Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
To answer that, we have to start with some clarity about what her manifesto actually is. Perhaps you, as a sympathizer, can help us:
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
I weren't bothered either way mate, as it ain't my Country which is also why I haven't commented on this thread either way. So it would be great if you could let me know why you think I'm a "sympathizer"? (sympathizer pmsl)
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
To answer that, we have to start with some clarity about what her manifesto actually is. Perhaps you, as a sympathizer, can help us:
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
I weren't bothered either way mate, as it ain't my Country which is also why I haven't commented on this thread either way. So it would be great if you could let me know why you think I'm a "sympathizer"? (sympathizer pmsl)
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.
Sure. I labelled you as such because over time your posts have indicated that you favour the break up of the EU (as le Pen does), the re-establishment of hard borders across Europe, (as le Pen does), and and the effective halting of immigration flows into the UK and presumably into France too (as le Pen does). Whereas Macron favours the opposite in all those cases.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
Just out of interest, what was it in Le Pen's manifesto that everyone on here disagreed with so much?
And what is it that makes Macron the best person to run France?
To answer that, we have to start with some clarity about what her manifesto actually is. Perhaps you, as a sympathizer, can help us:
1. What is her policy on France and the Euro?
2. Does she actually want Frexit or not?
I am not clear about either. Looking forward to your guidance...
I weren't bothered either way mate, as it ain't my Country which is also why I haven't commented on this thread either way. So it would be great if you could let me know why you think I'm a "sympathizer"? (sympathizer pmsl)
It interests me that, when over 35 million French people either couldn't make their minds up, or couldn't be bothered, how people on here have such a clear opinion.
It's simply a question mate, not looking for you, or any of your back-up to attack me, if that's okay.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
Only of those that voted
Why does that matter.
Because Henners said that 66% of people who live here voted for Macron, and they never, it was 66% of the people who bothered to vote.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
Only of those that voted
Why does that matter.
Because Henners said that 66% of people who live here voted for Macron, and they never, it was 66% of the people who bothered to vote.
Actually I didn't. I said "the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33%" which they did.
I live here and voted Mélenchon in the first round. For the second round I was one of the 39% who abstained or spoilt the ballot paper. Whilst the racist policies of Le Pen (much in evidence in the few towns where the FN hold power) would have been a disaster, the neo-liberal, pro-Europe, pro-business policies of Macron will be even worse. There is no humanity in being racist; but neither is there in tearing up social contracts and the 'Code de Travail' that workers have fought for over hundreds of years, and ultimately putting more people below the poverty line - of which there are 4/5 million.
In the first round the majority voted for parties that wanted either to leave the EU or severely curb it's powers. We've ended up with pro-Europe, pro-multinational Macron, and it will be a disaster; even more so than the five years of Hollande. Mcron will be Merkel's poodle... as Le Pen said, a woman will win the election: her or Merkel.
So, last night, I was very non-plussed by the result (it was widely predicted anyway)... a very sad day for France.
Macron is already talking about writing his wife into the constitution as first lady (so Fillon's fictive employment of his family continues in a different vain); and he's already taken an oligarchical stance. This is the man that ate his way through nearly 150,000 euros a month at Bercy while he was (the unelected) minister of the economy.
In the end, he got 65% of votes from 60% of the electorate - nobody actually wanted him, and the majority of his votes came from people not wanting Le Pen.
He's very much the president nobody wanted. If the opportunist Bayrou is ppointed to his government then the country really is f***ed
Interesting post and great to share your real life experiences, and say how it is. You will get shot down by people who dont live there though.
To be fair the people who DO live there voted 66% to 33% for the Macron
I'm waiting for @Red_in_SE8 to tell us that only 49% voted Macron
Really? You're down with having headscarves and Yarmulkes banned? Because western Europe has done similar things before, you know...
I agree with freedom of religious expression broadly but the UK could learn a lot from France's clear separation of church and state especially in education.
The UK is a relatively secular country yet millions of non-believers have to pretend to be otherwise to secure places for their kids in the best schools.
I'm sorry I have no experience with a lack of church and state separation .
I certainly agree. I mean we have legal separation of church and state and at least a couple times a week I have to explain to Oregonians that the schools aren't teaching "atheistic social Marxism" like how to be gay and have gay sex and how to hate God (no really, that's what people think).
In courts, the US, I feel, largely gets these things right, if not in practice. But there I'd something very scary about banning simple religious accessories. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did not hear her talking about crosses around people's necks.
I'm not questioning the results, or how they're counted etc.. I just asked a pretty reasonably question.
And I get accused of being touchy
I tried to answer it pal. But in true CL style it's descended into a sh*t show. Wish I hadn't bothered now.
Interestingly some of the things I've read that posters written since my comment (writing a First Lady into the constitution, a tax on employing foreigners and a referendum on any issue proposed by half a million citizens or more) are things that I don't agree with.
However one has to accept that they won't always align themselves with everything a single politician believes in. Given the two choices I would have agreed with the 66% of French voters, or if you'd rather 1/3 of the French population in electing Macron.
I'm not questioning the results, or how they're counted etc.. I just asked a pretty reasonably question.
And I get accused of being touchy
I tried to answer it pal. But in true CL style it's descended into a sh*t show. Wish I hadn't bothered now.
Interestingly some of the things I've read that posters written since my comment (writing a First Lady into the constitution, a tax on employing foreigners and a referendum on any issue proposed by half a million citizens or more) are things that I don't agree with.
However one has to accept that they won't always align themselves with everything a single politician believes in. Given the two choices I would have agreed with the 66% of French voters, or if you'd rather 1/3 of the French population in electing Macron.
I'm not questioning the results, or how they're counted etc.. I just asked a pretty reasonably question.
And I get accused of being touchy
I tried to answer it pal. But in true CL style it's descended into a sh*t show. Wish I hadn't bothered now.
Interestingly some of the things I've read that posters written since my comment (writing a First Lady into the constitution, a tax on employing foreigners and a referendum on any issue proposed by half a million citizens or more) are things that I don't agree with.
However one has to accept that they won't always align themselves with everything a single politician believes in. Given the two choices I would have agreed with the 66% of French voters, or if you'd rather 1/3 of the French population in electing Macron.
Just to clarify, those two thing are Le Pen manifesto commitments, not Macron's. I think you got them from my post, which perhaps didn't make clear that I was listing what I don't like about Le Pen's manifesto (in addition to those you yourself listed).
I'm not questioning the results, or how they're counted etc.. I just asked a pretty reasonably question.
And I get accused of being touchy
I tried to answer it pal. But in true CL style it's descended into a sh*t show. Wish I hadn't bothered now.
Interestingly some of the things I've read that posters written since my comment (writing a First Lady into the constitution, a tax on employing foreigners and a referendum on any issue proposed by half a million citizens or more) are things that I don't agree with.
However one has to accept that they won't always align themselves with everything a single politician believes in. Given the two choices I would have agreed with the 66% of French voters, or if you'd rather 1/3 of the French population in electing Macron.
Just to clarify, those two thing are Le Pen manifesto commitments, not Macron's. I think you got them from my post, which perhaps didn't make clear that I was listing what I don't like about Le Pen's manifesto (in addition to those you yourself listed).
No wonder I was confused, thanks for the clarification.
The first meeting between President Macron and President Trump will be interesting. For Trump, he will be able to ask what it's like to win the popular vote in a Presidential Election. And for Macron, he'll be the first French President who speaks better English than his American counterpart.
Just seen him on the news. Didn't realise he was a short arse like Hollande. What is it with the Frogs and chippy lil fellas? Only De Gaulle was a strapping six footer...
Just seen him on the news. Didn't realise he was a short arse like Hollande. What is it with the Frogs and chippy lil fellas? Only De Gaulle was a strapping six footer...
Comments
Was I right or wrong?
And I get accused of being touchy
I certainly agree. I mean we have legal separation of church and state and at least a couple times a week I have to explain to Oregonians that the schools aren't teaching "atheistic social Marxism" like how to be gay and have gay sex and how to hate God (no really, that's what people think).
In courts, the US, I feel, largely gets these things right, if not in practice. But there I'd something very scary about banning simple religious accessories. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I did not hear her talking about crosses around people's necks.
Interestingly some of the things I've read that posters written since my comment (writing a First Lady into the constitution, a tax on employing foreigners and a referendum on any issue proposed by half a million citizens or more) are things that I don't agree with.
However one has to accept that they won't always align themselves with everything a single politician believes in. Given the two choices I would have agreed with the 66% of French voters, or if you'd rather 1/3 of the French population in electing Macron.
Just to clarify, those two thing are Le Pen manifesto commitments, not Macron's. I think you got them from my post, which perhaps didn't make clear that I was listing what I don't like about Le Pen's manifesto (in addition to those you yourself listed).
Looks like the same argument to me, with sides reversed.
Beyond parody.
https://google.co.uk/amp/m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_591062c5e4b0104c73505ee6/amp