportunity"). But I cannot see how UK citizens rights and opportunities could be protected and promoted better by Brexit than by the EU.
Brexit offers British people less opportunity, fewer rights, likely lower growth and significantly less say on how the EU is run, moving forward. But I am sure that, at some point, Johnson, Gove, Davis or May will come out with something to show that it might be worth while. Surely..?
I disagree and believe that Macron has it right in his book, wherein he states that: The EU is suffering an existential crisis, unable to remedy its glaring policy failures and in danger of losing the support of its peoples. He further states that the EU is ‘too weak, too slow, too ineffective’.
Take a deep breath and re-read the first two sentences of my post. The one you highlighted (for some reason) and the one immediately before it, to which it refers.
If something requires continual improvement, it does not necessarily mean that it is fundamentally flawed.
A doctor isn't flawed simply because she continues to learn and develop her skills. A cake that needs twenty more minutes of cooking isn't flawed. Scientists aren't flawed simply because there are still more discoveries to be made.
You may *think* that the EU is fundamentally flawed. But you can't disagree with the sentence you have highlighted, because that sentence doesn't state that the EU is fundamentally flawed. It merely explains that the previous sentence doesn't demonstrate that it's flawed.
Maybe you didn't really want to address the topic of my post and, instead wanted to introduce some "quotes" from another EU Head of State. If so, fill your boots. But it would be interesting to see whether you disagree with the fundamental point I made in my post. If you can see it.
Not sure if I am missing something here - it could be my misunderstanding - if so, I apologise.
To recap, I believe the EU is fundamentally flawed in its current state ... as does Macron, Merkel and many others in positions of power.
It is not just me (and them) that believes that - many other commentators do (e.g. also refer to the report that @PragueAddick provided).
And why do you refer to the comments from Macron as 'quotes' - do you think I have provided an incorrect reflection of his statements? Read his book and you will see that they are exactly his thoughts.
Thanks for recapping the part of your post that wasn't relevant to mine.
Now to the bit that *is* relevant. The rights and opportunities of citizens are better protected by the EU (even if the EU requires improvement) than they are by any reasonable definition of what Brexit might be. To put it another way, British citizens' rights and opportunities are better protected and better promoted while we are in the EU than they can be if we were ever to leave.
I am waiting to see if any of the group of Brexiteers leading us away from the EU are able to demonstrate why losing these rights and opportunities will be, in the round, worth while. It's not apparent yet.
I'm very worried about our rights, and have no faith whatsoever in the brexit leaders doing anything to protect them. It's no coincidence that the sort of people pushing brexit, are the sort of people who support fixed hours contacts, low wages, longer hours, and union bashing.
Absolutely Stig. I've bored myself silly let alone everyone else making the point that not only as employees as per your example but as consumers also there is no doubt we will be worse off post-Brexit. People can choose to believe David Davis if they like, that we will see no change in our protections, but the bloke is a disingenuous twat who lies to the House at the drop of a hat. Plus he's not going going to be in a position to make that call. Plus he's jacking it in anyway so isn't going to be around to face the music. Do any of the Leavers trust Gove to deliver on what he says? Ask Boris if he's to be trusted.
Yet, despite all the protections we benefit from through our EU membership being up for grabs (and in the hands of individual ministers I'd add) it hardly features in these discussions. I'd welcome less rhetoric about what might or might not happen with a future trade deal or where the EU might be in 10 years and more chat about chlorinated chicken and whether we'll lose our rights to free data roaming or whether we'll still have 14 days to send stuff back to Amazon. And hundreds of other practicalities.
These are the reality of the impact the EU has on our day to day lives, not some nefarious, vague, notion of sovereignty theft or a liberal elite forcing its will upon us.
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
@PragueAddick reading your post reminds me of the pictures from the Welsh town that voted Remain. It was the day after the referendum and the news item showed various massive billboards showing that various things like roads, health centres, swimming pools, schools etc had been built with EU money. They even interviewed somebody right in front of one who said that the EU had done nothing for the town.
My point is that decades of negativity from the Brexit press trumped facts.
And to prove the value of Eurobarometer, and especially for @Southbank, here is one of the more top line questions, overall image of the EU. Year 2000 up to now
And this one. The worst thing about this one is the fact that it depicts just how far apart the two sides of the Tory party still are.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t most of what will happen after we leave need to be concluded by October for a March 2019 exit? At this rate we may get an agreement from the Tory party about what colour ties delegates wear to the meetings in October, but not much else
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
The Today programme on Radio 4 came live from Calais. I don't know whether militant Brexiteer @nth london addick business still runs trucks through Calais regularly. If so he can get used to them sitting in 15kms queues, sitting ducks for stowaways.
The programme reported that nothing has been done to build the new customs sheds and modern scanning equipment needed to process the 2 million trucks which head through Calais every year. That is because nobody over there has the faintest idea what kind of Brexit is actually going to be agreed on. 13 months to go, tick tock, tick tock.
And this one. The worst thing about this one is the fact that it depicts just how far apart the two sides of the Tory party still are.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t most of what will happen after we leave need to be concluded by October for a March 2019 exit? At this rate we may get an agreement from the Tory party about what colour ties delegates wear to the meetings in October, but not much else
Well that can't be right surely...after all we all knew exactly what we were voting on according to the Leave narrative being pushed now!
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...
Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...
Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
However you make the mistake of assuming that these populists have
- "exit" as their key proposition - collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue
This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...
Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
However you make the mistake of assuming that these populists have
- "exit" as their key proposition - collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue
This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).
No, I do not assume that. If they have anything in common it is opposition to the status quo or to the elites and generally speaking the most status quo and elitist parties across Europe happen to be pro EU (I know there are exceptions but it broadly holds).
Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.
Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.
'We disagreed with' does not mean 'untrue'. Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
Just to say that following a..er.. lively discussion with my wife ( a market research professional) I emerge bruised and battered to inform you all that the big research project I was espousing already exists and has done continuously for 40 odd years. Right down to the "what are the key issues that affect you personally" question that I was sure would be the new killer reveal.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
I wasn’t aware of that either. Rather disappointing that it is not more widely known.
Exactly. Occasionally I would see an interesting graph from it on Twitter but it would be gone before I could stick it on here to counter @southbank latest 'world through the Brexiteer prism", and I didn't know where to find it again. Well I know now, so expect to see some more graphs and data. The good thing is that the framework for what I am proposing is already in place. The work is syndicated to competent national MR agencies in each country. My wife knew which one does it here. All that would be needed would be to develop specific questions, build a new website to present it in a 2018 type format, and then make a big noise about it. Would not actually cost much...
Opinion polls are always interesting. But in the real elections the most pro EU parties are continuing to lose support across Europe to populists.
However you make the mistake of assuming that these populists have
- "exit" as their key proposition - collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue
This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).
No, I do not assume that. If they have anything in common it is opposition to the status quo or to the elites and generally speaking the most status quo and elitist parties across Europe happen to be pro EU (I know there are exceptions but it broadly holds).
Ah yes, the "elites" again. How dare they be educated and pursue moderate political policies, all across Europe. Not like those plain speaking honest toiling working class populists such as Farage, Rees-Mogg, Le Pen, Wilders...oh, hang on..
Enough, I'm off to explore Eurobarometer, so brace yourself, @Southbank, death by a thousand graphs awaits you, my friend...
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
EDIT PS I think he may have been an Irish Ambassador previously, not a minister.
Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.
'We disagreed with' does not mean 'untrue'. Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
Agreed. Aaron Banks net worth £250m - Rees-Mogg net worth £45m.
Elites elites elites. Can't you come up with a new word? We've already debunked the pro-EU = elite nonsense multiple times. Just because you keep repeating this lie doesn't make it any more true.
'We disagreed with' does not mean 'untrue'. Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
Agreed. Aaron Banks net worth £250m - Rees-Mogg net worth £45m.
Or were you attempting to be sarcastic? ;-)
If I had the time I could add up the wealth of the pro EU versus the anti EU people across Europe. But lets start with just one, George Soros, in the news because he is co funding an anti Brexit ad campaign here over the next few weeks-net worth 25 billion. Now you add up the net worth of the pro Brexit people and if you can get them all to add up to 25b I will easily find many more pro EU billionaires.
Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Of course, rich, powerful and wealthy people across Europe are united in their opposition to the EU. You only have to look at what they said during the referendum campaign to know that.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
I'm not normally grammar police - but, in the context of your post, that's pretty priceless.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
Comments
Yet, despite all the protections we benefit from through our EU membership being up for grabs (and in the hands of individual ministers I'd add) it hardly features in these discussions. I'd welcome less rhetoric about what might or might not happen with a future trade deal or where the EU might be in 10 years and more chat about chlorinated chicken and whether we'll lose our rights to free data roaming or whether we'll still have 14 days to send stuff back to Amazon. And hundreds of other practicalities.
These are the reality of the impact the EU has on our day to day lives, not some nefarious, vague, notion of sovereignty theft or a liberal elite forcing its will upon us.
It's all there.
The question then is, that if even I, an active Europhile, was only dimly aware of this, whose fault is that, and what can we do about it?
My point is that decades of negativity from the Brexit press trumped facts.
And this one. The worst thing about this one is the fact that it depicts just how far apart the two sides of the Tory party still are.
Correct me if I’m wrong but doesn’t most of what will happen after we leave need to be concluded by October for a March 2019 exit? At this rate we may get an agreement from the Tory party about what colour ties delegates wear to the meetings in October, but not much else
The programme reported that nothing has been done to build the new customs sheds and modern scanning equipment needed to process the 2 million trucks which head through Calais every year. That is because nobody over there has the faintest idea what kind of Brexit is actually going to be agreed on. 13 months to go, tick tock, tick tock.
- "exit" as their key proposition
- collected votes primarily because of the exit/EU issue
This is not some 1000 respondent internet based bollocks on a tiny budget for the Daily Mail. There is a wealth of information in there which I look forward to delving into. I strongly recommend you to do the same, so that you can educate yourself on the nuanced nature of modern politics of those far away countries of which you know little (to quote that tosser Chamberlain).
Enough, I'm off to explore Eurobarometer, so brace yourself, @Southbank, death by a thousand graphs awaits you, my friend...
Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
EDIT PS
I think he may have been an Irish Ambassador previously, not a minister.
Or were you attempting to be sarcastic? ;-)
Now you add up the net worth of the pro Brexit people and if you can get them all to add up to 25b I will easily find many more pro EU billionaires.
ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.