If it damages the country, which I fear it will and actually is doing, it is the responsibility not just of politicians, but all those who voted for it. That is inescapable. And if by some miracle everything works out fine, they can take the credit too Good luck with that one.
If it damages the country, which I fear it will and actually is doing, it is the responsibility not just of politicians, but all those who voted for it. That is inescapable. And if by some miracle everything works out fine, they can take the credit too Good luck with that one.
It is the responsibility of the people who didn't vote for it, and who know what an utter disaster Brexit will be for the country, to prevent it happening.
Apparently the port of Rotterdam is recruiting more customs officers in anticipation of border checks increasing after brexit.
Looks like a real Brexit bonus for job hunters in Rotterdam then. FT reckon Unilever will be choosing the city as its new HQ at the expense of the U.K options. Never mind. Cheap footwear.
If it damages the country, which I fear it will and actually is doing, it is the responsibility not just of politicians, but all those who voted for it. That is inescapable. And if by some miracle everything works out fine, they can take the credit too Good luck with that one.
It is the responsibility of the people who didn't vote for it, and who know what an utter disaster Brexit will be for the country, to prevent it happening.
I think it should read TRY to prevent it happening.
I accept the result. It is now down to you to make it work, not down to the remainers.
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth.
If it damages the country, which I fear it will and actually is doing, it is the responsibility not just of politicians, but all those who voted for it. That is inescapable. And if by some miracle everything works out fine, they can take the credit too Good luck with that one.
It is the responsibility of the people who didn't vote for it, and who know what an utter disaster Brexit will be for the country, to prevent it happening.
I wish there was a legitimate way to do this. I suspect it will take a campaign involving a kind of national work to rule. The brexiters introduce all of their new rules and restrictions and us losers obey them to the nth degree every dot and comma. We will then test the practical realities the brexiters will visit upon the UK, and I would expect the EU to be unbending in sustaining every single rule too. If I am right in thinking brexiters simply intend to blag it, then we shall see to what degree they succeed, but I suspect they will make Southeastern Railways look like the smoothest most efficient organisation ever.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Well I still don't get it tbh. Again are you saying Ireland should align itself to the UK, due to the volume of business it does with it, but the same principle shouldn't apply to the UK's onward relationship with the EU? If so why not?
The ex ROI minister says they should align with UK according to Seth. A current minister says they should support the uk due to the fact of over 75% of their trade is with the uk. So she suggested it too. Personally i don't give a toss what they do. Comprendi.
Je comprends merci. At least what the two ministers are saying anyway. Because they are saying that cutting off the relationship with their major market is a silly thing to do. I'd argue that maintaining access to the EU trumps that in the long term though.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Well I still don't get it tbh. Again are you saying Ireland should align itself to the UK, due to the volume of business it does with it, but the same principle shouldn't apply to the UK's onward relationship with the EU? If so why not?
The ex ROI minister says they should align with UK according to Seth. A current minister says they should support the uk due to the fact of over 75% of their trade is with the uk. So she suggested it too. Personally i don't give a toss what they do. Comprendi.
Je comprends merci. At least what the two ministers are saying anyway. Because they are saying that cutting off the relationship with their major market is a silly thing to do. I'd argue that maintaining maintaining access to the EU trumps that in the long term though.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth. </blockquote
Is there anything to negotiate? Surely brexiters want to walk away with no deal at all, work on WTO rules, have mass repatriation in both directions, massive border checks, no security or sea and airspace or medicine cooperation? As Farage says, this is the brexit the UK voted for, what is there to negotiate? It is not down to brexiters to negotiate so much as solve the practical problems.
Considering the UK has ten times the population and is the only country which shares a completely open land border with Ireland, it is actually astonishing to me that only 75% of Ireland's total exports end up in the UK!
I wonder what percentage of Kent's "exports" end up in rest of the UK.
Considering the UK has ten times the population and is the only country which shares a completely open land border with Ireland, it is actually astonishing to me that only 75% of Ireland's total exports end up in the UK!
I wonder what percentage of Kent's "exports" end up in rest of the UK.
I cannot remember the exact figures, but they vary, depending on whether we are talking % by volume or % by value. Our friends in the OECD have provided a reasonably easy to understand explanation of Ireland's trading relationships (2016): https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/irl/.
Because of the relative bulk of food produce, including a significant proportion of the Cheddar eaten in the UK, the volume of goods traded to the UK are higher.
However, the value of Ireland's exports to the UK (at 13%) are roughly half of that with the USA (a lot of which will be US companies operating in Ireland, at least in part because of its EU membership), and on a par with Belgium. The EU27, as a whole, receives roughly 40% of Ireland's exports.
As an aside, no Irish Minister or ex-Minister has made a case for Ireland leaving the EU in association with the UK. Those that have spoken, including ex-Taoisigh Enda Kenny, John Bruton and Bertie Ahern, have made clear that Brexit carries significant risks in Ireland and simply creates problems for everyone. Bertie Ahern has suggested that turning a blind eye could be part of any solution - but this probably says a little more about his own particular brand of political thinking than any legally valid solution to the border problem that Brexit creates.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Is this one of your very rich company owning colleagues, German colleagues, academic colleagues or just a workmate sticking a rivet through a sheet of galvanised steel ?
I suggest before you start lecturing anyone on their being dense you pay some attention to the spelling and grammatical structure of your posts. It really would help the rest of us understand what you are trying to say.
I might add that if I and others don’t understand what you are saying then that’s your fault not ours. Berating us for not being able to pick our way through your gibberish is really rather muggy.
Work collegues....my German colleagues errr are in Germany...Do you understand that. They understood if you didn't thats your fault....Join me in the evening class.
Considering the UK has ten times the population and is the only country which shares a completely open land border with Ireland, it is actually astonishing to me that only 75% of Ireland's total exports end up in the UK!
I wonder what percentage of Kent's "exports" end up in rest of the UK.
I cannot remember the exact figures, but they vary, depending on whether we are talking % by volume or % by value. Our friends in the OECD have provided a reasonably easy to understand explanation of Ireland's trading relationships (2016): https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/irl/.
Because of the relative bulk of food produce, including a significant proportion of the Cheddar eaten in the UK, the volume of goods traded to the UK are higher.
However, the value of Ireland's exports to the UK (at 13%) are roughly half of that with the USA (a lot of which will be US companies operating in Ireland, at least in part because of its EU membership), and on a par with Belgium. The EU27, as a whole, receives roughly 40% of Ireland's exports.
As an aside, no Irish Minister or ex-Minister has made a case for Ireland leaving the EU in association with the UK. Those that have spoken, including ex-Taoisigh Enda Kenny,John Bruton and Bertie Ahern, have made clear that Brexit carries significant risks in Ireland and simply creates problems for everyone. Bertie Ahern has suggested that turning a blind eye could be part of any solution - but this probably says a little more about his own particular brand of political thinking than any legally valid solution to the border problem that Brexit creates.
Well I'm even more astonished now. Mainly about how little I know about anything!
Where did that 75% figure come from? The true value seems drastically lower (even though I guessed it would be higher).
The web site seems to suggest (among many other things) that Ireland exports $4 billion dollars of "human or animal blood" to Belgium! I must admit I hadn't factored this into my thoughts about Brexit and the EU in general.
I have no idea whether this trade would be affected if Ireland were to decide to align itself more with the UK.
I guess it's time to just let the experts get on with it!
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Is this one of your very rich company owning colleagues, German colleagues, academic colleagues or just a workmate sticking a rivet through a sheet of galvanised steel ?
I suggest before you start lecturing anyone on their being dense you pay some attention to the spelling and grammatical structure of your posts. It really would help the rest of us understand what you are trying to say.
I might add that if I and others don’t understand what you are saying then that’s your fault not ours. Berating us for not being able to pick our way through your gibberish is really rather muggy.
Also you mean others on your side....That goes two ways...I will leave to work out that gibberish.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Well I still don't get it tbh. Again are you saying Ireland should align itself to the UK, due to the volume of business it does with it, but the same principle shouldn't apply to the UK's onward relationship with the EU? If so why not?
The ex ROI minister says they should align with UK according to Seth. A current minister says they should support the uk due to the fact of over 75% of their trade is with the uk. So she suggested it too. Personally i don't give a toss what they do. Comprendi.
Je comprends merci. At least what the two ministers are saying anyway. Because they are saying that cutting off the relationship with their major market is a silly thing to do. I'd argue that maintaining access to the EU trumps that in the long term though.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
I didn't say it was ok the Irish minister did....i clearly said i don't give a toss...
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Well I still don't get it tbh. Again are you saying Ireland should align itself to the UK, due to the volume of business it does with it, but the same principle shouldn't apply to the UK's onward relationship with the EU? If so why not?
The ex ROI minister says they should align with UK according to Seth. A current minister says they should support the uk due to the fact of over 75% of their trade is with the uk. So she suggested it too. Personally i don't give a toss what they do. Comprendi.
Je comprends merci. At least what the two ministers are saying anyway. Because they are saying that cutting off the relationship with their major market is a silly thing to do. I'd argue that maintaining access to the EU trumps that in the long term though.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
I didn't say it was ok the Irish minister did....i clearly said i don't give a toss...
Well no. What you said was, "...So i guess it would be in their interests..." [to align with the UK outside the EU]. So why do you guess it's their interests to maintain their trading arrangements with the UK, as the majority share of their export market, but not for the UK to do the same with its most significant trading partner...by staying in?
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Well I still don't get it tbh. Again are you saying Ireland should align itself to the UK, due to the volume of business it does with it, but the same principle shouldn't apply to the UK's onward relationship with the EU? If so why not?
The ex ROI minister says they should align with UK according to Seth. A current minister says they should support the uk due to the fact of over 75% of their trade is with the uk. So she suggested it too. Personally i don't give a toss what they do. Comprendi.
Je comprends merci. At least what the two ministers are saying anyway. Because they are saying that cutting off the relationship with their major market is a silly thing to do. I'd argue that maintaining access to the EU trumps that in the long term though.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
I didn't say it was ok the Irish minister did....i clearly said i don't give a toss...
Well no. What you said was, "...So i guess it would be in their interests..." [to align with the UK outside the EU]. So why do you guess it's their interests to maintain their trading arrangements with the UK, as the majority share of their export market, but not for the UK to do the same with its most significant trading partner...by staying in?
Because of the % of their trade...FFS thought you had more brains than that. Where s me grand daughter when you need her. Why cant people read properly....May need to get the abacus out too. End of story......
anyway, all will be sorted today at chequers and we'll be able to close the thread and get back to slagging off the sacred cow airman brown on the takeover thread. I look forward to what May and the rest of the enlightened are going to come up with
I accept the result. It is now down to you to make it work, not down to the remainers.
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
So on that basis, anyone who votes labour/tory is responsible for making their promises happen after elections. I know a one off referendum is different to an election, but the general point remains.
The referendum was called by politicians. Politician's put their justifications, aims, reasons etc forward. The people vote and the politicians are then responsible for the application.
I accept the result. It is now down to you to make it work, not down to the remainers.
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work. People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
So on that basis, anyone who votes labour/tory is responsible for making their promises happen after elections. I know a one off referendum is different to an election, but the general point remains.
The referendum was called by politicians. Politician's put their justifications, aims, reasons etc forward. The people vote and the politicians are then responsible for the application.
You are right that the referendum is different. It could be argued that politicians abdicated responsibility in having the referendum and handed it over to those who voted brexit, it is not an every five year thing. If now the politicians are responsible for the application, the buck is passed back to them, so if those politicians say 'no, it can't be done, all bets are off' they overrule the referendum they called.
anyway, all will be sorted today at chequers and we'll be able to close the thread and get back to slagging off the sacred cow airman brown on the takeover thread. I look forward to what May and the rest of the enlightened are going to come up with
It's over 600 days since the referendum and just over a year until we leave, so it might be quite helpful if the Cabinet can agree a position!
Whatever they agree will not have majority support in Parliament nor with the electorate. It will be open to criticism, ridicule and expert analysis of the impact.
And that's when campaigns and Labour will finally have a target to aim at. Or perhaps they wait until the EU27 have dissected any proposition and replied with what is actually on the table? Those who want Labour to hurry up lack finesse and fail to see the bigger picture. For time is ticking and the Conservative party has has a fault line for decades which may well divide the party for good.
The options are still either Canada or a Brexit in name only with no end date on a transition period. That is until an FTA is agreed. In other words a Norway plus CU option.
And the interesting part is that this will take us over to the next General election. So in the end the electorate will have control after all. This since they determine the shape of the next Parliament.
And thus one might expect the Government to kick the can down the road rather than opting for the Canada style relationship which reduces GDP growth drastically as well as undermining the peace process in Northern Ireland.
It is and always has been an impossible wicket for May to play. Soon we will see how she actually plays it. The time for rhetoric is nearly over.
Not really. If Labour decided they can't meet their election promises/aims/desires a year after an election, they don't say "after further thoughts, we can't deliver on those things we promised, so we'll overrule the vote and pass the baton to the Tory's for the next 4 years".
Of course, I get that the referendum was a one off and you can't revert back after five years, but it has to be seen through. The politicians owe it to the public, otherwise it's a complete kick in the gonads for democracy, even if it was wrongly provided to us in some peoples opinions.
I was always of the opinion that this is a change for future generations, possibly long after our lifetimes. I don't expect to see major improvements in 5/10/15 years etc., in fact things may well get worse, but history (or peoples interpretation of it) will view the success or not of the decision, probably long after all our time.
There was an ex ROI foreign minister on the wireless today who seemed to suggest that one solution to the border issue is for The Republic to (kind of) leave the EU to fit in with the brexit decision. If I understood it correctly, he was saying the for the Republic of Ireland their economy was much more dependent on the actions of Britain rather than Brussels, and really the Republic have no choice but to be prepared to be dragged away from the EU because of the brexit vote in the UK. Anybody else hear that, and has a handle on it?
A few months ago on LBC (ian dale) an irish minister in sweden at the time stated that 75% of their exports particularly agriculture was to the UK... Note : - ministers mouth not google, or guardian as they wouldn't carry that story. So i guess it would be in their interests. If not they could always distance themselves from us as per my solution the other day.
Not sure I understand what you are saying (not for the first time either). If I’m reading your post correctly. You may be guilty of some arse upwards thinking. Are you saying it’s a significant fact that the bulk of the ROI trade is with the UK and therefore a good idea for them to be more aligned with us than the 27 ? In which case as the bulk of the UK’s trade is with the 27 why is it a bad idea for us to not be aligned with the eu ?
I am not surprised you don't understand, we are poles apart regarding interlect particularly in the real world not charlton life world. Read both posts again and i will get my 7 year old grand daughter explain it to you if it's too difficult.
Nope. I’ve reread it and it’s still so grammatically poor as to be virtually meaningless and certainly ambiguous. I’m sorry that you feel we are poles apart intellectually. Might I suggest you try evening classes.
At work we would be screaming BASICS meaning, you must be a bit dense not to understand it. I showed this to my colleagues last night and posted seth's and my reply. Their reply was, no wonder they support charlton. I hope i don't have to explain that. Blackboard and chalk ready....
Well I still don't get it tbh. Again are you saying Ireland should align itself to the UK, due to the volume of business it does with it, but the same principle shouldn't apply to the UK's onward relationship with the EU? If so why not?
The ex ROI minister says they should align with UK according to Seth. A current minister says they should support the uk due to the fact of over 75% of their trade is with the uk. So she suggested it too. Personally i don't give a toss what they do. Comprendi.
Je comprends merci. At least what the two ministers are saying anyway. Because they are saying that cutting off the relationship with their major market is a silly thing to do. I'd argue that maintaining access to the EU trumps that in the long term though.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
I didn't say it was ok the Irish minister did....i clearly said i don't give a toss...
Well no. What you said was, "...So i guess it would be in their interests..." [to align with the UK outside the EU]. So why do you guess it's their interests to maintain their trading arrangements with the UK, as the majority share of their export market, but not for the UK to do the same with its most significant trading partner...by staying in?
Because of the % of their trade...FFS thought you had more brains than that. Where s me grand daughter when you need her. Why cant people read properly....May need to get the abacus out too. End of story......
That's an interesting answer. So what you're saying is that at some point, between where the UK is with % trade with the EU and where Ireland is with % trade with the UK, lies your tipping point where it's worth jacking it in? Is it a straightforward majority or have you built in say a 2/3rds majority before you're off? Is this assessment over 1, 3, 10 years? What about those business that cater for the other markets that you're placing a barrier between?
Your answer raises lots of interesting points for me. Thanks.
anyway, all will be sorted today at chequers and we'll be able to close the thread and get back to slagging off the sacred cow airman brown on the takeover thread. I look forward to what May and the rest of the enlightened are going to come up with
It's over 600 days since the referendum and just over a year until we leave, so it might be quite helpful if the Cabinet can agree a position!
Whatever they agree will not have majority support in Parliament nor with the electorate. It will be open to criticism, ridicule and expert analysis of the impact.
And that's when campaigns and Labour will finally have a target to aim at. Or perhaps they wait until the EU27 have dissected any proposition and replied with what is actually on the table? Those who want Labour to hurry up lack finesse and fail to see the bigger picture. For time is ticking and the Conservative party has has a fault line for decades which may well divide the party for good.
The options are still either Canada or a Brexit in name only with no end date on a transition period. That is until an FTA is agreed. In other words a Norway plus CU option.
And the interesting part is that this will take us over to the next General election. So in the end the electorate will have control after all. This since they determine the shape of the next Parliament.
And thus one might expect the Government to kick the can down the road rather than opting for the Canada style relationship which reduces GDP growth drastically as well as undermining the peace process in Northern Ireland.
It is and always has been an impossible wicket for May to play. Soon we will see how she actually plays it. The time for rhetoric is nearly over.
I have said on many occasions that these are not the only choices - more will emerge during the negotiations.
"At a joint news conference in Berlin, Merkel encouraged May to aim for something in between. Asked by a U.K. reporter if she could accept anything that is “bespoke,” the German leader came to May’s defense: "It’s not necessarily the case that a situation that is neither already known nor a classic free trade deal, that this situation is cherry-picking." "In the end, there has to be a fair balance, of variations, on the single market, for example," she said. “We as the 27 will ensure that it’s as close as possible, but that there’s a difference from current membership."
"However, she appeared to offer an olive branch by suggesting that the U.K.’s hopes of a bespoke deal may be achievable. Asked about bespoke arrangements — as opposed to the starker options of single market membership or a Canada-style trade deal — she said it was “not a given” that such an arrangement “means cherry-picking.” “In the end the outcome needs to be a fair balance that deviates from the single market and is not as close a partnership as we’ve had, but I think one can find that,” she said, according to the official translation of her remarks."
Considering the UK has ten times the population and is the only country which shares a completely open land border with Ireland, it is actually astonishing to me that only 75% of Ireland's total exports end up in the UK!
I wonder what percentage of Kent's "exports" end up in rest of the UK.
I cannot remember the exact figures, but they vary, depending on whether we are talking % by volume or % by value. Our friends in the OECD have provided a reasonably easy to understand explanation of Ireland's trading relationships (2016): https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/irl/.
Because of the relative bulk of food produce, including a significant proportion of the Cheddar eaten in the UK, the volume of goods traded to the UK are higher.
However, the value of Ireland's exports to the UK (at 13%) are roughly half of that with the USA (a lot of which will be US companies operating in Ireland, at least in part because of its EU membership), and on a par with Belgium. The EU27, as a whole, receives roughly 40% of Ireland's exports.
As an aside, no Irish Minister or ex-Minister has made a case for Ireland leaving the EU in association with the UK. Those that have spoken, including ex-Taoisigh Enda Kenny,John Bruton and Bertie Ahern, have made clear that Brexit carries significant risks in Ireland and simply creates problems for everyone. Bertie Ahern has suggested that turning a blind eye could be part of any solution - but this probably says a little more about his own particular brand of political thinking than any legally valid solution to the border problem that Brexit creates.
Well I'm even more astonished now. Mainly about how little I know about anything!
Where did that 75% figure come from? The true value seems drastically lower (even though I guessed it would be higher).
The web site seems to suggest (among many other things) that Ireland exports $4 billion dollars of "human or animal blood" to Belgium! I must admit I hadn't factored this into my thoughts about Brexit and the EU in general.
I have no idea whether this trade would be affected if Ireland were to decide to align itself more with the UK.
I guess it's time to just let the experts get on with it!
It's almost certain that the blood will be part of the pharmatceutical industry and so, things like standards and traceability are likely to more of an issue than price per se.
Even if not directly affected, the willingness of international companies to invest in R&D and production in Ireland (most famously Viagra) would be reduced by the impact of (the likely scenario) of being outside the remit of the European Medicines Agency.
Much the same kind of thing is being suggested for the UK car industry, if it is outside the Customs Union and Single Market (where, even if the UK rolls over current EU trade agreements with third parties, the FTAs specify that a certain percentage of the finished product must be made within the jusrisdiction - 70% of a car being made up of EU products is much easier to achieve than 35% from the UK alone).
It is worth pointing out that, even if there were tariffs placed on trade from Ireland to the UK for agricultural produce, the UK market is set up in such a way that makes Ireland a key supplier - unless everyone gives up toasted cheese...
Brexit will have a significant effect upon the retail sector in Ireland (particularly for well-known UK retailers) with the supply chain not being set up for Brexit.
Comments
I suspect it will take a campaign involving a kind of national work to rule.
The brexiters introduce all of their new rules and restrictions and us losers obey them to the nth degree every dot and comma.
We will then test the practical realities the brexiters will visit upon the UK, and I would expect the EU to be unbending in sustaining every single rule too.
If I am right in thinking brexiters simply intend to blag it, then we shall see to what degree they succeed, but I suspect they will make Southeastern Railways look like the smoothest most efficient organisation ever.
What I don't understand is your point that it's okay for Ireland to prioritise their majority trading partner but not the UK? Why's that?
I think you will find it's down to politicians to make it work.
People on here are only expressing opinions.
I disagree. You knew what you were voting for if you voted brexit and the politicians are doing what you tell them. Brexiters are 100% responsible in making it happen and remainers have 0% responsibility.
Well give me a seat at the negotiating table and I will happily take up the cudgels on your behalf Seth. </blockquote
Is there anything to negotiate?
Surely brexiters want to walk away with no deal at all, work on WTO rules, have mass repatriation in both directions, massive border checks, no security or sea and airspace or medicine cooperation?
As Farage says, this is the brexit the UK voted for, what is there to negotiate?
It is not down to brexiters to negotiate so much as solve the practical problems.
I wonder what percentage of Kent's "exports" end up in rest of the UK.
Because of the relative bulk of food produce, including a significant proportion of the Cheddar eaten in the UK, the volume of goods traded to the UK are higher.
However, the value of Ireland's exports to the UK (at 13%) are roughly half of that with the USA (a lot of which will be US companies operating in Ireland, at least in part because of its EU membership), and on a par with Belgium. The EU27, as a whole, receives roughly 40% of Ireland's exports.
As an aside, no Irish Minister or ex-Minister has made a case for Ireland leaving the EU in association with the UK. Those that have spoken, including ex-Taoisigh Enda Kenny, John Bruton and Bertie Ahern, have made clear that Brexit carries significant risks in Ireland and simply creates problems for everyone. Bertie Ahern has suggested that turning a blind eye could be part of any solution - but this probably says a little more about his own particular brand of political thinking than any legally valid solution to the border problem that Brexit creates.
Where did that 75% figure come from? The true value seems drastically lower (even though I guessed it would be higher).
The web site seems to suggest (among many other things) that Ireland exports $4 billion dollars of "human or animal blood" to Belgium! I must admit I hadn't factored this into my thoughts about Brexit and the EU in general.
I have no idea whether this trade would be affected if Ireland were to decide to align itself more with the UK.
I guess it's time to just let the experts get on with it!
The referendum was called by politicians. Politician's put their justifications, aims, reasons etc forward. The people vote and the politicians are then responsible for the application.
If now the politicians are responsible for the application, the buck is passed back to them, so if those politicians say 'no, it can't be done, all bets are off' they overrule the referendum they called.
Whatever they agree will not have majority support in Parliament nor with the electorate. It will be open to criticism, ridicule and expert analysis of the impact.
And that's when campaigns and Labour will finally have a target to aim at. Or perhaps they wait until the EU27 have dissected any proposition and replied with what is actually on the table? Those who want Labour to hurry up lack finesse and fail to see the bigger picture. For time is ticking and the Conservative party has has a fault line for decades which may well divide the party for good.
The options are still either Canada or a Brexit in name only with no end date on a transition period. That is until an FTA is agreed. In other words a Norway plus CU option.
And the interesting part is that this will take us over to the next General election. So in the end the electorate will have control after all. This since they determine the shape of the next Parliament.
And thus one might expect the Government to kick the can down the road rather than opting for the Canada style relationship which reduces GDP growth drastically as well as undermining the peace process in Northern Ireland.
It is and always has been an impossible wicket for May to play. Soon we will see how she actually plays it. The time for rhetoric is nearly over.
Of course, I get that the referendum was a one off and you can't revert back after five years, but it has to be seen through. The politicians owe it to the public, otherwise it's a complete kick in the gonads for democracy, even if it was wrongly provided to us in some peoples opinions.
I was always of the opinion that this is a change for future generations, possibly long after our lifetimes. I don't expect to see major improvements in 5/10/15 years etc., in fact things may well get worse, but history (or peoples interpretation of it) will view the success or not of the decision, probably long after all our time.
Your answer raises lots of interesting points for me. Thanks.
"At a joint news conference in Berlin, Merkel encouraged May to aim for something in between. Asked by a U.K. reporter if she could accept anything that is “bespoke,” the German leader came to May’s defense: "It’s not necessarily the case that a situation that is neither already known nor a classic free trade deal, that this situation is cherry-picking." "In the end, there has to be a fair balance, of variations, on the single market, for example," she said. “We as the 27 will ensure that it’s as close as possible, but that there’s a difference from current membership."
https://bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-16/merkel-says-it-s-not-cherry-picking-to-want-unique-brexit-deal
"However, she appeared to offer an olive branch by suggesting that the U.K.’s hopes of a bespoke deal may be achievable. Asked about bespoke arrangements — as opposed to the starker options of single market membership or a Canada-style trade deal — she said it was “not a given” that such an arrangement “means cherry-picking.” “In the end the outcome needs to be a fair balance that deviates from the single market and is not as close a partnership as we’ve had, but I think one can find that,” she said, according to the official translation of her remarks."
https://politico.eu/article/brexit-trade-merkel-deal-need-not-mean-cherry-picking/
Even if not directly affected, the willingness of international companies to invest in R&D and production in Ireland (most famously Viagra) would be reduced by the impact of (the likely scenario) of being outside the remit of the European Medicines Agency.
Much the same kind of thing is being suggested for the UK car industry, if it is outside the Customs Union and Single Market (where, even if the UK rolls over current EU trade agreements with third parties, the FTAs specify that a certain percentage of the finished product must be made within the jusrisdiction - 70% of a car being made up of EU products is much easier to achieve than 35% from the UK alone).
It is worth pointing out that, even if there were tariffs placed on trade from Ireland to the UK for agricultural produce, the UK market is set up in such a way that makes Ireland a key supplier - unless everyone gives up toasted cheese...
Brexit will have a significant effect upon the retail sector in Ireland (particularly for well-known UK retailers) with the supply chain not being set up for Brexit.