Nigel Lawson is joining the queue of morons attacking the Chancellor for not fiddling the numbers to paint a rosier picture of our economy and the impact Brexit is having.
These Tory fuckwits seem very comfortable with defrauding statisticians. Maybe HMRC should look into their tax returns? Haha oh wait all their friends work there anyway!
'fuckwits' does not even come close to describing their ineptitude.
How detached from reality do you have to be where if you're faced with bad financial figures, your immediate response is that you need to find someone less scrupulous to fraudulently change the numbers.
How detached from reality do you have to be where if you're faced with bad financial figures, your immediate response is that you need to find someone less scrupulous to fraudulently change the numbers.
Unfortunately it happens in business all the time and has done for time immemorial ... you just to hope that our political strata behaves differently ... fat chance these days.
How detached from reality do you have to be where if you're faced with bad financial figures, your immediate response is that you need to find someone less scrupulous to fraudulently change the numbers.
Unfortunately it happens in business all the time and has done for time immemorial ... you just to hope that our political strata behaves differently ... fat chance these days.
The difference is at least in business they have the good grace to pretend they're not doing it. We have senior Tories advocating this course of action.
How detached from reality do you have to be where if you're faced with bad financial figures, your immediate response is that you need to find someone less scrupulous to fraudulently change the numbers.
Unfortunately it happens in business all the time and has done for time immemorial ... you just to hope that our political strata behaves differently ... fat chance these days.
The difference is at least in business they have the good grace to pretend they're not doing it. We have senior Tories advocating this course of action.
The discussion around Hammond has nothing to do with this. It is about him not being on board for the 'no deal' scenario. Anybody who has ever been involved in a business negotiation at any level knows that the people you are negotiating with have to believe you are prepared to walk away if the deal is not good enough. By his words and inaction Hammond is undermining the negotiations, that is why he has to go.
How detached from reality do you have to be where if you're faced with bad financial figures, your immediate response is that you need to find someone less scrupulous to fraudulently change the numbers.
Unfortunately it happens in business all the time and has done for time immemorial ... you just to hope that our political strata behaves differently ... fat chance these days.
The difference is at least in business they have the good grace to pretend they're not doing it. We have senior Tories advocating this course of action.
The discussion around Hammond has nothing to do with this. It is about him not being on board for the 'no deal' scenario. Anybody who has ever been involved in a business negotiation at any level knows that the people you are negotiating with have to believe you are prepared to walk away if the deal is not good enough. By his words and inaction Hammond is undermining the negotiations, that is why he has to go.
Fully agreed, that should always be a negotiating gambit so as not to give away any advantage.
However that is not the way I read Lawson's comments.
It has nothing to do with giving away our advantage. The Treasury works for the people, not the Tories, and if it has the facts proving that a no deal Brexit is going to be a disaster, it has a statutory duty to declare this.
I know as a Brexit voter you don't have a problem believing the lies you are told but that shouldn't affect the duties of those in power.
How detached from reality do you have to be where if you're faced with bad financial figures, your immediate response is that you need to find someone less scrupulous to fraudulently change the numbers.
Unfortunately it happens in business all the time and has done for time immemorial ... you just to hope that our political strata behaves differently ... fat chance these days.
The difference is at least in business they have the good grace to pretend they're not doing it. We have senior Tories advocating this course of action.
The discussion around Hammond has nothing to do with this. It is about him not being on board for the 'no deal' scenario. Anybody who has ever been involved in a business negotiation at any level knows that the people you are negotiating with have to believe you are prepared to walk away if the deal is not good enough. By his words and inaction Hammond is undermining the negotiations, that is why he has to go.
Hammond was only telling 'how it is or would be' facts that are unpalatable to brexiteers. I posted on another thread a month ago about a conversation with a relative who is very, very, close to the top of this government. I would be breaking a confidence to reveal who, but not connected with Philip Hammond. What he told me was surprising about how this government was functioning. Although he says the future is so hard to predict, he thinks we will eventually face another referendum. He said we will probably reach a deal with the E.U. but when I suggested that in my opinion we would not be able to persuade 27 countries to agree a deal he said, "in that case we would be fucked".
I know as a Brexit voter you don't have a problem believing the lies you are told but that shouldn't affect the duties of those in power.
I was very tempted to respond to this sweeping statement and point out that all Brexiteers do not have common collective thoughts, nor do all remainers ... although those in power would love that to be the case.
But I seem to have already, inadvertently, upset some people recently and I do not want another Brexit-related thread to disappear.
So I will refrain from commenting and leave this one alone
Whether you like it or not, those who vote to Leave need to come to terms with the fact the entire campaign was based on false statements and if it was run under normal election rules several of the most prominent campaigners would have been hauled in front of a judge for comments and statements made as part of an official campaign. MP's seats have been re-run for less. Those who orchestrated the campaign openly admitted that had normal election rules applied they would not have won the vote as polling showed false statements such as the 350m figure, the immigration levels and Turkey imminently joining the EU were key factors for the majority of those who voted Leave.
I apologise as I did generalise that all Brexiters were happy to be lied to. I know for one you are not.
This thing about when you're in negotiations over something you have to intimate to the other side you're prepared to walk away without a deal. I've been there in a minor way buying a car. I have sometimes walked away without a deal. This is the thing, no deal whatsoever is becoming increasingly likely, something I have felt happening as an individual negotiating a car deal when it then collapses. The impact of no deal will be serious stuff. I don't think it could happen, but even the concept of no flights the day after is disturbing, there must be loads of other consequences of a dramatic pull of the plug. EHIC card for example, going to visit my brother in Ballycasey, or my in laws in Hamburg. What happens to my EU neighbours in my street, to joint educational and cultural enterprises? Ahem, the land borders with the EU? OK. Go ahead and be prepared to walk away as a negotiating strategy, but be prepared for walking away as a reality too.
Whether you like it or not, those who vote to Leave need to come to terms with the fact the entire campaign was based on false statements and if it was run under normal election rules several of the most prominent campaigners would have been hauled in front of a judge for comments and statements made as part of an official campaign. MP's seats have been re-run for less. Those who orchestrated the campaign openly admitted that had normal election rules applied they would not have won the vote as polling showed false statements such as the 350m figure, the immigration levels and Turkey imminently joining the EU were key factors for the majority of those who voted Leave.
I apologise as I did generalise that all Brexiters were happy to be lied to. I know for one you are not.
Misdirection was a ploy, unfortunately, used by both sides, leave and remain.
I am fully aware that a number of falsehoods were given by 'politicians' on the leave side, not least hiding the fact that the 350m was a gross figure not net.
I certainly do not need to come to terms with this ... I did not make my decision based on their false proclamations ... but this is not the thread to re-visit old ground or we risk closure.
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
How are you measuring patriotism ?
By what i do, the fact that i represent the uk in that and i am proud of my british values. End of story.
And what are “British values” exactly ? Are they better than French or German or Polish ?
I hate the term Christian values” and I think “British values” is just as patronising, pompous and vacuous.
Well I don't and its my view...if that's ok with you of course.......
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Who have you had responses from Halligan or 'O'Brien..
This thing about when you're in negotiations over something you have to intimate to the other side you're prepared to walk away without a deal. I've been there in a minor way buying a car. I have sometimes walked away without a deal. This is the thing, no deal whatsoever is becoming increasingly likely, something I have felt happening as an individual negotiating a car deal when it then collapses. The impact of no deal will be serious stuff. I don't think it could happen, but even the concept of no flights the day after is disturbing, there must be loads of other consequences of a dramatic pull of the plug. EHIC card for example, going to visit my brother in Ballycasey, or my in laws in Hamburg. What happens to my EU neighbours in my street, to joint educational and cultural enterprises? Ahem, the land borders with the EU? OK. Go ahead and be prepared to walk away as a negotiating strategy, but be prepared for walking away as a reality too.
You are correct Seth, there are many unforeseen or not discussed scenario's surrounding walking away or not agreeing a deal. For example. No deal could revive the land border between the North and South of Ireland, something which is a red line for the D.U.P. Their support could cease, bringing down the government.
Currently visitors to the E.U. and not part of the Schegen area agreement are only allowed visa's for visits of up to three months. If we leave without agreement that could apply to us. Three months may be ample time for you to spend with your relatives in Hamburg but there are many thousands of folk who spend the winter in Spain and Portugal who could be affected.
On the subject of books, read opposing sides in 'Making a Success of Brexit and Reforming the EU: The Brexit edition of The Trouble with Europe' by Roger Bootle and 'How To Stop Brexit (And Make Britain Great again)' by Nick Clegg.
Then see if you change your mind - I found a lot of good stuff in both books which made me think - but still believe I voted in the right direction.
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Who have you had responses from Halligan or 'O'Brien..
Halligan, but not re when we punters get to quiz him, as he claims he wants to quiz O'Brien.
I would rather pay to watch the Spanners than buy his book co-written with the "renowned" economistGerard Lyons, who is only renowned in the sense that he disagrees with the vast majority of really renowned economists on the likely effects of Brexit.
But if you would like to summarise their main arguments for us...?
So did you know about Halligan's position on EU citizens in the UK, Chippy? And do you agree with him?
Apparently the negotiations weren't go bad enough. Keep tuned fans, next week Boris annouces he's just shagged Bernier's daughter and Fox takes a crap on Junkers lawn.
Apparently the negotiations weren't go bad enough. Keep tuned fans, next week Boris annouces he's just shagged Bernier's daughter and taken a crap on Junkers lawn.
This thing about when you're in negotiations over something you have to intimate to the other side you're prepared to walk away without a deal. I've been there in a minor way buying a car. I have sometimes walked away without a deal. This is the thing, no deal whatsoever is becoming increasingly likely, something I have felt happening as an individual negotiating a car deal when it then collapses. The impact of no deal will be serious stuff. I don't think it could happen, but even the concept of no flights the day after is disturbing, there must be loads of other consequences of a dramatic pull of the plug. EHIC card for example, going to visit my brother in Ballycasey, or my in laws in Hamburg. What happens to my EU neighbours in my street, to joint educational and cultural enterprises? Ahem, the land borders with the EU? OK. Go ahead and be prepared to walk away as a negotiating strategy, but be prepared for walking away as a reality too.
You are correct Seth, there are many unforeseen or not discussed scenario's surrounding walking away or not agreeing a deal. For example. No deal could revive the land border between the North and South of Ireland, something which is a red line for the D.U.P. Their support could cease, bringing down the government.
Currently visitors to the E.U. and not part of the Schegen area agreement are only allowed visa's for visits of up to three months. If we leave without agreement that could apply to us. Three months may be ample time for you to spend with your relatives in Hamburg but there are many thousands of folk who spend the winter in Spain and Portugal who could be affected.
For what it's worth, I don't actually think a hard border in Ireland is a red line for the DUP - by contrast, any kind of border between Northern Ireland and Britain very definitely would be.
A reasonable percentage of DUP politicians would, I believe, have absolutely no problem with a hard Brexit. Nelson McCausland is not, IMHO, anything other than hard of thinking, and you can rejoice in the delights of his intellect on the Belfast Telegraph website - his name is appended to a regular column and, sadly, there is every indication that he does write it.
Apparently the negotiations weren't go bad enough. Keep tuned fans, next week Boris annouces he's just shagged Bernier's daughter and taken a crap on Junkers lawn.
It is Hammond , the Tory party and the Brexit supporting leadership of the Labour party who are the enemy of the British people.
And he has the audacity to claim the UK is united behind Brexit. What fantasy world do these Brexiteers live in?
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Who have you had responses from Halligan or 'O'Brien..
Halligan, but not re when we punters get to quiz him, as he claims he wants to quiz O'Brien.
I would rather pay to watch the Spanners than buy his book co-written with the "renowned" economistGerard Lyons, who is only renowned in the sense that he disagrees with the vast majority of really renowned economists on the likely effects of Brexit.
But if you would like to summarise their main arguments for us...?
So did you know about Halligan's position on EU citizens in the UK, Chippy? And do you agree with him?
Well I thought I would throw in some renowned economists seeing as I have to also read quotes from experts no-one has heard of every page...I don't know about halligans position on EU citizens and neither did you till you googled it.
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
How are you measuring patriotism ?
By what i do, the fact that i represent the uk in that and i am proud of my british values. End of story.
And what are “British values” exactly ? Are they better than French or German or Polish ?
I hate the term Christian values” and I think “British values” is just as patronising, pompous and vacuous.
Well I don't and its my view...if that's ok with you of course.......
Of course it's alright. It would be even more alright if you had answered what these sacred "British values" are.
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
How are you measuring patriotism ?
By what i do, the fact that i represent the uk in that and i am proud of my british values. End of story.
And what are “British values” exactly ? Are they better than French or German or Polish ?
I hate the term Christian values” and I think “British values” is just as patronising, pompous and vacuous.
Well I don't and its my view...if that's ok with you of course.......
Of course it's alright. It would be even more alright if you had answered what these sacred "British values" are.
Seeing as its not alright I will leave it at that.......
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Who have you had responses from Halligan or 'O'Brien..
Halligan, but not re when we punters get to quiz him, as he claims he wants to quiz O'Brien.
I would rather pay to watch the Spanners than buy his book co-written with the "renowned" economistGerard Lyons, who is only renowned in the sense that he disagrees with the vast majority of really renowned economists on the likely effects of Brexit.
But if you would like to summarise their main arguments for us...?
So did you know about Halligan's position on EU citizens in the UK, Chippy? And do you agree with him?
Well I thought I would throw in some renowned economists seeing as I have to also read quotes from experts no-one has heard of every page...I don't know about halligans position on EU citizens and neither did you till you googled it.
Why do you argue in such an aggressive way? I know about his position on EU citizens because he tells people. That is his job. He wants people to know. I follow him on Twitter Aaaaargh.
So, I am curious, does he refer to this in his book? Clean Brexit must obviously resolve the issue of rights of EU citizens, and I seem to recall he said this first time soon after the referendum.
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Who have you had responses from Halligan or 'O'Brien..
Halligan, but not re when we punters get to quiz him, as he claims he wants to quiz O'Brien.
I would rather pay to watch the Spanners than buy his book co-written with the "renowned" economistGerard Lyons, who is only renowned in the sense that he disagrees with the vast majority of really renowned economists on the likely effects of Brexit.
But if you would like to summarise their main arguments for us...?
So did you know about Halligan's position on EU citizens in the UK, Chippy? And do you agree with him?
Well I thought I would throw in some renowned economists seeing as I have to also read quotes from experts no-one has heard of every page...I don't know about halligans position on EU citizens and neither did you till you googled it.
Why do you argue in such an aggressive way? I know about his position on EU citizens because he tells people. That is his job. He wants people to know. I follow him on Twitter Aaaaargh.
So, I am curious, does he refer to this in his book? Clean Brexit must obviously resolve the issue of rights of EU citizens, and I seem to recall he said this first time soon after the referendum.
I don't argue in an aggressive way I return the favour in the tone that I think it has been sent to me.....
Credit where it's due, JOB is excellent at nailing the bastards who exploit this country. If he winds up thick right-wingers in the orocess, well that's just icing.
Of course given Redwood is very much a right-wing member of the Establishment, the idea that you can't simply change the numbers you dislike for personal gain is probably an alien concept to him.
I used to listen to his show a lot but realised he only gets his researchers to allow lame ducks on who he can bully. Fed up with him insulting brexiters and like some on here blaming a rainy day on brexit. He got his job through his family connections and find him the least patriortic of all the lbc presenters. All the others are far more fair and give a better balanced view.
I emailed him last week and asked him why he doesn't get gerald lyons, liam halligan or moggy on his show. Naturally i am still waiting for a response.
Liam Halligan, eh? When he bigged up on Twitter that O'Brien should invite him on, I asked him when we punters get a chance to grill him. Especially when he's pushing a book on Brexit. Naturally I am still waiting for a response.
And I have had responses from him in the past. The first time when he made a shameful attack on Bill Browder, the guy who is standing up to Putin, live on R4.
He likes to present himself as a stroppy street-fighter who understands economics but its all mouth. I would quite fancy my chances taking him on, more than against some of the better Brexiteers on here.
Funny thing is, he sometimes takes positions which pleasantly surprise me. He keeps saying that May should have made the gesture right at the start that EU citizens would be able to stay, with rights unchanged. Did you know he says that, Chippy?
Who have you had responses from Halligan or 'O'Brien..
Halligan, but not re when we punters get to quiz him, as he claims he wants to quiz O'Brien.
I would rather pay to watch the Spanners than buy his book co-written with the "renowned" economistGerard Lyons, who is only renowned in the sense that he disagrees with the vast majority of really renowned economists on the likely effects of Brexit.
But if you would like to summarise their main arguments for us...?
So did you know about Halligan's position on EU citizens in the UK, Chippy? And do you agree with him?
Well I thought I would throw in some renowned economists seeing as I have to also read quotes from experts no-one has heard of every page...I don't know about halligans position on EU citizens and neither did you till you googled it.
Why do you argue in such an aggressive way? I know about his position on EU citizens because he tells people. That is his job. He wants people to know. I follow him on Twitter Aaaaargh.
So, I am curious, does he refer to this in his book? Clean Brexit must obviously resolve the issue of rights of EU citizens, and I seem to recall he said this first time soon after the referendum.
I don't argue in an aggressive way I return the favour in the tone that I think it has been sent to me.....
Well, up to you. I think you often start by attacking people who weren't "talking" to you in the first place, so as a result you may find people are not as polite to you. My issue for discussion here is not you, but Liam Halligan. I don't think he is as smart as he thinks he is, and he obviously thinks he is very smart.
As an example, this is what I would ask him if he was a radio phone-in host like O'Brien.
so, as you know Liam, EU citizens currently in the UK enjoy full recourse to the ECJ. If May had done what you propose (and I agree, she should have done) those citizens would remain under the ECJ jurisdiction. Is that what you intended, Liam? Because if she said they will no longer have ECJ recourse, then the offer would not have had the desired positive effect on the other side in the negotiations. Or are you Ok that they stay under the ECJ, Liam? Perhaps like me you agree that the ECJ really is not that big a deal for the vast majority of citizens be they born in Woking or Warsaw, because the ECJ has usually agreed with UK courts."
But I can't ask him, because he does not present himself in direct live contact with the ordinary punter, unlike James O'Brien. Yet on Twitter he makes out that O'Brien is the coward.
It's a pity because I like about 20% of Liam Halligan's outputs, whereas Redwood....
Can everybody take a breath? Text is literally the worst format to argue in as you can assume the tone of the message. The most reasonable sentence can sound completely different if you assume aggression or sarcasm.
Please try and read these messages as dispassionately as possible and react to the word written not the supposed tone, whether implied or imagined.
Comments
Anybody who has ever been involved in a business negotiation at any level knows that the people you are negotiating with have to believe you are prepared to walk away if the deal is not good enough.
By his words and inaction Hammond is undermining the negotiations, that is why he has to go.
However that is not the way I read Lawson's comments.
I know as a Brexit voter you don't have a problem believing the lies you are told but that shouldn't affect the duties of those in power.
I posted on another thread a month ago about a conversation with a relative who is very, very, close to the top of this government.
I would be breaking a confidence to reveal who, but not connected with Philip Hammond.
What he told me was surprising about how this government was functioning.
Although he says the future is so hard to predict, he thinks we will eventually face another referendum.
He said we will probably reach a deal with the E.U. but when I suggested that in my opinion we would not be able to persuade 27 countries to agree a deal he said, "in that case we would be fucked".
But I seem to have already, inadvertently, upset some people recently and I do not want another Brexit-related thread to disappear.
So I will refrain from commenting and leave this one alone
I apologise as I did generalise that all Brexiters were happy to be lied to. I know for one you are not.
I've been there in a minor way buying a car.
I have sometimes walked away without a deal.
This is the thing, no deal whatsoever is becoming increasingly likely, something I have felt happening as an individual negotiating a car deal when it then collapses.
The impact of no deal will be serious stuff. I don't think it could happen, but even the concept of no flights the day after is disturbing, there must be loads of other consequences of a dramatic pull of the plug. EHIC card for example, going to visit my brother in Ballycasey, or my in laws in Hamburg. What happens to my EU neighbours in my street, to joint educational and cultural enterprises? Ahem, the land borders with the EU?
OK. Go ahead and be prepared to walk away as a negotiating strategy, but be prepared for walking away as a reality too.
I am fully aware that a number of falsehoods were given by 'politicians' on the leave side, not least hiding the fact that the 350m was a gross figure not net.
I certainly do not need to come to terms with this ... I did not make my decision based on their false proclamations ... but this is not the thread to re-visit old ground or we risk closure.
For example.
No deal could revive the land border between the North and South of Ireland, something which is a red line for the D.U.P.
Their support could cease, bringing down the government.
Currently visitors to the E.U. and not part of the Schegen area agreement are only allowed visa's for visits of up to three months.
If we leave without agreement that could apply to us.
Three months may be ample time for you to spend with your relatives in Hamburg but there are many thousands of folk who spend the winter in Spain and Portugal who could be affected.
Then see if you change your mind - I found a lot of good stuff in both books which made me think - but still believe I voted in the right direction.
I would rather pay to watch the Spanners than buy his book co-written with the "renowned" economistGerard Lyons, who is only renowned in the sense that he disagrees with the vast majority of really renowned economists on the likely effects of Brexit.
But if you would like to summarise their main arguments for us...?
So did you know about Halligan's position on EU citizens in the UK, Chippy? And do you agree with him?
https://google.co.uk/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/10/13/philip-hammond-fights-back-accusations-sabotaging-brexit/amp/
Apparently the negotiations weren't go bad enough. Keep tuned fans, next week Boris annouces he's just shagged Bernier's daughter and Fox takes a crap on Junkers lawn.
A reasonable percentage of DUP politicians would, I believe, have absolutely no problem with a hard Brexit. Nelson McCausland is not, IMHO, anything other than hard of thinking, and you can rejoice in the delights of his intellect on the Belfast Telegraph website - his name is appended to a regular column and, sadly, there is every indication that he does write it.
And he has the audacity to claim the UK is united behind Brexit. What fantasy world do these Brexiteers live in?
So, I am curious, does he refer to this in his book? Clean Brexit must obviously resolve the issue of rights of EU citizens, and I seem to recall he said this first time soon after the referendum.
As an example, this is what I would ask him if he was a radio phone-in host like O'Brien.
"Liam, you have said this several times
so, as you know Liam, EU citizens currently in the UK enjoy full recourse to the ECJ. If May had done what you propose (and I agree, she should have done) those citizens would remain under the ECJ jurisdiction. Is that what you intended, Liam? Because if she said they will no longer have ECJ recourse, then the offer would not have had the desired positive effect on the other side in the negotiations. Or are you Ok that they stay under the ECJ, Liam? Perhaps like me you agree that the ECJ really is not that big a deal for the vast majority of citizens be they born in Woking or Warsaw, because the ECJ has usually agreed with UK courts."
But I can't ask him, because he does not present himself in direct live contact with the ordinary punter, unlike James O'Brien. Yet on Twitter he makes out that O'Brien is the coward.
It's a pity because I like about 20% of Liam Halligan's outputs, whereas Redwood....
Please try and read these messages as dispassionately as possible and react to the word written not the supposed tone, whether implied or imagined.